To support Third Party or not to support.....that is the question

[jvmacross]

Not to open up a can of worms.......but, now that we are on the eve of a potential Macross Third Party age......what is or will be Macross World's official position on Third Party Macross merchandise?

There are pro's and con's to both sides of either supporting and not supporting....

I feel that it is clearly "stealing IP", but I do not think that the big two are willing to produce certain products that several collectors, myself included, are interested in being produced (MII valks, enemy mecha, accessories and add-ons?).......I think that the issue may come down to the cost of licensing v. the potential profit......remove the licensing component...and well.....it definitely lowers the overall cost to bring the product into production....it is what it is....and I am sure that is a reason why we have not seen various Macross mecha come to light....

So what do you guys think?

Does the good outweigh the bad for the individual collector?

[Tober]

It will be a lot more interesting when those 1/60 Regults and YF-19 Frontier Super parts start showing up. KO or otherwise.

[jvmacross]

Exactly....

Based on the pics of the SD SDF-1...it looks really high quality....but we won't know for sure until we have it on-hand....but still....even if it's quality was at best...Yamato's worst....at 100 bucks...it would be hard to complain (well, it's MW...so maybe not )...

And with that said....a Third party 1/60 Regult, guessing on the price of the soon available 9" SD SDF-1 with base, transformable, fully painted.....would definitely be nowhere near the price of the HDP Regult's MSRP.....or any recent Yamato or Arcadia toy offering...indeed, things could get interesting....

I am hoping that the coming of Third Party to Macross will serve to "plug the holes" in our collections.....and not just blatantly "redo" products that already exist or can be easily acquired (1/60 Regult not being one of them!).....

[David Hingtgen]

The molding/tolerances/design needed for a 1/60 valk are beyond most (I said most, not all) of the third-party-transforming-figure companies. An SD SDF-1 is an order of magnitude simpler than a VF-9 or VF-3000 etc. I think it'll be a while before we see a 3P transforming valk, if ever.

Big issue---The vast majority of 3P companies do "their own spin" on characters/mecha, They are not exact clones of an established look. But that's probably not gonna fly for valkyrie fans. Would you buy a VF-2SS-*esque* figure? That was clearly inspired by it, but has noticeable changes?

[Silverstreak]

The molding/tolerances/design needed for a 1/60 valk are beyond most (I said most, not all) of the third-party-transforming-figure companies.

Sometimes it seems beyond Bandai too.

As as avid 3rd Party TF collector, I hope that _IF_ it takes off in Macross, they do what FansToys does and only tackle figures that we are unlikely to get otherwise. I don't want to see Arcadia and to a lesser extent, Bandai, competing with 3rd Parties.

[David Hingtgen]

Bandai only does "current" designs, so unless they sponsor a new "prequel" series set in 2030 with the VF-9 as the star, they're not gonna do it. The VF-3000, VF-5000, VF-9, VF-14, etc are never going to come from Bandai.

And hey, if a third party company did their own VF-4----they'd have no qualms about doing the FB2012 scheme on it. I still want a VF-4 that looks like this:

Whoever makes it, gets my money.

Though, "official logos" are still one place no third-party company does (that's just asking for it, and there'd be NO possible claim that they weren't trying to infringe), so the UN Spacy kites etc would have to be stickers. Could probably just print red circles though, then only the actual white part would need to be a sticker.

[Sandman]

Harmony Gold will never tolerate it like Hasbro/Takara does.

[jvmacross]

As as avid 3rd Party TF collector, I hope that _IF_ it takes off in Macross, they do what FansToys does and only tackle figures that we are unlikely to get otherwise. I don't want to see Arcadia and to a lesser extent, Bandai, competing with 3rd Parties.

Agreed...I think Arcadia would definitely be the hardest hit by "competing" 3P releases as Arcadia can apparently only afford licensing the non-current valks.........however, if they had no intent on releasing, for example a VF-2SS, would it really matter financially to them...or would the harm be just to BW?

[David Hingtgen]

Harmony Gold will never tolerate it like Hasbro/Takara does.

Wait wait, you consider *HG* to be the issue? Remember, *BMW* lost when trying to sue in China for copied vehicle designs. I think Schwinn lost a case for a bike design, when the Chinese party used Schwinn's own patent for the design as evidence!

Fact is, there is simply no recourse/rights in China. They make what they want.

[jvmacross]

Harmony Gold will never tolerate it like Hasbro/Takara does.

Read the box HG! It's Makuros!

[CoreyD]

Even if the perfect transformation fighters are potentially unfeasible for a 3rd party manufacturer, I would hope that, as others have said, it would at least be an opportunity to fill other gaps in the collection --

Britai figure?

Battle Pod?

Zentradi Battle Suit from Macross Plus?

DESTROID SPARTAN?!

The opportunities are there and I hope that something interesting happens as we watch this unfold.

[David Hingtgen]

Flightsuit Grace statue...

[TheLoneWolf]

I could support an unlicensed third-party toy, but only if it's reasonable to conlude that the lawful rights holder(s) has no intention of exploiting that particular work in the forseeable future. A perfect example of this would be the VF-2SS from Macross II, which Yamato/Arcadia has repeatedly shot down.

[Valkyrie2008]

I would support 3rd parties if they produce any product that Arcadia, Bandai, etc., would not produce and any product that Bandai produce in limited quantity, like when the item is open for a split second on the preorder window that I could never get my trigger finger on.

[Arthurius]

I agree with David here,

Keep it to simple stuff first, then work yourself slowly up!!!! Like simple transformation, or none transforming at all!!! The SDF-1 is a good example, and so will be the Regult, and similar, maybe zentradi / meltran, frontier / etc... Imagine the possibilities!!! I am not sure if the VF-2SS, which is what we really all want, will be too difficult for them or not, but if they can start with easy, and make it good quality / paint / engineering (tabs / locks / ratchet / etc..), that will be best, and make it more feasible for us to get other stuff made that wouldn't be otherwise.

An example is from the TF world, the 3rd party Quakewave. It was their first attempt, and is considered one of the, if not THE, best 3rd party tfs ever made.

[Gakken85]

If it's a quality product. It deserves support. Being an American who's been pushed around by Harmony Gold, I kind of want a 3rd Party to spit in their eye a bit.

It's high time.

I respect Arcadia the most. They do a high quality product that is a labor of love, but I don't think any 3P purchases I make will deflect from their sparse release schedule at this point.

Bandai is huge, and I'm not that loyal to them to be honest.

We all mostly buy multiples here, so buying a 3P that's really cool... Plus there are so many odd ball releases that Arcadia may never get to like the Spartan.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Gakken85

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

i'm not... Macross business is hard enough as it is for companies with yamato going under. my money will only support first party stuff.

(like i don't change my mind to my convenience... but so far that's how i feel)

Edited August 26, 2014 by davidwhangchoi

[Valkyrie Hunter D]

Yes, I will support them if they make products like that SD SDF-1: items that would probably never make it past concept sketches on Arcadia's or Bandai's desks due to limited resources or it being a risky venture. I may have to rely on 3rd party company in the future to finish out the line of 1/60 Destroids...

However, in the VERY slim chance that a 3rd party company out there makes a beautiful valk that could outmatch the likes of Bandai or Arcadia, I would probably buy one.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Valkyrie Hunter D

[anime52k8]

Flightsuit Grace statue...

why do we need unlicensed third party for this? The 4~5 makers who clearly already have Macross licenses just need to get off their asses and make something besides Sheryl figures...

Just make it happen already Megahouse, you rat bastards.

[jvmacross]

why do we need unlicensed third party for this? The 4~5 makers who clearly already have Macross licenses just need to get off their asses and make something besides Sheryl figures...

Just make it happen already Megahouse, you rat bastards.

But if Master Made does one....it'll be XXX!

[eriku]

The more the merrier. And why stop at Macross? How about a really kick ass Legioss?

Pretty please?

[Kanedas Bike]

No real opinion at the moment, I'm buying that mini-SDF-1 so in effect I've already tossed my hat in the ring, but I would not buy anything that obviously hurts Arcadia or Bandai sales.

Different reasons for both companies;

Bandai in that besides the availability of their products I like what they've done with Frontier Renewals and if there were a significant dent in their bottom line they may just drop their interest in Macross. They could absorb any losses from sales and just opt to divert their resources to other product lines.

Arcadia because I think they'd be more vulnerable from a sales perspective if 3rd parties starting producing items that compete directly with, or would divert money that would have been spent on their official product to something that fans have been asking for that Arcadia couldn't take the risk producing. Like if someone had limited disposable income and could only choose between a VF-2SS vs. VF-0D

My .02.

-b.

[evilcat005]

I guess for starter we can look at the TF world 3rd party. Has/Tak have refuse to bring to the market of high quality TF (with exception of MP), and TF characters that fans want. 3rd party saw the market and took it, and i think it is a great choice. Just look at the combiners they are making now, no way Has/Tak is every going to try to make those any time soon. Why you ask? Profit! They rather pump out 100k units of crap that make them tones of money from children then selling 10k units of high quality goods at triple profit to adult collector.

3rd party will always exist, its just down to the good 3rd party and the really crappy one. As for KO, i'm not big fan of it. Out right copy something that already exist in the market is just down right hurting the collector market, and shameful.

There are always a phase for these company.

Just to add, 3rd party company most time do everything they can to avoid product conflict with official product. Reason being they know they will lose out to official product. 3rd party can't take hit. Because they produce so little their unit cost is very high. that is why they avoid it at all cost, sometime even scratch their own release just to avoid further lost. Of course there are release crashes, but that is because they have complete their development and they can't turn back any more.

Edited August 26, 2014 by evilcat005

[Gakken85]

Just to add, 3rd party company most time do everything they can to avoid product conflict with official product. Reason being they know they will lose out to official product. 3rd party can't take hit. Because they produce so little their unit cost is very high. that is why they avoid it at all cost, sometime even scratch their own release just to avoid further lost. Of course there are release crashes, but that is because they have complete their development and they can't turn back any more.

Great way to look at it.

Bandai obviously tries to scalp money from Arcadia. Putting the 29 out around the same time as the 19. Putting out the D wing 30 around the time that the VD-0D is slated.

I doubt a Third party would ever do that.

And yes, bring on the legioss

[jenius]

I voted that I'm down for anything the legit rights-holders wouldn't touch by I can also see where that's playing in a gray area sandbox with very little real definition. Yamato proved they were pretty much willing to do anything so it's tough to say "they'd never do that, I'll support 3P!" I think the SD SDF-1 is a slam dunk since Bandai is the only one that has ever considered doing anything SD and they only gave us one SD VF-25F and then abandoned that line.

[David Hingtgen]

why do we need unlicensed third party for this? The 4~5 makers who clearly already have Macross licenses just need to get off their asses and make something besides Sheryl figures...

That's exactly why we need it. Because they're never going to do anything but Sheryl/Ranka/Klan. They've had more than enough time---if it was gonna happen, it'd have happened by now. Movies have come and gone, and "Movie-style" is all they're making now. And there's no pilot-Grace in the movies.

Same thing for valks. VF-9 is NEVER going to come from Bandai/Arcadia. It's WAY down the list. But I'd buy it in an instant.

[anime52k8]

But if Master Made does one....it'll be XXX!

good point, GET ON THIS THIRD PARTY!!!

[skullmilitia]

Sorry but HG has zero control over chinese companies. Plus HG can't threaten toy stores that don't buy from them directly.

If they sent a C&D to someone, they could just ignore it. It would take an incredible amount of money and work for HG to try and prove

infringement. They' probably go Bankrupt before they actually got anywhere in the courts.

This maybe the first time we can all give HG the big middle finger of **** You!

That being said, I applaud anyone taking advantage of a market. capitalism at it's best.

[anime52k8]

Big issue---The vast majority of 3P companies do "their own spin" on characters/mecha, They are not exact clones of an established look. But that's probably not gonna fly for valkyrie fans. Would you buy a VF-2SS-*esque* figure? That was clearly inspired by it, but has noticeable changes?

What about airplane to robot transforming toys that aren't based on any particular existing mech in macross, but are in the same vain? like if someone went and took the old obscure advanced Valkyrie and Air cavalry chronicles stuff SK did years ago, and make some fully transforming toys loosely based on some of those designs.

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/macross/aircavalry/seiran-99kou.htm

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/macross/aircavalry/af-49.htm

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/macross/advvalk/vf-x-7.htm

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/macross/aircavalry/lv-7.htm

[chyll2]

ill buy 3P as long as it is not straight KO/BL.

[Rabidweezil]

Sorry but HG has zero control over chinese companies. Plus HG can't threaten toy stores that don't buy from them directly.

If they sent a C&D to someone, they could just ignore it. It would take an incredible amount of money and work for HG to try and prove

infringement. They' probably go Bankrupt before they actually got anywhere in the courts.

This maybe the first time we can all give HG the big middle finger of **** You!

That being said, I applaud anyone taking advantage of a market. capitalism at it's best.

Not sure if you were here way back when a member here got a C&D from HG. I think his name was Spideyjerusalem or something along those lines. He was just a small time seller offering some import Macross products (I believe Yamato's) out of his house. HG came down on him and demanded he stopped selling and also to surrender all of his stock. He got a lawyer and fought them. The primary defense was to see the license that HG claimed gave them the right to Macross. Of course they refused to cough it up. People from here even donated to his cause for lawyer fees. I don't remember how it ended, but I do recall he had racked up quite a legal bill in the battle.

It boils down to who has the most money to waste on time and legal fees. Considering how poorly HG has handled the license (they actually tried to C&D Hasbro a year or so ago for the Jetfire/Skytriker vehicle!). I'd say they win in that area.

[jvmacross]

Should we kickstart the Macross 3P distributor legal defense fund kickstarter now?

[ErikElvis]

I wouldn't mind some Macross 3P stuff but to be honest I don't see it taking off or ever making a dent in the industry. Its just one 3d party item.

[valhary]

I want a vf 2ss 1/60 if arcadia or bandai not want made why not get it from another source

[jvmacross]

I wouldn't mind some Macross 3P stuff but to be honest I don't see it taking off or ever making a dent in the industry. Its just one 3d party item.

No better motivator for continued Macross 3P than cold hard cash.....