Tightening joints (Case study, the YF-19 Arcadia)

[Mr March]

Alright, so I've got a bit of a question for all those old-timer toy collectors. I've been working on tightening one of the ankle joints on my YF-19 Arcadia (the left ankle is good, but the right is rather loose). I've got some temporary solutions that are working, but I'd like a more semi-permanent one. One of my first Macross toy purchases of the Yamato era was the Version 1.0 1/60 scale VF-1 Valkyrie, which I remember had this small, square fabric shim inside the ball joints that provided tension and friction to give the joint stiffness. It was a great long term solution; it could even be repaired should it ever wear out. Anyway, I don't recall what kind of material Yamato used for it's fabric ball joint shim. I remember it looked rather tape-like, but obviously wasn't any kind of adhesive material. So I put it to the good folks of the MW toy collecting forum, asking if any of you know what that material was. I'd like to obtain some of it for an experiement with my YF-19 Arcadia.

[Scream Man]

I got some good techniques for tightening a few joints, but the ankles are a tough one. on the 19 you may be able to get the foot off and coat the joint, using nail polish or super glue.

[ChaoticYeti]

I fixed the ankles on my VF-19s by putting a few drops of future polish in the ball joint over a few days. Future is self leveling. Have patience. You can always add another drop.

Edited August 13, 2014 by ChaoticYeti

[Mr March]

I'm not sure what the VF-19F/S series is like, but the YF-19 ankles cannot be taken apart in any way of which I'm aware without destroying the entire joint housing. It's easy enough to remove all the screws and disassemble the fore-foot and heel from the housing. Unfortuantely, the mold for the primary ball joint underneath is made of two left/right pieces held together with two parallel cylindrical pins (and two removable screws). I know of no way to remove the pins safely so the ball joint housing can be disassembled. And the pins have to be removed before the heel screw can be removed. No way to do that...not without totally destroying the whole thing.

What I have been doing is using the Pledge Floor Care (with Future, formely known as Future Floor Polish; exact same formula), a few drops at a time. I then work the joint a little to spread the polish around and it will self-level the rest. This technique has improved tension, but it's not ideal and it appears to dry and flake over time. I'm still applying drops (one session, then let dry for 24 hours) in the hopes that I simply need to build more of a coat for this to become effective. But it's been 5 days now (and 5 coats) and I'm worried this is never going to create a layer that will produce the effect that everyone said was guaranteed to work. I have a feeling none of the owners ever tried this "solution" on an Arcadia product, lol.

For now I'll keep at it, but I wanted to explore alternatives, possibly a fabric shim. Hence, this thread.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Mr March

[David Hingtgen]

Yup, about the only NON-DESTRUCTIVE method that's possible on the Arcadia YF-19, is to disassemble as much as you can to expose the ball-joint as much as possible, then pour in future or nail polish(can't remember which I used), let dry, and repeat.

[Mommar]

Anime5K19(whatever) described actually taking the entire thing apart but it's apparently a harrowing experience getting it all back together again.

[anime52k8]

sorry, but I forgot to take pictures when I took mine apart the first time and frankly, I don't intend to ever take it fully apart again (It's that harrowing an experience).

anyways, what I did (and I will absolutely not be held responsible for any of horrible breakages if you try this) was start by pulling the entire foot assembly out of the leg. it turns out that if you pull strait down on the foot as if you where extending the ankle hard enough, you can jump the tracks and stops that hold it in, and you get this thing here:

20140406_114003.jpg

now, to get the ball joint itself apart you have to loosen the two silver screws visible in the first picture. notice that the one on the heel side is obscured by the heel itself, well the heel does physically block that screw which makes taking this whole thing apart really difficult.

In addition to the screws you can see, there are two metal spring pins that you can't see that also hold the two halves of the ankles together and connect the plastic feet parts to the metal ankle parts. the following pictures are from the VF-19S, but they're very similar to the YF-19 (unfortunately)

this is the pin, it is evil:

IMG_1225.JPG

it goes through loops on the inside of the soles of the feet, like so:

IMG_1222.JPG

and through the further down holes on the metal ankle part:

IMG_1220.JPG

anyways, the one good thing about the YF-19 over the VF-19 is that, in order to get the feet apart to get at said evil pin, you don't have to break the foot because there's no glue involved.

there's just a single, plainly visible screw on the bottom of the foot:

20140406_114036.jpg

now, you don't have to take the feet off. I was able to get the ankle apart by loosening the screws and wedging the metal pieces apart with a flat head screw driver. still to get enough flex to do that you'll still want to remove the top of the feet and if you can get the heel off without breaking it, I recommend doing so because otherwise you're probably going to maul the plastic closest to the screw with your screwdriver.

anyways, once you've got the ball out of its socket, just apply superglue/future/nail polish/whatever you think will work best for this application. once you're done, reverse the process to get the thing put back together.

So yeah, that's how you take apart the ankles on a YF-19 and nearly break a $300 import toy.

[anime52k8]

oh yeah, and to get the pins out (which I ended up doing at one point) you need a set of roll pin punches. I've got a set like this one: http://www.amazon.com/Grip-Roll-Pin-Punch-Set/dp/B003L7HOMG

I forget what size specifically you need to use but it's in there. (if your wondering, I bought the set because bandai Uses roll pins everywhere on their valks).

Anyways, I've never had luck with future personally. I use loctite brand super glue, always take the joints completely apart, and let the stuff dry completely before putting things back together. also, everything sticks better to plastic, so apply whatever it is you're appling to the plastic part of the joint (in this case that would be half of the ball itself).

[Silverstreak]

I managed to get the ball joint out of one foot without removing the pins. I was able to pry apart the foot enough. It is actually a two-piece ball joint, the top half is die-cast and the bottom half is plastic.

I coated with nail polish and put back together. Didn't work I'm not doing it again though. It wasn't a fun experience.

[Mr March]

David

That's not a bad idea, but a partial exposure kinda sounds dangerous. I think I'd rather go through the effort of a full disassembly, that way I can safely put pressure on parts I know I won't damage. The real dangerous part is trying to figure out what substance to coat the ball with.

Mommar and Anime52k8

Thank you for the in-depth guide. I have done something similar, although I think you're insane to pull out the ankle assembly by force without safely disassembling the leg. But that's just me

Your guide confirmed I needed some tools I didn't have. I guess I have to decide if I want to perform a full disassembly. My main worry is the substance I'm using. I still can't say for sure if Future Floor Polish is going to work or fail. I'm not crazy about the superglue idea either. That's kinda why I wanted to simply do a fabric shim, cause I've done it before on non-toy hardware for desk applicances and it's worked.

I am curious Anime52k8, did the pin sockets lose tension after you had punched out the pins and re-installed them? They are rather snug right now and I kinda worry if they will lose their firmness after I'm done messing with them. But I suppose on the bright side, the pin joints are meaningless to the far more serious problem of a loose ankle joint.

Silverstreak

And that would be the only thing I fear about this whole process. I'm new to fixing ball joints using liquid coats for tension, so I have no experience to determine what substance will work best. Research online at places like TFW2005 forums shows a hundred different threads with a hundred different owners stating one substance worked great for them in contrast to another who said the exact same substance didn't work at all. Like you, I don't necessarily want to disassemble the whole thing just to try coating it in something that doesn't work. Which is why I wanted to try a fabric shim, which is something I've done before on ball joints (though never with toys) and I know it will work.

[anime52k8]

Pulling the foot off was kind of an accident. As for the pins, they're steel spring pins, they're actually larger than the diameter of the hole and are under a fair amount of pressure. They where tricky to get back in but they were still tight.

[Silverstreak]

The nail polish not working was purely because I didn't put enough on. I only did one coat when I should have done 2 or 3. But I just couldn't be bothered pulling it apart again.

And I couldn't get the ankle to jump the tracks and come off either. And believe me, I tried REALLY hard. I'm amazed it didn't break. I was literally pulling with all my strength.

[Mr March]

anime52k8

Can you let me know how you got the pins back into the sockets? It's very likely I'll have the same problem, so I'd love to know what you did.

Silverstreak

Okay, I'll make sure to do 2-3 coats if I do decide to try the liquid layer route. For the YF-19 ankle, I simply disassembled the leg. It's rather easy and more important than that, it's safe

[no3Ljm]

Mr. March, you can check what I did on my YF-19 on the Macross Maintenance thread. Hope that helps.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=41401&p=1147000

[anime52k8]

anime52k8

Can you let me know how you got the pins back into the sockets? It's very likely I'll have the same problem, so I'd love to know what you did.

I think what I did was put the foot on a block of wood, compress the pin with a pair of vice grips (which made it easier to hold over the hole), then tapped it in with a small rubber mallet.

[Mr March]

Thanks fellas. This is very encouraging and doesn't look all that hard. I really like the silicone rubber shims idea, which is a variation on the fabric shim idea I original asked about.

Have you ever tried using rubber washers? Seems like that might be a good shim too.