Star Trek: Prelude to Axanar short film

[Roy Focker]

No crew of any quality will work for free. Actors often will but your crew usually want money. It will extremely rare to find enough crew willing to work for free. Also rare that a single director has mastered all the skills themselves.

The guidelines are so limiting that they make it nearly impossible to make anything. They might as well say no fan films allowed because that's how limiting it is. Although you could still try making one if it falls under fair use.

[Sildani]

Under those guidelines, the only way fan stuff could get made is if one or two people made a fully CGI video out of the goodness of their hearts. Roy is perfectly correct: no crew/actor/person of any quality will work for free.

Azrael is right too: Axanar is making some people money based off an IP that doesn't belong to them. However, the Axanar production committee isn't trying to make a profit, they're trying to make the best fan movie yet, and break even doing so.

If CBS/Paramount were at all smart, they'd take Axanar over, leave most everything and everyone who the way it is, and profit. Most all the hard work's been done for them, Alec Peters and company get to make the movie they've always wanted, and we fans get the finished product. Win-win-win.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Sildani

[sketchley]

Azrael is right too: Axanar is making some people money based off an IP that doesn't belong to them. However, the Axanar production committee isn't trying to make a profit, they're trying to make the best fan movie yet, and break even doing so.

Fixed.

Haven't seen long-time member Gubaba in these parts in ages, and your post made me do a double take.

[TehPW]

Under those guidelines, the only way fan stuff could get made is if one or two people made a fully CGI video out of the goodness of their hearts. Roy is perfectly correct: no crew/actor/person of any quality will work for free.

Gubaba is right too: Axanar is making some people money based off an IP that doesn't belong to them. However, the Axanar production committee isn't trying to make a profit, they're trying to make the best fan movie yet, and break even doing so.

If CBS/Paramount were at all smart, they'd take Axanar over, leave most everything and everyone who the way it is, and profit. Most all the hard work's been done for them, Alec Peters and company get to make the movie they've always wanted, and we fans get the finished product. Win-win-win.

I thought (or at least have read elsewhere) that it was Star Trek: Renegades ​that the guidelines were intended to neuter, not necessarily Axanar ...

[hutch]

I watched it. Was very well done and a very interesting and different way to delve into the subject matter. I agree that paramount would be smart to just take this over as is, pay everybody, up the quality ever so slightly, and release it on their new tv service.

[Major Focker]

However, the Axanar production committee isn't trying to make a profit, they're trying to make the best fan movie yet, and break even doing so.

not so sure about this. if what i read is true, a substantial chunk of the funds were being spent setting up a commercial studio for future productions that not will not necessarily be exclusively for future Trek fan films. so while there may be no cash profit per se, the committee stands to gain commercial benefits in kind (ie. assets), which a number of the backers found issue with. not to mention some questionable salaries being taken.

[technoblue]

Much of that is unsubstantiated rumor. If you go back earlier in the thread, Mommar and I were discussing it. There was a very vocal negative-nancy minority making a stink about nothing. I'm sure that minority is having a field day with this news. :rolleyes:

But even with the recent CBS/Paramount developments, I don't see any evidence of maliciousness from Axanar Productions. From my very unprofessional view, they were attempting to set up something similar to what Vic Mignona and that crew did with Star Trek Continues. Both teams have real actors working on set. And both crews are using props and emblems with their costumes that could be considered infringing. The Star Trek Continues crew were able to take things a step further by getting themselves recognized as a licensed non-profit entity. Who knows if Axanar Productions would have taken a similar step? The CBS/Paramount business got in the way and messed up their original schedule.

[Dobber]

Much of that is unsubstantiated rumor. If you go back earlier in the thread, Mommar and I were discussing it. There was a very vocal negative-nancy minority making a stink about nothing. I'm sure that minority is having a field day with this news. :rolleyes:

But even with the recent CBS/Paramount developments, I don't see any evidence of maliciousness from Axanar Productions. From my very unprofessional view, they were attempting to set up something similar to what Vic Mignona and that crew did with Star Trek Continues. Both teams have real actors working on set. And both crews are using props and emblems with their costumes that could be considered infringing. The Star Trek Continues crew were able to take things a step further by getting themselves recognized as a licensed non-profit entity. Who knows if Axanar Productions would have taken a similar step? The CBS/Paramount business got in the way and messed up their original schedule.

Not unsubstantiated at all. Numerous updates Axanar themselves gave about the studio they rented and were refurbishing, not only for Axanar...but for future professional quality projects. They were also paying themselves a salary with our donated money.

Look, I brought Axanar here and donated a decent amount of money (for Me) in both the KS and the indigogo campaigns. The crap I've seen Alec Peters say and do along with the other things that have come to light about him and Axanar's behavior I will NEVER give these A-holes anymore money. Yes CBS and Paramount came down hard, and it is a shame that productions like Continues and New Voyages are killed by this, but I put the fault squarely in Alec Peters's lap.

Chris

[technoblue]

Not unsubstantiated at all. Numerous updates Axanar themselves gave about the studio they rented and were refurbishing, not only for Axanar...but for future professional quality projects. They were also paying themselves a salary with our donated money.

Look, I brought Axanar here and donated a decent amount of money (for Me) in both the KS and the indigogo campaigns. The crap I've seen Alec Peters say and do along with the other things that have come to light about him and Axanar's behavior I will NEVER give these A-holes anymore money. Yes CBS and Paramount came down hard, and it is a shame that productions like Continues and New Voyages are killed by this, but I put the fault squarely in Alec Peters's lap.

Chris

I don't know Alex Peters personally, and I certainly don't have an axe to grind with him. I also donated to both campaigns and I am well aware of Axanar's financial information. I just read it differently and avoid the negative bent. It saves me a lot of headache to believe that Axanar Productions was posting that information in good faith to be open about what they were doing with the funding they received. It keeps things simple and reasonable. Trying to believe the conspiracy, IMO, makes things more complex. But I do think it speaks volumes that the naysayers decided to twist the information into something that it wasn't. And I'm sorry that it got to you, dobber. I appreciated how you brought attention to this project.

What really confuses me about the naysayers' argument is that Axanar Productions isn't an outlier. That team wasn't starting some new trend with the new Axanar film. They were just a bunch of fans who had success with the Prelude film and were in the right place at the right time, wanting to release a sequel to that effort. They were thrown under the bus for it.

Why? I still don't really get that part. There are plenty of professional fan productions that have completed whole series, sequels, and have running Trek episodes, some which I gather get as much funding as Axanar. But it seems to me that a mission was taken up to stop the new guy in true Lord of the Flies fashion. Now, everyone gets to pay the price. Good on them, I guess. I hope it was worth it.

Edited June 27, 2016 by technoblue

[Dobber]

I get what you are saying Tech, even accepting the in good faith reporting what they were spending on which is fine with me, it just means they admitted what they were doing, they then turn around and DENIED it when the suit came about, they lied. At the end of the day, they DID use the Star Trek IP to create a business. Not to just make fan films but to build their own studio and they flaunted it. I donated money to see an Axanar film, as I LOVED Prelude. I did not give them money to start their own business to make other movies not just Trek. New Voyages and Continues didn't do that...nor did any other fan film. It really is a shame everyone has to pay the price now.

Chris

[technoblue]

For anyone else who is as behind on the details of the Axanar case as I am, this site is required reading:

http://axamonitor.com/doku.php?id=start

Apologies if this was posted before, but I was surprised by some of the info that's now public. Dobber, you were right. It seems we were not getting the whole truth in the official backer updates, and that is upsetting. I'm not sure what the project team's ultimate goal was now. Did they really want to make another Axanar fan film? The axamonitor site is dangerous in a good way because (like the discussion here) it got me asking questions again.

[Dobber]

Yeah, Axamonitor is where I learned a lot too. It's a good, just the facts site.

Chris

[Major Focker]

clarification and comparison of Trek vs SW fan film guidelines:

http://1701news.com/node/1250/come-not-between-draconians.html

http://axamonitor.com/doku.php?id=guidelines-podcast

• $50K PER 15 MINS. Only applies to crowdfunding. Private ok. Where we've seen problems creep in is with large, large crowdfunding campaigns,“ and their physical perks. Van Citters said the $50,000 crowdfunding applied to each 15-minute episode allowed under the guidelines. Productions are allowed to create two-part episodes totaling 30 minutes. “$50,000 is available per 15 minutes,” he reiterated.

[JB0]

The thing that gets me is... according to the Axanar people they were working closely with a corporate contact to make sure they were staying on the right side of the line, precisely because of the ambitious scope and lack of solid guidelines.

And yet, somehow, the first word they had that they weren't on that side of the line anymore was a subpoena. That is, ummm, really shitty.

[Dynaman]

The thing that gets me is... according to the Axanar people they were working closely with a corporate contact to make sure they were staying on the right side of the line, precisely because of the ambitious scope and lack of solid guidelines.

And yet, somehow, the first word they had that they weren't on that side of the line anymore was a subpoena. That is, ummm, really shitty.

That, of course, is their side of the story - and it is worth every bit of the ink the agreement was written on...

[JB0]

That's why I led in with the "according to" instead of presenting it as hard truth.

But on the other hand, it would be a weird thing to make up. And I'd honestly expect CBS/Viacom/Paramount/Star Trek Enterprises Inc to say something to the effect of "did not!" instead of letting a lie like that stand.

But on the third hand, the two sides are on unusually disparate footing in this suit. Our corporate overlords likely don't see a REASON to interact with the court of public opinion... and really, that is the biggest issue on display here.

In conclusion, regardless of who is right and who is telling the truth, Legal and PR desperately need to sit down and talk to each other. What you CAN do and what you SHOULD do are not always the same.

What they've done and how things have progressed from there(see: official fan film guidelines) demonstrates either a startling ignorance of their fanbase, which happens to be one of the largest and most active on Earth, or a callous disregard for same.

Instead of stone-faced silence, we should have a dedicated Trek Fan Relations Agent with a long history of community engagement explaining the situation from CBS' view and how things came to the current state. And the fan film guidelines are, well, rubbish, and speak strongly of a corporate mindset that views the fans as mindless consumers of content.

Edited July 19, 2016 by JB0

[technoblue]

To be fair, Axanar Productions might have thought they were well within the boundaries of the rules depending on whomever it was they were talking to. The question is, was that contact someone in a position to give authoritative guidance on licensing issues for fan films or was that person a no-name contractor whose only experience was that they sat nearby the legal team?

As a backer, it sucks how events have played out for this film, but I agree that there is a definitive comedy of errors with the lack of communication between the two parties. And it stresses how important it is to keep these lines open (to check and recheck, instead of making assumptions). Both sides are to blame for that breakdown, especially when the weight and scope of the project shot into the stratosphere.

In many ways, I think Axanar Productions lost sight of its goal with producing fan films after it generated so much success with Prelude. I don't mind that they wanted to build their own professional production studio if they were having fun, but that seems now like it should have been a separate unrelated thing.

[Dynaman]

The "we were in contact with" line is used a LOT when someone gets in a situation like this. They might very well have been in contact with someone but till it is written in ink and signed it means nothing.

> And the fan film guidelines are, well, rubbish, and speak strongly of a corporate mindset that views the fans as mindless consumers of content.

Fans ARE mindless consumers of content. I'll be doing so on Sunday in regards to this very franchise in particular. I may come off as uncaring but anyone trying to "further" the story of someone else's IP without a rock solid contract is a fool.

[JB0]

> And the fan film guidelines are, well, rubbish, and speak strongly of a corporate mindset that views the fans as mindless consumers of content.

Fans ARE mindless consumers of content. I'll be doing so on Sunday in regards to this very franchise in particular. I may come off as uncaring but anyone trying to "further" the story of someone else's IP without a rock solid contract is a fool.

Historically speaking, Trek has very much tried to keep people thinking. It is a brand that has generally not WANTED mindless consumers.

And perhaps because of this, it has long enjoyed a fan base that is quite active away from the screen as well as in front of it. If the fans were mindless consumers then there wouldn't BE a franchise, just another forgotten 60s TV show. And the first space shuttle would be named Constitution, not Enterprise.

The point I am making is that they have a fan base that has been vital and active and engaged for fifty years now. In spite of gross missteps by the brand's handlers at almost every turn. And apparently they think nothing whatsoever of a situation most companies would kill for, and as near as I can tell have been attempting to destroy that fan engagement.

They should be CELEBRATING these people, not trying to crush them.

(And this sunday I will be steering clear of movie theaters and ignoring what looks to be a terrible movie. I would like to hear otherwise, but hold precious little hope.)

[jenius]

Even if the Axanar folks were working with the right person at Paramount to do everything within bounds that were carefully plotted for them, all it takes is one Paramount attorney reviewing what's going on and saying "Well, technically you shouldn't be doing this..." for it all to come apart. The problem, almost always in life, is that within the people you want to celebrate there's a few bad apples that will exploit every inch you give in ways you do not desire nor foresee. Ever wonder why tax codes are horrible messes? It's because they start off as something fairly simple and every time someone comes up with some inventive way to circumvent the spirit of the tax law the law needs to get modified to stop that.

[areaseven]

Here's another impressive fan film.

[Sandman]

I like the way that was filmed.

[electric indigo]

I halfway expected a Cylon Basestar to show up...

Come to think of it, a Ronald D. Moore reboot is what Star Trek needs the most.

[Mr March]

Not bad, but a little thin. Still, very impressive work.

[TangledThorns]

Great SFX at least.