skullmilitia Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I have a copy of Shadow Chronicles I'll happily "Donate" to HG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 I should add that a lot of Latin American fans of RT were seriously pissed at the Creavision C&D fiasco, so maybe HG would have gotten more support for this from them if they had tried it this time last year. So what do those same fans think of Creavision now that they've apparently moved up in the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerli Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 So what do those same fans think of Creavision now that they've apparently moved up in the world? they are still pissed off.... VERY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Togo Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) Let's say they get their 500k. How long before they produce anything? Given their record, we're likely to see further seasons and sequels to anime works currenrly in production before HG produces a one-off episode. Edited July 10, 2014 by Duke Togo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) they are still pissed off.... VERY At Creavision? Why? Edited July 10, 2014 by Einherjar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerli Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 At Creavision? Why? First for not releasing a full short and avoid all the C&D fiasco Second for accept working for HG Third because complaint in internet is free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypherxv Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 So they basically sold out to HG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renegadeleader1 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) So they basically sold out to HG.More like WB shut the project down because of their live action movie rights deal, and HG brought Creavision on board to make it up to them. If HG really was the ones responsible there's no way Creavision would touch them with a ten foot pole for fear of being screwed over again.Besides how could Creavision "sell out" to HG if HG has no money and are as desperate as you all claim... Oh right butthurt! Massive amounts of butthurt with you guys concerning HG. Edited July 10, 2014 by renegadeleader1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mecha2241 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 According to the FAQ they just put up on KS site HG was responsible for the C&D. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1381502542/robotech-academy#project_faq_96780 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renegadeleader1 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 According to the FAQ they just put up on KS site HG was responsible for the C&D. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1381502542/robotech-academy#project_faq_96780 Yes.... Because Creavision, the team behind the Project Valkyrie fan film, is working on Robotech Academy! We had to send them a C&D because of outside legal obligations, but we recognized their talent and are excited to have them involved. Outside legal obligations I.E. WB did it. Especially since everyone here(including myself) feels BW had no idea what was going on with Project Valkyrie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen72 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 More like WB shut the project down because of their live action movie rights deal, and HG brought Creavision on board to make it up to them. If HG really was the ones responsible there's no way Creavision would touch them with a ten foot pole for fear of being screwed over again. Besides how could Creavision "sell out" to HG if HG has no money and are as desperate as you all claim... Oh right butthurt! Massive amounts of butthurt with you guys concerning HG. At the end of the day,.....a paying gig....is a paying gig....while of course it is a "consolation prize"....all of a sudden it went from "not privy to the details".......and now "We had to send them a C&D because".... I am not sure about any WB involvement..but FOR CERTAIN I don't believe that "good guys" and HG will ever go together....this was a business move to bring in the Latin American audience.... If funded.......July 2015 is just Yune and co. kidding themselves... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerli Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 According to the FAQ they just put up on KS site HG was responsible for the C&D. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1381502542/robotech-academy#project_faq_96780 This? Because Creavision, the team behind the Project Valkyrie fan film, is working on Robotech Academy! We had to send them a C&D because of outside legal obligations, but we recognized their talent and are excited to have them involved. So...when Creavision rant on the oficial FB page about the C&D THEY ALREADY were working for HG... But they just didn't know yet!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoneWolf Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 they are still pissed off.... VERY Thanks for that info, Gerli. I was wondering how Latin American fans would react to Creavision's involvement with this Kickstarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Let's say they get their 500k. How long before they produce anything? Given their record, we're likely to see further seasons and sequels to anime works currenrly in production before HG produces a one-off episode. They are saying July 2015. Most KS projects have a "When we're done" due date. Look at that potato-salad-KS. Well, good for Creavision. They're getting money for their fanart now. Go from no-one to being hired by the people that almost-sued you. And it looks like this KS got a boost from South America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 While we're talking about it, I'll man up to the fact that I was wrong when I thought Creavision would never recover from the C&D debacle on the other thread, regardless of how this turns up. Though, I really hope they're okay with working under strict deadlines and significant creative, and legal, restrictions. In fact, and Zen72 can confirm this, I'll man up to the fact that I was wrong about this as well. When the first images for the Kickstarter was being teased I thought it was going to be for a massive, but "harmless," comic book reboot through Dynamite comics that would finally wipe away all the secondary continuity which HG has been eluding to for years. Like Macross the First, but with bad, immature, writing. Apparently, there's more coming from there after the Voltron crossover, but no one cares anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Togo Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 They are saying July 2015. Most KS projects have a "When we're done" due date. Look at that potato-salad-KS. HG's track record says July 2015 is a pipe dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skullmilitia Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 It'll be shipping on the same boat as the Bandai reissues and Glaug Vinyls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 HG's track record says July 2015 is a pipe dream. All told, Harmony Gold's track record with missing release targets suggests that if everything proceeds according to their plan and they'd actually get the Kickstarter money they want, the Robotech Academy pilot would be 2-3 years late... so, probably mid-2018. Somehow, I suspect that things will NOT go smoothly. Creavision are rank amateurs, and will probably suffer considerable culture shock from having to 1. work on someone else's terms, 2. cede all rights to their work to someone else, and 3. deal with the MANY idiocies of Harmony Gold corporate culture including a torturously long and unnecessarily convoluted approvals process for each and every fiddly little thing that goes into the work, and Harmony Gold's insistence on having absolute control over the release of promotional information. That's not counting the inevitable issues they'll have hashing out a distribution contract when the time to release the home video edition comes, since previous distributors have suggested their approach might be best summarized with the term "Demands above their station", never mind all the time that'll be wasted pitching that no-sell mess to networks that'll likely be sorely pressed not to laugh in their faces and invite them to slam their heads in the door a few times on the way out. Realistically, we're looking at 2020... IF they get the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camk4evr Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) Went to have a look at there FAQ on the KS page and got annoyed when I saw: However, we want to make it clear that Harmony Gold licensed the exclusive rights to distribute Macross and its derivatives outside of Japan. The company has acquired these rights through all the official and legal channels in good faith, and we have protected these rights successfully for the last 30 years. The part I bolded is utter BS. So it amuses me to no end that it looks like the KS is going to fail. According to kicktraq it looks like, as of now, they're going to be short by ~$48,000 Edited July 10, 2014 by camk4evr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 The part I bolded is utter BS. So it amuses me to no end that it looks like the KS is going to fail. According to kicktraq it looks like, as of now, they're going to be short by ~$48,000 The part you bolded is legally actionable misrepresentation, should Big West wish to challenge them in court... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 You forgot to bold "protected these rights successfully" too. But hey, they said it on Kickstarter, it must be true! Their claim about HAVING to send Creavision a legal threat is at least accurate, though I suspect it's the only true thing in the entire sales pitch. US trademark law says if you ignore violations of your trademark, you can lose it. Anyways, I can't count the number of ways this can go wrong. I think the best part is the... hey, wait a second? Didn't this Kickstarter campaign used to say that proceeds would go towards animating the pilot AND a feasibility study towards making it a real series? I guess they had to strike that last part once they realized it wasn't part of Carl's Vision("Carl's Vision" is TM of Harmony Gold please don't sue me). It's also REALLY disgusting how much they flog "this is all Carl's dream, make it real so he can rest in peace" on this thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Togo Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Feasibility study, lol. More unattended PowerPoint presentations at cons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 It's also REALLY disgusting how much they flog "this is all Carl's dream, make it real so he can rest in peace" on this thing. No, the REALLY disgusting part is that this isn't the first time they've tried that. That was also the heart of their pitch for their bastardized version of MOSPEADA's wrap-up OVA, Love Live Alive... about how it had been part of Carl's creative vision for Robotech for ages and they were doing it for him, dammit, because he wasn't around anymore to do it himself. In a way, it's even more shameless and disgusting if you're aware that, right up until Carl passed away, Harmony Gold's "creative staff" was cheerfully disposing of vast swathes of Carl's vision for Robotech because, in their terms, of its poor quality, its internal inconsistency problems, etc. They were only too happy to get condemn Carl's vision as a tangled, amateurish mess until he died and there was money to be made in attributing everything to him once he wasn't around to confirm or deny it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areaseven Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Since this is the only open Robotech thread, I'll just park these here. (Sorry, no English version available...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technoblue Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) For giggles (and since the kickstarter is only offering unfinished artwork) I decided to ask myself, what might Robotech Academy look like? We already have the obvious answer: Macross Frontier. And then HG offered it's own odd answer some time ago: Robotech x Voltron. But then, the discussion on poor Carl (RIP) sent me to a darker place: Robotech x High School of the Dead Hm. Actually, the overused zombie trope may be too creative for this project. Edited July 10, 2014 by technoblue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 No, the REALLY disgusting part is that this isn't the first time they've tried that. That was also the heart of their pitch for their bastardized version of MOSPEADA's wrap-up OVA, Love Live Alive... about how it had been part of Carl's creative vision for Robotech for ages and they were doing it for him, dammit, because he wasn't around anymore to do it himself. In a way, it's even more shameless and disgusting if you're aware that, right up until Carl passed away, Harmony Gold's "creative staff" was cheerfully disposing of vast swathes of Carl's vision for Robotech because, in their terms, of its poor quality, its internal inconsistency problems, etc. They were only too happy to get condemn Carl's vision as a tangled, amateurish mess until he died and there was money to be made in attributing everything to him once he wasn't around to confirm or deny it. Yeah, I know they started laying it on about dear old Carl and how this is what he would've wanted before Mister Macek's funeral was over. As soon as he had no voice, they stopped quietly dismantling his work and very vocally praising it(or at least, what they claimed it was). But the Kickstarter pitch just cranks it up that extra notch. Every other sentence is "just like Carl dreamed." I do admit to missing the Love, Live, Alive fiasco, so I don't have a real frame of reference there. I know Shadow Chronicles was just "Macek wrote this, so you KNOW it's legit", shifting to "Macek wrote this, so don't blame us" once it bombed horribly. They didn't play it to the hilt like this is doing. It's still less disgusting than the Robotech ad at his funeral was, though. I suppose credit where credit is due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I know Shadow Chronicles was just "Macek wrote this, so you KNOW it's legit", shifting to "Macek wrote this, so don't blame us" once it bombed horribly. They didn't play it to the hilt like this is doing. Eh... I don't recall them ever trying that one for Shadow Chronicles. There, they made no secret of the fact that it was written by the current creative staff, and their reaction to it once the fans proclaimed that it was rubbish was to conclude that dismissing the movie as garbage was tantamount to a personal attack on Harmony Gold staffers (mostly Tommy), over which they proceeded to wear out many banhammers, stopping only when they realized they were in danger of completely running out of people. At some points, they tried to justify this with the claim that they didn't want Warner Bros to see the official Robotech web site full of people openly criticizing Robotech, but I don't think they ever tried the "poor dead Carl" trick for that, since the backlash happened when he was still alive. It wasn't until Carl snuffed it and they announced Love Live Alive as Carl's vision for Robotech that they started really to use "No, this wasn't us... this is all Carl's idea" as a shield from criticism. This is just doubly appalling because Academy is the second time they've fielded a laughable project with Tommy's fingerprints all over it and said "No sir, this is Carl's work" to get the fans to shell out for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 In any case, HG needs to lay off poor Carl. ... I'd've SWORN Shadow Chronicles was later than that. Ah well, we all knew I was crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Togo Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 The strongest parts of Robotech came from the three series it was forged out of. The weakest parts all stem from the "creative minds" at HG. If they had any real creative talent, they'd have jobs elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gakken85 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Robotech isn't really anything other than slamming together 1 great anime, 1 good anime, and 1 crappy one. It's hard to continue something when you had no creative output in the first place. Again, I'm glad it was brought over when it was, otherwise I probably wouldn't care much about Macross. It's not like any kid in the 80's growing up had access to the original Macross show. Macross is something specific and always evolving, though. Would I like to know more about Rick Hunter if the story was good? Maybe... but that ship has kinda sailed haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrych Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Actually, I would argue that is what pretty creative to take three completely different anime shows and bridge them together with some pretty small things that just managed to work out. The idea of protoculture was pretty creative in Robotech, as it went from culture meaning a product of a society to a culture like something created in a lab. That was pretty clever. And as Mospeada was often focused on finding fuel, and Southern Cross having the weird scenes around the mounds, it kind of worked. Not perfectly, and certainly not when you see the originals and realize what things were. The mounds in SC also kind of worked with the fake out of the SDF-2. (That was the one glaring omission that every kid who saw Robotech wondered - where was the SDF-2 and why did we never see it!) The idea of Claudia's nephew was a little racist - I guess they were trying to connect the only real African American character in Macross. Dana was in Macross so that connection made a little sense - even though they had to spend a whole episode explaining the connection. Mospeada had the least connection - and in some ways the most. It of course tied together with Macross as the REF came back - but the mysterious missing Admiral Hunter was a bit strange, as was the returning expedition that clearly was following other failed expeditions that were never really mentioned in context. The ending with Scott looking for the SDF-3 made little sense - how was he going to get there is his little fighter?! But with all the plot holes, all the contextual issues, in the end, it was better contextually than so many movies made as sequels that have far more issues - including X-men, Star Wars, among others. To the original point, the current HG projects are having FAR more contextual issues that what the original Robotech had with three completely different shows. Shadow Chronicles seemed like a bad fan project from people who didn't watch the original show or had no concept of the Sentinels except some vague understanding. Coming from HG, it made no sense at all. That makes me have little confidence in Academy. I realize that I am a Robotech apologist to many of you - it has a special place for me in my childhood and opened up anime to me (particularly the Robotech Art I book which honestly spoke of the sources of Robotech and origins of anime). But I'm not supporting this kickstarter simply because I don't think Shadow Chronicles did justice to the source material or enhanced the story. It did nothing to draw in new fans, and created more issues for old fans. With Academy, we can assume that it is the story of the Mars and Jupiter divisions being trained - but it could be the training of Jack Baker and Karen Penn. Or maybe it is the training of Dana Sterling and Bowie Grant. But I kind of thought Jack Baker was trained on the Zentradi station. And we saw Dana graduate on "Earth" in "Dana's Story". And if it follows any other story line, what would be the point? As it stands, I'm not sure there is a point to Academy at any rate as I don't see it advancing the story at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 The strongest parts of Robotech came from the three series it was forged out of. The weakest parts all stem from the "creative minds" at HG. If they had any real creative talent, they'd have jobs elsewhere. Macross and or to characters in later episodes alluding to still having relationships with Macross characters. Fixed it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Togo Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Fixed it for you. I like Mospeada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Q: Why seek funding through Kickstarter? A: As you know, anyone who backs a project has a voice in its outcome. By reaching out to Robotech fans to get directly involved, this offers a unique opportunity to produce Robotech Academy more closely to Carl Macek's original vision while also offering cool rewards to our backers. i.e., You, the fans, get to fund our risk because we didn't want to spend on Carl's idea. So it's Carl's fault if it fails and the fans fault for trying it. Oh and here's one of many cautionary tales: Kickstarter project spent $3.5M to finish a working prototype—and ended in disaster ~ A login-managing USB key won awards, was covered everywhere, never materialized.(Ars Technica) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) I like Mospeada. But Robotech fans are kind of iffy when it comes to anything that isn't Macross or directly tied to same. That's why every take on making a Robotech sequel tries to tie into the "Macross Saga" as directly and frequently as possible. Macross is the only part of Robotech that 99% of Robotech fans actually care about. By way of example, look at the Shadow Chronicles... every major character except for one has some direct tie to the Macross Saga cast. Agent ONE has the right of it, I think. Just look at the logo for Robotech Academy... a bastardization of the distinctive Macross UN Spacy roundel, not something that looks like MOSPEADA's Mars forces insignia even though the titular academy appears to be on either Phobos or Deimos. Edited July 10, 2014 by Seto Kaiba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts