terry the lone wolf Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 Maybe. But it just shows that they're incapable of creating fresh ideas that might revive their franchise. They constantly have to go back to their past to come up with concepts. The fans want the Sentinels. I feel the reason why Shadow Chronicles failed that it wasn't the Sentinels. I thought Shadow Chronicles was close to the Robotech 3: Odyssey concept but with Sentinel characters. Even on the Macross side there's fans that want a continuation featuring the 1st generation characters and I guess it's the same for the Robotech side..
Mommar Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 What about a Kickstarter with the goal of a legal compromise with HG instead of a drawn out Legal battle? We Macross fans could raise money for the expressed purpose of paying HG their trademark fees in exchange for allowing Big West and US Distribution companies to import Macross Frontier, 7, DYRL you name it to the States. It would be a Win for everyone... including yes the HG corporation we love to hate. But ask yourselves would you rather spend a few bucks now to satisfy a trademark fee you grumble about or twiddle your thumbs for possibly decades in hoping that something will change and someone else will deal with it? And just think of the big positive message it would send to companies like Corporate Leadership of Funimation, Section 23, Viz Media, etc that Macross fans are so enthusiastic for a chance to buy Macross in America. Not a bad idea, compromise. It'll never fly on this internet thing.
Perrych Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 The fans want the Sentinels. I feel the reason why Shadow Chronicles failed that it wasn't the Sentinels. I thought Shadow Chronicles was close to the Robotech 3: Odyssey concept but with Sentinel characters. Even on the Macross side there's fans that want a continuation featuring the 1st generation characters and I guess it's the same for the Robotech side.. I think Yune must hate The sentinels because all the ground work is done for that and yet they still won't follow through. The excuse of books and comics covering the subject matter is weak. I read the. Hobbit, saw the cartoon, read the comic, and still watch the Peter Jackson versions. If it is a good story, they have nothing to worry about.
Hoptimus Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 I think Yune must hate The sentinels because all the ground work is done for that and yet they still won't follow through. The excuse of books and comics covering the subject matter is weak. I read the. Hobbit, saw the cartoon, read the comic, and still watch the Peter Jackson versions. If it is a good story, they have nothing to worry about. The Sentinels will never happen due to it having the core Macross characters. I read the novels and the story was pretty cool and in some ways the novel story is a bit better than the outline that was in Robotech Art 3.
TheLoneWolf Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 For those of you guests and lurkers that were thinking of donating money, let me remind you, you are giving money away with the chance that this does not launch. This is a RISK. The same risk venture capitalists take on projects. I'm sure HG has approached networks before and most have looked at the numbers and said "Not interested". If you want your money back, Kickstarter does not issue refunds. Refunds are issued at the discretion of the project starter. The big projects on Kickstarter are working because they are actually feasible and will likely work when they launch, i.e. the risk is worth it. Those of you who actually donated to this project should be asking all tough questions. What's the plan? Who is on-board to write, direct, design, etc? How will you distribute this? If this project goes to a full series, will you approach companies for sponsors? Which companies would you look at to sponsor. By putting money into this project, you need to be checking in on them like any project sponsor. You better be checking in on them to see if your money is being well spent. That's a golden post that every potential donor needs to read. Anyhow, here are a couple of problems that I see with this Kickstarter. 1) The writing team. This is the same writing team (minus Tom Bateman) that was responsible for Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles, which featured mediocre writing at best. As we've seen from the Robotech/Voltron crossover, Tommy Yune's writing abilities haven't progressed since The Shadow Chronicles. As for Ford Riley, he hasn't written anything since TSC. IMDB only lists Riley as having served as a TV series editor for two kids' shows since TSC. Are these writers that donors would want to entrust with a $500,000 project? 2) The second problem is that this money is only going towards a pilot episode. If the story is to be completed, then it'll be up to TV network executives to actually pick the show up. If Yune and Riley's storytelling received a lukewarm reception from the fans in TSC, what kind of reception do they expect to receive from skeptical network execs? To make matters complicated, Kevin McKeever has stated in the past that any network that would want to pick up Robotech would have cede complete creative control over to Harmony Gold. Considering Yune and Ford's thin credentials, demanding full creative control may actually hurt the show's chances of being picked up. 3) Even though Tommy Yune said that they're going to be presenting a new set of characters with this project, they need to be explicitly clear that none of the SDF Macross characters and mecha will be appearing, at least in any recognizable form. I'm sure that there are a sizable number of donors who are hoping that some elements from Macross will be revisited. But unless Harmony Gold is abundantly clear that this will not be happening, I can see these hard-paying fans becoming very upset.
terry the lone wolf Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 The Sentinels will never happen due to it having the core Macross characters. I read the novels and the story was pretty cool and in some ways the novel story is a bit better than the outline that was in Robotech Art 3. I don't see why they can't redesign the characters. Give Rick short hair. Give Lisa light blond hair. Give Max contacts. It's not hard. Though in part 2 of the AX panel video looks like a VF-04 Lightning flying around..
skullmilitia Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 I don't see why they can't redesign the characters. Give Rick short hair. Give Lisa light blond hair. Give Max contacts. It's not hard. Though in part 2 of the AX panel video looks like a VF-04 Lightning flying around.. Hey man, stop giving them good ways to bypass the law. Do you really want these hacks trying to ruin good characters and story? I'll gladly support Robotech.. in another producers, writers, directors hands. Until they change the momentum of fail brought on by the current inept staff, it's just never going to get better. If HG had a brain, they'd remove everyone that has given them dismal results the last decade, and bring in a new team of bright eye'd, well versed production people that would do the job. Robotech wasn't great because Fan's made it, it was great because it was done by an outside frame of reference. They need new people to come up with new ideas, and have a F****** clue about what sells in Anime. Shadow Chronicles does not sell, CGI does not fix terrible story telling. all things to remember before you basically throw your money in the trash. As said before, it's just for a Pilot show, meaning, it probably won't, and likely will never get anywhere in the age of well written animated cinema.
isamu Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 I'd like to see an RT story revolving around the events that took place between the end of the Macross Saga and the start of the Southern Cross saga, as well as the end of the SC saga and the start of The New Generation.
The Shade Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 I'm so torn by this. As much as I'd love to see more Robotech I don't like the idea of Harmony Gold behind it. It'd be like asking George Lucas to direct another Star Wars film, ugh. I am leaning to donate still... Let me throw you a rope and pull you back to the lightside. The idea behind this KS is to fund a tv pilot. But, the ultimate goal is to greenlight a tv series. Can such a series succeed with the current people at HG working on it? That is what you have to ask yourself when you think about donating. A pilot is possible. But a network greenlighting a full series produced by people with an unproven track record? That is a lot harder to get going.
Einherjar Posted July 8, 2014 Author Posted July 8, 2014 Let me throw you a rope and pull you back to the lightside. The idea behind this KS is to fund a tv pilot. But, the ultimate goal is to greenlight a tv series. Can such a series succeed with the current people at HG working on it? That is what you have to ask yourself when you think about donating. A pilot is possible. But a network greenlighting a full series produced by people with an unproven track record? That is a lot harder to get going. It's other people's money, so don't worry. Sometimes you just can't stop the predatory, and habitual, nature of nostalgia.
Guest davidwhangchoi Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 i love the updates on the kickstarter update #3 carl predicts crowd funding in the 18th century. hahahaha i guess that's going to be the type of updates on the progress of the project.
Old_Nash Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 i love the updates on the kickstarter update #3 carl predicts crowd funding in the 18th century. hahahaha i guess that's going to be the type of updates on the progress of the project. Burn the Witch !
Chronocidal Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Build a bridge out of him! And sadly, now I want to see a Robotech Abridged series that completely eschews any form of storytelling, and simply lumps all three generations together, with the entire cast being completely aware of how little sense it makes.
coronadlux Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 kickstarter was fun when people, working from their garage, build things that benefited everyone. 3D printers, laser cnc machines, oculus rift etc... Now, you get a real estate company (Isn't real estate booming right now?) asking for the fans for money for a pilot! They say they are giving the fans what they want. Ok, the fans want to see "The Sentinels" NOT a series based on a school where the cream of the crop will study. Really? How about a back story of Robotech, what caused Zor to betray the Masters, or How the Masters waged war throughout the galaxies. Something different. ok, ranting here. sorry. I love Robotech and the stories that make it, but, I hate the way HG has killed any and all possibility of new stuff and maybe even getting some of the original agreement revised to allow them to use the characters and mecha in new shows. I vote no to support, I'll find a bootleg version somewhere if it even comes out.
Seto Kaiba Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 I don't see why they can't redesign the characters. Give Rick short hair. Give Lisa light blond hair. Give Max contacts. It's not hard. Though in part 2 of the AX panel video looks like a VF-04 Lightning flying around.. They tried that once, in the failed Robotech II: the Sentinels series... and that kind of minimal redesign is still straying dangerously close to a copyright infringement lawsuit. That's why, when they went to do Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles, they made sure all the returning characters - even those that would only be appearing in the comic book - were all but entirely unrecognizable so the owners of the Macross IP wouldn't find cause for a lawsuit. That's why "Rick Hunter" in the Shadow Chronicles now looks rather like Hideo Kuze and has none of the distinguishing traits that the original Mikimoto character design had. "Lisa" also already got a redesign for the comic, and she's just another woman who's got the same generic pornstar body as all the women Tommy draws and couldn't be picked out of a crowd of one unless you had been told beforehand it was supposed to be her. Characters with more distinctive appearances, such as Britai, Exsedol, Max, and Milia were killed off or "put on a bus" because a redesign is still pretty risky... especially for the latter two, who are some of Macross's most-recurring characters. The "VF-4 Lightning" you think you see there is actually a AF-03 from Genesis Climber MOSPEADA, which has a similar shape, but does not transform. (If you've seen MOSPEADA, you'll remember this as the fighter Yellow Belmont crashed on Earth in.) The idea behind this KS is to fund a tv pilot. But, the ultimate goal is to greenlight a tv series. Can such a series succeed with the current people at HG working on it? That is what you have to ask yourself when you think about donating. A pilot is possible. But a network greenlighting a full series produced by people with an unproven track record? That is a lot harder to get going. No... the truly staggering amount of legal baggage the Robotech franchise already carries, coupled with the bad press from all of their various jackass behavior, would probably be enough to put almost any network off the series no matter how good it was. As the production staff are literal amateurs, the writers pathetically inexperienced, and the company behind it painfully out of touch in the industry, the chances of it getting green-lit are slightly worse than those of the Earth spontaneously stopping mid-spin to toss everyone into space. They say they are giving the fans what they want. Ok, the fans want to see "The Sentinels" NOT a series based on a school where the cream of the crop will study. Really? How about a back story of Robotech, what caused Zor to betray the Masters, or How the Masters waged war throughout the galaxies. Something different. There's a very good reason they won't revisit the Sentinels concept... it's too risky, from a copyright perspective. They're staying well clear of anything overtly Macross wherever possible, because they know they've soured relations with Big West bigtime. The idea of doing a series set between two of the sagas derived from Big West-owned material is akin to suicide, and just trying to use the characters the fans would expect to see in that ungainly mess would be navigating a legal minefield with very little chance that they'll come out intact. Sentinels is off the table eternally because there's just too much danger of provoking a lawsuit... they'll never put it in those terms, but they're adamant that they will not be revisiting the Sentinels series come hell or high water and it doesn't take a genius to see why. As far as stories revolving around Zor and the "Robotech Masters", that runs into two problems... the first being that the fans are going to expect to see things Harmony Gold can't legally use like the Zentradi. The second is that the Masters Saga is, per what Harmony Gold's own staff and licensees have had to say, is far and away the least popular part of Robotech. A lot of fans simply loathe the whole saga on principle, to the extent that Toynami won't do Masters Saga toys because they're convinced they won't sell. If the goal is to "give the people what they want", then anything involving the Masters is demonstrably what they don't... at least, as far as any objectively measurable evidence is concerned (e.g. polling data).
Perrych Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 I think the pilot probably could be picked on 2nd tier cable channel, as they are always looking for new content. The challenge I have to your premise about the legal problems of the Sentinels is that they continue to release it on video. Not sure why profiting off something made 20 years ago is ok but not today. If this was accurate, how are they doing the Voltron crossover which is only using Macross characters?
Dynaman Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 I think the pilot probably could be picked on 2nd tier cable channel, as they are always looking for new content. The challenge I have to your premise about the legal problems of the Sentinels is that they continue to release it on video. Not sure why profiting off something made 20 years ago is ok but not today. If this was accurate, how are they doing the Voltron crossover which is only using Macross characters? They are allowed to use Macross characters in non-animated merchandise. A comic book in this case counts as spin-off type merchandise.
Duke Togo Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 I'm not big on potato salad. If this was a kickstarter to back making homemade macaroni and cheese, I could get behind it.
SuperSenpai Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Fans want to see the Sentinels in theory (i.e., a sequel that follows the Macross characters), not the Sentinels that was actually written and partially produced. The three episodes that were made were not very good. The plot outlines for the remaining episodes were also not very good either. The novelizations were very uneven as well, going further and further off the rails the deeper into the story it went. _End of the Circle_ was a train wreck. Protoculture became The Force a la Star Wars. Minmei went from an aging pop star who can't let go of the past to the mother of Zor and the reason for the existence of the entire Robotech saga. It was bad. The Sentinels is evidence that anything good that came from Robotech was mostly from Macross, and mostly from the Japanese source material, not what HG made up to fill in the holes. And this is coming from someone that actually looks back fondly on Robotech, warts and all. Robotech is like a tortured zombie that keeps getting resurrecting to do his master's evil bidding. Just let the poor thing die and remember it for what it was.
Seto Kaiba Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) I think the pilot probably could be picked on 2nd tier cable channel, as they are always looking for new content. The challenge I have to your premise about the legal problems of the Sentinels is that they continue to release it on video. Not sure why profiting off something made 20 years ago is ok but not today. If this was accurate, how are they doing the Voltron crossover which is only using Macross characters? You'll note that the version of the Sentinels media being released now is actually not the same as the one they were putting out years back... IINM they've excised any Macross footage that was used in it. Part of the reason they're able to get away with the Sentinels as a re-release is because it's so old and Big West didn't challenge it decades ago, but it's mostly because they actually did make more than a slight effort to redesign the characters and they never got far enough to use the potentially legally contentious designs like the ripoff destroids. It's also worth remembering that 20 years ago, Harmony Gold hadn't yet soured relations with the owners of Macross, so now they're much more cautious about what they use and how they use it to avoid a lawsuit. Comic books are legally merchandise, so that much they're allowed to do under the terms of their license from Tatsunoko. That's also why Harmony Gold used a comic to put every last potentially problematic character who was still recognizable in any way (like Britai and Minmay) into a grave or on a bus before they rolled out the Shadow Chronicles "movie". The only characters who were allowed to remain were ones who'd been redesigned such that they were completely unrecognizable. Edited July 8, 2014 by Seto Kaiba
coronadlux Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 I've read the sentinels books, safe to say that a devil, anover grown teddy bear, and an amazonian flying on a metal pegasus aren't really robotech. Saving world's from the inside, feels like a cross of Homer's odyssey and Dante's infernal. Maybe it should be left alone.
Apollo Leader Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Here's a thought no one else has suggested yet. This might be the last stab that Harmony Gold makes at an animated Robotech feature. After 30 years since Robotech hit the airwaves what do they have to show for? Three episodes of material for a series (The Sentinels) that should have taken off when its popularity was at its peak. One straight-to-video release (The Shadow Chronicles) which is already now 7 years in the past. And then there was the several minutes of new footage added to Love Live Alive to make a Robotech version of it. Then of course there is stuff like Robotech 3000, the Shadow Chronicles sequel still being held up, and any other failed effort to bring a new Robotech animation into production. Now that they are asking for the fans to help finance this new production I think it is in the realm of possibility that this is all a low-risk gauge to determine whether or not Robotech truly has a large/strong enough following for it to be worth pursuing a new video/series. With Robotech failing to gain any traction in regards to animated sequels, I wouldn't be surprised that there is increasing pressure for the Robotech property arm of Harmony Gold to produce... or else. I don't think Robotech itself as a franchise is anywhere near dead. You will continue to see DVD re-releases, new comics, new toys and other merchanidice. But I think that the window of opportunity for a new Robotech animated feature or series is fading into the past.
Seto Kaiba Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Here's a thought no one else has suggested yet. This might be the last stab that Harmony Gold makes at an animated Robotech feature. Actually, I suggested that back on page 1... though I also suggested that it could spell the end for Robotech in general, since one of the few things keeping the fans around is the (false) promise of continuing the story in animation.
Hoptimus Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Actually, I suggested that back on page 1... though I also suggested that it could spell the end for Robotech in general, since one of the few things keeping the fans around is the (false) promise of continuing the story in animation. Pretty much. I am not sure how much more BS the fans left can take. I mean the current management of the Robotech IP have driven it to the underground at this point.
mecha2241 Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 And yet 1,468 people have contributed $80,831 so far. I know they say there's a sucker born every minute, but...
Seto Kaiba Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) And yet 1,468 people have contributed $80,831 so far. I know they say there's a sucker born every minute, but... EDIT: Okay, this post was entirely too maudlin originally... Let's just say that there are a lot of people in the Robotech fandom with really desperately terrible pattern recognition skills... it's too depressing to contemplate the alternative. Edited July 8, 2014 by Seto Kaiba
Scyla Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 So as I have absolutely no feelings about Robotech since I never watched it.... ...I have a question. Robotech is loved by the Fans because it is based on three great to ok Japanese TV shows. HG can't make new based animation based on the three series because they don't have the rights to do so. They only have the distribution rights. So if the new Robotech show is only vaguely based the original series why should fans of Robotech care about a new show if no links to the original are present?
Seto Kaiba Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 So if the new Robotech show is only vaguely based the original series why should fans of Robotech care about a new show if no links to the original are present? Because, after over a decade of being lied to by Harmony Gold, the Robotech fans often mistakenly attribute a lot of things that had been present in the originals to the "creative vision" of Carl Macek... and because, at this point, they're so desperate for a new Robotech ANYTHING that many have discarded any pretense of having standards. That's what the Kickstarter is obviously banking on, that the fans will be SO excited at the prospect of anything new with the Robotech name on it that they'll throw huge sums of money Harmony Gold's way without thinking twice.
skullmilitia Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 If you want to see what your should expect, just pick up a few issues of the Wildstorm Robotech comics by yune. Then when your done crying, start yelling at the kickstarter page.. Watch the retorts by members of RT.com with things like.. and
azrael Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Since Tatsunoko owns Southern Cross and Mospeada, they can reproduce those designs from those 2 shows. They cannot use Macross designs in any new animated feature, only merchandising. They're also trying to attract nostalgic people with the Kickstarter. Which is why I said ask questions. Bring up their past works. Let other people know what they've done before and let people decide if they want to actually donate to this. People here know what it might look like, but others do not.
CoreyD Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Since Tatsunoko owns Southern Cross and Mospeada, they can reproduce those designs from those 2 shows. They cannot use Macross designs in any new animated feature, only merchandising. They're also trying to attract nostalgic people with the Kickstarter. Which is why I said ask questions. Bring up their past works. Let other people know what they've done before and let people decide if they want to actually donate to this. People here know what it might look like, but others do not. Didn't they use the Alpha and Beta/Legioss and Tread in Shadow Chronicles though?
Hoptimus Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Didn't they use the Alpha and Beta/Legioss and Tread in Shadow Chronicles though? Yes because Tatsunoko owns Mospeada and licensed it to HG. That has nothing to do with Macross(Big West).
Dynaman Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Syfy's news feed has an article on this, notice the picture they use... http://www.blastr.com/2014-7-7/studio-turns-crowdfunding-get-new-robotech-series-ground
Seto Kaiba Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Since Tatsunoko owns Southern Cross and Mospeada, they can reproduce those designs from those 2 shows. They cannot use Macross designs in any new animated feature, only merchandising. They're also trying to attract nostalgic people with the Kickstarter. Which is why I said ask questions. Bring up their past works. Let other people know what they've done before and let people decide if they want to actually donate to this. People here know what it might look like, but others do not. Actually, since Big West has at least partial ownership of Southern Cross as well due to their role in financing it, Harmony Gold is either unable or unwilling to risk using intellectual property from that one as well. The only two Southern Cross holdovers that've appeared in new animation have received some pretty heavy makeovers and they've gone well out of their way to avoid showing any Southern Cross mecha and even stuck not!Jeanne into a MOSPEADA riding suit instead of her distinctive arming doublet in their new animation for Love Live Alive. It's just not clear how much of their reluctance to use that material is "We can't", "We don't want to risk it", and "Why would anyone want to?" respectively, since they freely admit that the "Robotech Masters" saga is far and away the least beloved of the fanbase.
Jasonc Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 I want to see this pilot made. I want to see all the people who donated money get pissed when they see what half a mil will get them from HG and a sub par animation fan group. It's one thing to get upset when someone else does something stupid. It's another thing to get upset at what stupidity is done on your dime.
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