Robotech Academy - You want a new Robotech series...?

[Mr March]

If they want Robotech to rise from the dead Harmony has to be willing to piss off their fan base and go the total reboot or total retcon route or total new bastardization story that has nothing to do with Robotech another than the name and transforming robots. Nobody outside of Robotech fans knows what is going on. This is a dying patient. Time to pass it on to some brilliant surgeons with risky ideas that just might work or kill it. Do nothing and the patient still dies.

Dr. House?

I agree, this is exactly the way that Robotech must be looked at. Dead in the water unless extreme changes are made. This kickstarter was everything that Robotech has been for decades; derivative, uninspiring, passionless, incomplete and painfully familiar to the point of contempt. I even argued in other threads that Macross suffers from this, though clearly far and away the patient lives a happier life if we're to keep this analogy going. I think the best thing for Robotech would be to leave Harmony Gold's portfolio and undergo a total reconception at home with another company that actually can deliver a relevant, interesting and passionate production.

[505thAirborne]

Its been a fun ride and 58 pages worth of entertainment, learning and good conversation/banter with you guys! I'd make one last remark about RTA, RTSC, Sentinels or the KS, but everything thats needed to be said has been said with precision, alot of you guys really know your stuff and I thank you for that!

I won't be eating anymore popcorn for awhile!

[CoreyD]

Can we have a big macrossworld group hug now?

[DuelGundam2099]

Hug time!

[Crossboy]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1300298569/under-the-dog - 24 minutes episode.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Crossboy

[HannouHeiki]

They probably kept the vf-x-7 design vague because of the heavy resemblance to the Valkyrie. If they made a big deal out of it they may draw ire from Big West for attempting to create an unlicensed Macross design.

[azrael]

You know, I'm gonna say this.

Carl Macek's vision for Robotech died with him. Carl is no longer around so it's time to move on. Back in the day, this (grabbing someone else's work and editing it together into 1 piece) worked for Carl and co. These days with the internet, the walls of the world are no longer there. When overseas people want to watch Downton Abbey or Doctor Who, people don't want to watch some bastardized version, they want to watch the actual show. Studios know this. When people in China got Transformers: Age of Extinction, they got the actual movie and not something edited together from god-knows-where. The environment that made Robotech doesn't exist anymore. So what is Robotech these days? The KS tells me it's not what it use to be so what is it? Is it something unique or something made from someone else's stuff? If the current "creative team" wants to follow the latter and continue Carl's idea of Robotech, then RT is gonna get smaller. If it's something unique, then they better do something unique (like reboot and make it their own).

[HannouHeiki]

Oh...and another thing...what broke Robotech is the LAM deal. Shadow Rising was probably put on hold because it would be a "movie." Remember, WB has exclusive movie rights. HG couldn't possibly release a movie of their own, even a direct to video one, when WB has the exclusive rights.

By marketing RA as a TV pilot that would only be distributed as a digital download, they were probably hoping to produce something without violating WB's exclusive movie rights. Maybe video distribution would've occurred when WB's movie rights expire.

By giving WB the movie rights, they tied their own hands at creating their own content. They probably bet on WB making a movie where they could ride on it's success.

[Marzan]

For those who mentioned streaming as a way for Macross to evade the HG issue, the problem there is that as long as HG has international rights to the Macross name, they can ask for a share of the pie. Even if they were to stream from Japan on Daisuki, HG would at the very least demand that the steam be geoblocked. It would be interesting to say the least if they tried, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I get the feeling that Big West wouldn't think the effort would be worth the hassle.

[Dynaman]

By marketing RA as a TV pilot that would only be distributed as a digital download, they were probably hoping to produce something without violating WB's exclusive movie rights. Maybe video distribution would've occurred when WB's movie rights expire.

It was going to be DVDs and Blu Rays as well. The movie had no direct impact on the Shadow Rising - if that were the case then Love Live Alive would not be able to have been released either.

[1st Border Red Devil]

Oh...and another thing...what broke Robotech is the LAM deal. Shadow Rising was probably put on hold because it would be a "movie." Remember, WB has exclusive movie rights. HG couldn't possibly release a movie of their own, even a direct to video one, when WB has the exclusive rights.

No, what broke Robotech was the fact that Tommy Yune is an egomaniacal jackass. Funimation was willing to foot the bill for Shadow Rising with the caveat they have creative control (which is not in any way, shape or form unreasonable). It was Tommy that pooched that deal. The simple fact is the man has no vision, direction or passion when it comes to Robotech. And yes, everyone can chuckle and snicker about it, but not utlizing Southern Cross the fullest possible extent (since its basically owned lock, stock and barrel by Tatsunoko/Studio Ammonite and Harmony Gold) is a goddamn crime. Harmony Gold has to MAKE its own marketshare and it takes spending money to make money. Tommy, as Creative Director, pissed away (or allowed to be pissed away) the momentum built in the early 2000s on crap projects like Little White Dragon, Mars Base One and Macross toys that were of lesser quality than those readily available from Japan. Then he followed it up with Shadow Chronicles, which apparently was successful enough for Funimation to want a sequel, and then promptly drove off the only cash source he could have relied upon for continuance of the franchise. This was eventually followed by MOSPEADA toys that just so happened to be of lesser quality than those that were readily available in Japan and Robotech: Love, Live, Alive. This entire mess in part or in full can be laid at the feet of Tommy Yune.

Edited August 8, 2014 by 1st Border Red Devil

[The Shade]

This thread has been a lot of fun. Thanks to the mods for keeping open for so long.

Here's hoping HG's next "great" idea comes along sooner rather than later (I've stopped eating popcorn and am going through withdrawal).

[coronadlux]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1300298569/under-the-dog - 24 minutes episode.

Now THAT is the way to do a kickstarter. Sketches, an opening teaser, the creator had everything laid out. Do I see "Robotech Assasins?"

[jenius]

No, what broke Robotech was the fact that Tommy Yune is an egomaniacal jackass. Funimation was willing to foot the bill for Shadow Rising with the caveat they have creative control (which is not in any way, shape or form unreasonable). It was Tommy that pooched that deal. The simple fact is the man has no vision, direction or passion when it comes to Robotech. And yes, everyone can chuckle and snicker about it, but not utlizing Southern Cross the fullest possible extent (since its basically owned lock, stock and barrel by Tatsunoko/Studio Ammonite and Harmony Gold) is a goddamn crime. Harmony Gold has to MAKE its own marketshare and it takes spending money to make money. Tommy, as Creative Director, pissed away (or allowed to be pissed away) the momentum built in the early 2000s on crap projects like Little White Dragon, Mars Base One and Macross toys that were of lesser quality than those readily available from Japan. Then he followed it up with Shadow Chronicles, which apparently was successful enough for Funimation to want a sequel, and then promptly drove off the only cash source he could have relied upon for continuance of the franchise. This was eventually followed by MOSPEADA toys that just so happened to be of lesser quality than those that were readily available in Japan and Robotech: Love, Live, Alive. This entire mess in part or in full can be laid at the feet of Tommy Yune.

How do we know what Funimation was offering?

[Seto Kaiba]

No, what broke Robotech was the fact that Tommy Yune is an egomaniacal jackass.

Honestly, I think it was "broken" a long time before that... what arguably inflicted the mortal wound on Robotech was the collapse of both the Robotech animated movie and Robotech II: the Sentinels planned series. With that, Robotech had effectively lost its modest momentum, and every effort since then has either been one of attempted resuscitation (Robotech 3000, Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles, Robotech Academy) or simply putting the corpse on display like an old-timey circus freakshow (the comics, the novels, Battlecry and Invasion, the Voltron crossover).

It was a lost cause long before Tommy Yune ever got involved, partly because of bad luck, and partly because Harmony Gold's understanding of its audience and the industry it was in were a lot less firm than they believed it was.

Tommy's involvement is simply that of the grave robber desecrating the corpse in the hopes of finding something that'll earn his gang a quick buck, because... let's not kid ourselves... they don't seem to have seriously believed that any of their new releases were ever going to really make Robotech a big-name title.

Funimation was willing to foot the bill for Shadow Rising with the caveat they have creative control (which is not in any way, shape or form unreasonable). It was Tommy that pooched that deal.

Eh... while it might be convenient to blame Tommy, it's doubtful he actually has that kind of authority. Harmony Gold staffers like Yune and McKeever have previously admitted (on Robotech.com no less) that they're forced to contend with a tedious and very unwieldy approvals process for pretty much any decision regarding the company's money or property. Tommy might be in what we could call nominal control of the franchise, but he still has to get approvals from above to actually do anything.

The simple fact is the man has no vision, direction or passion when it comes to Robotech.

Or is he simply operating under constraints imposed by senior management and legal that blinker and fetter everything he does?

Even McKeever has made no secret of the fact that Harmony Gold's "top men" consider anything Robotech that does not have a direct and immediate ROI to be a waste of time. Pandering to the majority (or lowest common denominator if you'd prefer to think of it that way) with a lineup of mostly Macross-derived products and stories that tie into familiar designs and characters from their most popular saga is the obvious, slam-dunk choice to quick and easy profit.

Robotech is, after all, a nostalgia-driven property.

And yes, everyone can chuckle and snicker about it, but not utilizing Southern Cross the fullest possible extent (since its basically owned lock, stock and barrel by Tatsunoko/Studio Ammonite and Harmony Gold) is a goddamn crime.

The question then becomes... is not utilizing the least-loved of Robotech's component series indicative of a lack of vision, or is it simple pragmatism motivated by the consistently negative reactions they've gotten from fans when the company has asked them about various aspects of the Masters Saga?

I realize it upsets you, but I don't think it can genuinely be written off as "Tommy is the root of all evils", though he wasn't exactly subtle (or anything that could be mistaken for it at a hundred paces in bad light) about pandering to the majority by demonizing the Southern Cross Army.

Harmony Gold has to MAKE its own marketshare and it takes spending money to make money. Tommy, as Creative Director, pissed away (or allowed to be pissed away) the momentum built in the early 2000s on crap projects like Little White Dragon, Mars Base One and Macross toys that were of lesser quality than those readily available from Japan. Then he followed it up with Shadow Chronicles, which apparently was successful enough for Funimation to want a sequel, and then promptly drove off the only cash source he could have relied upon for continuance of the franchise.

Eh... if I had to point to one thing that I honestly think could be called a flaw in your reasoning, it would be the assumption that the management at Harmony Gold actually WANTS to make Robotech successful. Much of what they've done has been indicative of minimum-effort attempts to keep the franchise limping along by pandering to the nostalgic while offering a fair amount of relatively blatant evidence that they're just waiting for someone to offer to take the mess off their hands entirely.

The problem is, nobody seems to actually WANT it... at least, not badly enough to pay the absurd price they probably think it's worth.

[EXO]

Now THAT is the way to do a kickstarter. Sketches, an opening teaser, the creator had everything laid out. Do I see "Robotech Assasins?"

I still wish Academy would have been funded. And hopefully this one will be too... It would have been great to have a side by side screening... lol.

Thanks to crossboy for posting that!

[coronadlux]

Academy is not a really bad idea. HG's lack of honesty, and their lack to follow through with anything solid just didn't evoke the confidence in me to donate.

Their childish "enemy spy" tier showed their lack

of professionalism that has been there for decades.

[EXO]

That animation for under the dog is worth every penny if they fund it. If they said that each episode cost that much to produce if believe that too. I'm actually thinking about pledging.

[coronadlux]

Had they been more forthcoming and actually had answered questions from people in a timely manner, I would think they would have gotten more out of people.

One part that bothers me is that HG likes to dance around questions and pretend they gave a satisfactory answer.

If HG comes out and says "hey guys, here is what our legal standings are..." and Ho on and let the fans know what they have rights to and what they don't and what lies in that grayish area, then, we all would know facts and comment accordingly.

I've read people state that HG has rights to ALL macross, others state that it's only the 3 shows that make up Robotech.

It's about time they made it official to their fans that don't have law degrees, or even a higher vocabulary.

[skullmilitia]

I agree with Azrael, We don't need more Macross or more Robotech via HG. It's 2014, we have multiple sites that stream all the series.

A new series coming from the original creator, who still has his heart firmly in place to do the best he feels it can be.

You can get the DVD's easily, BR release with english subs are now available for the Frontier movies. Most of the streaming

series have english subs.

I think HG is irrelevant at this point. With the closing of this thread, shall also be HG's purpose in the market place.

[Jefuemon]

Until then I'm content on waiting for the new Macross series whenever that comes out. Hopefully, I'll post more here in the future if I'm welcomed in.....

(mainly for the opening verse)

[Kyp Durron]

Goodbye RT!

Edited August 9, 2014 by Kyp Durron

[renegadeleader1]

[HannouHeiki]

I still think they are blocked from making any "movie" due to WB's rights. They said as much when the deal was first made.

I think LLA was acceptable because it is something they already had distribution rights to. Even though it was sold as a "new" movie, it is simply a dub of old footage they already had. It is not that much different than them cleaning up and releasing another DVD boxset of the original series.

There is so little new footage I think it was allowed and interpreted by WB as them putting out something they already had video rights to.

[EXO]

Even if they made a movie, it won't be Robotech and it'll cater to a totally different audience. Unless you're a new fan of that movie, the existing fans will be rejoicing it because of the brand. It would be so far removed.

[JB0]

I've read people state that HG has rights to ALL macross, others state that it's only the 3 shows that make up Robotech.

It's about time they made it official to their fans that don't have law degrees, or even a higher vocabulary.

HG CLAIMS they have exclusive worldwide rights to Macross, so that IS their explanation of the issue.

They've toed this line ever since Manga's Mac+ release made it clear to them that Macross was a viable property. But never before that.

They claim the only reason MacII and Mac+ came out is that no one was minding the store.

Never mind that the franchise was pretty much at it's peak when MacII came out, and Palladium MADE a Macross II RPG book under license from US Renditions WHILE DOING BUSINESS WITH HG.

There's no way HG could NOT know someone else had licensed MacII.

And of course, HG ignores that MULTIPLE companies released DYRL while Robotech was IN IT'S INITIAL TELEVISION RUN. Because that's not mainstream knowledge, so they can pretend it never happened.

And that's why HG doesn't make it clear exactly what they own with relation to Macross rights.

What WE know, from following the Tatsunoko VS Big West suit(which confirmed what we were already pretty sure about), is that as a sublicensor of Tatsunoko, HG CAN'T have exclusive worldwide rights to Macross, because Tatsunoko only has distribution rights to the original TV series.

Edited August 9, 2014 by JB0

[Desty_Nova]

Sources can't agree on whether the sdf distribution license is worldwide excluding japan, or excluding asia. Looking at the availability of macross products in asia we can infer that it's the latter. In that case hg would be blatantly lying about what territories they control when they say "outside japan" rendering their entire statement unreliable.

[EXO]

Tatsanuko only has merchandising rights to the original Macross and DYRL. HG is blocking the derivatives by trademarking the name Macross outside of Japan.

[GU-11]

HG is blocking the derivatives by trademarking the name Macross outside of Japan.

How did they get away with something like that?

[azrael]

The court docs are very specific with what they cover. Anyone who says they're not are repeating the company line, never read the documents, or never sat with lawyers.

How did they get away with something like that?

They trademarked as soon as Big West won their side of the case. They were awarded the trademark because they were "first-to-use" the trademark.

[JB0]

Tatsanuko only has merchandising rights to the original Macross and DYRL. HG is blocking the derivatives by trademarking the name Macross outside of Japan.

And claiming they "own the rights" and suing anyone that looks at them funny. Even before they filed the trademark.