Robotech Academy - You want a new Robotech series...?

[coronadlux]

So glad this kept me busy at work. Thanks for the popcorn Exo, the unknown facts (unknown to me) Seto, and everyone else who made me laugh and cringe. This thread was fun.

[The Shade]

What I find funny is how some of the RT fanatics went all conspiratorial and blamed the Macross fans for this failure. I mean, it's not like anyone here has any power to influence anything that went on in that kickstarter.

I mean, the only people on this board with any real power are Shawn & Graham... who have been mysteriously silent during this whole thread...

Omg, they are the Masons/Illuminati/Skulls who are running this whole sabotage of the KS from the background.

I'm onto to you guys

[EXO]

No Homers club.

[DuelGundam2099]

If you guys really want to give away your money give it to Colossal Kaiju Combat. It is a series of video games coming up from Sunstone Games spearheaded by Simon Strange who has made several giant monster games including the Godzilla Atari trilogy and Rampage: Total Destruction. Every 6 months we have sponsorships involving raffles to see 48-9 fan-made monsters get their own trading cards and some time this month the free Kaijuland Battles game will be released.

http://kaijucombat.com/wiki/doku.php

We even have best selling author Jeremy Robinson licensing his Project Nemesis novels! If you guy want next sponsorship I could make a Macross World Robo.

[Seto Kaiba]

What I find funny is how some of the RT fanatics went all conspiratorial and blamed the Macross fans for this failure. I mean, it's not like anyone here has any power to influence anything that went on in that kickstarter.

They've been doing that one for ages though... for a while, they were blaming ME for somehow orchestrating/masterminding the spate of Harmony Gold-issued Cease-and-Desists sent to fan film groups.

[Perrych]

To be fair, hearing how many folks have gloated that the contributions were inflated by Macross fans who planned to take them back at the least second, I would say that there was an effort by some folks to do more than just talk bad about HG. Sure, it would only hurt HG if the real fans were supporting the cause but a mass exodus would almost certainly undermine the effort. It's more psychological than economic - if people think RA is good, why contribute any more? So, while not every Macross fan is nefarious, some were up to no good.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

when is this locking?

[Moly_Sigang]

Before this thread gets locked, i wanna ask, has HG made an official reveal of the VF-2 looking Veritech? Of all the mechanical designs they teased at SDCC, this one has not been publicize yet.

[505thAirborne]

Before this thread gets locked, i wanna ask, has HG made an official reveal of the VF-2 looking Veritech? Of all the mechanical designs they teased at SDCC, this one has not been publicize yet.

I was just checking the KS page and the "Veritech" sketch they posted isn't there anymore... perhaps its on the actual RT site. An old HS friend of mine works for HG, I wonder if he has an official sketch of it....?

[coronadlux]

Not officially. A quick Google search yielded 2 images, one looks like orgus design and the other an alpha. But nothing on robotech.co

[renegadeleader1]

The VF-X-7 was never released as part of the kickstarter. The only images of it are stills from Memo's comic con video people have captured.

[Mommar]

What's this supposed VF-2 thing you guys are talking about now? I'd like to see it.

[DuelGundam2099]

More of a trust worth gold standard than HG at this point.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

please close the thread. latecomers killed it.

[renegadeleader1]

Mommar I think this is the veritech they're talking about.

[505thAirborne]

Thats the one, and not a good looking design either.

[anime52k8]

it's decidedly 'meh' based on the blurry potatograph of a low resolution power point slide. that said I'd save the real hate and vitriol for the unlikely event that we ever saw a half decent photo of what it actually looks like.

[Tom Bateman]

So, what happens now?

I imagine there will be an important meeting at Harmony Gold in the very near future.

Just as they needed permission to initiate the Kickstarter, Tommy, Steve, or Kevin didn't pull the plug on the Kickstarter on their own. They might have been prescient enough to see the futility of continuing any further, but they don't have the authority to make that call on their own. Whether it came from Team Robotech or not, the higher-ups at HG chose to end the Kickstarter immediately (this past Saturday).

This Kickstarter didn't just happen... it was the result of a lot of lobbying and advocacy on the part of Team Robotech.

Frank Agrama is many things, but he is no fool, especially when it comes to money (there's a reason he's a multimillionaire). I imagine a lot of assurances and brash confidence was used to convince Frank and others at HG that Robotech Academy Kickstarter was a can't miss opportunity, a slam dunk; ("just look at the Robotech RPG Tactics Kickstarter... they only asked for $70,000, but got $1.4 MILLION!!! We can't lose! The Robotech fanboys are going to just throw money at us! They'll say, SHUT UP AND TAKE OUR MONEY!")

This mindset explains the smug arrogance you read in Kevin's posts in the Kickstarter thread on Robotech.com and then the addition of the "Enemy Spy" level on the Kickstarter page. I think the failure of the Kickstarter must have come as a complete shock to Kevin and Tommy.

When they first started to realize that things weren't going well, there was a lot of scrambling to put the best face on things, first rolling out additional levels, and then other rewards that look like they were thought up on the fly (Robotech Academy Sweatshirts, really?) All things that were very poorly thought out, and unplanned for. Team Robotech probably assumed they would have cleared their goal in the first week, maybe two at the most. "Don't worry, Frank, just sit back and watch the money roll in..."

2,284 backers on Kickstarter is a paltry display of support. Talking about $194,574 would only matter if it was actually deposited in Harmony Gold's bank account. The end result is a project that only managed to meet 38% of its intended goal.

In comparison, Star Trek: Axanar, a fan film project, has initiated its second Kickstarter and even though it is only two weeks old, it has already surpassed Robotech Academy's grand total and nearly doubled its already met goal.

Star Trek: Axanar - 14 days (Active - 17 days left)
2,703 backers - $198,463 (Goal: $100,000)

Robotech Academy - 29 days (Canceled)
2,284 backers - $194,574 (Goal: $500,000)

I would hate to be the person whose idea this Kickstarter was...

I imagine Tommy and Kevin have prepared their list of excuses for the failure of the Kickstarter. I hope HG will see their self-serving comments for what they are.

There is no way to spin this as something good or positive. This Kickstarter has been a complete and utter catastrophe, and a humiliating embarrassment for everyone involved, including all of the actors involved, Carl Macek's memory, and even Frank Agrama himself.

The ramifications of this disaster could be very significant. The failure of this Kickstarter is not limited to just adding Robotech Academy to the already sizable junk pile of unfinished RT projects. It shows before the entire world, that Robotech, in its current state, is no longer a viable property.

Type in Robotech in Google and the fourth result is Robotech Academy. You cannot delete your failed Kickstarter, so the evidence of this failure will remain a black mark on the franchise. Any potential investor or licensee is going to see the number of backers and the amount of money pledged in this Kickstarter and will factor that into their analysis of Robotech's worth and how much they should offer to pay as a licensee.

The damage here isn't just a blow for PR and marketing, it puts Robotech's very future in serious question.

It's really sad that it's come to this. Yeah, there have been a few idiots who are ranting about Macross fans and critics ruining this campaign, but they are vastly overestimating that influence. This campaign failed because it failed to convince and inspire Robotech fans who chose to not support a project they simply did not believe in.

This show meant a lot to a lot of people, and it was the gateway into anime and Macross for many fans here on this website. Robotech deserved better, the actors deserved better, and the fans deserved better... much better.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Tom Bateman

[jenius]

Frank should:

1) Fire the staff

2) Reduce 'robotech.com' to a web store and infopedia

3) Put Robotech into a reissue and defend property status until he dies

I would say "maybe 10 years from now someone would pick up the franchise, dust it off, and reboot it like so many other things have been rebooted" but with Robotech that doesn't make any sense. With all the changes you need to make it all fit together seamlessly and avoid rights issues, any person considering doing this would be way better off just making their own show.

[taksraven]

I can't imagine this shite being rebooted EVER.

[skullmilitia]

Frank should:

1) Fire the staff

2) Reduce 'robotech.com' to a web store and infopedia

3) Put Robotech into a reissue and defend property status until he dies

4) Partner with a new company to make good merchandise that people will actually buy.

5) Let the license run out and focus on actual good investments.

I fixed.

[Atharun]

I have to agree with Tom on this. The only logical path forward seems to be a shake up in the Robotech staff and it has to start at the top. A multimillionaire does not get that way by accident (unless they are born into it or win the lottery). As a business man, Agrama has to look at the staff and evaluate what damage and devaluing to his "property" has been done. From the extras on The Shadow Chronicles and some of the small vids/extras he appears in, Agrama seems to have a soft spot for Tommy Yune but at what point do dollars and sense outweigh that?

[terry the lone wolf]

So, what happens now?

I imagine there will be an important meeting at Harmony Gold in the very near future.

Just as they needed permission to initiate the Kickstarter, Tommy, Steve, or Kevin didn't pull the plug on the Kickstarter on their own. They might have been prescient enough to see the futility of continuing any further, but they don't have the authority to make that call on their own. Whether it came from Team Robotech or not, the higher-ups at HG chose to end the Kickstarter immediately (this past Saturday).

This Kickstarter didn't just happen... it was the result of a lot of lobbying and advocacy on the part of Team Robotech.

Frank Agrama is many things, but he is no fool, especially when it comes to money (there's a reason he's a multimillionaire). I imagine a lot of assurances and brash confidence was used to convince Frank and others at HG that Robotech Academy Kickstarter was a can't miss opportunity, a slam dunk; ("just look at the Robotech RPG Tactics Kickstarter... they only asked for $70,000, but got $1.4 MILLION!!! We can't lose! The Robotech fanboys are going to just throw money at us! They'll say, SHUT UP AND TAKE OUR MONEY!")

This mindset explains the smug arrogance you read in Kevin's posts in the Kickstarter thread on Robotech.com and then the addition of the "Enemy Spy" level on the Kickstarter page. I think the failure of the Kickstarter must have come as a complete shock to Kevin and Tommy.

When they first started to realize that things weren't going well, there was a lot of scrambling to put the best face on things, first rolling out additional levels, and then other rewards that look like they were thought up on the fly (Robotech Academy Sweatshirts, really?) All things that were very poorly thought out, and unplanned for. Team Robotech probably assumed they would have cleared their goal in the first week, maybe two at the most. "Don't worry, Frank, just sit back and watch the money roll in..."

2,284 backers on Kickstarter is a paltry display of support. Talking about $194,574 would only matter if it was actually deposited in Harmony Gold's bank account. The end result is a project that only managed to meet 38% of its intended goal.

In comparison, Star Trek: Axanar, a fan film project, has initiated its second Kickstarter and even though it is only two weeks old, it has already surpassed Robotech Academy's grand total and nearly doubled its already met goal.

Star Trek: Axanar - 14 days (Active - 17 days left)

2,703 backers - $198,463 (Goal: $100,000)

Robotech Academy - 29 days (Canceled)

2,284 backers - $194,574 (Goal: $500,000)

I would hate to be the person whose idea this Kickstarter was...

I imagine Tommy and Kevin have prepared their list of excuses for the failure of the Kickstarter. I hope HG will see their self-serving comments for what they are.

There is no way to spin this as something good or positive. This Kickstarter has been a complete and utter catastrophe, and a humiliating embarrassment for everyone involved, including all of the actors involved, Carl Macek's memory, and even Frank Agrama himself.

The ramifications of this disaster could be very significant. The failure of this Kickstarter is not limited to just adding Robotech Academy to the already sizable junk pile of unfinished RT projects. It shows before the entire world, that Robotech, in its current state, is no longer a viable property.

Type in Robotech in Google and the fourth result is Robotech Academy. You cannot delete your failed Kickstarter, so the evidence of this failure will remain a black mark on the franchise. Any potential investor or licensee is going to see the number of backers and the amount of money pledged in this Kickstarter and will factor that into their analysis of Robotech's worth and how much they should offer to pay as a licensee.

The damage here isn't just a blow for PR and marketing, it puts Robotech's very future in serious question.

It's really sad that it's come to this. Yeah, there have been a few idiots who are ranting about Macross fans and critics ruining this campaign, but they are vastly overestimating that influence. This campaign failed because it failed to convince and inspire Robotech fans who chose to not support a project they simply did not believe in.

This show meant a lot to a lot of people, and it was the gateway into anime and Macross for many fans here on this website. Robotech deserved better, the actors deserved better, and the fans deserved better... much better.

I think the real problem is..They just asked for too much money. Maybe $200,000 or $250,000 would have been better..If you look at the money the Star Trek fan film generated and what Academy generated they're very close. The overall goal of $500,000 was little outrageous..

Edited August 7, 2014 by terry the lone wolf

[Atharun]

While I think the Kickstarer was poorly done in many ways, one thing I believe was a plus was something behind the scenes. When I asked Kevin who was doing the character designs , as they were not the typical Tommy Yune design/art, he mentioned a group named the Digital Art Chefs was doing the design. After looking them up their work is pretty good and after speaking to a few people it seems they are reputable. They seem to be a group of artists that do anything from consulting to full fledged design production. here is their site for any of those interested.

It reminds of how HG hired Blacksheep Productions (another group or artists that do design work together) to do design work for Robotech 3000. I have included a link for them as well. (Their Voltron work looks pretty B.A.)

http://digitalartchefs.com/about.php

http://www.blacksheepproductions.net/portfolios/blacksheep/robotech-3000/

[VF-15 Banshee]

I don't think this matters much Atharun; Academy is done and I don't think there are going to be any more major projects forthcoming.

As for any RT fans reading this, I truly, sincerely hope that you get something that eventually is worthy of Robotech... preferably without HG.

Signing off.

[Marzan]

Thanks for your post Tom. It's interesting to read the take of someone who actually knows and has worked with some of the people involved.

I cannot imagine the failure of this Kickstarter not having some sort of consequence. HG is not some super-conglomerate or government office that can have a group of people earning guaranteed salaries and not providing tangible results without it affecting the bottom line. If Agrama is really serious about keeping Robotech alive, he should replace the staff he has and outsource any production to a studio that actually has a succesful track record doing this kind of thing.

I still think that beyond my wishful thinking, keeping the international rights of the Macross/UN-Spacy names is not a good move for Harmony Gold. It serves as lightning rod for bad PR against the company which generates a backlash to anything they do from casual fans. Moreover, those copyrights don't actually make them any money because Big West won't release anything outside Japan anyway while HG is squatting on those rights. Big West can keep on trucking with Macross with the Japanese market only.

HG should just sell those rights off to someone who can work with Big West, while keeping the SDFM rights they got through Tatsunoko back in the day which allow them to keep marketing their Robotech stuff. And with the money the get for the rights they can actually finance something worthwhile.

[TangledThorns]

As one of the token investors here I am annoyed the project is cancelled. I don't have the hate for HG that most here do because I'd hate to see the property fall into worse hands.

[JB0]

As one of the token investors here I am annoyed the project is cancelled. I don't have the hate for HG that most here do because I'd hate to see the property fall into worse hands.

I'm not convinced there ARE worse hands available. It's been a constant downward spiral of incompetence, mismanagement, and war on the fanbase for probably two decades now.

I didn't invest. Not because I hate Robotech, but because there was zero chance of me getting a return on my investment. I WANT to see Robotech be a viable, if not necessarily thriving, title. But it won't happen without someone new in charge.

It's all been downhill roughly since they "suddenly realized" they owned all of the Macross franchise outside Japan and started suing everyone and registering trademarks they don't use in an attempt to prevent anyone from gaining access to the cartoons that Robotech is largely responsible for them wanting to see in the first place.

Edited August 7, 2014 by JB0

[cypherxv]

All in all I'm glad it failed. While I do respect that RT did get me into macross HG's actions over the years have weaned me off of RT. Long live macross!!!

[Seto Kaiba]

Mommar I think this is the veritech they're talking about.

Yeah, though that's not even a design original to Robotech Academy... it's actually a reuse of one of the preliminary concepts that Creavision developed once they received the cease-and-desist from Harmony Gold and started trying to redevelop their Valkyrie Project fan film into an original IP.

I have to agree with Tom on this. The only logical path forward seems to be a shake up in the Robotech staff and it has to start at the top. A multimillionaire does not get that way by accident (unless they are born into it or win the lottery). As a business man, Agrama has to look at the staff and evaluate what damage and devaluing to his "property" has been done. From the extras on The Shadow Chronicles and some of the small vids/extras he appears in, Agrama seems to have a soft spot for Tommy Yune but at what point do dollars and sense outweigh that?

Really, considering that they've tried to do exactly that once before and it landed them in this current mess, I don't think shaking up the staff and starting from the top is going to solve anything. The franchise's reputation is SO dire that nobody with any real qualifications would touch it with a ten light year pole (hence why the people allegedly associated with the Robotech live action project have now reached the level of industry nonentities), and with failure virtually guaranteed for any new project, having an enormously controversial and stigmatized franchise like Robotech on your resume probably own't inspire confidence in a future employer either.

Also, there's the slight problem that Robotech has a very small audience who are obsessively devoted to the exact way things exist in the "original" series. The odds of drawing in a new audience are somewhere between slim and none, and they can no longer afford to alienate their existing fan base by scrapping the one thing keeping their captive audience captive... the minor, tenuous connections to the original series and Macross in particular.

I'm not convinced there ARE worse hands available. It's been a constant downward spiral of incompetence, mismanagement, and war on the fanbase for probably two decades now.

Barring some Pet Sematary-style shenanigans involving Ed Wood's corpse, I don't think there are worse hands... er... on hand.

They've run it into the ground so hard that even Uwe Boll looks like greener pastures.

[Mr March]

The ramifications of this disaster could be very significant. The failure of this Kickstarter is not limited to just adding Robotech Academy to the already sizable junk pile of unfinished RT projects. It shows before the entire world, that Robotech, in its current state, is no longer a viable property.

This show meant a lot to a lot of people, and it was the gateway into anime and Macross for many fans here on this website. Robotech deserved better, the actors deserved better, and the fans deserved better... much better.

To be honest, I think the dubious economic viability of the Robotech IP under Harmony Gold has been apparent for years. The failure of this kickstarter is simply the mechanism by which that perception was brought into sharp focus in a very public manner. I think our words echo each other in this respect; it didn't have to be this way. Robotech fans - indeed, NO fans of any kind - deserve this kind of treatment nor do they deserve abuse of their adoration and nostalgia for their favorite entertainment. I can only hope real change follows this disaster.

As one of the token investors here I am annoyed the project is cancelled. I don't have the hate for HG that most here do because I'd hate to see the property fall into worse hands.

See, this is the kind of post that really disheartens me, leaving me to feel my empathy has been wasted. It also gives creedence to critics that tell me I shouldn't bother offering any support to Robotech fans. To even consider that another company could do far worse at managing the Robotech IP than Harmony Gold is to continue to deny reality. If Harmony Gold isn't already known as the bottom of the barrel, I'm at a total loss to offer any perspective about this company. At this point, even a live action adaptation of Robotech by Uwe Boll would be a step up from anything Harmony Gold has done.

Like I said, this relationship between Harmony Gold and Robotech fans is truly abuse. Torture. Cruel and unusual punishment. No other words can describe it and no other words should. Whether intentional or not, the arrogance/incompetence of Harmony Gold will continue to abuse Robotech fans that allow it.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Mr March

[azrael]

I can't imagine this shite being rebooted EVER.

I would say it's ripened enough for a reboot. But I said that back in 2007 when the deal for the LAM took off. It's probably rotting now.

If you've read How-To guides for Kickstarter, most say start low. They should have low-balled the goal and then added stretch goals. They shot high and ended up below the 40% mark.

They should have used SDCC to promote the KS. But it sounded like they did the opposite.

If I was Papa-Frank, I'd look at either selling off the property or getting rid of Tommy and/or Kev. Steve probably isn't that involved except running the web store so I'd consider his job safe. The KS should be the icing on this cake of lackluster. If the KS didn't say anything about Robotech, I honestly don't know what would.

[Knight26]

IIRC Carl's original plan for "Robotech" was to go over to Japan, buy the distro rights to various mecha shows and redub them similar to Starblazer/SBC Yamato and the old Force 5 Animes. IT was the networks who came back and said that the shows weren't long enough, and demanded that they be stitched together with a common storyline. That ended up creating the Robotech we know and loathe, but that did act as the gateway drug for many of us.

What HG should do is go back to that original model. There was a sign that might do that a few years ago when they allowed the release of SDF Macross, SDC Southern Cross, and Mospeada, but then it went no where and they used that as an excuse to bring back Robotech as it was. Why not make the Robotech IP the focal point for bringing mecha shows over to the US? More than that, for brining merchendise assiociated with those shows as well?

I know I might be onboard if Frank did the following:

1) Let the "creative staff" at HG go.

2) Apologize to the fans of Robotech and associated Series and put them into reissue, maybe get them back on TV, but as their original series, not Robotech. So we get Robotech: SDF Macross, et al...

3) Apologize to Big West and try to strike a deal to bring the rest of the Macross IP over, maybe even to the point of getting Macross 7 and Frontier on American TV, just dubbed with western voice talent (good with the bad folks).

4) Start bringing over other mecha shows that have been largely ignored in the US, or other military themed shows that have fallen to the wayside or fallen out of distribution. It would be an uphill battle with all the other distributors, but it could work.

5) Then start making an entirely new robotech series, seperated from the original, or even do a proper Mospeada sequel.

[jenius]

Don't forget Tatsunoko, Robotech's existence hinges on that relationship, that's whyHG can't make nice with BW. HG would need tats and BW to make nice and that will never happen.

[Apollo Leader]

It's all been downhill roughly since they "suddenly realized" they owned all of the Macross franchise outside Japan and started suing everyone and registering trademarks they don't use in an attempt to prevent anyone from gaining access to the cartoons that Robotech is largely responsible for them wanting to see in the first place.

This among a number of other factors led me out from Macross/Robotech being any kind of serious hobby or interest for me about five or six years ago. I don't think I have spent a penny on anything carrying the Macross or Robotech name on it since about 2008. Just so much unhappiness, frustration, and disappointment. Much of that started back in July 2000 when I got an e-mail from Kevin Lam (Valkyrie Exchange) saying that HG was blocking the Toycom/Yamato Macross Plus toy release.

Anyway we'll see if this episode leads to any kind of positive change or not, for Macross or Robotech fans alike.