azrael Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 Very interesting. Aside from the costs and promised content, just glancing at the two begs two questions: - why doesn't the RT one have preproduction art? (If it does, why isn't it more obvious?) - where is all that extra money going to? Hollywood has been operating on a series pilot first, green-lit TV series later system for decades. Shouldn't a pilot cost less than a finished, complete release, with all lose ends tied up? (Or be more comparably priced, given exchange rates and so forth?) Well, there is a definite cost to a project. I've seen the price from $30,000 to $1M per episode of some cartoons in looking around. The Simpsons and Family Guy costs ~$2-million per episode with majority of the costs going to the voice actors and the producers. And if HG is using the same group of people they sent a C&D letter to for the VFX, then they are going overseas for the VFX, which is the norm these days. That should lower the costs, in theory. But, if an independent studio in Japan is making their own IP for $150,000 for a 40-minute animation, it should give one a few ideas of how costs differs in certain parts of the world. Now I've never seen Little Witch Academia-anime short, but you can watch it on Crunchyroll. It looks very well done for traditionally made short. Apparently, they secured enough funding to make a 2nd 20-minute episode. They went to Kickstarter to get additional funding to extended it to 40 minutes. So ~$300,000+ to cover 40-minutes of production. Their total fundraising for that second episode ended at $625,518. So ~$300,000+ for the show, and the leftover for behind-the-scenes work and commentary. If this project reaches its goal + change, and the project fails to take off after the pilot, you cannot ask for your money back. It states right there on the project page that they hope to build off this single 24-minute show. What if that doesn't happen? I'm not going to tell people how to spend their money, but they better be prepared if it doesn't come out like they wanted. If one donates to this, no matter the amount, you have a right to see their progress. You have a right to know that your money is being spent properly since you invested in this project. (Kickstarter Basics: Accountability) They posted what...10-seconds of CGI and 3-minutes of talking. You should expect something more than a few Powerpoint presentations at every convention they attend. If you invest in this project, you should be asking questions and not blindly jumping in just because it has Robotech slapped on it. Ask them questions. Kickstarter encourages it. Roy pointed out their DVD sales. Shouldn't they have enough money from merchandise? What about those other projects? It looks like the same people are in charge of this as the last few. What happened with those projects? You are allowed to ask this stuff if you want to pledge money. Looking around the interwebs, I see way too many comments about Macross. This isn't about Macross. Robotech is HG's copyright and they can do whatever they want with that. It's with their previous RT projects and releases where I would start asking questions and ranting. What happened with their last ultimate-super gold collection set of the original RT release? Why so many collection sets in the past few years? Then you can start asking about this fundraising goal and the who/what/where/why about how they plan on spending this money for 24-minutes of animation.
UN Spacy Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 Oh gosh...can't believe I'm gonna watch this train wreck.
Einherjar Posted July 6, 2014 Author Posted July 6, 2014 I'd listen to azarel folks. Set aside all that nostalgia and start asking all the important questions about this thing you've supported that you should have done over the last 29 years.
Renato Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 As I remember, "Robotech Academy" was the working title for the N64 (or rather, "Ultra64"!) "Crystal Dreams" game.
Twoducks Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 I'm not into Robotech bashing but this looks more like a cheap way to take peoples money than a serious first step into a series. No concept art or anything you see on any serious kickstarter. Just pay up because it says "Robotech" lol. The running time of that fan made RT prequel HG killed was longer and they didn't ask for a dime.
Scyla Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 I think they need funding to reestablish the death grip for Macross once the current license runs out. So they thought we create a Kickstarter to raise money and divide it into two pots. One for making the promised episode ($150k) and the rest to pay Big West ($350k+). They probably think this will buy them enough time to come up with something genuine. On the other hand why not bring Macross Frontier over as Robotech Academy? There was an academy where pilots and songstresses where trained in that show.... ..even with new names, terrible US pop-music and a godawful English dub it will probably better than what they are planning to do with this KS.
Mr March Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 (edited) It's telling that HG won't spend 500K on a license they own.. If some Robotech fans are seriously considering a donation to this kickstarter, they should be thinking about this sentence skullmilitia wrote. The legitimate Kickstarters are crowdfunding projects for individuals without corporations, their own money or initial investment. These are people that either have no company or will start a company via the kickstarter itself. That have no income from business operations and don't own franchises or receive royalties. The Ouya Video Game Console kickstarter. The Veronica Mars Film Adaptation kickstarter. The kickstarter for indie film "Wish I was Here" by "Scrubs" actor Zack Braff. And of course the most successful kickstarter to date, the Star Citizen Video Game by Wing Commander/Privateer veteran game maker Chris Roberts. These are legitimate kickstarters. Harmony Gold is an established and long-running company (based primarly upon a property ownership business) that has owned and allegedly "profited" from their Robotech IP for decades. For a company like HG to publically request donation tells you this company is NOT a business. It means they cannot obtain financing because investors don't believe in them or their product. It means their own company won't commit to funding a Robotech IP project that they own! It means they've run a company for decades that cannot - or are not willing to - fund their own business ventures. A 20+ year entertainment media company that cannot produce it's own entertainment media. That's not a business; that should be called defunct. Seriously, this Robotech kickstarter is as far from a competent business as it gets. Fans should look at this with their eyes wide open. Edited July 6, 2014 by Mr March
technoblue Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 Looking around the interwebs, I see way too many comments about Macross. This isn't about Macross. Robotech is HG's copyright and they can do whatever they want with that. It's with their previous RT projects and releases where I would start asking questions and ranting. What happened with their last ultimate-super gold collection set of the original RT release? Why so many collection sets in the past few years? Then you can start asking about this fundraising goal and the who/what/where/why about how they plan on spending this money for 24-minutes of animation. Well put. There is a legal demarcation separating Robotech and Macross properties. If Robotech fans really want something new out of the Macekverse, then they need to focus on what made Robotech different. There's a slim possibility that a Kickstarter could be one method to turn Robotech into its own thing, but (and this is a big BUT) those involved would have to be willing to follow in Kawamori's lead and leave the original SDF Macross story alone. Why not try and come up with something new and completely Robotech that doesn't rely on nostalgia or another property? On the other hand why not bring Macross Frontier over as Robotech Academy? There was an academy where pilots and songstresses where trained in that show.... Ugh. I had the same thought for a second, and it sent a shiver up my spine.
Agent ONE Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 (edited) Their last product was a movie made out of re-dubbed clips from Mospeda, with 5 min of new animation... They actually charged money for this. How could anyone trust this company? These guys are grifters, with a mindless fan following. I will turn on any entertainment company that tarnishes a good brand with garbage (edit in: not that RT was EVER a good brand, but some of you would say it was), I don't understand how RT has a single fan anymore. Edited July 6, 2014 by Agent ONE
CoreyD Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 And it wasn't even a well done redub. How many times did they reshow the same clip over and over and over?
skullmilitia Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 (edited) Alright, I'm going to officially start a new kick starter next month. It's going to be to pay for a high end lawyer, to do the leg work, to kick HG out of the "Macross" world, and back to the only thing they actually own.. which is to the animation, distribution, and merchandising rights of SDFM.Big West, Nue and Tatsu already battled it out in japan, they own the rights to "Macross", and that HG only owns the rights on SDFM. However HG started sending out C&D's to the other companies that were bringing over M2 and M+, saying they owned the rights to "Macross"... they also trademarked several "Macross" related names here in the US to keep anyone else from doing so. Essentially HG is a snake of a company, that used false tactics to insinuate that they have these licenses, when they don't. Just like when HG threatened to sue Hasbro for the Jetfire/VF-1J toy.. it was a empty threat. My idea is one of two. Either higher a lawyer to do the leg work to get and official stance from BW and Nue on the Macross rights for North America.. and Europe since HG also claims they own that as well! Or get enough money to pay for lawyers to basically... run HG out of legal money. I'm working on the logisitics of both currently. If you want to join in, I will need a few admins to help run the KS. *my Lawyer buddy just gave me a better idea, essentially begin work on a "live action fan made" Macross Plus or 7 adaptation. Wait for the C&D from HG, and then challenge them, they will actually have to prove it. which means they spend the money to prove that they own the rights. The Kickstarter would actually be for the production of the film, with the intent to use the money to fight HG.Just have to word that carefully so anyone funding knows the money may be switched to legal funds. Edited July 6, 2014 by skullmilitia
Old_Nash Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 $50,858 pledged in 2 days... Well somebody wants this abomination...
EXO Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 I want to see this abomination. I'm not paying but I'm thoroughly curious to see what they do with the half million dollars people give them. I'm going to be disappointed if it doesn't.
nexxstrait Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 (edited) "According to the Los Angeles Times, prosecutors in Milan, Italy charged him, former Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, and ten others in a trial over tax fraud, embezzlement and false accounting at the Mediaset media company on November 21, 2006.[2] According to Variety, some of the charges have been dropped due to expiring statute of limitations.[3]" For those of us living in Italy, the role of F. Agrama as the so called "shadow man" of Silvio Berlusconi is well known. I wouldn't trust a penny to this man. Edited July 6, 2014 by nexxstrait
Agent ONE Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 And it wasn't even a well done redub. How many times did they reshow the same clip over and over and over? How about that rolling tape clip!??? Its like they are sitting at the HG office and laughing at how bad they can make something and still have people line up and buy it.
azrael Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 On the other hand why not bring Macross Frontier over as Robotech Academy? Then that will only prove that RT cannot stand on its own 2 feet and that all the bullshit they've been saying about the franchise is nothing but bullshit. They need RT to stand away from Macross if they want it to survive. I've said it over many years and in many threads: They need to make your own damn IP and get away from Macross. No one at those panels has ever called them out on it and so far, their attempts haven't earned them anything but one-shot releases. If people want to throw money at this, be my guest. But they need to be aware of the company who is doing this. They'll sue anyone, a big company like Hasbro to a small company in another country like Creavision. All they have been doing is releasing little things every 5 years to keep up their trademarks. If people fund this, then those people who put money into the pot better start asking questions and keep one eye over HG's shoulder to be sure they fulfill their end of the contract. They are spending your money on a project that may or may not work. Consider the risk. Ask questions. Kickstarter makes ordinary people into venture capitalists. Well, you better start acting like one with this project. Funny that Mr March notes Veronica Mars. Kickstarter earned them close to $6 million. Box office gross was only ~$3.5M.
CoreyD Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 How about that rolling tape clip!??? Its like they are sitting at the HG office and laughing at how bad they can make something and still have people line up and buy it. That was the exact clip I had in mind.
EXO Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 If people want to throw money at this, be my guest. But they need to be aware of the company who is doing this. They'll sue anyone, a big company like Hasbro to a small company in another country like Creavision. All they have been doing is releasing little things every 5 years to keep up their trademarks. If people fund this, then those people who put money into the pot better start asking questions and keep one eye over HG's shoulder to be sure they fulfill their end of the contract. They are spending your money on a project that may or may not work. Consider the risk. Ask questions. Kickstarter makes ordinary people into venture capitalists. Well, you better start acting like one with this project. Funny that Mr March notes Veronica Mars. Kickstarter earned them close to $6 million. Box office gross was only ~$3.5M. Yes! I want the "die hard RT fans" to throw money at this! I want them to throw ALL their money at it. I hope they make 6 million dollars too, this way they directly invested at what HG is going to produce for them. I wish it would have happened sooner. You guys know we all want this to happen, as long we ourselves don't put money into it. Please don't let it fail!
Guest davidwhangchoi Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 Damn, im so excited! Love to see a half mil train go!
Kyp Durron Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 ...THEN PAY US!!! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1381502542/robotech-academy?ref=discovery Just freaking die already, RT.
Twoducks Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 If some Robotech fans are seriously considering a donation to this kickstarter, they should be thinking about this sentence skullmilitia wrote. The legitimate Kickstarters are crowdfunding projects for individuals without corporations, their own money or initial investment. These are people that either have no company or will start a company via the kickstarter itself. That have no income from business operations and don't own franchises or receive royalties. The Ouya Video Game Console kickstarter. The Veronica Mars Film Adaptation kickstarter. The kickstarter for indie film "Wish I was Here" by "Scrubs" actor Zack Braff. And of course the most successful kickstarter to date, the Star Citizen Video Game by Wing Commander/Privateer veteran game maker Chris Roberts. These are legitimate kickstarters. Harmony Gold is an established and long-running company (based primarly upon a property ownership business) that has owned and allegedly "profited" from their Robotech IP for decades. For a company like HG to publically request donation tells you this company is NOT a business. It means they cannot obtain financing because investors don't believe in them or their product. It means their own company won't commit to funding a Robotech IP project that they own! It means they've run a company for decades that cannot - or are not willing to - fund their own business ventures. A 20+ year entertainment media company that cannot produce it's own entertainment media. That's not a business; that should be called defunct. Seriously, this Robotech kickstarter is as far from a competent business as it gets. Fans should look at this with their eyes wide open. Fully agree with Mr March here. This has cash grab written all over it. A crappy pilot with whatever money could not fit in HG's pockets and a "sorry, we tried our best". Even freaking WEP got a new Lion Voltron series made a few years ago out of their Golion license. Skullmilitia, if you go all the way I will support your kickstarter.
Darkwater Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 Total speculation on my end, but I have to wonder if this is related to the Veroninca Mars / WB Kickstarter. Kristen Bell and Rob Thomas (the series creator), were looking to make a VM movie with their own money, but WB owned the IP and wasn't willing to take the risk (they'd still be spending money on marketing, distribution, financials, etc). WB and/or Rob Thomas came up with the Kickstarter idea purely to guage interest and it obviously worked. Not knowing how long the Live Action term is, its obvious that there's less and happening with it. Maybe Harmony Gold is hoping WB will get a new sparked interest in this liscense they have? I mean, it worked for Veronica Mars... Also, not to get off-topic, but this makes me wonder about the oddity that is Shadow Rising. A (very brief) recap going off my memory: Tommy annoucnes publicly that they's started production on it in 2007, shows a trailer at Comic-Con and/or Anime Expo. Around the same time Kevin McKeever says its "greenlit" on the Space Station Liberty podcast Tommy says (again publicly) in 2008 at Comic-Con that the Shadow Rising trailer was made to mainly gain investor interest, and goes into the live action movie Years go by with super-vague answers about it. No real implication of it being worked on or if its on hiatus Anime Expo 2013, Tommy states that they've "never stopped' working on it and teases it yet again, showing the trailer. Anime Expo 2014, it becomes completely moot. No mention whatsoever. When Tommy first said it was mainly to gain investor interest, I felt like it was a huge slip-up on his part when I heard it. When Tommy showed the trailer again last year, there Lionsgate reps in the audience, so he could have been playing that up to them? Has this been purposefly planned as vaporware the whole time? I've met and gotten to know a number of other people involved in Robotech Academy who are pretty great people, so I actually hope they get decent paid gig out of it. It's all just really, really bizarre and feels like there's an ulterior motive. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows?
isamu Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 I am a fan of the og 1985 broadcast run and the novels. That being said I despise HG. I hope this fails hard. Pretty much how I feel. Love the OG show but that's it. HG = SB.
Kanedas Bike Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 Go away for the weekend, come back to the forums and this is what's here. 4 pages and counting - for shame. Macross World, you know better. -b.
Zen72 Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) Kind of ironic.....Harmony Gold has killed a few projects over the years........and those people asked for no money from the fans......now Harmony Gold wants money for their own project.....FROM THE FANS..... Irony....however they WILL make their goal.......I do not doubt that.... And that's where the REAL fun begins.....delays...."we don't knows"....maybe 2016....... You'll see more than one pissed off donor in the coming year.... Edited July 7, 2014 by Zen72
MILKAUTICO Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 Kind of ironic.....Harmony Gold has killed a few projects over the years........and those people asked for no money from the fans......now for Harmony Gold wants money for their own project.....FROM THE FANS..... Irony....however they WILL make their goal.......I do not doubt that.... And that's where the REAL fun begins.....delays...."we don't knows"....maybe 2016....... You'll see more than one pissed off donor in the coming year.... HGKILLLIST.jpg wow!! I did not know the truth that these guys were so filthy, after seeing what they did with valkyria project and there are still people who give him money ... and the world can be so generous......
terry the lone wolf Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 I'm not into Robotech bashing but this looks more like a cheap way to take peoples money than a serious first step into a series. No concept art or anything you see on any serious kickstarter. Just pay up because it says "Robotech" lol. The running time of that fan made RT prequel HG killed was longer and they didn't ask for a dime. No concept art?
Guest davidwhangchoi Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) oh man... this always gets ugly Damn, im so excited! Love to see a half mil train go! and see the trainwreck! Edited July 7, 2014 by davidwhangchoi
Beltane70 Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 Wait, I thought that Robotech was alive and profitable! This KS project seems to say otherwise. Okay, I couldn't type that first part with a straight face at all.
David Hingtgen Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 I propose that anybody that pledges money to this, then gets NOTHING out of it (even after years of waiting) has absolutely zero right to complain/rant/hate about it on this board. Seriously, we're telling you NOW that this is probably a bad idea, and you'll probably never see 1 second of footage, or 1 penny back. Seriously, I don't want to spend the next 18 months moderating a zillion "HG took my kickstarter money and we didn't get anything" posts... Mr March already said it--any competent business shouldn't need a kickstarter to fund their own product/IP! Not when they sold a zillion DVDs over the past couple years, yet seem to have nothing to show for it...
Einherjar Posted July 7, 2014 Author Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) HGKILLLIST.jpg For exhibit #1, Patricio Mosquera should have known better than to name his work after an existing official product and then brag that he "worked" on Love Live Alive. Edited July 7, 2014 by Einherjar
technoblue Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 I propose that anybody that pledges money to this, then gets NOTHING out of it (even after years of waiting) has absolutely zero right to complain/rant/hate about it on this board. Seriously, we're telling you NOW that this is probably a bad idea, and you'll probably never see 1 second of footage, or 1 penny back. Seriously, I don't want to spend the next 18 months moderating a zillion "HG took my kickstarter money and we didn't get anything" posts... I agree, with one amendment: That we welcome them all back to the Macross fold...Firebomber style!
Moly_Sigang Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 No concept art? The second pic looks like Elmer Damaso's style, though he's not mentioned as part of the team.
EXO Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 I propose that anybody that pledges money to this, then gets NOTHING out of it (even after years of waiting) has absolutely zero right to complain/rant/hate about it on this board. Seriously, we're telling you NOW that this is probably a bad idea, and you'll probably never see 1 second of footage, or 1 penny back. that's exactly why the KS HAS to succeed! Kind of ironic.....Harmony Gold has killed a few projects over the years........and those people asked for no money from the fans......now Harmony Gold wants money for their own project.....FROM THE FANS..... Irony....however they WILL make their goal.......I do not doubt that.... And that's where the REAL fun begins.....delays...."we don't knows"....maybe 2016....... again... if it doesn't succeed, then the fun never starts... I don't know why people are hoping this fails...
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