Seto Kaiba Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 Sunrise, too. Don't forget Big West and Studio Nue! "CD's?" Shoot my dad gave me a Twisted Sister vinyl album a few years ago. Hahaha Maybe if Kevin gets fired over this, some macross fan might get hired in his place. My dad knows that there's a limit to how retro I'm willing to go... I'm not audiophile enough to shell out for a quality turntable, so vinyl is right out. 'course, he's still got a reel-to-reel player... But hey, if Kevin gets fired over this (and most folks seem to hope he will be), maybe they'll actually hire someone qualified to do his job. His degree is in theatrical lighting, after all, not business management or marketing. He's only job he's really qualified to do is ask "Would you like fries with that, sir?". Of course, if they were clearing out people who were horribly unqualified to do the jobs they do, they'd have to let Steve go too.
Duke Togo Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) No one is getting fired over this KS. If it fails it doesn't mean Macross products will be finding their way to retail stores in the US. If it succeeds or if it fails, nothing really changes. Success is not likely to lead to a series, and failure does nothing to upset the status quo. Oh, and there aren't going to be any lawsuits over mecha design. Edited July 26, 2014 by Duke Togo
CoreyD Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 No one is getting fired over this KS. If it fails it doesn't mean Macross products will be finding their way to retail stores in the US. If it succeeds or if it fails, nothing really changes. Success is not likely to lead to a series, and failure does nothing to upset the status quo. Oh, and there aren't going to be any lawsuits over mecha design. This
Gerli Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 Seems that the mecha designer just goggles "awesome mecha" then puts together the parts he likes. The anime world is full of mecha and robots, it would be hard to find something 100 percent unique. But, that being said, they can come up with something that doesn't look like a rip off. "guys, pass the popcorn" Dude... I think you ate enough already...
Seto Kaiba Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) No one is getting fired over this KS. If it fails it doesn't mean Macross products will be finding their way to retail stores in the US. If it succeeds or if it fails, nothing really changes. Success is not likely to lead to a series, and failure does nothing to upset the status quo. I dunno man, Tom Bateman seemed to think that whoever pitched the idea of a Kickstarter to Frank Agrama is going to be in a bad place if it fails... and Harmony Gold has "dismissed" and replaced staff in the past when they ran projects into the ground in the past. They replaced Carl Macek himself when Macek finally managed to produce this same kind of non-starter in Robotech 3000. We don't know how severe the consequences will be for whoever proposed this at Harmony Gold, but to say that it's out and out impossible would not be accurate. As far as Macross products making their way into the west... not as a direct consequence anyway, but if management is paying attention to the Kickstarter comments they'll probably spot the recurring theme of "stop squatting on the Macross rights and DO SOMETHING". To me, this situation is too similar to Robotech 3000's crash-and-burn failure to think that there won't be consequences... and there's historical precedent for consequences in situations like this shaking up the status quo for Robotech. Since this kind of failure has happened before, the question is "What will the consequences be the second time around?". Will Harmony Gold's senior management, who have progressively lost faith in Robotech over the last fourteen years start exploring what they could do with Macross? Will they can the whole thing? Will they try to fall back on Shadow Rising and refuse to acknowledge that this ever happened for the next ten years? There are a bunch of possibilities, not all of which are mutually exclusive. Oh, and there aren't going to be any lawsuits over mecha design. Not a lawsuit, surely... but I wouldn't rule out a cease-and-desist. Harmony Gold's gotten so fond of sending them, and they are treading close to Hasbro's designs, and you can bet Hasbro is going to defend a cash cow like Transformers vigilantly. Of course, even if Harmony Gold DID receive a cease-and-desist, they'd comply without letting the viewers know that they'd even received one... they'd claim not using the design was a creative decision on their part. Edited July 26, 2014 by Seto Kaiba
Duke Togo Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 Hasbro designs that look like Evangelion designs? Yeah, that's not going anywhere.
Seto Kaiba Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 Hasbro designs that look like Evangelion designs? Yeah, that's not going anywhere. I've seen flimsier cases end up in front of the courts in my day job... unlikely isn't the same as impossible.
Duke Togo Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 Some of the fantasy built around the possible failure of this KS is just as ridiculous as that which exists surrounding the supposed greatness of Robotech on their own forums. None of it is grounded in reality.
azrael Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 FYI, it's Transformers Prime Soundwave. Here's the alt-mode (Can't hotlink so here's a link) http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/transformers-prime-fan-club/images/22161642/title/transformers-prime-soundwave-photo And yeah, I would find it hilarious if Hasbro filed a C&D for their look-a-like drone. Come on guys, dig deep. We have to get this made so that HG can get sued.
Seto Kaiba Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 Some of the fantasy built around the possible failure of this KS is just as ridiculous as that which exists surrounding the supposed greatness of Robotech on their own forums. None of it is grounded in reality. True, though as uncomfortable as some fans are with the idea of downloading (pseudo-illegally) fansubs or paying a premium for material in a language they can't understand, you can hardly blame them for hoping that if Robotech fails hard enough, someone somewhere in authority at Harmony Gold is going to realize that one or more of those unrealistic (in the current situation) ideas is actually not a bad idea business-wise. Again, even those hopes are not necessarily mutually exclusive either... though many are profoundly unlikely for various reasons. People are going to hope, even if those hopes are unrealistic. (Of course, as often as they're being lied to by Harmony Gold, is it that surprising that their hopes are often a poor fit for the objective reality?) On the designs front, there are people calling Harmony Gold on the similarity over on Robotech.com...
Duke Togo Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 Anime fans are uncomfortable with downloading fan subs? Since when?
Seto Kaiba Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 Anime fans are uncomfortable with downloading fan subs? Since when? For as long as fan subs have been a thing, is that so surprising to you? There are plenty of anime fans who don't feel comfortable with the idea of downloading something dubiously legal like fan subs, or are uneasy about using methods like torrents to get them. Just from my own experience, while I was helping out on a Macross MUSH late last year, I ran into upwards of a dozen people who really WANTED to see more Macross, but were hesitant or unwilling to get it by questionable means like downloading a torrented fan sub. Some were concerned about the safety of torrenting, while others were leery about downloading shows at all. I'd have a hard time naming a fan community I was involved with where I hadn't run into one or more people who were uneasy about DLing a fan sub. I've even run into it here on MacrossWorld. It would be unwise to assume that just because you or I are comfortable with it, that everyone is. (The trend I've been seeing has been that reluctance to download fan subs have gone up as the number of streaming sites that carry current anime increases... but that's far from scientific, since it's just my own observations.)
Duke Togo Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 A whole dozen people? Wow, that's a lot. Is there anyone on Macrossworld who hasn't seen Frontier at this point? Anyone?
Seto Kaiba Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 A whole dozen people? Wow, that's a lot. Is there anyone on Macrossworld who hasn't seen Frontier at this point? Anyone? A dozen people in one place, in a short span of time. I've run into plenty more besides. MacrossWorld is probably not a good representative sample, all things considered... but I've even run into it here in the past. It seems to be an especially common reason why Robotech fans haven't explored more Macross. Not because they don't want to, but because they can't get it by normal channels.
Duke Togo Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 Studies on downloading and piracy show these few Macross-loving Robotech fans who are afraid of downloading fansubbed material not available in their country to be in a very small minority. It also doesn't mesh with the behavior of anime fans that's I've seen over the past 30-something years. So, too bad, so sad for those 12 fans.
Seto Kaiba Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 Studies on downloading and piracy show these few Macross-loving Robotech fans who are afraid of downloading fansubbed material not available in their country to be in a very small minority. It also doesn't mesh with the behavior of anime fans that's I've seen over the past 30-something years. So, too bad, so sad for those 12 fans. Studies which are of questionable integrity at best, since in order to reliably measure behavior of questionable legality you have to get people to own up to actually doing it first, and with torrents often using multiple trackers, the numbers of clients downloading a given title is skewed upwards. Yes, torrenting is increasingly common, though it is by no means universally accepted. The point is that these people DO exist, and that there are people who would much rather have (or dearly hope for) the ability to support the franchise through legitimate releases instead of having to pirate the shows. Some of those people are making those wishes known on the Kickstarter, as unlikely as it is that Harmony Gold will actually listen. I don't doubt for a minute that there are no shortage of people on MacrossWorld who would be overjoyed if Macross shows and goods were suddenly available outside of Japan in their local language and through legitimate channels. Just because you're happy with your fansubs doesn't mean everybody is, my friend.
Duke Togo Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) Peer reviewed studies. And file sharing goes far beyond torrenting, and has a far longer history. I'm sure many of us here remember the days of trading bootleg VHS tapes of anime that came straight off of Japanese TV when there was no US anime market. I also own SDF Macross, II, Plus, and the complete 7 set on DVD (yes, 7). Edited July 26, 2014 by Duke Togo
Duke Togo Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 I get it, Seto. You hate HG with a passion and want nothing more than to see them fail. But I'm telling you, let it go. It's not worth it and it doesn't matter anymore.
EXO Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 Well, I have to admit... they did have news. I said they should have shown new mecha. No matter how bad it looks, at least they showed something new. (I'd have preferred all 3 modes though.)
akt_m Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 I don't doubt for a minute that there are no shortage of people on MacrossWorld who would be overjoyed if Macross shows and goods were suddenly available outside of Japan in their local language and through legitimate channels. Nah, i would rather pay directly to the japanese. I see no problems buying anything from amiami or mandarake.
Seto Kaiba Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 Peer reviewed studies. And file sharing goes far beyond torrenting, and has a far longer history. I'm sure many of us here remember the days of trading bootleg VHS tapes of anime that came straight off of Japanese TV when there was no US anime market. I also own SDF Macross, II, Plus, and the complete 7 set on DVD (yes, 7). Because no peer-reviewed study has ever been biased or presented inaccurate information, of course. Seriously now, while torrenting is in common use there are still plenty of folks who would prefer to have a legitimate release that they can buy from a store and thus support the show. Heck, plenty of people who download fan subs also seek out and buy the legitimate releases when they become available. Just because piracy satisfies all your wants doesn't mean that everyone is OK with having fan subs be the ONLY option for getting Macross in the west in a language they can understand. I get it, Seto. You hate HG with a passion and want nothing more than to see them fail. But I'm telling you, let it go. It's not worth it and it doesn't matter anymore. Would you and your straw man like a moment alone to get better acquainted? I wouldn't say that I hate Harmony Gold. I do find their perpetual incompetence annoying and the occasionally trollish behavior of their staff obnoxious, but at the end of the day I'm buying my Macross stuff directly from Japan, so their jackassery's impact on me is minimal... unless you'd like to count the many Robotech fans who continue to bring their OSM-related questions to me by e-mail and Skype, but I'm just glad to help them find the information they're looking for. Well, I have to admit... they did have news. I said they should have shown new mecha. No matter how bad it looks, at least they showed something new. (I'd have preferred all 3 modes though.) Yeah, they did... but the only people who saw it at any tolerable resolution were the ones at SDCC, only one of which has since been posted on the Kickstarter... today, in fact. The Robotech fans don't seem to find them terribly thrilling either. Nah, i would rather pay directly to the japanese. I see no problems buying anything from amiami or mandarake. That's "legitimate channels", buddy.
EXO Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 Yeah, they did... but the only people who saw it at any tolerable resolution were the ones at SDCC, only one of which has since been posted on the Kickstarter... today, in fact. The Robotech fans don't seem to find them terribly thrilling either. I didn't say it was good news for them and not that I expect any. But I'll eat my words when I'm wrong. Still want this to happen! C'mon Robotech fans! Dig deep(er)!!!
EXO Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 Seems like the common question among fans now about is why this KS was so poorly planned... there's one simple answer, it's HG! And it goes beyond just those failed series. It also branches out into the toys and media. I don't have one Toynami item left in my collection, save for the Beagle Mospeada. Because they used the cheapest materials that exploded to dust in time. I supported them when they first started, but they continually failed at making my money worth it. DVDs that cracked before you opened them, toys that were late and not worth the wait, and I can't speak for the animations but from the trailers, teasers and reviews I knew I didn't have the stomach to watch them. But I still think the Robotech fans that still has an ounce of faith should give ALL their money to them. Let's get it over with once and for all. It's all or nothing folks... support it now and never whine about it later...
Duke Togo Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 Seto, I used to be just like you, man. The "100% Pure Macross" slogan was my work a decade ago. I was as militant as they came. But it doesn't matter anymore. And as far as piracy meeting all my needs, I have no idea where you got that from. Yes, perhaps you waited for the official Frontier blu-rays (adding fansubs and reburning them to disc) before ever watching the series. I didn't, and neither did anyone else here. Hell, I streamed it live from Japan. I've also imported Bandai and Yamato valks in the past circumventing HG's blockade on Macross toys. And then there are the DVDs and books I own. But hey, Harmony Gold doesn't let us have any of that stuff, right? Can't get it and can't see it. Must have pirated that Gold Book.
Einherjar Posted July 26, 2014 Author Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) I don't mind if people are going to use this thread as personal catharsis now that, apparently, the professionals aren't taking it seriously anymore. However, please don't go overboard with it as you have for the last few pages, Seto. Edited July 26, 2014 by Einherjar
Save Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 Udon's announcement might shake things up a bit on forum threads arguing over HG & BW licensing rights. I couldn't stay for all of SDCC so I've asked Tom Bateman to make sure to be there and report in. Just to be clear Udon's announcement has zero to do with the Kickstarter.
Duke Togo Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 Udon's announcement might shake things up a bit on forum threads arguing over HG & BW licensing rights. I couldn't stay for all of SDCC so I've asked Tom Bateman to make sure to be there and report in. Just to be clear Udon's announcement has zero to do with the Kickstarter. ?
akt_m Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 That's "legitimate channels", buddy. Yeah, but no one is really missing anything by not having a local release.
Einherjar Posted July 26, 2014 Author Posted July 26, 2014 Udon's announcement might shake things up a bit on forum threads arguing over HG & BW licensing rights. I couldn't stay for all of SDCC so I've asked Tom Bateman to make sure to be there and report in. Just to be clear Udon's announcement has zero to do with the Kickstarter. It's not one of those "comic books are merchandise" character appearance loophole things that Dynamite Comics is already doing, is it?
skullmilitia Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) Who is Udon and what did they announce? Comics and books, not sure what the announcement is.. there's nothing I can find. * I do know they work directly with Bandai, so they might have easier access to loop holes. Edited July 26, 2014 by skullmilitia
Seto Kaiba Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) Seems like the common question among fans now about is why this KS was so poorly planned... there's one simple answer, it's HG! Really? I thought that was something that even Robotech fans had long since started taking as read. Mind you, they single out specific people at Harmony Gold, but the meaning's the same. But I still think the Robotech fans that still has an ounce of faith should give ALL their money to them. Let's get it over with once and for all. It's all or nothing folks... support it now and never whine about it later... Most of the Robotech fans that I talk to on a regular basis have been resigned to this thing being a flop from the word "go", but they'll probably announce another box set two years down the road with the Robotech Academy trailers and concept art on an Extras disc the way the original DVD collection did for Sentinels. Seto, I used to be just like you, man. The "100% Pure Macross" slogan was my work a decade ago. I was as militant as they came. But it doesn't matter anymore. Please take me at my word when I say there's no malice in what I'm about to say... You're mistaking me for someone who cares. Not about your personal stance on anything, mind you, but about Robotech in general and this Kickstarter in particular. I know that my dry, somewhat blunt way of putting things may give you the mistaken impression that I care, but the simple truth is that I honestly haven't had any strong feelings on Robotech either way for at least five or six years now. If Harmony Gold were to put out something Robotech that was actually, truly original and not just another half-assed attempt to cash in on the nostalgia that their fans have for Macross's characters, I would watch it. I look at this unholy mess they're calling Robotech Academy and all I can really muster emotionally is a vague feeling of pity for my friends in the Robotech fandom who are the ones getting sold the bill of goods here, some amusement at how Kevin's attempt to build a campaign on a web of lies is blowing up in his face, and a little irritation at how half-assed this all is and how they're trying to surf the coffin of a dead man to success. That's all. Had Harmony Gold actually bothered to put in the effort to develop an original idea, to fully invest their time and their energy into realizing a vision for a new story that wasn't clinging helplessly to the OSM as a crutch, there's a decent chance that I would have thrown them a few hundred bucks. At the end of the day, the problem with Robotech Academy is that it's half-assed from start to finish. It really is that simple. The pitch was half-hearted at best, amounting to little more than "It's Robotech, give us your money!" and "Do it for Carl!". Their story concept is an atypically obvious half-assed effort to build a Robotech story out of existing parts... it's pretty much Robotech-by-numbers, and one that depends very heavily (almost exclusively) on Macross nostalgia. The effort to pitch is as the pilot for a new series showed that they'd half-assed their planning, since it depends almost entirely on references to portions of the original series that any new audience wouldn't have seen, and that's not counting the references to a show that was never even made. I'm dismissive of Robotech Academy not because it is Robotech, or because Harmony Gold is involved, but because the people making this clearly don't care about it any more than we do. They're just going through the motions, and have zero intention of this actually becoming something. Literally and figuratively, there is no investment on their part in this. Quite a few of the fans I know have seen this too, and that's why they're not backing it. Who is Udon and what did they announce? There's supposedly going to be a new Robotech comic series coming out... maybe. Edited July 26, 2014 by Seto Kaiba
Seto Kaiba Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) hmmmm...... http://www.macross2.net/m3/macross7/vab-2.htm Hmm indeed... Kinda reminds me of the MQ-90 Quox from Ace Combat. Edited July 26, 2014 by Seto Kaiba
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