Duke Togo Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 None really but the earliest is probably the most accurate and that is what was in Robotech Art 3 that Seto is making a nod too. Right, which is where that info came from.
azrael Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 Sounds like just a normal panel for them; always on the first day of a convention and swept under the rug before the actual big news things happen, hyped up but ultimately a mundane hour of old news, and sometimes a stalker-friend videos the whole thing for the Internet confirming how repetitive it is yearly. The only difference is that about $350,000 worth of other people's money is at stake. The SDCC schedule is up if people want to look. Looking around shows it to be a lite Thursday. I don't see anything big scheduled.
Seto Kaiba Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 Yeah, it's on 7/24 @ 7PM. The panel following them is "The Definitive History of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - A Look Under the Shell", which is about a documentary of the same name. Wow, slow room. Still, I imagine the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles will still be a bigger draw than Robotech, so a lot of the room's population for Harmony Gold's presentation will probably be TMNT fans looking to grab a good seat. I think this is a stretch. Creavision has shown that they can create content. Remember, I'm not wondering who will ACTUALLY be at fault... just who Harmony Gold will blame and what their accusation will turn out to be. Creavision has shown that they're reasonably competent in producing animation when they're working with known quantities like familiar IP or real-world military hardware. Producing stock combat footage for documentaries is considerably different from the skillset necessary to produce compelling and exciting action sequences for entertainment purposes. What they've shown us on the Kickstarter page thus far would've been impressive fifteen years ago, but now is honestly no better than what we'd see from cinematics in a video game with a fairly modest budget. It's certainly nowhere close to the standard we've come to expect in the anime industry in the past eight or so years. Would Harmony Gold blame Creavision if Robotech Academy fails? I don't think they're the most likely target, but they're not the least. If they don't want to blame Macek posthumously, the next logical port of call for the blame (assuming they won't just break character and blame themselves for once) would be Creavision for "failing to execute Carl's glorious vision". (Crap, the more I think about it, the more Harmony Gold's efforts to find a guilty party sound like something we'd get from North Korean government officials.) This is getting a little dark, even for the humor in this thread. Although the memory of Macek may be fair game, the late Carl himself is gone. It would be really, really low for HG to blame him. Dark, but likely. I'm not trying to be humorous, I'm seriously musing on who the scapegoat will be once this fails. They might well blame Carl Macek, since this whole project is allegedly his idea and being executed in a manner faithful to his artistic vision for a new Robotech series. They won't want to blame themselves, and unless Tommy and co. are actually on thin ice the way Macek was with Robotech 3000, they own't accept the blame themselves. The last time they admitted the idea was bad was Robotech 3000, and if this spins in so hard that they have to admit the concept itself was bad, then it's all on Carl's head because they've pushed this as being Carl's visionary concept. I don't think for a second that this was actually Carl Macek's idea... except on the most basic, conceptual level. I think both of these points are the most valid in your list, seto kaiba. And as nice as it would be to see Tommy Yune being held accountable at HG, along with the aging staff responsible for Robotech after so many dead ends, the more likely result will be to blame the fans. I can already imagine the end: An aloof HG staff shrugging their shoulders, noting that the nostalgia movement has passed them by once again. Yeah, at the most basic level, the explanation we're going to get when they don't reach $500,000 is "the stars were not right". The same explanation they've been giving for almost thirty years now. The fans will likely get some of the blame too, for not ponying up enough scratch to make this work.
technoblue Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 Remember, I'm not wondering who will ACTUALLY be at fault... just who Harmony Gold will blame and what their accusation will turn out to be. Got it. Creavision has shown that they're reasonably competent in producing animation when they're working with known quantities like familiar IP or real-world military hardware. Producing stock combat footage for documentaries is considerably different from the skillset necessary to produce compelling and exciting action sequences for entertainment purposes. What they've shown us on the Kickstarter page thus far would've been impressive fifteen years ago, but now is honestly no better than what we'd see from cinematics in a video game with a fairly modest budget. It's certainly nowhere close to the standard we've come to expect in the anime industry in the past eight or so years. Would Harmony Gold blame Creavision if Robotech Academy fails? I don't think they're the most likely target, but they're not the least. If they don't want to blame Macek posthumously, the next logical port of call for the blame (assuming they won't just break character and blame themselves for once) would be Creavision for "failing to execute Carl's glorious vision". (Crap, the more I think about it, the more Harmony Gold's efforts to find a guilty party sound like something we'd get from North Korean government officials.) Thanks. The extra detail helps. I hadn't thought about the transition from CGI with live action elements to CGI with animated elements. Since I'm not in the industry, I have no idea what the learning curve is there. And without an open forum for this project to see behind-the-scenes activity, I'll have to rethink what I wrote above... All theories are valid at this point. Speaking of behind the scenes updates, and in the even this was funded, I wonder if HG would be open to doing something similar to what Tim Schafer did after raising money for Broken Age? Would they allow a third party to document the whole thing?
coronadlux Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 They want cash for the pilot, but, they are now offering a art book, along with coins and stuff. I am now really interested where the money is going to be allocated. Svea Macek is a consultant. Any which way you spin it, consultants aren't cheap. At least, to what I've seen on kickstarter, those who want to make a film already have a script and go into more detail about it than HG has. It's more than just "best and the brightest in a school and they get attacked" then they hijack a ship and warp out. Ok, so the Branch Davidians attack the moon, which by the way makes no sense since there is already a military base on mars, the kids get scared, tuck tail and run. Leaving everyone else for Canon Fodder. Then what? Do they come back with reinforcements and kick butt. It's so sketchy that I think they will make it up as they go along.
Seto Kaiba Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 Thanks. The extra detail helps. I hadn't thought about the transition from CGI with live action elements to CGI with animated elements. Since I'm not in the industry, I have no idea what the learning curve is there. That makes two of us... as I'm a ten-thumbed artistic cripple whose stickmen come out malformed. I was thinking more along the lines of the difference between cinematography for documentary/educational purposes and cinematography intended for use as entertainment. It's a whole different school of thought, though you make an excellent point that compositing CG with animation is going to be quite a different working environment than CG alone or CG and live-action. It's gonna be a real tall order for them to produce something satisfactory after all the criticism leveled at Shadow Chronicles for its conspicuous and lazily-done CG (I think most of the folks I knew harped on the antialiasing failures, which led to every vehicle being surrounded by a slight haze of white pixels because they screwed up the textures). Speaking of behind the scenes updates, and in the even this was funded, I wonder if HG would be open to doing something similar to what Tim Schafer did after raising money for Broken Age? Would they allow a third party to document the whole thing? Probably not. The Harmony Gold of thirty years ago might have been on board with an idea like that, but ever since 2001 they've been indulging heavily in revisionist history to make themselves look better. Carl Macek went from being "that guy with that show" to, in their eyes, a science fiction innovator/visionary on par with Niven, Heinlein, Roddenberry, or Lucas. Unless the third party was basically parroting the company line and only allowed to print the borderline hagiography that is HG's press packet, they wouldn't allow it. There'd be too much chance that third-party reportage would make them look incompetent (which they generally are). They want cash for the pilot, but, they are now offering a art book, along with coins and stuff. I am now really interested where the money is going to be allocated. Most of that nonsense is Cafepress press level easy, and the art book will probably be the same amateur-hour bull as The Art of Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles (if it gets made). This is minimum-effort quick-burn garbage, for the most part. (AotSC was, in large part, just a bunch of grainy, low-def screen captures dominating two-page spreads with a few scattered pieces of production color sheets or untextured CG models.) Svea Macek is a consultant. Any which way you spin it, consultants aren't cheap. I dunno, Macek was supposedly a consultant on RTSC, and that mess was made on a budget of under $1 million, most of which Harmony Gold claimed went to animation and voice actors. (Mark Hamill doesn't come cheap, apparently, though they claimed it was because the original VAs are now SAG members, and thus commanded higher pay.) Then what? Do they come back with reinforcements and kick butt. It's so sketchy that I think they will make it up as they go along. The more they talk about it like that, the more I think this is going to be a retread of the Star Trek: Deep Space 9 episode "Valiant", where a ship of cadets tries (unsuccessfully) to take the fight to the enemy after the supervising officers are killed on their training flight.
Tom Bateman Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 BTW, does anyone know what Tom Bateman has to say about all of this? According to his profile he hasn't posted on here in almost a year. Hey Apollo Leader, Sorry I haven't been around lately... I do lurk from time to time. I was actually at the Robotech panel at Anime Expo (not participating in it, obviously) I have found this entire thread to be fascinating... Robotech Academy... hmmmmmm, where to begin?
Apollo Leader Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 Hey Apollo Leader, Sorry I haven't been around lately... I do lurk from time to time. I was actually at the Robotech panel at Anime Expo (not participating in it, obviously) I have found this entire thread to be fascinating... Robotech Academy... hmmmmmm, where to begin? I assume you didn't get in on one of those $5,000+ tiers?
terry the lone wolf Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) Hey Apollo Leader, Sorry I haven't been around lately... I do lurk from time to time. I was actually at the Robotech panel at Anime Expo (not participating in it, obviously) I have found this entire thread to be fascinating... Robotech Academy... hmmmmmm, where to begin? Please start at the beginning. As former member of HG maybe you have some insight on Robotech Academy?.. Edited July 20, 2014 by terry the lone wolf
Seto Kaiba Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) *impressed whistle*The trend-line predictions on Kicktraq just keep getting grimmer for Robotech Academy... the estimated likely pledge total is now at 69% ($345,651), and the estimated high-low projection cone now sits at 49-74% ($246,189 to $370,970). They're losing about 3% off the top every day, and there's still 19 days to go and they're almost to single digits in terms of the number of new backers being added daily. If the current downward trend is arrested where it sits now (about $3,400 a day), they'll reach approximately $228,000 (45.6%) of their goal at the end of the 35 day funding period.The natives appear to be restless, as well, and some of them are brave enough to call a spade a spade: (emphasis mine, but the quote belongs to user david lacina on Kickstarter, from his post approximately 12 hours ago at time of writing) Merijeek, I know this gets me placed as an enemy spy, but I am not plussed about the universe of print on demand collectibles at this point... Like you said, at this point it feels like the same 200 people will just buy anything with robotech printed on it (What's next? Key chains? Bath cozies? Mini blinds that mimic the SDF-1 warping in when you close them?)Assuming this stuff is all only exclusive to the kickstarter these art books and hoodies don't fund the actual production in any meaningful way, but they will artificially inflate the kickstarter numbers a bit... Which is great until we find out they can't make a cartoon because they lost 100k of the 500k in the making of Roy Fokker pasta strainers and hoodies.Now... If you already have a major backer in the wings with a commitment already in play then, like the Veronica mars kickstarter, you can make all the tote bags you want because this is just another form of ad... And I'm really hoping that's the case here. Please HG! Tell us that Netflix bought the show and this is just an ad...I'm still waiting for some substance. Not stuff.Are all of these goodies only pressed to the kickstarter? It doesn't come as any surprise that, even thought Academy logo is already a tissue-paper thin ripoff of the UN Spacy roundel from pre-Frontier Macross, their main draw is unashamedly Macross-derived material for, you guessed it, Skull squadron. Why it bears "UN Spacy" is questionable at best, since even if we put aside that this a clear attempt to play the Robotech fandom's nostalgia for Macross, in Robotech Skull squadron's not attached to the Defense Forces anymore by this point (it's part of the Expeditionary Forces). With a tiny input of extra effort this could almost have been something that could masquerade as original in bad light at fifty paces... something blatantly UEEF would've gone a ways towards giving the illusion that this isn't just the latest attempt to shake the closet Macross fans in Robotech's fanbase down for some dough. Edited July 20, 2014 by Seto Kaiba
TheLoneWolf Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 They pointed the finger at the Tatsunoko-supplied writers working for them in Sentinels via the Robotech Art books (their original official account of what went wrong) You're misconstruing what Macek wrote in Robotech Art 3. Macek only mentioned those writers as an example of the types of problems encountered during preproduction; he were never faulted them with the actual failure of The Sentinels. Furthermore, since those writers' ideas were vetoed by Macek and superceded with his own material, their effect on the end result is moot. Sorry I haven't been around lately... I do lurk from time to time. Good to see you again, Tom! I loved hearing your thoughts on the SpeakerPodcast.
Guest davidwhangchoi Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 artist got 35 thousand for two weeks of no work for failed kickstarter... scary http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/20/5920079/yogscast-kickstarter-canceled-yogventures-winterkewl
coronadlux Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Some of the CG shown so far has not been up to the Creavision standard really. I've seen better CG in Battlestar Galactica (the original) Why does the ship resemble the sdf-3? Is it that they have no idea on how to improve on their designs. Anyway, If this fails, my condolences will go to Creaviasion. 3 years of their still unfinished fan film, and now a pilot that was never to be. A kickstarter to buy off the "franchise" from HG would be way too complicated, and I'm sure loopholes would be in place so that HG would still be active in one way or another. At least one is still drawing stuff. Not bad Put some life into them eyes for crying outloud... It's not a line art thing either. Edited July 21, 2014 by coronadlux
EXO Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 looks like the effects of Guatemalan insanity pepper...
Einherjar Posted July 21, 2014 Author Posted July 21, 2014 Let me guess, Lindsay's hair is either green or strawberry brown.
Tom Bateman Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 I assume you didn't get in on one of those $5,000+ tiers? I had to pass, unlike Tommy, I'm not rich; nor am I a multimillionaire, like Frank Please start at the beginning. As former member of HG maybe you can some insight on Robotech Academy.. This Robotech Academy Kickstarter has become quite a debacle, hasn't it? I've been gone from HG for over seven years now, so I don't have any first-hand knowledge of what is happening right now, but given my experience working with the people involved, I think I can offer a unique perspective. I usually attend the Robotech panel at Anime Expo as an interested, albeit disillusioned fan. I'm usually not surprised by whatever news (or non-news) comes out of the panels. I find it all amusing, the same old message year after year. However, this year, there were rumblings before the panel that something was going to go down, with that weird logo they put out the day before. I had heard rumors about a Kickstarter happening before, but I never thought they'd actually do it. So, they now have a Kickstarter... well, that confirmed to me that Frank Agrama has chosen to not open his wallet to fund any future Robotech productions. Certainly not by himself. He hasn't done that since Shadow Chronicles, I don't really count Robotech: Love, Live, Alive because that was about as low cost a project that you can get; pocket change, really. Had RT:LLA been the blockbuster success that Kevin McKeever adamantly claims it was, wouldn't Frank simply bankroll this new project? Frank didn't make his millions by being stupid. You don't invest your money unless you expect a good return, and in this case, he clearly doesn't see it as a worthwhile investment. I think a hard thing for Tommy, Steve, and Kevin to do is to convince fans to fund this new Robotech project when even their multimillionaire owner will not. I think that's a very hard sell. One other thing that I noticed at the panel and through the subsequent videos is the promotion of this idea of Robotech Academy being Carl Macek's vision or dream project. I believe this is false, Carl Macek's dream was "The Sentinels", Carl was never satisfied with the video that came out, nor was he content with the novels and comics. He always felt that the story should have been properly told in an animated way. It was his grand magnum opus, he wanted to do something on the scale of DUNE. THAT was his dream, not doing some "side story" with kids. I have a hard time believing that this Robotech Academy was the project he most wanted to do. My belief is that Robotech Academy is actually Tommy Yune's idea, first and foremost. I think Carl, who really wasn't in a position to dictate what story should be done, acquiesced to Tommy's suggestion to do things like last years RT:LLA and perhaps Robotech Academy. Both of these projects happened long after Carl's death in 2010, so how much input or involvement he had, if any, we will never know. It is now four years later, and Carl is not here to tell us, so we are left with Tommy Yune's version of events. Of course, I was not part of whatever meetings Carl had with Harmony Gold, but my experience working with Tommy Yune makes me confident in my belief that he would NEVER surrender creative control of Robotech to anyone, certainly not Carl, who I feel he did not respect creatively. I also base this belief on having known Carl for nearly 25 years and in particular the last dinner he and I had together less than two months before he died where we had a long, lively, sometimes heated discussion about what he thought should be done with Robotech. I know a lot of people here give Robotech fans a hard time, but they really just want a good Robotech, something that rekindles the magic that they felt when they first saw the show. I think they are foolish to pin their hopes and dreams for one on Tommy Yune, but their intentions are altruistic, and I think you should give them a break, even if they are being naive. Kevin, Steve, and Tommy have done a lot to alienate fans for over a decade now. Silencing dissent and not listening to what the fans want and then trolling them with things like an "Enemy Spy" level on their Kickstarter page. I think that alone is highly unprofessional, rude, and just plain bad business. There are people who are working on this project who I highly respect. Ford Riley has solid credentials and a successful track record in children's programming. He was saddled, as was I, with Tommy Yune's refusal to let either of us completely do a needed "page one rewrite" of RTSC. I've known Greg Snegoff and Tony Oliver for nearly 20 years and they are both real pros and even better people.I have a lot of mixed emotions about this project. I don't think it's a very strong idea to pitch to networks. I don't think fans were clamoring for this kind of story. There are already plenty of Robotech stories that have been left untold. Now, Shadow Rising is another one tossed aside with little explanation. Fans are being promised nothing beyond a 24-minute "pilot" episode. Kickstarter rewards aside, that doesn't sound like much to look forward to. What if Robotech Academy doesn't get picked up as a series? Will they do another Kickstarter for another 24-minute episode? It's a very uncertain future.It will be very interesting to see what happens... Well, that's what I think. If you have any questions, please let me know. Tom Bateman
Seto Kaiba Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) At least one is still drawing stuff. Not bad Just remember, there has historically been a pretty big gulf between Tommy Yune's "early concept" art the final product. What he did for Shadow Chronicles started out looking like a credible imitation of MOSPEADA, and mutated into something that looked like American superhero comics. It would be a bad idea to assume this art has more than a remote, tangential connection to what it'd look like in the finished work. Some of the CG shown so far has not been up to the Creavision standard really. I've seen better CG in Battlestar Galactica (the original) Why does the ship resemble the sdf-3? Is it that they have no idea on how to improve on their designs. What do you mean resemble? That IS the SDF-3 in their video... the "red turd" Sentinels version, no less... since Prelude did keep that design before the Invid Regent shot the bow off and they rebuilt it into something MOSPEADA-esque. EDIT: Looks like this might be the worst day yet for the Kickstarter, with just two hours left in the day and the net take being just $1,547 spread across 10 backers. Edited July 21, 2014 by Seto Kaiba
terry the lone wolf Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 Thanks Tom. I appreciate your honesty and candor.. Here's something a little off topic but I just had to share..A rare Carl Macek Sentinels interview..
akt_m Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 *impressed whistle* The trend-line predictions on Kicktraq just keep getting grimmer for Robotech Academy... the estimated likely pledge total is now at 69% ($345,651), and the estimated high-low projection cone now sits at 49-74% ($246,189 to $370,970). They're losing about 3% off the top every day, and there's still 19 days to go and they're almost to single digits in terms of the number of new backers being added daily. If the current downward trend is arrested where it sits now (about $3,400 a day), they'll reach approximately $228,000 (45.6%) of their goal at the end of the 35 day funding period. So, if this KS fails, what next? Are they finally going to let it die?
skullmilitia Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) I know a lot of people here give Robotech fans a hard time, but they really just want a good Robotech, something that rekindles the magic that they felt when they first saw the show. There is, it's called Macross. Sorry I had too. * not debating, just saying, 1/3 Robotech is SDFM, and there are plenty of Macross Sequels to quench one's thirst. I am a 1/3 Robotech fan. So Don't think I'm just hating to hate. Edited July 21, 2014 by skullmilitia
Einherjar Posted July 21, 2014 Author Posted July 21, 2014 I think Tom's said as much as needed to be said at this point.
Seto Kaiba Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) So, if this KS fails, what next? Are they finally going to let it die? Your guess is as good as mine, but if Frank Agrama is now unwilling to finance further Robotech development the way we (and now Tom) have speculated in this thread then it certainly bodes ill for Robotech's future. Perhaps they'll put the franchise into another ten-year coma while they sh*t out feeble comics the way they did in the 90s. Perhaps they'll just throw in the towel and either seek out Big West hat-in-hand over Macross licensing or sell the rights. It's impossible to say, because their actions are often at odds with what most of us would consider good business sense. There is, it's called Macross. Sorry I had too. It's harsh, but for the vast majority of Robotech fans it's also absolutely true. If you ask most of them what part of Robotech was what drew them in and captured their imaginations, they'll tell you "the Macross Saga". That's why Robotech Academy is really playing up the Macross connection in its pitch and its iconography. Most of them could care less about the Masters Saga or New Generation, they want a Star Wars EU-style continuation of the story of Macross's original cast. From Tom's account up there, it seems like they were in good company... that apparently being Carl's own wish as well. Edited July 21, 2014 by Seto Kaiba
Einherjar Posted July 21, 2014 Author Posted July 21, 2014 You can stop now, Seto. We get it. You don't have to be an a$$ about it for the rest of the funding period.
Mr March Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 It will be very interesting to see what happens... Well, that's what I think. If you have any questions, please let me know. Tom Bateman Damn, I hate being right all the time But seriously, I thought I'd feel a smug sense of superiority to hear all this from a former HG employee. Perhaps to some degree, I do. But after reading Tom's post, I feel more depressed about this whole affair. For certain I've no interest in Robotech and would be happier if Harmony Gold were defunct. However, Robotech is a property like so many others that could be done well if only done by the right people. Clearly, history has shown the right people are far removed from Robotech. I will say this about the past few decades of Harmony Gold; all their failures, their legal threats/battles and their denial of Macross IP internationally is a testament to human ignorance, inefficiency and bureaucracy. For all the effort spent, the ill-will that's been spread, the disappointment that's resulted and the money that's been wasted over two decades, one poor sequel is all anyone has to show for it. How did it all come to this? Nonethless, thanks for the post Tom. It's good to hear at least one person came out the other side of Harmony Gold with at least a measure of wisdom to show for the ordeal.
Seto Kaiba Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) You can stop now, Seto. We get it. You don't have to be an a$$ about it for the rest of the funding period. I fear you may have missed the thrust of my thought, though I guess that's on me for not being my usual blunt self about it. You look at what the vague synopsis of Robotech Academy they've been circulating to their backers says and it's clear that they've bowed to the fans' insistent requests for something analogous to a continuation of Robotech II: the Sentinels. The fans have been very vocal, both on Robotech.com and elsewhere, about how what they want is the continuation of the Macross Saga cast's story. Harmony Gold has stuck with the line that a revisit of Sentinels is off the table, so this Robotech Academy project seems to be their attempt at a "next best thing" solution. Perhaps that's why Harmony Gold itself didn't want to fund this... it's a stealth continuation/side story of Robotech II: the Sentinels, a story the management doesn't seem to think is worth revisiting. They're clearly making an effort to try and recapture both those distinctive Sentinels designs and the Macross-y flavor that Sentinels did actually manage to have on some levels... though that, oddly enough, doesn't seem to be enough to sell the idea to a lot of the fans. Actually, reflecting on that, the fans grumbled a fair bit about how Shadow Chronicles went snooker loopy after branching off from the comic book conclusion to the Sentinels story arc (Prelude Vol.1's first half was basically a panel-for-panel revisit of the comic's last issue). This looks to be a lot closer, so why do so many of them seem unhappy with it? (Apart from the ugly ship that was the first "big reveal", anyway.) EDIT: I suppose, in that light, one could almost say that this was following the spirit, rather than the letter, of Carl's general "wish" for the series... revisiting the Sentinels period in a roundabout way. Edited July 21, 2014 by Seto Kaiba
skullmilitia Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 So I wonder, if you used HG to buy a house, would they later claim you bought it in Macek's vision?
Apollo Leader Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Well, that's what I think. If you have any questions, please let me know. Tom Bateman With everything that you've laid out I think this begs the question of what happens if this Kickstarter campaign totally fails? Is there a possibility that this was all an ultimatum by Frank Argama for Tommy and the others to prove whether there was still a viable interest in a new Robotech production or to produce some results (that's why they are doing this Kickstarter instead of actually investing money)? Looking at the stats for this Sunday it looks like they aren't even going to break $2,000 for pledges today and will be lucky to get more than a dozen new backers. I honestly think that there are some shakeups coming... Edited July 21, 2014 by Apollo Leader
Negotiator Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 I still think there's going to be a few die-hards there that will put in all their savings just to make the goal and say "told you so macrossworld, FU".
skullmilitia Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 I still think there's going to be a few die-hards there that will put in all their savings just to make the goal and say "told you so macrossworld, FU". Then what? they will do it again for the second episode, once the first one gets denied by Networks? This logic of selling robotech to networks is, IMO stupid. Robotech is not something marketable right now. Look at the most popular kids shows, then look at any of the previous offerings of Robotech. It's doomed from the beginning. No offense to anyone, but this whole stupid idea, is purely based on people's attachment to nostalgia and nothing more. Look at the only real anime, it's played late at night on weekends. Shows played during prime kids entertainment are purely already sustained properties from huge production companies. Most are even just continuing shows. Most of it all being corporate entertainment, held by the biggest names in the kids toys and games. If it was 500K for a DVD, ok, but 500K for a pilot to sell to a network? it's like it's been done on purpose to fail.
Legioss Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 This is an all-or-nothing campaign, if we don't reach our target, all the funds will be returned and Robotech Academy will not be made. That means the backers will not get thier rewards or add-on either. We don't want that to happen. said Kevin on page 23 of the Robotech Academy thread (the latest post). What if this kills Shadow Rising and even the LAM? That might be a nice side effect.
azrael Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 I think a hard thing for Tommy, Steve, and Kevin to do is to convince fans to fund this new Robotech project when even their multimillionaire owner will not. I think that's a very hard sell. As I've mentioned in some form or another, donors are investors. No matter the amount, they should start acting like one. In my 2nd post, which is now immortalized on the 1st post, Tommy & Co. probably talked to networks and they likely said, "Pass." So yeah, if the boss said, "go find your own funding", what does that say about the boss' confidence in this property? (Like before, I'm being rhetorical and folks here really shouldn't be trying to answer me.) There are people who are working on this project who I highly respect. In the end, they are folks just like the rest of us who are doing our work and collecting our paycheck. It's the guys on the top, the ones making this sales pitch, that donators should be mindful of. === Imagine if you were a venture capitalist and people were coming to you with ideas about what you should spend your money on. Investors are always asking things like, "What do I get in return?", "What makes your product unqiue?", "Why should I give you money?" Even in most offices, and if you are on a budget, you have to justify to those holding the money why you need to purchase this or that, or why you need to allocate money for expenses, staff, the whole caboodle. And sometimes, down to the dollar. Donors should be asking these hard questions as well. And remember, out of the $500,000-goal they want, they'll only walk away with ~$450,000 after fees. So obviously they don't need exactly $.5M cuz they wouldn't even get it all if they make their exact goal. People should have this thought in mind at SDCC.
JB0 Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 So I wonder, if you used HG to buy a house, would they later claim you bought it in Macek's vision?Yes. And that the termites you found later weren't their fault.
Mr March Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) If it was 500K for a DVD, ok, but 500K for a pilot to sell to a network? it's like it's been done on purpose to fail. I believe you're right, but look at it from the perspective of the Robotech development team (call it Team Yune to visualize). There is no downside to the kickstarter approach. What is there to risk should Robotech Academy fail? Does it risk Harmony Gold's money? None has been invested. Does it risk the reputation of the Robotech brand? There's nowhere to go but up. Does it risk abusing the Robotech fans? Harmony Gold has abused fans for decades. I agree with you that what Harmony Gold is pitching with Robotech Academy has no marketable modern hook. The Robotech Academy idea - kickstarter or otherwise - is not a sound idea for a modern animated series on any level. But I don't see much of a downside if the kickstarter fails or if it succeeds, the pilot's made and it's not picked up. No one will hang and no one will learn anything. It'll just be another Robotech project that went south. Try again in 5 years. Edited July 21, 2014 by Mr March
Jasonc Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 The fact is, there are enough Robotech fans to fund this thing. The problem HG has, is that they assume that fans want to pay for something to be made for the sake of furthering Robotech. That's not true. Robotech fans just want to see something new, but don't want to invest in it. In any case, as of now, they need roughly $18,600+ to make the goal. They haven't made that kind of money since it started.
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