Hoptimus Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 Actually, I would argue that is what pretty creative to take three completely different anime shows and bridge them together with some pretty small things that just managed to work out. The idea of protoculture was pretty creative in Robotech, as it went from culture meaning a product of a society to a culture like something created in a lab. That was pretty clever. And as Mospeada was often focused on finding fuel, and Southern Cross having the weird scenes around the mounds, it kind of worked. Not perfectly, and certainly not when you see the originals and realize what things were. The mounds in SC also kind of worked with the fake out of the SDF-2. (That was the one glaring omission that every kid who saw Robotech wondered - where was the SDF-2 and why did we never see it!) The idea of Claudia's nephew was a little racist - I guess they were trying to connect the only real African American character in Macross. Dana was in Macross so that connection made a little sense - even though they had to spend a whole episode explaining the connection. Mospeada had the least connection - and in some ways the most. It of course tied together with Macross as the REF came back - but the mysterious missing Admiral Hunter was a bit strange, as was the returning expedition that clearly was following other failed expeditions that were never really mentioned in context. The ending with Scott looking for the SDF-3 made little sense - how was he going to get there is his little fighter?! But with all the plot holes, all the contextual issues, in the end, it was better contextually than so many movies made as sequels that have far more issues - including X-men, Star Wars, among others. To the original point, the current HG projects are having FAR more contextual issues that what the original Robotech had with three completely different shows. Shadow Chronicles seemed like a bad fan project from people who didn't watch the original show or had no concept of the Sentinels except some vague understanding. Coming from HG, it made no sense at all. That makes me have little confidence in Academy. I realize that I am a Robotech apologist to many of you - it has a special place for me in my childhood and opened up anime to me (particularly the Robotech Art I book which honestly spoke of the sources of Robotech and origins of anime). But I'm not supporting this kickstarter simply because I don't think Shadow Chronicles did justice to the source material or enhanced the story. It did nothing to draw in new fans, and created more issues for old fans. With Academy, we can assume that it is the story of the Mars and Jupiter divisions being trained - but it could be the training of Jack Baker and Karen Penn. Or maybe it is the training of Dana Sterling and Bowie Grant. But I kind of thought Jack Baker was trained on the Zentradi station. And we saw Dana graduate on "Earth" in "Dana's Story". And if it follows any other story line, what would be the point? As it stands, I'm not sure there is a point to Academy at any rate as I don't see it advancing the story at all. Yes that is mostly how I feel too. The sad part is that Tom Bateman's original script to follow up episode 85 (Shadowforce) was so much better than what the Tommy Yune regime released. That is why I have no faith in this. The current direction for RT is terrible. Just let it go.
Perrych Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 But Robotech fans are kind of iffy when it comes to anything that isn't Macross or directly tied to same. That's why every take on making a Robotech sequel tries to tie into the "Macross Saga" as directly and frequently as possible. Macross is the only part of Robotech that 99% of Robotech fans actually care about. By way of example, look at the Shadow Chronicles... every major character except for one has some direct tie to the Macross Saga cast.I'm not defending that abomination, but Shadow Chronicles was a mix of Sentinels, Macross, Mospeada, and even a Louie thrown in from SC. That's not a bad combination. Why Dana, Bowie, Dante,etc were left out beats me. Macross actually had a kind of small showing.
Seto Kaiba Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) I'm not defending that abomination, but Shadow Chronicles was a mix of Sentinels, Macross, Mospeada, and even a Louie thrown in from SC. That's not a bad combination. Why Dana, Bowie, Dante,etc were left out beats me. Macross actually had a kind of small showing. Shadow Chronicles might've used characters from those, but remember that Sentinels was almost entirely Macross-driven anyway, and there was a concerted effort on Harmony Gold's part to Macross-ize the MOSPEADA designs (e.g. the Legioss w/ FAST pack). Even Harmony Gold doesn't really make much of an effort to disguise that the only part of Robotech that actually matters, narratively or commercially, is Macross. Get down to the leaked outline of what the "shadow saga" was supposed to be, and it's someone's terrible DYRL? and Battlestar Galactica crossover played out with MOSPEADA action figures. Edited July 10, 2014 by Seto Kaiba
EXO Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 Love the answer to why it costs $500k to make one episode. Basically translates to... look we got nothing... no story, no designs, nothing! Alls we got is a dream... haven't you ever had a dream mister?
Seto Kaiba Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 Love the answer to why it costs $500k to make one episode. Basically translates to... look we got nothing... no story, no designs, nothing! Alls we got is a dream... haven't you ever had a dream mister? 's probably better than a more honest answer. "We're planning on a two year-long pub crawl of truly epic proportions... we might do a show with what's left over".
Gakken85 Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 We want to make more Scott and Rand masterpiece cyclones with the money and sell them on ebay ! *muahahaha
Duke Togo Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 Love the answer to why it costs $500k to make one episode. Basically translates to... look we got nothing... no story, no designs, nothing! Alls we got is a dream... haven't you ever had a dream mister? How could HG sustain an ongoing series with such high production costs? At best this is a one-off money grab. It's a scheme with no long term prospects.
Gakken85 Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 Agree. They have a track record of leeching off other peoples creativity and doing nothing themselves.
azrael Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 Q: I read somewhere online that an episode of anime costs $145,000 to make. Why are you asking for $500,000? A: Back in 2010, a report popped up online that quoted data from a Japanese research company called Media Development Research Institute, which cited a figure of $145,000 (in 2010) to produce a single episode of a thirty minute anime. What is often overlooked is that this figure represents production costs for a pre-existing series, but does not factor in everything else necessary to get that series started in the first place. There are a huge amount of set-up costs that come with creating and distributing a new series that is overlooked. For an ongoing series, the producers have already done the one-time costs of building assets and can cover the costs over the life of an entire season (or multiple seasons!), giving the illusion that a single episode costs a lot less to produce. It takes more than a pile of lumber to build a house – you’ve got to plan it out and then bring in the right people to make it happen. Creating a pilot episode for a new series requires pre-production and design work for characters, backgrounds and mecha, building a new sound effects library, scoring new music, etc. On top of that, we have to factor in the cost of mastering and manufacturing DVDs/Blu-rays, digital distribution fees, Kickstarter fees, Amazon Payments fees, not to mention the cost of shipping all this great stuff to you. None of these costs factor into the MDRI figure since we’re looking at a very different type of distribution model. So they're assuming the show will get picked up for an entire series? I can't begin to site the numerous examples where that thought can go wrong. Hell, every show that we see on TV is constantly on a sink-or-swim cycle. Shows have been cancelled because the network didn't want it. Jeebus, look at Community. A couple of years ago I was watching Green Lantern: The Animated Series and it was a pretty good show. Cartoon Network killed it after a season (1 season split into 2 parts, 26 episodes total). And what distribution model are they going for? Netflix? iTunes? Dear god, Youtube? Some method for other countries that we don't use in the USA? You donors should be poking at them for info to be sure they have a solid plan for the what-if.
Jasonc Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 This is basically a big ransom note to the fans. "We won't do anything, unless you give us money for it, and we won't tell anymore than that." From a company that has hundreds of millions of dollars in various accounts, I can't but see this as a sham to lure the ignorant into. These people investing can read on their fund that it gives them an opportunity to be part of the production process, when in fact, all they're doing is taking their money. They have zero say so in any of it. In reality, this kinda defeats what Kickstarter was originally set up for.
Mr March Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 Not sure why, but I just had a thought about why this kickstarter was created, why Robotech SC was so awful, and why it seems that all these Robotech projects get cancelled or go nowhere: the thought came from my own job. I'm responsible for a single client and for making that client profitable. Ensuring my team provides service, ensuring the customer is statisfied, ensuring contract renewal, etc. My client is happy and renews every year. But we also have "problem accounts", the accounts that cause people to burnout or cause high turnover in our staff. What if Robotech is one of the problem accounts for Harmony Gold? Many here have told me that Harmony Gold is primarily a real estate company, making money from purchasing, selling, leasing, etc. They also have media distribution; a sort of middle man for TV and films. So the "Robotech" IP would be one small part of the company and perhaps, it's a part no one really gives a crap about or actively avoids. People in HG know it's reputation; they know the Robotech account is plagued by legal troubles; they know past projects have been cancelled or outright failed; they know Robotech is an account to be avoided if you want upward mobility. Management also considers the Robotech account a dead end in the company, so no one ever champion's Robotech or fights to get it on it's feet. As such, the Robotech account is constantly mismanaged. This would parallel the history we know as public bystanders to the process. As a result, whoever moves in to take over the "Robotech account" has to come up with some way to make it work with little or no support and little or no money, each time. Perhaps past Robotech projects failed because there is no political will in the company to assign a needed budget. So each project gets going on what it can, only to fall apart without investment. The current guy/gal stuck with the Robotech account may be a person who thought the kickstarter thing was a way around the budget problem. And so here we are, with the Robotech Academy kickstarter. Anyway, just speculation. Perhaps their company structure is nothing like mine and the problems are different. It was just a thought that might explain some symptoms of the disease
Guest davidwhangchoi Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 i don't think they have hundreds of millions. maybe they have maybe a few million, enough to pay a few of the salaries of those employed. this is a: "we talk a lot of big for our dreams but don't want to risk our financial livelyhood bc our dreams are not good enough. carl's dead and we're a once in a 5 year wimper project. we're better and putting out a few comic issues. but can't go beyond that... look at our track record. we sold so thousands of copies of shadow chronicles... but not enough. for 5 years of dreaming we produced one thing.. but it's because we don't have... this or this or once this takes off we'll have this and this. but if you give us money we'll see what happens...
Jasonc Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 i don't think they have hundreds of millions. maybe they have maybe a few million, enough to pay a few of the salaries of those employed. this is a: "we talk a lot of big for our dreams but don't want to risk our financial livelyhood bc our dreams are not good enough. carl's dead and we're a once in a 5 year wimper project. we're better and putting out a few comic issues. but can't go beyond that... look at our track record. we sold so thousands of copies of shadow chronicles... but not enough. for 5 years of dreaming we produced one thing.. but it's because we don't have... this or this or once this takes off we'll have this and this. but if you give us money we'll see what happens... I don't know. Having a request to free up one offshore account with over $100,000,000 is quite a large amount, and the fact that he has a few more accounts elsewhere, we at least know they have over $100million. so far.
Seto Kaiba Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 So they're assuming the show will get picked up for an entire series? I can't begin to site the numerous examples where that thought can go wrong. Hell, every show that we see on TV is constantly on a sink-or-swim cycle. Shows have been cancelled because the network didn't want it. Jeebus, look at Community. A couple of years ago I was watching Green Lantern: The Animated Series and it was a pretty good show. Cartoon Network killed it after a season (1 season split into 2 parts, 26 episodes total). [...] Seems that way, yes... though they were, until this Kickstarter was announced, proclaiming to the fans that they wouldn't even get into development until a network gave them an episode commitment. It seems that they've finally bowed to reality on that, but that doesn't seem to have deflated their unrealistic opinion of the franchise's prospects any. They seem to think this is going to be on some major network, competing against big-name titles on an even footing. At best, this mess might end up in an infomercial time slot the way Robotech did when Canada's answer to SyFy And what distribution model are they going for? Netflix? iTunes? Dear god, Youtube? Some method for other countries that we don't use in the USA? You donors should be poking at them for info to be sure they have a solid plan for the what-if. They pulled most of their stuff from all of those already, so it doesn't seem their current distributor has any ties to those... unless they intend to find a new distributor, this might be a direct-to-video if a network doesn't pick it up. This is basically a big ransom note to the fans. "We won't do anything, unless you give us money for it, and we won't tell anymore than that." From a company that has hundreds of millions of dollars in various accounts, I can't but see this as a sham to lure the ignorant into. These people investing can read on their fund that it gives them an opportunity to be part of the production process, when in fact, all they're doing is taking their money. They have zero say so in any of it. In reality, this kinda defeats what Kickstarter was originally set up for. That's about the letter of it, yeah... though I doubt Harmony Gold itself has hundreds of millions of dollars. They're a fairly smallish company, and while Frankie-boy has a lot of dough from sources both legit and dubious floating around, we should confuse what he has for personal assets with what the small real estate company in California has to work with when all they have are a couple sets of apartment buildings in SoCal. If $500,000 for the development of a new Robotech series is a bridge too far, I doubt they're rolling in dough.
Guest davidwhangchoi Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) I don't know. Having a request to free up one offshore account with over $100,000,000 is quite a large amount, and the fact that he has a few more accounts elsewhere, we at least know they have over $100million. so far. you mean carl's family right? not HG. bc i don't think tommy has access to that money. i see an article on Harmony Gold mining company CEO having off shore accounts lol nevermind i found it: http://www.animationmagazine.net/people/harmony-gold-founder-sentenced-in-berlusconi-tax-trial/ again, i doubt Tommy or anyone in the robotech division has any access to this. Edited July 10, 2014 by davidwhangchoi
camk4evr Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 The part you bolded is legally actionable misrepresentation, should Big West wish to challenge them in court... Really? Huh. Now that I think about it, it should be leagally actionable by anybody who supports the kickstarter as well, should it succeed, since they are making fraudulent claims to secure funding. You forgot to bold "protected these rights successfully" too. But hey, they said it on Kickstarter, it must be true! Their claim about HAVING to send Creavision a legal threat is at least accurate, though I suspect it's the only true thing in the entire sales pitch. US trademark law says if you ignore violations of your trademark, you can lose it. Yeah, I stopped reading after their claim about owning the rights to Macross` derivatives.
dizman Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 Is it too much to ask for a list of the things that need to be done and the costs associated with finishing them? For example, sound effects = $10,000, designing mecha= $100,000 and so on. Maybe I just want to laugh at them justifying the costs I dunno.
EXO Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 There's a comment on there that made me laugh. It was something along the lines of a pledge not wanting to donate to the tier where they can get a likeness animated in the pilot fearing that HG would sue them if they ever post a selfie in Facebook.
skullmilitia Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 There's a comment on there that made me laugh. It was something along the lines of a pledge not wanting to donate to the tier where they can get a likeness animated in the pilot fearing that HG would sue them if they ever post a selfie in Facebook. Gold! What if you ever became an actor? could the movies get sued because you're a Robotech character? HAHA
eight_car Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Got better things to due with my money than a robLoWtech kickstarer 1) Burn it 2) Literally flush it down the toilet 3) Toss into a crowd and watch people fight 4) Get the big return from the prince somewhere in Africa..I keep getting these emails you see.... 5) Invest in the newspaper business 6) Invest in the pay phone business in the USA and many many other things Now should a kickstarter start up for buying out HG and getting the rights back to where they belong, I will be very quick to get on that!
Seto Kaiba Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Really? Huh. Now that I think about it, it should be leagally actionable by anybody who supports the kickstarter as well, should it succeed, since they are making fraudulent claims to secure funding. Yeah, I stopped reading after their claim about owning the rights to Macross` derivatives. Yep... that could, with the right lawyer, be turned into grounds for a lawsuit on Big West's part since Harmony Gold is fraudulently claiming that they own the rights to all of Macross to drum up business. Under the right circumstances, it could also be used as a piece of evidence to support claims that Harmony Gold was willfully disingenuous when they were soliciting business if it came to legal action by the backers against Harmony Gold. Either way, they oughta check themselves before they wreck themselves... making claims like that is DANGEROUS.
azrael Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Is it too much to ask for a list of the things that need to be done and the costs associated with finishing them? For example, sound effects = $10,000, designing mecha= $100,000 and so on. Maybe I just want to laugh at them justifying the costs I dunno. You want an itemized breakdown of the costs? That's going to be rough as much of it is considered labor. There's no monetary amount for designing mecha. You pay a guy to draw, edit, or compose noise for stuff. They're suppose to work on that project. That doesn't count additional costs (like you paid me for this, but I have additional fees that I'm charging to you because that stuff went toward your work, etc.) Also, I'd throw a contract at HG if I donated, like a research grant. Cuz KS funds just say that I'm donating to your project, how you spend that money on your project is up to you. They're suppose to be honest and use it toward the project but it's like a discretionary fund. I could say X-amount went to administrative costs. I needed a new car which I used to drive my ass to the post office to FedEx a letter for this project.
Einherjar Posted July 11, 2014 Author Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) This is basically a big ransom note to the fans. "We won't do anything, unless you give us money for it, and we won't tell anymore than that." From a company that has hundreds of millions of dollars in various accounts, I can't but see this as a sham to lure the ignorant into. These people investing can read on their fund that it gives them an opportunity to be part of the production process, when in fact, all they're doing is taking their money. They have zero say so in any of it. In reality, this kinda defeats what Kickstarter was originally set up for. Surely there must be some celebrities out there in the same boat willing to give this a kick in the arm, and make the whole effort moot, for their childhoods. They did get at least one before (supposedly). Edited July 11, 2014 by Einherjar
jenius Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 I would think WB would want to do this as a legitimate commercial venture. They have the means and the distribution channels. If it all worked out well then they also have the movie rights. It seems like kind of a slam dunk so the fact it's not going down that way seems scary. I know HG would claim it's because they want full control over all aspects of the production but that's kind of ridiculous given their staff.
Mommar Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 I would think WB would want to do this as a legitimate commercial venture. They have the means and the distribution channels. If it all worked out well then they also have the movie rights. It seems like kind of a slam dunk so the fact it's not going down that way seems scary. I know HG would claim it's because they want full control over all aspects of the production but that's kind of ridiculous given their staff. Warner Brother's could get it completely wrong and it would still have a high probability of being better.
Seto Kaiba Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 I would think WB would want to do this as a legitimate commercial venture. They have the means and the distribution channels. If it all worked out well then they also have the movie rights. It seems like kind of a slam dunk so the fact it's not going down that way seems scary. I know HG would claim it's because they want full control over all aspects of the production but that's kind of ridiculous given their staff. Eh... while I don't doubt for a second that Warner Bros would do that IF they considered Robotech to have considerable potential for success. As if's go, that's an if so massive that light can't escape its surface. Now, that this Kickstarter is happening at all seems like a pretty reliable indicator that Harmony Gold's in good company in having no faith in Robotech. If Warner Bros thought that Robotech had the potential to be a legitimate commercial success, we wouldn't be having this discussion. They would've green-lit the Robotech live action movie instead of sitting on the rights for seven years and counting, and they would've brought it to someone higher profile than a fifth-stringer like Sylvain White or that virtual nobody who they took it to after he passed. Harmony Gold wouldn't have needed to bastardize Love Live Alive or put up a public plea for cash like the Robotech Academy Kickstarter, because Warner Bros would be pushing this as a high profile title. But we had Love Live Alive, and now we have the Robotech Academy Kickstarter... which proves beyond a reasonable doubt the higher-ups at Harmony Gold and Warner Bros don't see Robotech as something with legitimate commercial potential. This is, as so many have pointed out, a pretty transparent cash grab thinly disguised as the development of a pilot for a new series.
Duke Togo Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 They're filming a Jem movie right the hell now, and a new Turtles movie is almost out. If WB had any faith in the property, Robotech would have gone into production a while ago.
coronadlux Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 oy! all this kickstarter business is making me woozy. In their FAQ, they says this when asked: "Why should we support Harmony Gold when they sent cease & desist letters to the Valkyrie fan film? Because Creavision, the team behind the Project Valkyrie fan film, is working on Robotech Academy! We had to send them a C&D because of outside legal obligations, but we recognized their talent and are excited to have them involved." So, you mean to tell me that they already had a kickstarter idea planned out and instead of capitalizing on the free advertising and letting Creavision finish their 3rd part, they sent the C & D... All the while in their convention panels they deny doing it! bunch of backstabbing hypocrites the lot of them! I think that bringing Creavision into this project was an after thought and their ridiculous attempt to apologize. It's like the school bully taking your lunch money. You find a way to buy lunch and next thing you know, the bully comes, sits next to you and eats off your plate!
skullmilitia Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 I can tell you right now, the big studios including WB, are not interested in anything that doesn't have a proven record Of selling tickets. Sequels, prequels, reboots, and remakes are all they really want. It's really tight right now. Kevin Smith got turned down by the Weinsteins To make Clerks 3 with only a 5 million budget. I don't think WB will ever do anything with it. Ever.
Einherjar Posted July 11, 2014 Author Posted July 11, 2014 I'd argue that they're doing a hell of a job selling something which doesn't even exist yet, including the corresponding merchandise to it that also doesn't exist yet.
Seto Kaiba Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 So, you mean to tell me that they already had a kickstarter idea planned out and instead of capitalizing on the free advertising and letting Creavision finish their 3rd part, they sent the C & D... All the while in their convention panels they deny doing it! bunch of backstabbing hypocrites the lot of them! Well, you have to remember... even though Harmony Gold initially endorsed the project and then lied to everyone about whether they had sent the Cease and Desist notice, they claim the cease and desist was the brainchild of some outside agency that they decline to name. More of Harmony Gold's classic "it's someone else's fault, honest!". I think that bringing Creavision into this project was an after thought and their ridiculous attempt to apologize. It's like the school bully taking your lunch money. You find a way to buy lunch and next thing you know, the bully comes, sits next to you and eats off your plate! Eh, if Creavision's thick enough to take them up on it, who's more foolish... the fool or the fool who follows him?
JB0 Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Is it too much to ask for a list of the things that need to be done and the costs associated with finishing them? For example, sound effects = $10,000, designing mecha= $100,000 and so on. Maybe I just want to laugh at them justifying the costs I dunno. "1000 kilos of blow HIGH-QUALITY ANIMATION"
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