Kanedas Bike Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 http://www.hkcollectibles.com/macross-robotech/6958-vf-19-fire-valkyrie-basara-nekki.html Might actually buy it just to have it at that price. Hmm... @Veef, poor, poor Destroids. -b. Quote
Knightdramon Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 Looks like the new one is in a darker shade of red and in gold instead of in yellow... I might actually have to get this one and I passed on the old VF-19 Kai. And I would advice you to sell your old VF-19 Kai's because when the new one gets available the value of the old one will drop like a rock. LOL what value? The VF19 Kai and the VF19S [especially the S] are the cheapest valkyries you can get at the moment. I got mine already discounted at like 12.000 or so yen, and even if I wanted to sell it, I doubt I'd make that money back. Quote
Chronocidal Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 (edited) Oh wow, HKC still has some stock of the 19s, not to mention VF-17s and VF-17 super packs.. I had no idea. Tempted to buy a 4th VF-19P to customize... They even have the 30th DYRL VF-1A CF for about $100. Edited May 24, 2014 by Chronocidal Quote
ULessa Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 Daheck, HKcollectibles had a VF25 Ozma Renewal for $180... Urggggggggggggh Back on topic. Any reason why the VF-19s are so cheap now? Really tempted to get one but I kind of want to get Bandais DX series more. Well, mainly because I prefer the modern Valks alot more than the old stubby ones. The VF-19's battroid mode is growing on me alot more now though (GERWALK is just derpy for me :X) Quote
YF-29 Durandal Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 LOL what value? The VF19 Kai and the VF19S [especially the S] are the cheapest valkyries you can get at the moment. I got mine already discounted at like 12.000 or so yen, and even if I wanted to sell it, I doubt I'd make that money back. $120 isn't so bad as a value for a used plastic toy... most Macross fans are spoilt with VT-1's and VE-1's and VF-1D Virgin Road's and VF-4G's going for a premium. Quote
jvmacross Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 That's a lot of Macross 7 valks warming the shelfs of HKC! I hope retailer feedback does not deter Arcadia (is that even taken into consideration?) into making a few more valks I'd like to see from that series.....namely some Varauta valks, the rest of FB....and the VF-5000 and VA-3...... I'd be interested in hearing the perspective of a retailer like HKC regarding toys in general that do not end up selling well....are they given a chance at corresponding with the manufacturer's in regards to suggestions or opinions on what they believe would sell or not sell well at market? Perhaps only feedback from the largest retailers weighs in on any product development? Quote
Knightdramon Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 Daheck, HKcollectibles had a VF25 Ozma Renewal for $180... Urggggggggggggh Back on topic. Any reason why the VF-19s are so cheap now? Really tempted to get one but I kind of want to get Bandais DX series more. Well, mainly because I prefer the modern Valks alot more than the old stubby ones. The VF-19's battroid mode is growing on me alot more now though (GERWALK is just derpy for me :X) 19S is so cheap because it got a reissue along the lines, and it didn't sell too well. So there was an oversaturation on the market for a valkyrie that wasn't as popular as Yamato thought it'd be. Right around that point this fandom had a collective "oh I'll wait until it's 40-50% off", resulting in any sales for non discounted VFs being near zero. $120 isn't so bad as a value for a used plastic toy... most Macross fans are spoilt with VT-1's and VE-1's and VF-1D Virgin Road's and VF-4G's going for a premium. My point was more for the original being so cheap and still plentiful on the market there's no resale value in "used" samples. At the very best, people like me who got their VF19 for very cheap will just break even, everybody else will lose money. VF19 Kai, VF19S and the VF17S are still so oversaturated their "regular" market price is below their original retail price. Quote
YF-29 Durandal Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 Ah okay and it's funny that the Macross 7 valks are so undesirable. Quote
mechaninac Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 (edited) That's because Macross 7 itself is so undesirable. Arcadia better wise up and either reduce their price point considerably (unlikely due to licensing and production costs), or offer these niche-within-a-niche toys as built-to-order web exclusives like the VF-4G and YF-19 (and both, specially Isamu's ride, were far more popular than anything from M7), or the company won't be long in business. The way I see it, reissuing the VF-19 Kai this soon, without any retooling to address the shortcomings of the previous release (ankle design, non-removable intake covers, inability to mount Fast Packs, downward pointing gun-pod -- I know the Kai's gun bends to somewhat ameliorate this... but still) and with plenty of unsold stock of the original, is just bone-headed, despite the addition of tiny PVC figures, the ridiculous (IMO) Sound Booster, and gold in place of yellow (an improvement to be sure, but not enough of one... blame Kawamori though). If Arcadia truly wants to entice people to their version of the VF-19s, they should fix what needs fixing with the toy's engineering by doing a bit of retooling, and while they're at it (for me at least), change the tool cavities' finishes to give us matt versions of this bird. Edited May 24, 2014 by mechaninac Quote
VF5SS Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 Find me a shop in Japan that still has the Fire Valkyrie in stock. Quote
mechaninac Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 Did you read the previous posts? Brick and Mortar stores are not the only option. Quote
VF5SS Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 I just skim over endless "I hate Macross 7" posts honestly. Saves on the repetition. What's even the point of even bringing up shops outside of Japan still having these toys in stock? That's not Macross's market. Quote
Knightdramon Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 Because we're talking about the market value. Not specifically about any allocated stock in the general geographic vicinity of Japan. And the fact that Arcadia is about to re-release, with minor tweaks, something that can still be found on ebay and some online stores for less than its original retail was. Quote
mechaninac Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 There was no Macross 7 hatred expressed, only statements of well known opinion, in tongue in cheek fashion (you'd think was a dead giveaway), regarding the desirability of M7 VFs at their MSRP, and a way for Arcadia to work around that market limitation. Methinks VF5SS is just engaging in a knee-jerk defense of M7 due to his own hang-ups regarding his love of that bit of Macross and disregard of others' views of same, and willfully ignoring the marketability of items related to that particular property. The availability of Yamato's VF-19Kai and VF-19S at deeply discounted prices at HKC, Angolz, and others, speaks volumes. Quote
Kanedas Bike Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 Regardless of personal taste it's just going to take a lot to convince folks to double-dip, especially so soon and especially if the original is still *available. I get the anniversary of Macross 7 is this year, and really that's cool but I think if Arcadia is going with this release they'd be better served making it to order and not more than that. -b. Quote
jvmacross Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 What about the secondary market in Japan? Does that count? http://page9.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k178083623 http://page10.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m121193002 http://page9.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k178083623 http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w99447457 ..and some closed auctions....at MSRP or below it....... http://page17.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/v345619316 http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/183836559 http://page8.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/h188249232 ..and I won't get started with Mandarake listings and sold VF-19 Kai's.....well, what the heck! http://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/shop/en/item_s-738429.html http://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/shop/en/item_s-1281291.html http://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/shop/en/item_s-738428.html http://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/shop/en/item_s-1409880.html http://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/shop/en/item_s-738538.html http://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/shop/en/item_s-1121389.html http://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/shop/en/item_s-1152625.html http://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/shop/en/item_s-1140640.html So I guess VF-19 Kai's are readily available even in Japan....... The point is that Japanese collectors will go through the same lengths that the rest of the world does when it comes to collecting this junk......they will comb the internet and any other source to get what they want......until it is all ravaged and the only stock left, if in extreme demand, is selling in the after-market at way higher than MSRP prices...... are there any VF-19 Kai's warming some Japanese brink and mortar shops or resale shops? Probably (well, yes, actually)....but I'm not going to fly the friendly skies just to prove it (use the internet Luke!)..... Are there any VF-4's doing the same?..........HECK NO!!!! And I do not need to go to Japan to feel pretty good about that assertion! BTW I like Macross 7!!! Quote
Sandman Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 I intially thought this was a bad move on Arcadias part. However used kais are showing up more frequently at jungle and mandarake which makes me think people are selling them in anticipation of the new reissue. Has it been said yet if these are made to order? Quote
Frogze Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 I already have a Kai with Soundbooster and love it but I'm more tempted than I'd like to be by this release. The price will be the only issue for me as I'd love to have a second one for fighter display especially with gold trims. And the added figures look cool, I wish they were released with the soundbooster back then. Quote
ULessa Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 The VF-19S is really really tempting me now. It's growing on me fast I just wish the Kai's mouth piece wasn't white and sticks out so much Quote
close313 Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 The VF-19S is really really tempting me now. It's growing on me fast I just wish the Kai's mouth piece wasn't white and sticks out so much You can switch the mouthpiece with the extra one included So ya gonna buy one now? I tell you, its one of the best valk toys in existence if you don't have one. Quote
ULessa Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 (edited) You can switch the mouthpiece with the extra one included So ya gonna buy one now? I tell you, its one of the best valk toys in existence if you don't have one. Extra one? I thought it was either the mouth piece on or off. I will buy one eventually as I'm aiming for a DX YF-29 right now and I just ordered a RAH neo Eva unit 1. Contemplating cancelling the Eva but that 18 inch monster of a figure is too hard to resist too EDIT: okay so it was a different piece. I think I know why the head bothers me now. Its the nose. The whole head is too humanoid so thats why I lean towards the VF-19S (also that the VF-19S has more color on it, well to be exact just the leg part that makes it look more balanced than the empty Kai) Edited May 25, 2014 by ULessa Quote
Loop Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 I already have 2x of the Yamato Kai and 1x sound booster. The way the value on these are going, I am temped to unbox the nib one I have and leave it in fighter mode to display with the sound boosted battroid display I have on display now. This new one is kinda tempting, but so hard to justify. If I did get it would prob sit in the box in the closet. I have a feeling the price point is going to make me shy away. The other thing that bothers me is that it seems too soon on Arcadia's part to release this again. I really want to support Arcadia, but they seem to make questionable decisions on releases. I know, I know, we are not the target market and Mac7 is wildly popular in JP. Quote
jvmacross Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 Whether in the "target Japanese market" or not...... Gold pimp accents and a 1/60 FB figurine set..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apl7RhwMW0E Quote
Guest davidwhangchoi Posted May 27, 2014 Posted May 27, 2014 (edited) Find me a shop in Japan that still has the Fire Valkyrie in stock. in fairness i think i may have to agree that it may have sold well in japan. or at least that possibility. only statements of well known opinion, regarding the desirability of M7 VFs at their MSRP, and a way for Arcadia to work around that market limitation. The availability of Yamato's VF-19Kai and VF-19S at deeply discounted prices at HKC, Angolz, and others, speaks volumes. What about the secondary market in Japan? Does that count? So I guess VF-19 Kai's are readily available even in Japan....... The point is that Japanese collectors will go through the same lengths that the rest of the world does when it comes to collecting this junk......they will comb the internet and any other source to get what they want......until it is all ravaged and the only stock left, if in extreme demand, is selling in the after-market at way higher than MSRP prices...... are there any VF-19 Kai's warming some Japanese brink and mortar shops or resale shops? Probably (well, yes, actually)....but I'm not going to fly the friendly skies just to prove it (use the internet Luke!)..... Are there any VF-4's doing the same?..........HECK NO!!!! And I do not need to go to Japan to feel pretty good about that assertion! BTW I like Macross 7!!! in fairness, it's hard to judge the fire valk sold well or not based on aftermarket and clearance prices alone. i think there's other factors to consider. first off, the fire valk may have been printed in large numbers because it is popular and sold well. similar to roy's vf-1s arcadia or every previous roy re-release (with the exception of the 30th anniversary w/option part roy releases which were very low in print especially the roy tv white 30th w/ option parts. that went OOP fast.) prior to the roy 30th version. the standard yamato roy vf-1s 1/60 tv white valk was a looooooong staple on every store front and on clearance at every store. hkc, angloz, hlj. i got mine on 50% clearance on hlj. and they kept getting re-stocked after selling out. does that mean yamato roy tv white was not a big seller? no, it's quite the opposite. the jolly rogers scheme is the most popular selling vf-1 paint scheme. yamato just printed a whole lot of them. so alot of stores put them on clearance to move inventory. hikaru's vf-1j, and the main stream DYRL skull squad valks, all these were re-released updated with non rainbow canopys and 1/48 style crotches. i think the mainstream valks sold well to the general public and were re-printed: the vf-1d virgin was a shelf warmer as well as the vf-1j mass production as well as the VT-1 super ostrich. the Max and Miria 1/60 1J's were printed low bc yamato adjusted lower numbers seeing the 1/48 M&M were over printed and not selling out. while the roy was being reprinted as well as the vf-1a max vf-1j hikaru, the aftermarket prices of these specialty valks that weren't hero or mainstream, now are high since they're no longer avail. and we could mistakenly conclude they are hugely popular big sellers and that's why the prices are so jacked up bc they sold out fast. the truth is they are in demand now because though they didn't sell as the roy vf-1s tv white or the other mainstream valks. once they were gone after clearance. yamato never reprinted them and people hunted for them and couldn't find them making them rare.... these once non great sellers at retail transformed into highly desirable collectibles. a case can be made for the vf-4g as well. i think it was yamato's fans service to the hardcore or hardcore of collectors but not the macross fans that buy mainstream popular valks. we all know roy vf-1s is way more popular and sold way more than the max and miria and Vt-1 and virgin road. though roy tv was always on clearance at every store listed so a case could be made that the fire valk in japan is poplar and a good seller even if they are still found on clearance at hkc. i would venture to say that the fire valk may be more popluar than M7's 11c. but we wouldn't think that based on the after market values of each (the 11c was a shelf warmer that now commands 300+ in the secondary market while the fire is still avail on clearance) Arcadia is probably releasing the fire to first cater to japan and second, it's the anniversary of M7. They know the rare valks sell less than popular valks but in the long run the secondary market demands is what keeps them relevant. i think they're trying to get the popular valks out in Japan while catering to the collectors as well case in point: the vf-1s roy, hikaru, and now the vf-19 kai. while to the hardcore (vf-0d and a 330+ yf-19 version 3) i would agree with the posts that MW are mainly international hardcore collectors and that Arcadia should cater to the international Macross collector crowd. as the market for macross toys is small and it's a good idea to be in tune with what international Macross fans want. Raising prices on roy hikaru which everyone probably has a copy previously and a fire valk that's currently clearance doesn't really cater to us. but i think Arcadia thinks Japan's Macross fans will be into the re-release of the fire valk. as much as i hate Bandai's tactics, they are doing it right by doing everything in their power as possible to control things to be rare and out of print. making their valks highly desirable even if they are crappy triangles and loose joints and paint scratching off. i think their strategy is aimed at the macross collectors who love hard to find stuff with Japan in mind first and they don't even think about international fans but we love to get them regardless. they understand how impulsive and panicky collectors can get. and i agree this fire valks doesn't seem motivate the collector crowd. but it still may sell well in Japan. Edited May 27, 2014 by davidwhangchoi Quote
Chronocidal Posted May 27, 2014 Posted May 27, 2014 I have to disagree with one point about Bandai "doing it right"... they've gone so far in the opposite direction from Yamato, keeping things very low in print, and refusing to reissue them despite overwhelming demand, they wind up hurting themselves and the fans. The only people their tactics benefit in the long run are the webshop scalpers. I understand wanting to avoid any sort of risk, but the way they treat the franchise and fanbase is more like outright paranoia. If they are soooo scared of overproducing anything to even the slightest degree, then they should move to an entirely made-to-order system, and actually produce the numbers people want instead of the nonsense scalper's holiday it has become. Quote
jvmacross Posted May 27, 2014 Posted May 27, 2014 and i agree this fire valks doesn't seem motivate the collector crowd. but it still may sell well in Japan. Actually, that is exactly the subset of customer that will need to be motivated enough to buy this "repaint"....anyone who wanted one should have one by now.....the glut of available Kai's is due to either overproduction or just lack of interest......the point is you can find one in Japan if you are in the market for one and you will pay less than MSRP for it....so why would the average collector, you know, the collector who makes the argument that he/she is being "priced-out"...that Macross is becoming too expensive.....are they going to buy this re-issue now that it will certainly be way more expensive with the addition of the booster pack and 1/60 FB figurines set?.....unlikely Thus the only customers left are the hard core collector/completist.....and the regular collectors that never got one in the first place...either due to lack of interest or difficulty with justifying the price....if lack of interest...why get one now?....If price...well, I am pretty sure it will be way more expensive now....plus there are plenty of lower priced original releases to choose from..... I have a feeling this will be a very limited release...thus potentially making it a "hot" item....so Arcadia may be taking the Bandai route on this release...we'll have to see what happens.....It would not surprise me to see this release go either way.....hot collectible or another shelf-warmer...... Quote
Guest davidwhangchoi Posted May 27, 2014 Posted May 27, 2014 Actually, that is exactly the subset of customer that will need to be motivated enough to buy this "repaint"....anyone who wanted one should have one by now.... i was thinking the same of vf-1s roy and hikaru... but since it's the anniversary of M7 there can be opportunity of renewed interest or new fans getting it.... i remember my favorite 80's movie: Top Gun was so old and irrelevant but when they came out with a 25th anniversary edition, Paramount just repackaged the same dvd added some bonus commentary 2nd disc and it sold some more copies. perhaps arcadia is thinking along the same lines. Quote
jvmacross Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 i was thinking the same of vf-1s roy and hikaru... but since it's the anniversary of M7 there can be opportunity of renewed interest or new fans getting it.... i remember my favorite 80's movie: Top Gun was so old and irrelevant but when they came out with a 25th anniversary edition, Paramount just repackaged the same dvd added some bonus commentary 2nd disc and it sold some more copies. perhaps arcadia is thinking along the same lines. Indeed....pulling the nostalgia card can be a powerful marketing tool.... We'll find out soon enough how powerful it is when it involves shelling out 30,000+ JPY for essentially a non-canon repaint in order to indulge in such nostalgic reminiscences... Quote
Kanedas Bike Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 You know, out of that great discussion the only thing I'm taking away is that Arcadia needs to re-issue the M&M VF-1J's, the DYRL Max VF-1S and VF-1D along with a few of the non-canon schemes like the mass production VF-1J and Cavaliers VF-1A. Bah humbug -b. Quote
RyuRoots Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 You know, out of that great discussion the only thing I'm taking away is that Arcadia needs to re-issue the M&M VF-1J's, the DYRL Max VF-1S and VF-1D along with a few of the non-canon schemes like the mass production VF-1J and Cavaliers VF-1A. Bah humbug -b. I thought we actually DID see a brown VF-1J somewhere in the early eps of SDFM? Quote
Kanedas Bike Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 I thought we actually DID see a brown VF-1J somewhere in the early eps of SDFM? Maybe? I guess I'm making an assumption about the "cannon-ality" ( ) of the Mass Prod VF-1J. -b. Quote
Chronocidal Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 The Cavaliers and brownie VF-1J were both one-shots from the series that got maybe a few seconds of screen time total.. They're just those rare schemes people have always thought would be neat to have, and Yamato figured they could milk their molds a bit more. Quote
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