NEW MACROSS TV SERIES ANNOUNCED!

[Marzan]

It's good to read that Kawamori has given a lot of thought to 'how' the music part the Macross triangle will be included. At the sake of becoming repetitive, I'd rather they take their sweet time and come up with a good concept and a solid script. If they can do that (and I think they suceeded with Frontier) then the show will be a hit.

And development of new audiences with 'contemporary content' is a must if we want more Macross in the future. Nostalgia will only get you so far.

[JB0]

Personally, I think a sequel needs to bring something new to the table. Otherwise, what's the point?

It's a big universe, there's a lot more to see.

While I dislike Macross 7's take on things, I appreciate it for what it wasn't. It would've been so easy to just say "let's do SDF Macross all over again" and made a show with no personality of it's own, but they decided to take the express train to Crazyville, population: Basara instead.

And then when they decided to do a direct sequel to Macross 7, they decided to shake things up anyways, and Dynamite 7 spent most of it's time far far away from the fleet that had set the stage for the entire TV series dealing with more "down to Earth" problems.

Of course, even DYRL chose to portray a MUCH different story than what came before, and it was allegedly remaking the TV series.

[VF5SS]

People likes old bands but they don't tend to like the old bands new albums.

Just my two cents.

Speak for yourself.

This guy just released an amazing new album and it's some of his best work yet!

[Dynaman]

Al is in a class by himself though.

[Renato]

For the record, Kawamori has said many times that whenever he is asked to do another Macross sequel he has been told "but please, PLEASE do not change the concept any more than Macross 7!" That to me sounds like 7 is the one that is the most mold-breaking.

The message of the original Macross is that culture and love can overcome violence... but they use violence to blow Bodolza up in either version. M7 basically fixed that, eliminating any contradictions in the "message" of Macross. It's as far as the concept can go. For Frontier, notice that they went back to "OK, let's blow the bad guy up".

[VF5SS]

Yeah but when the original band members are no longer apart of the group it makes going to see them in concert a little less special, wouldn't you agree? They wouldn't sound quite the same as you remembered when they were all together (either in concert or on new albums).

Well they often don't sound the same anyways just due to getting older. In the case of Journey, would you rather have an aging singer who is disinterested in his own work or the new talent who really puts on a show because he knows everyone is going to be comparing him to the other guy?

A new incarnation can't replace the achievements of the original, but the world does stop moving and trying to keep things as close to their origins just isn't realistic. It's better to maintain the spirit rather than the letter of the work because otherwise time will wear it down.

Edited July 24, 2014 by VF5SS

[JB0]

For the record, Kawamori has said many times that whenever he is asked to do another Macross sequel he has been told "but please, PLEASE do not change the concept any more than Macross 7!" That to me sounds like 7 is the one that is the most mold-breaking.

The message of the original Macross is that culture and love can overcome violence... but they use violence to blow Bodolza up in either version. M7 basically fixed that, eliminating any contradictions in the "message" of Macross. It's as far as the concept can go. For Frontier, notice that they went back to "OK, let's blow the bad guy up".

Except that in Macross 7, it's not love and culture that saves the day. It's "anima spiritia." Sound energy. Magic.

And that's really my biggest gripe with it, is it had a ripple effect that redefined everything. Sudden;y Minmay isn't just a girl who was in the right place at the right time anymore. She's a high-level anima spiritia with wildly high sound energy. The zentradi weren't going into culture shock, they were brainwashed by the power of her song.

If Basara'd been there, one song is all it would've taken to convert the entire fleet. No, really. Watch Fleet of the Strongest Women. It's hilarious, and I love it, but... it's just plain WRONG in the context of the franchise as a whole.

I'm far from the most vocal Macross 7 detractor. I think it's a fun show at times, and mostly suffers from being too long for the amount of content they have and focusing on the wrong character quite a bit. But... I can't forgive Dr. Chiba, and most of all I can't forgive him for being RIGHT.

Anyways... yeah, it's definitely the mold-breaker. Thankfully, they managed to fix the mold back up a bit later.

[Nekko Basara]

I took "Fleet of the Strongest Women" to be tongue-in-cheek parody. And it's not just parodying M7; it's parodying SDFM. It's actually the closest to the original that the M7 ever gets - the fleet meets actual Zentraedi (Meltrandi), it responds with a Minmay-style attack, and (after various difficulties) succeeds in absurd fashion. Beyond being thrown into disarray and/or changing sides as in SDFM, DYRL, and M2, the enemy is reduced to raving fangirls.

As you say, it's hilarious. I don't think it's supposed to warp the canon.

[VF5SS]

Except that in Macross 7, it's not love and culture that saves the day. It's "anima spiritia." Sound energy. Magic.

Except it is love and culture that save the day. Anime spiritia is just a mechanism for the action but it's the way characters like Gigil and Sivil learn about being more human that ultimately changes things. Basara sang all he wanted but even he realized there was more to it than just using the Sound Boosters and anima spiritia. He tried to understand the Protodeviln in many ways and nearly gave his life to save Gigil and Sivil from death on a few occasions.

The rest of your post seems to be misinterpreting Dr. Chiba honestly. You're treating this like it's the midichlorians from Star Wars run rampant.

[Mr March]

Oihan
I don't mind if you bring up my old posts. Your post is the kind that actually invites discussion

I believe I understand where you are coming from with this, but I think at this point we're closer to a discussion of "people" rather than a discussion of entertainment. I'd also say that sequels that depart from the original is not "familiarity breeding contempt", it's the opposite; entertainment that doesn't appeal to fans of the original because it's too different. But let's get back to people and go with it.

I'm glad you brought up music and bands, because for many pop music makes understanding the cycle of popular entertainment easier. I would say that bands and music are more of a broad spectrum rather than either/or. There are bands that change dramatically to work in different genres entirely. Their are bands who meld genres into their own over time. There are bands that change only slightly as they go. And there are bands that stay with their familiar sound for their entire career.

To concede a point to you, I do admit some fans prefer the same thing unending ("prefer" being debateable). But these fans are in the minority and seem to be folks that choose their favorite popular culture at a young age, rigidly defining this music - and ONLY this music - as "good" for the rest of their lives. At the other end of the spectrum, you have people that must always have something new. out with the old, in with the new. Nature abhors a vacuum, and all that sorta crap.

The vast majority of people fall somewhere in between the two extremes, which I'm going to assume is you and me. One need only look at sales figures of popular music, movies and other entertainment over time to see that the majority of folks leave a particular creator once familiarity has bred contempt. All things being equal, popular culture itself doesn't suck over time; it's because fans are bored of it.

This will no doubt lead to your next question; if people are bored with the pop culture they consume, why don't they get into something else? Well, some folks do. But the majority of folks will not enjoy new popular culture as much as they liked the pop culture of old. They become inured as time goes on. New popular culture becomes too different than that which came before. "Why don't they make good music/movies/anime anymore?" "Kids these days like crap, they don't know good music/movies/anime." But if great pop culture is independent of the audience (objectively existing in the past, in the present and future) why do so many people - particularly older people - think like this?

Because humans naturally lose the ability to adapt with age

Now, bringing this all back to Macross (*phew*), yes there are some folks for who even productions like Macross Plus and Macross 7 were a bridge too far. The format was changed too much too fast and some fans found themselves left behind or alienated by the very anime franchise that they adore. No wonder tempers flared and wars erupted. But once again, most folks are moderates and will both embrace some change over time and reject some change over time. This is true even though we adapt less as we age. This is why you saw some Macross fans actually warm to Macross Plus and Macross 7 as the years have passed. At the date of release, productions like Macross Plus and Macross 7 was too much change too fast for some fans who were still in awe of the original era SDF Macross/DYRL/FB2012. As these fans aged and as more modern pop culture is perceived by them as too different, they revisited older pop culture. When viewed in the current context of popular culture, the fans that once disliked Macross Plus and Macross 7 find these productions have more in common with SDF Macross than with Macross Frontier.

And so we end with you and I. Where do we sit in all this? Well, like I said above, every Macross fan is at their own speed when it comes to the pop culture they enjoy. For you, Macross 7 is as far as you ever want to see Macross go. Fair enough. For me? I'm not really sure where the line is drawn for the end of Macross just yet. I'm the kind of guy that would rather risk falling too far over that line than stay too damned close on the safe, comfortable, and dull inside of it. However, I have said and will always say this of Macross 7; better to have an interesting failure like Macross 7 than an uninteresting bore like Macross Zero. Too each their own.

Nekko Basara
Yes, that's a very good point. Macross is also a rather unique franchise in which it generally disappears from popular culture in the years between major productions. So much has changed in 30 years, anime itself has gone through "generations" in terms of the industry. So there are indeed rather large divides in the fan base. It wouldn't surprise me if someone told me Macross has the fewest "older fans" of most long running anime franchises.

YF-29 Durandal
To paraphrase Coach from Left 4 Dead; "Hell yeah, I own ALL their albums, even their new stuff that ain't no good".

JBO
A man after my own heart. Wanna get married?

[VF5SS]

I'm starting to think it ill behooves us all to use reductionist terms like "failure" and "magic" but only to certain series. So many Macross series have had handwaved happenstance (quite literally like when Ranka cures Sheryl of her v-type infection) that pointing fingers at one for doing a particular thing but downplaying the same "magic" in another is being too dismissive.

Honestly looking back even DYRL has a lot of barely disguised magic in it but then again that's the nature of a fictional production made by human beings. Storytelling flaws happen even at the most key moments.

[YF-29 Durandal]

Speak for yourself.

This guy just released an amazing new album and it's some of his best work yet!

Well... Weird Al Yankovic is a special case.

Edited July 25, 2014 by YF-29 Durandal

[Oihan]

You all make a lot of good points. It's said that the only constant in life is change and I agree that without change things can go stale. By that same token, I would argue that people naturally resist change as they are more comfortable with what they are familiar with - no one likes to be uncomfortable. My fondest memory of Macross is obviously SDFM as I grew up on it and it's what got me hooked. I know that's not the case for everyone else. My love of Macross seems to be one of the few constants in my life...if that makes any sense. I'm sure the same goes for everyone else here when I say this...I just don't want to be left feeling disappointed and alienated.

[JB0]

Except it is love and culture that save the day. Anime spiritia is just a mechanism for the action but it's the way characters like Gigil and Sivil learn about being more human that ultimately changes things. Basara sang all he wanted but even he realized there was more to it than just using the Sound Boosters and anima spiritia. He tried to understand the Protodeviln in many ways and nearly gave his life to save Gigil and Sivil from death on a few occasions.

The rest of your post seems to be misinterpreting Dr. Chiba honestly. You're treating this like it's the midichlorians from Star Wars run rampant.

In all honesty, I think Dr. Chiba's work IS a bit like midichlorians, only in reverse.

They had a good solid argument(when exposed to culture, people raised as machines start acting like people instead of machines), and converted it to an ill-defined "force" of some sort.

I would be much happier with Macross 7 if Dr. Chiba wasn't there at all, or if the sound boosters had no visible effect(leaving room for doubt that they actually did anything at all).

You make good counterpoints, but I still hate the idea of taking the concept of culture shock and making it a quantifiable energy.

Heck, I'd even be happy if they HAD sound energy but didn't try to draw a connection between it and what happened in SDFM. But the entire PREMISE of Dr. Chiba's research is that Minmay was uniquely special, her singing, specifically, was pivotal to the entire war, and someone ought to figure out why. And since his research produces visible results... well, it stands to reason that his foundation hypothesis was RIGHT.

I'm starting to think it ill behooves us all to use reductionist terms like "failure" and "magic" but only to certain series. So many Macross series have had handwaved happenstance (quite literally like when Ranka cures Sheryl of her v-type infection) that pointing fingers at one for doing a particular thing but downplaying the same "magic" in another is being too dismissive.

Oh, I have gripes with Frontier, as well. Don't think I blame Mac7 solely for all the franchise's missteps.

I won't even claim that SDF is perfect.

And certainly, I am probably guilty of grossly oversimplifying things in my criticism. I do still see sound energy as akin to magic, though.

Honestly looking back even DYRL has a lot of barely disguised magic in it but then again that's the nature of a fictional production made by human beings. Storytelling flaws happen even at the most key moments.

I honestly don't remember anything overtly magical in DYRL aside from Misa being able to read alien song lyrics at first glance.

Though I find it to be incomplete at best and view it more as gorgeous eyecandy than an example of masterful and compelling writing(speaking of flame bait...).

Again, I'm not really a hardcore Mac7 hater. I think it has it's good points, and don't regret watching it. And Dynamite 7 is pure awesome. I even actually like Basara(in spite of my argument that he was a lousy choice for main character).

But Dr. Chiba is my arch-nemesis of the week, and he shall have no Quarter!

[VF5SS]

You make good counterpoints, but I still hate the idea of taking the concept of culture shock and making it a quantifiable energy.

Heck, I'd even be happy if they HAD sound energy but didn't try to draw a connection between it and what happened in SDFM. But the entire PREMISE of Dr. Chiba's research is that Minmay was uniquely special, her singing, specifically, was pivotal to the entire war, and someone ought to figure out why. And since his research produces visible results... well, it stands to reason that his foundation hypothesis was RIGHT.

But in the end the show only proved Dr. Chiba was right when it came to affecting the Protodeviln. When they met up with the Meltrandi fleet, the Sound Boosters did not work on them. Even when Mylene sang only a few Queadluun Raus launched without permission to meet her and that seemed to more just them liking her music. It took Basara sans Sound Boosters to actually achieve results and things happened in the expected DYRL way with the Meltrandi fleet going gaga over their new found love of culture. It makes sense that's how they wanted it to play out since the main writer and series composition guy for Macross 7 (Sukehiro Tomita) was the writer for DYRL and most of SDFM.

So what actually happened is Dr. Chiba's hypothesis was wrong but he managed to get results anyways. He just managed to be in the right place at the right time which is not unlike the idol he worshiped so much.

And in the end even spinoffs like the PSP games and Macross 30 only associate Song Energy with Fire Bomber members with other singers not having the same effect on enemies.

Although Plus and 7 are still pretty thematically linked when you think about it. Sharon has many of the same powers as the Protodeviln (mind control, control over technology), it's just that she's a big black box of [TECH] so no one questions it.

[Nekko Basara]

Although I think that the Sound Boosters and visible song energy exist in M7 mainly so that "fighting with music" could be turned into a more visual and super-robot-like experience, I want to expand on what veef said about Sharon Apple. Song becomes visible, tangible, and magical in many of the Macross series, not just M7 and Plus.

Sharon had mind control powers and was able to physically manifest herself via holograms (even in places where this made little sense from the available hardware, like the YF-19 cockpit), as well as physically manipulate technology in a pseudo-magical way (like making presumably inert cables move).

In Macross II, humanity's Minmay attacks were accompanied by massive holographic representations of the singer. The way the SDF-1/Alus awakens for Ishtar is also quasi-magical.

Zero had song lifting stones and eventually making the (non-Frontier) Flying Rock event, and the Shin's narrow escape / resurrection and departure is rife with both visible and tangible magic, or technology indistinguishable from it.

In Frontier (where the real Macross mitichlorians show up in Ranka's tummy), song powers fold energy in ways that are crucial to the plot but barely explained. Song visually manifests itself in the giant Ranka that presides over the final battle and replaces the Vajra queen.

Some of these instances can be explained as holograms or other technology, some perhaps as metaphor, but my point is that song energy becoming visible and having real, magic-like qualities within the story is actually the norm for Macross after SDFM/DYRL. I can't say if this is intended to retcon the original story, expand upon it, or is just something done for the benefit of the viewing audience, but I suspect it's a bit of each.

[Cdr Fokker]

Depeche Mode has been making music for almost 35 years. Although their lineup hasn't changed very much, they've gone through many shifts in style, sound, and themes across thirteen albums. It is rare to find a fan who loves every single thing they've done - I certainly don't.

I do. (Well, at least I can say there is something from every album that I thoroughly enjoy, even if I still prefer some albums over others.)

More in line with what we're talking about here, though you can hear how the styles change and the band evolved over time, there's still that certain something that ties it all together - that is, at a certain level, it still all sounds like DM.

And that's really all you need. You don't necessarily need very particular, objective things for things to feel as though they belong. IMO, we could have a fairly "radical" departure from the "3 pillars" and yet still end up with an excellent series that would feel right in line with the rest of them.

The one point I would argue is that you need great music; it doesn't necessarily have to win the day or otherwise really be _that_ important to the plot, but it should _be there_. For example, maybe follow a Minmay Guard-esque unit or something. Music would be often featured, but would not necessarily be the focus, and doesn't necessarily factor into any kind of deus ex machina.

Personally, I would love to see something in the vein of M7, but with more focus on the death and destruction as a way of highlighting Basara's pacifist stance. (IMO, it was a missed opportunity - there is an enormous amount of death and destruction in 7, but it's really glossed over for the most part, and I feel that making things grittier in that respect would have really underscored how committed Basara was and, to an extent, why - the why being to prevent _any_ death and destruction in the first place, so as to not inflict the same suffering on your enemies that they are causing you at the moment.)

[skullmilitia]

I'll put it this way, if you want one of the three pillars of Macross removed, feel free to watch

A different show. Some of us like all of Macross, and like the recipe.

Have faith in Kawamori!

[treatment]

Honestly, I don't think the recipe is the issue at all.

It think it is just how the recipe is used/cooked.

Fans like me love the sdfm/dyrl/plus/II/zero flavors of the recipes.

Alot of the japanese fans love the M7 flavor of the recipe.

There's a bunch of other fans that just love the Frontier recipe.

:shrugs:

fwiw and imho, a Macross series has to sell these for BigWest:

-- mecha (bandai/arcadia/etc)

-- music (victor)

-- idols (figure makers)

I reckon they should just re-hire Shinichiro Watanabe to helm this new upcoming tv-series. He'll do a fine Macross Champloo Dandy Bebop series...

[technoblue]

I love the food analogy! And after what I've been reading on the boards, I would add a few more details.

A full course Macross would certainly exist for those of us who like every recipe (this would work for those like skullmilitia and me).

A small main course of SDFM, for those who prefer the strict traditional recipe, without any flare (I know there a few here who would opt for this dish).

A slightly larger meal that includes SDFM, DYRL, and Plus as the main course, and Frontier as dessert.

Most likely, Zero is an appetizer that will inspire only a handful, like a fresh, raw seafood spread.

Macross 7 is the culture shock: a truly funky recipe that incorporates a new ingredient, and a lot of spice and creativity. One has to try it before they can judge it. And even then, not everyone will walk away appreciating the taste.

I wouldn't mind if a new series was more creative and off the rails like Macross 7. I would like to see what everyone involved (including Kawamori) would do when pushing the limits of the Macross formula today.

Edited July 26, 2014 by technoblue

[D.D. Ivanov]

I just want to see more VF-22s.

[Raptor One]

I still think a Macross: The Ride series (or OVA) could be really successful. It has the potential to have the same appeal as Gundam Build Fighters: Dream matches with custom versions of all your favourite mecha. If they tweak it to add some more actual inter-valkyrie combat for the competition, maybe a nice conspiracy plot that would involve the military/sms vs the racers or whatever different factions, then it could be really epic. I say this not knowing much about the actual plot of the novels however.

But really, the chance to see the the VF-9 animated finally, along with -19ACTIVE and the return of the VF-1, -4 and -11? Would be a dream come true. They could even tweak the story to give the YF-30 some shine, or maybe have it be a sequel to the story from the novels. Doubt it will happen for this series but I hope we at least get an OVA someday.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Raptor One

[valkyriechild]

I am also curious to see how fast a vf-0 equipped with engines equal to vf-25 could run before it shattered to pieces. In animation. Redline style perhaps.

I never read the novel so i don't know anything about the story. But i can't stop imagining how awesome the race tournament would be.

Edited July 26, 2014 by valkyriechild

[YF-29 Durandal]

I still think a Macross: The Ride series (or OVA) could be really successful. It has the potential to have the same appeal as Gundam Build Fighters: Dream matches with custom versions of all your favourite mecha. If they tweak it to add some more actual inter-valkyrie combat for the competition, maybe a nice conspiracy plot that would involve the military/sms vs the racers or whatever different factions, then it could be really epic. I say this not knowing much about the actual plot of the novels however.

But really, the chance to see the the VF-9 animated finally, along with -19ACTIVE and the return of the VF-1, -4 and -11? Would be a dream come true. They could even tweak the story to give the YF-30 some shine, or maybe have it be a sequel to the story from the novels. Doubt it will happen for this series but I hope we at least get an OVA someday.

This would only work if they turned the Macross 30 video game into an anime and also the VF-9 got introduced in 2021 so it wouldn't turn up in a sequel to SDFM and it would have been scrapped a long time ago to turn up in a sequel to Macross Frontier but it could be used in a stand alone series that takes place in the 2020's.

[Zinjo]

I agree that M7 does grow on you after some time, but it was simply too long for the story that needed to be told. After a while it was blatantly obvious the show was hi-jacked into being a weekly advertisement for the record company sponsoring it. Perhaps that is why MF had a smaller label as the music sponsor, a lot less leverage to have to fight through.

Basara as a character was poorly portrayed. The closest pop culture character to him would be James Bond, in that both characters are immutable. They never change, but their circumstances do. The principal difference is that Bond regularly got injured, was in peril for his life, was tricked, beat up and even fallible. Basara came across as none of these, but more a "superman" and as a main character he became boring and predictable. Such a character makes a 49 episode series very, very long, when they get most of the screentime...

JBO's assertion about Chiba is bang on IMHO. The "magic" aspect of the assertion climaxed when song energy withstood a Macross Cannon type of blast from Grabil. The incident snapped whatever suspension of disbelief I had left. For the most part, many of the new aspects introduced into the universe were pretty inventive. The PD, the ancient archive that could only be opened by a half breed, the emigration program and New emigration fleet of ships. Even the idea of anima spiritia, whereby a musician with sufficient passion can emotionally influence others is a strong theme. Giving substantive, "quantifiable energy" to an emotional activity, pushed things too far for my tastes.

Remove the Chiba aspects and shrink the show down to 25 episodes and I could come to really really like this chapter of the universe.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Zinjo

[Zinjo]

I still think a Macross: The Ride series (or OVA) could be really successful. It has the potential to have the same appeal as Gundam Build Fighters: Dream matches with custom versions of all your favourite mecha. If they tweak it to add some more actual inter-valkyrie combat for the competition, maybe a nice conspiracy plot that would involve the military/sms vs the racers or whatever different factions, then it could be really epic. I say this not knowing much about the actual plot of the novels however.

But really, the chance to see the the VF-9 animated finally, along with -19ACTIVE and the return of the VF-1, -4 and -11? Would be a dream come true. They could even tweak the story to give the YF-30 some shine, or maybe have it be a sequel to the story from the novels. Doubt it will happen for this series but I hope we at least get an OVA someday.

As a vehicle to sell custom model kits, it already succeeded. Animated series tend to sell music, toys and figures. It must also have the trademark macross love triangle. Sponsors and studio execs will insist on this formula because in their limited creative understanding, the "method" works...

[VF5SS]

I agree that M7 does grow on you after some time, but it was simply too long for the story that needed to be told.

Congratulations you have just discovered the pacing issues of every single 50 episode robot show.

have a cookie

[Cdr Fokker]

JBO's assertion about Chiba is bang on IMHO. The "magic" aspect of the assertion climaxed when song energy withstood a Macross Cannon type of blast from Grabil. The incident snapped whatever suspension of disbelief I had left.

And I would refer back to the comments that veef made. The PD themselves are otherworldly beings, so if you accept that, then the effects of "sound energy" and "anima spirita" against such beings should not be too much of a stretch. This even goes for the attacks blocked by the sound boosters - if the projected energy weaponry is actually more PD than PC (that is, gaining more of its quality from the otherworldly-components and not from the more-of-this-universe components of the Evil series), then it makes sense.

I don't recall the sound boosters having much, if any, direct effect on non-PD entities or technology. Again, see the actions in Fleet of the Strongest Women, as mentioned by veef. (Speaker Pod Gamma FTW!)

I totally understand those who don't like 7 for its inclusion of the otherworldly aspect to begin with (not just sound boosters, but the PD themselves and the whole spirita thing altogether). That is quite a departure from the "harder" depictions of SDFM, DYRL, and Plus. And of course this can often be a reason for why fans don't care for Zero as much either. Understandable.

I also am one who enjoys the length of 7, but a lot of that is because I like 7 for what I feel it is - all about Fire Bomber. (So what some feel as pure "filler" I see as still being good episodes.) It's also why I don't mind the repetitiveness of the music early in the series - not only do I love pretty much everything Fire Bomber anyway, but I realize that it really seems to be a good depiction of a real band making a breakthrough into the mainstream: they get that one big first hit, which is played to death everywhere at the beginning before the rest of their material begins to really come out. So it really fits.

I would love something like Macross The Ride; or as I mentioned previously, something focuses on a private guard unit for an idol or band. I think a lot of fun could be had with those ideas, providing for really great entertainment - with cool Valks and new paintschemes too.

But you know what, I say, whatever it ends up being, the new series will undoubtedly be good. Why? Well, there hasn't really been any Macross that I don't like.

[VF5SS]

Honestly I think there's a big difference between "padding" and "filler." Padding is taking a slower pace but still taking the time to enrich the work with new facts or interesting character moments. Filler is adding a story that only serves as a distraction like say that one time Piccolo and Goku took a driver's test. It may be fun (or funny) but it ultimately doesn't matter. Macross 7 is far more the former than it ever is the latter. The real filler was in the Encore episode really and even those had lots of character stuff.



Also aren't you guys using a Mylene cosplayer as the MW Facebook page's banner? Wouldn't you like some fans like that to be part of this community too and not at arm's length through facebook?

[EXO]

Who's you guys? Why do people always talk to a forum like it's one person? For all the knowledge you seem to like to put over people... you should try looking up the word forum. You're like those people that think Hollywood is one person you can talk directly to.

[VF5SS]

I apologize as I often see the long standing posters are like members of the mod staff or at the very least those who seem to hold most sway over the discussion. I've been conflating the two unjustly. A lot of people here such as Mr. March or Zinjo have put a lot of effort into decrying one part of Macross that I've seen it be rather off putting to potential new members. I've had many friends (and people I meet at cons) get turned off from this place because there is a general attitude of "dissatisfaction" with Macross than there seems to be enthusiasm. I guess what I'm saying is I'm not sure how to help expand the narrow focus of discussion here when attempts to do so are met with the same resistance from many of the same people.

[sketchley]

I apologize as I often see the long standing posters are like members of the mod staff or at the very least those who seem to hold most sway over the discussion. I've been conflating the two unjustly. A lot of people here such as Mr. March or Zinjo have put a lot of effort into decrying one part of Macross that I've seen it be rather off putting to potential new members. I've had many friends (and people I meet at cons) get turned off from this place because there is a general attitude of "dissatisfaction" with Macross than there seems to be enthusiasm. I guess what I'm saying is I'm not sure how to help expand the narrow focus of discussion here when attempts to do so are met with the same resistance from many of the same people.

I have similar sentiments - to the extent that I've taken two "sabbaticals" from MW, and from a couple of years ago, I started refraining from posting some of my opinions (because, invariably, someone will strongly disagree) and skim reading the longer, vitriol soaked posts of some members.

On the flip side, the phenomenon isn't limited to Macross fans at Macross World... but it sucks that what should be the core of support for Macross in the English speaking world has such a dark side to it.

[EXO]

A lot of people get dissatisfied with this place because they can't separate the few times a small group of people actually agree with each other and drown out the voice of other people. But it's not a phenomena that exclusive to this place. Every forum I've gone to has this cliched reaction.

But the way people react sometimes, you'd almost have to have a disclaimer for each and every post that says that the views of this poster does not reflect MacrossWorld, the staff, the owners, the poster above and under this one and their youtube cat. The thing only that does is turn off even more people. With all the efforts that I myself, Tochiro and others that contribute to this site put into making this place where people can seek out more knowledge about Macross and other similar subjects, it's rather offensive when someone talks about the whole site like it's a shitty place to go to because they don't agree with another group that has a common opinion.

If your friends can't handle such events from a vocal minority then hopefully they've moved on to another forum. And if they think that that forum is utopia, then surprise... they're most likely the vocal minority there.

[EXO]

On the flip side, the phenomenon isn't limited to Macross fans at Macross World... but it sucks that what should be the core of support for Macross in the English speaking world has such a dark side to it.

Thank you Sketchley for writing that...

Seriously though... some people think that they are on the side of the complainers, when most likely other people are complaining about you (or me) at one time or another. And again... "the complainers" is not one entity... there's different people complaining about different things or people. For a group of smart people, this "tunnel vision" seem to affect every one. Yes, I mean everyone, as one lump sum.

[Nekko Basara]

I'm a new poster, and I have definitely noticed the way that M7 serves as a lightning rod and a polarizing force around here, but I'm not personally put off by it. A lot of great discussion results; I wish the other series inspired as much conversation.

Not to pull a Horshack over here, but did anybody agree or disagree with the idea that music having visible, pseudo-magical effects is the norm in Macross post-DYRL, rather than an anomaly confined mainly to M7?