NEW MACROSS TV SERIES ANNOUNCED!

[Duke Togo]

Do we all agree that we are super excited about another Macross show!?

Wait, there's a new Macross show?

[Seto Kaiba]

It will have to exist as a side story though, which is what the MS IGLOO series pretty much are.

All I care for is a good story above all else. Frontier is fine but is too much of a "best of" re-tread. M7 can be a bit of a hit-an-miss series but for it's length, understandable. Zero is just plain "huh?" in the end.

Yeah, but as I said, it could be sold as an OVA if anyone at Studio Nue got it into their heads to make such a series.

Do we all agree that we are super excited about another Macross show!?

I dunno, I certainly am... but there's a lot of carping from old timers who are somehow bitterly opposed to Frontier.

[Duke Togo]

Who?

[Strumvogel]

Excited?

Let's just say that the supposed ultimate DYRL re-release still hits me hard. If they can screw that up, well I'm very cautious now.

[Kanedas Bike]

Cautiously optimistic.

And I enjoyed Frontier, but I don't think I qualify as a MW old-timer.

-b.

[Old_Nash]

Do we all agree that we are super excited about another Macross show!?

very excited^^

[jenius]

If I were Bandai and I had the rights to make the VF-1 I would be all about Macross the First. However, if Arcadia still has the VF-1 license that doesn't seem very likely. Since Bandai is making a VF-30 I'm guessing we're going to get a VF-30 story. That's speculation based purely on toys for you and had I done that prior to Frontier I would have been totally wrong. I will say this, I don't think the story will be about destroids but it seems like it'd be relatively easy to add a character that is destroid-centric. I mean, we got a lot of focus on the Koenig in Frontier so they're heading in the right direction.

[Oskull]

if a new version of the first war is an option (ie, returning to see the main characters again), I would prefer a story where events took place just after earth departure or perhaps just before they disappeared near the center of the galaxy, with a dramatic history with battles against an unknown alien force that almost killed every one on the fleet (Misa was killed in battle; leading to Hikaru severe depression that wiped out all the leadership in the fleet) and just when everything seemed lost, Minmay songs saved the day again waking up another alien force (pacifist) that defended the ship and the last humans on it. Later this new alien force invited the last humans in the megaroad-01 to go through the dark hole then disappearing forever but giving the impression they reached a different spiritual level...we can see Misa rising again and holding Hikaru before they all disappeared.

Now, being serious, I´ll accept whatever comes, not everyone will like it but at the end the good thing is that the franchise is more than alive and still producing things that is the most important part.

[Seto Kaiba]

Who?

*blink* Someone let an owl in here?

Since Bandai is making a VF-30 I'm guessing we're going to get a VF-30 story. That's speculation based purely on toys for you and had I done that prior to Frontier I would have been totally wrong. I will say this, I don't think the story will be about destroids but it seems like it'd be relatively easy to add a character that is destroid-centric. I mean, we got a lot of focus on the Koenig in Frontier so they're heading in the right direction.

Er... pretty sure that ain't it. Namco Bandai was the publisher of Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy, that's why they're doing the YF-30.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Seto Kaiba

[Agent ONE]

I liked Frontier. But I also liked Zero, and I seem to be the only one.

[Gerli]

What? Nobody like Zero? It's one of my favorites!

(For reference, this is my list) DYRL>Plus>Zero>MacrossTV>M7>Frontier>Macross2>Frontier Movies>FB7

[jenius]

*blink* Someone let an owl in here?

Er... pretty sure that ain't it. Namco Bandai was the publisher of Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy, that's why they're doing the YF-30.

So you think that mold is just to support the video game license huh? It could happen, Yamato did it with their Koenig. Yamato did go out of business though.

[Mommar]

So you think that mold is just to support the video game license huh? It could happen, Yamato did it with their Koenig. Yamato did go out of business though.

Considering there's also a hand animation of the 30 as well, that's a lot of effort for one little-known plane.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

i hope the new Macross goes 700 episodes like Naruto. i hope it can get more mass appeal and then we can get more discounts on macross toys. more little kiddies like it, the better.

[Nekko Basara]

My only big gripe with Zero was the soundtrack. It wasn't bad (when is Kanno ever bad?), but it just didn't have the catchy pop angle, which I think is a key part of the Macross triangle.

Other than that, I like Zero a lot. I am more forgiving of a loose plot when it's in the short OVA format. Likewise, I don't mind a fairly unlikable character like Sara (or Myung in Plus) when the runtime is short.

[Gerli]

700 episodes like Naruto.

Oh god why?

[Seto Kaiba]

So you think that mold is just to support the video game license huh? It could happen, Yamato did it with their Koenig. Yamato did go out of business though.

Seems that way... Macross 30 seems to have been kind of a big deal, since the Bandai DX version of Leon Sakaki's YF-30 Chronos wasn't the only one they made for it either. IINM, they've also done Rod Baltemar's YF-29B Percival and the YF-29s flown by Ozma Lee and Isamu Dyson in the game.

I liked Frontier. But I also liked Zero, and I seem to be the only one.

I loved Macross Frontier, and thought Macross Zero was pretty fine as well. Macross 7 was the only one that didn't really do anything for me (initially). I've warmed to 7 in the past year or two.

[Beltane70]

But I also liked Zero, and I seem to be the only one.

That's where you're wrong! I actually liked Zero more than I did Plus.

[jenius]

I think the YF29 is a good example, it was surprising to release a one off mold for the movie and then they gave us video game variants. Now we have a one off mold for a video game, I would be surprised if it doesn't show up again somewhere else to give Bandai a better chance at recouping funds... But it's a pricey toy so maybe that solves the problem.

[Agent ONE]

What? Nobody like Zero? It's one of my favorites!

(For reference, this is my list) DYRL>Plus>Zero>MacrossTV>M7>Frontier>Macross2>Frontier Movies>FB7

Nice, we both DYRL first. Its really one of my favorite films of all time.

That's where you're wrong! I actually liked Zero more than I did Plus.

Did all those guys who bash Zero quit this board? I remember when it was out, people were crazy at throwing it under the bus.

[miriya]

I also like Zero more than Plus. I wish there was a good sub or dub for that matter.

[Mommar]

Seems that way... Macross 30 seems to have been kind of a big deal, since the Bandai DX version of Leon Sakaki's YF-30 Chronos wasn't the only one they made for it either. IINM, they've also done Rod Baltemar's YF-29B Percival and the YF-29s flown by Ozma Lee and Isamu Dyson in the game.

I loved Macross Frontier, and thought Macross Zero was pretty fine as well. Macross 7 was the only one that didn't really do anything for me (initially). I've warmed to 7 in the past year or two.

What? They absolutely have not done the 29B as a toy.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Haha, I didn't know that. I thought he jokingly propositioned Hibeki, but maybe I'm misremembering. But, anyway, I didn't say either of them was gay; I said they were "effeminate."

It seems like the portrayal of masculinity in Macross could make a good separate thread, and maybe it already has. It strikes me that even aside from flamboyant characters like Bobby, Mash, and Honey, a lot of the central characters are far from hyper-masculine. People make a big deal about Alto, but Hikaru is a small, pretty, and often very un-assertive guy. Max, Michael, and arguably Hibeki are basically pretty-boys. The characters with loads of machismo are more often in supporting roles, like Roy, Ozma, and Ray (although Isamu is a clear exception). Macross may have historically had a mostly-male fanbase, and SDFM certainly comes off as a story written by a bunch of (naive) young men, but I'd argue that Plus - written by a woman - is the only animated installment where the male leads are all aggressively masculine.

Plus and SDFM are the two best macross series.

Why do I like SDFM so much? It's not AIMED at anyone in particular. It's something that can appeal to more than one group.

Why do we need homosexual characters? Why do they HAVE to be the lead? Why does singing have to be the only representation of a culture?

That's why SDFM was the best. It's not trying to shove political ideas in our faces. It gives us the audience the room to make our own decision. Were the UNG stubborn for trying to kill the aliens and be masculine and take the tough guy stance? Maybe but they wiped out a huge amount of alien with that grand cannon. Were the females too naive to think all the aliens were going to join the UNG humans and serve us as slaves? Maybe. But minmay's music actually woke up quite a few of them despite there being a lot of rogue zentradi out there who want to be professional killers full time instead of integrate into peaceful society.

One side is masculine, one side is feminine. Both are wrong. You can't attain true peace by using force. (when you encounter enemies much stronger than you you are screwed. Being masculine won't help you. If you try to be soft to the aliens they may interpret being soft as you being weak. (you get situations where minmay is singing and her song has no effect on kamjin because he is exposed enoughto human singing that he is immune to it as a tactic. So being feminine is not the solution.

The truth is something in between. SDFM didn't try too hard to go in either direction. The hero was neither masculine (he was pretty pathetic actually) nor feminine but more in between. The show isn't trying to be politically correct nor is it trying to criticise one side. It's giving you situatios where either can be bad. The female zentradi gave up their feminity and became great killers in the DYRL movie. So saying masculinity is bad is ok. The male zentradi in the DYRL gave up sex for love of killing more than loving. So saying masculinity is bad is ok. .

....But the lack of masculinity in the form of super weapons like the SDFM to kill aliens in a single shot from the cannon also means that being feminine is bad too because without force you are not going to beat the bully. (the giants are much bigger and stronger than us - they will only respond to demonstration of power) Minmay needs defence: she is singing for the defence of humans. But without weapons how is she going to sing? while being shot at? Someone has to protect the singer.

Can't we have a show that is balanced? Neither side is right neither side is considered the wrong side?

Macross 7 didn't have that. It basically shoved its cock in your mouth and says that singing is the solution and if you don't like me, too bad you will have to suck my cock anyway and weapons are not of any use.

That's oversimplification of what went down in space war I. Without the right combination of weapons and singing they would not have won the freedom. It was somewhere in between where a pilot with enough sklll could use his weapon to disable the zentradi regult with well placed shots and this would let the pilot exit the machine without killing people. There was respect for life and that is what peace is about, not being a pussy and going into battle unarmed and just hoping they don't kill you and your wife and kid goes without a daddy to provide food on the table back home if you lost the bet.

So you can understand why people did not like M7 compared to Plus and SDFM. In those two other shows you have a lot more maturity. Perhaps war vets can even identify better with the characters? They don't like killing as they have religious belief that life is sacred and we should love our enemies, but if they have to kill to live (which is what both sides of wars usually claim when they don't want to do peace talk) they see no other solution but a nonlethal form of defence? (shoot the machines, but let the alien flee until they can't kill you anymore)

Most people have masculine and feminine inside them. You are not one extreme or another exteme. If you can give a us a show that is not shoving your political belief in the audience face then it can make everyone happy. I would rather something more mature and realistic. I know in the world of anime all kinds of unrealistic things can happen in them but what I mean is in the way characters react to things. If basara is a good pilot and meets and alien singer who is more talented than him and even better as a pilot I think that would create a much more interesting story than a show where he basically does the exact same thing in each episode and it gets reptitive. The twist of the show would be that humans are not the best and most morally superior race in the universe. You would have a situation where the humans would be considered too violent and maybe basara singing is offensive to them in some way. (rock music in the 60s was offensive to socially conservative people back in the day) This would make for interesting story since you can't force aliens to listen. They may attack BECAUSE you are singing lol and not because they are necessarily warlike by default. How would basara survive in a alien world full of censorship? He can't rely on music. He must rely on other things like books or some other form of expression.

In SDFM music took the spotlight but that's not the only thing that represents a country's/races culture. It could be food that is unique, ways of thinking, form of self defence. (eg bruce lee's entrance into the western world and bringing a lot of the martial arts to america through his movies for instance and birthing the mixed martial arts idea which was taboo at the time)

One thing I have noticed in all the macross show is the assumption that humans are the most cultured of the races and we are rscuing others with our culture. What about races that are peaceful but they just don't want UNG expanding into their zone? Wars are not fought just about differences in lifestyles. It could be something as simple as technology or resources. One side could envy the other side because it has more. And they fight for control over a specific resource. (maybe it is rare and both sides need it so it's not even about right or wrong, just two sides competing to survive)

When people say they would like something more gritty and realistic, they are reacting against the super robot format of macross 7. Not the idea of having a rockstar character. They may like the music in macross 7 but don't agree it was realistically presented. Doing a live performance is not the answer since if basara dies of old age all people will have left is his music cd. lol What then? The space devils return and the humans are doomed? What if not everyone has basras spiritua powers to heal plants and do other things using music through a live performance?

When you put godlike characters in these real robot shows it turns off the fans of those shows. Just go back to the way we had it in SDFM where it was presented in a semi realistic way. Captain Global survived by using good strategy, weapons were used in a way that was defensive, and singers were not the foolproof method of winning. (minmay was still captured by kamjin, hikaru was still necessary to rescue the princess etc )

Macross Plus did a good job of being balanced too. You didn't see Dyson as the bad reckless person in the end relying only luck, but the pioneer who proved the importance of experimentation and taking risks using limits of the time. Without innovation and unique ideas society is stuck in time and we don't progress and advance. Robots and computers don't innovate or create, so how can you have interesting music that is only derivative? It saddens me when people say macross plus doesn't feel like it belongs in macross universe. It simply isn't true. Go back, watch it and analyse the story. It's basically the same thing but AI robots take the place of aliens and use human music against us to brainwash rather than awaken. It makes for a good sequel to SDFM because the main character gave up on her dreams and we see the dark side of entertainment industry where pop idols get exploited for commercial reasons and the way entertainment can be used to corrupt people through brainwashing rather than let them create what they want to sing. You see this all the time in the real world where art/expression go against the business aims and the creator/innovator is a puppet, much like the zentradi restricted in how they can behave. Her music isn't what singlehandedly beat the AI, it was using human creativity to get past defences and the song woke the pilot from brainwashed sleep state. Exact thing in SDFM. But unlike 7, it wasn't nearly as repetitive. And the main character did not have to be this Ghandhi-like figure. They are just ordinary people doing a job, they can in fact be killed in battles, and if they make the wrong decision there are consequences which gives it semi-realism within the sci-fi universe that makes sense. (eg no godlike pilots with resistance to death as seen in gundam wing where dying means you just get sick for a few days like in a final fantasy game, and no explanation for how it is even possible for someone to survive it - what's the point of even watching if there is no danger?) This is what we mean by gritty/realistic.

Edited April 22, 2014 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Mr March]

Do we all agree that we are super excited about another Macross show!?

I'm much more excited for this new Macross show than I had been for Macross in the years post-Plus/pre-Frontier. However, I think what I'm excited about the most is if Kawamori and co. can make a new Macross show again without one of the typical foundations upon which the original was built to tell different story that changes tone, scope or setting in a significant way. Whether they were successes or failures, the Macross that was always most interesting to me after the SDFM/DYRL/FB2012 era was the Macross that dared to do something different in that respect.

Did all those guys who bash Zero quit this board? I remember when it was out, people were crazy at throwing it under the bus.

I didn't like Zero, so I'm happy to throw it under the bus for old times sake

[Nekko Basara]

Hey, LowViz Lurker, thanks for writing that. I feel like it would be jumping down a rabbit hole if I tried to respond,, but I can see you put a lot of thought into it, and I appreciate that.

For what it's worth, while I don't really think about what my "favorite" Macross is (remember the courses in a meal analogy), if I rate them in terms of "awesomeness per minute of running time," my #1 is Plus.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

destroids will be forever supporting cast. Not as interesting as flying stuff. That would be like a military movie about supply truck drivers.

Ah but this is slowly changing. The VB-6 is like the optimus prime of mac frontier using its big gun on its body to one-shot battleships kind of like the "critical hit" robot that goes for the head. (the macross equivalent of Gundam's "mobile armor" - heavier than normal sized robots but with tank-like body and and larger weapons that are better at damage dealing, combined with the high speed to get to the location in time to punch a hole in the skin before the enemy ship folds out)

VB-6 monster in action in frontier:

If all the valkyries are shot down, destroids are backup defences that are called in for heavy jobs. At close range the battroid mode of valkyies only shoots with gunpod on the ground level. Destroids have more weapons overall. How they would present the fights would determine who the hero really is.

You saw movies like diehard in the 80-90s right? That's how they could present the story where the larger the number the easier you are to be seen. A random guy is stuck on the ground and the cannon fodder valkyrie pilots have all been shot down. Now it is the destroids job to go and hunt the alien mecha that threatens the surviving colonists on a planet with hostile climate and limited resources. You technically already got this with mospeada. The fighter mode was only ever used sparingly because they were grossly outnumbered and if they exposed themselves the heroes were doomed. It would never happen since macross is all about the fighter pilots. But a side story would easily work. They do it with patlabor and show the limits of the robot all the time but the hero still comes to the rescue. And it comes with the assistance of trucks to delver it lol

Where would a destroid be better than a valkyire?

Inside caves and network of underground bases. The valks do not have enough gunpod ammo to go for long durations of time and rely on flying back to a base to be resupplied. If they have destroid with ability to hold heavy loads of backpacks that contain supplies and send them on mission in places where lock on weapons would be useless, then I can see destroids as being heroes. Much like bumblebee being sent in to disable bombs in transformers despite being semi-useless in the cartoons as the guy that just picks up humans in his body and drives them around. Since destroids are cheaper and don't transform they could probably send a lot more of them and if they break down, there is always some spare parts for them to get and use these to replace busted parts of the ones they are using in order to keep them in service. Let's be honest with ourself: it would require less skill to pilot a ground mech but the benefits of being easier to use means an average joe can look like a hero given the speed the machine moves at. If you are holding loads of ammo and you have thicker armor, you should not be doing dodgerolls and fancy moves anyway. Ramming into people and shielding yourself is probably more practical in confined spaces.

I think if they had enemies in macross that were a lot more heavily armored and hid themselves under the surface of a planet, there would be no excuse for UN Government not to bring back the destroid. Having superior firepower and better armour with manually-aimed weapons is just more suitable in situations where you battle enemy with unknown capabilities. The skill would lie more in being able to shoot with accuracy to hit enemy weakpoints in the armor to disable its usefulness, than dodging micromissile swarms and flying away like a little insect.

Edited April 22, 2014 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Zinjo]

I'm cautiously optimistic mainly because the amount of money that goes into a series invariably sees a production by committee and the sponsors have a heavy sway.

I'd more excited about a new OVA series. Those tend to get more edge and sometimes a more provocative theme. We'll have to see what comes down the pipe I guess.

[Duke Togo]

Nice, we both DYRL first. Its really one of my favorite films of all time.

Did all those guys who bash Zero quit this board? I remember when it was out, people were crazy at throwing it under the bus.

I think it's dull as hell, and I don't like the magic powers mumbo jumbo. Or the retcon. I really don't like retcons...

[jenius]

I think the story of Zero is pretty bad and poorly told. I do like some of the action though.

[Mr March]

I think the story of Zero is pretty bad and poorly told. I do like some of the action though.

Yeah, some of the action sequences were very imaginative. The initial battle between the F-14s and the SV-51 was really thrilling. I like how the setup created so much tension before the actual combat occurred. Then the enemy was only seen in glimpses until finally Shin managed to site it and attack. Then the bottom falls out and boom! Great sequence. I just wish the battle sequences were in a much better anime. I didn't find Zero engaging at all. A shame.

[Saruta]

Why do we need homosexual characters? Why do they HAVE to be the lead?

Wait, in what Macross animation was a homosexual character ever the lead? The closest I can think of is Sheryl Nome, who is apparently bisexual, but she is not the sole lead and her main love interest is a man. Alto has gender issues but is apparently heterosexual, and there is a hint of him actually having heterosexual intercourse (if we trust the Frontier TV series novels, it's confirmed). And Bobby Margot, the camp gay man, is just a supporting character. In 7 the lead is either Mylene (heterosexual) or Basara (who does have a confirmed interest in one woman, Sivil, and not in any man). In Plus both lead men are known to be in love with a woman...

So where's the gay under the bed?

So you can understand why people did not like M7 compared to Plus and SDFM. In those two other shows you have a lot more maturity.

There's a lot more to be said for why 7 is not the favourite. But I do wonder why you bring it up. It's an old series that appears forgotten except by the hardcore franchise fandom; unlike SDFM and DYRL (and. to a degre,. Plus) it did not join the ranks of the "anime classics". OK, they made a movie to pitch it to the new Frontier fandom. They gotta make money, you know.

When people say they would like something more gritty and realistic, they are reacting against the super robot format of macross 7.

Er, too few people have watched 7 at all to justify this blanket statement. Those who "want something more gritty and realistic" are much more likely to be reacting to Frontier - or to the general tendency to downplay the tragic impact. This tendency seems to exist from SDFM up, with DYRL and Plus possible exceptions.

Macross 7 didn't have that. It basically shoved its cock in your mouth and says that singing is the solution and if you don't like me, too bad you will have to suck my cock anyway and weapons are not of any use.

"Weapons are not of any use on their own but singing will work" appears to be a major Macross theme pretty much everywhere. The reason being that humans constantly encounter enemies that are too advanced for their weapons. Yes, 7 had a situation where weapons just went totally useless at the very end; Frontier TV restores the balance, but it does so by swapping the enemy in the ending. Against the Vajra, weapons ARE ultimately useless. Then you have the Frontier movies where, again, singing alone does it in the end, and that big picturesque blast was all for nothing.

And last, I think your binary "masculine/feminine" analysis just does not work in the world of Macross. This is the world that gave us bridge bunnies, after all. And the one original Misa Hayase (I do mean the SDFM one not the DYRL one).

[Nekko Basara]

Can I just make a shout-out for Canaria? She's a female doctor AND the pilot of the most badass mecha in the entire franchise. She's also married, with a son, and a husband who seems happy to take on more of the "homemaker" role. And on top of that, she appears to be of non-Japanese, non-European heritage. Canaria frustrates so many stereotypes. She doesn't play a big role, but nothing she does is trivial. If there is a progressive "social message" character that nobody could take issue with, it's got to be her.

EDIT: And she stands in for Veffidas in Lovely Bomber. So awesome.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Nekko Basara

[Seto Kaiba]

Er, too few people have watched 7 at all to justify this blanket statement. Those who "want something more gritty and realistic" are much more likely to be reacting to Frontier - or to the general tendency to downplay the tragic impact. This tendency seems to exist from SDFM up, with DYRL and Plus possible exceptions.

Eh... I think you're being too charitable here. The people who want "something more gritty and realistic" are the ones whose rose tinted memories of older shows are playing them false, because Macross has never been either of those things.

Seriously. Even at its darkest, like the orbital bombardment of Earth or Guld's graphic death dogfighting the Ghost X-9, Macross has always kept its trademark lightness of tone and optimistic outlook. It really says something that the Macross Frontier movies have one of the darkest endings in Macross... since Sheryl's dying and Alto's vanished and all that. We usually end on a higher note... love triumphs, peace prevails, the hero gets the girl and (almost) everybody goes home in one piece. This is a franchise that's made teaching aliens about love and peace through the power of song into its signature move. That is neither gritty nor realistic... but it is kinda kickass.

If you want dark, gritty, and realistic... you can always go to the beach and bury your head in the sand. Or you could give the Gundam franchise's Universal Century timeline a look. Either way, Macross is the wrong place to look if that's what you're after, and I like it that way.

[s001]

It worries me a little that this series is coming so soon. I liked frontier but didn't care for the movies or the story of macross 30.

It sucks to have to wait like 5 or more years for the next macross, but it's cool to get something very different each time.

[Mechapilot77]

lots of interesting discussion in here. i'm finding out that we all (as fans) seem to view macross and its sequels, prequels etc. with different eyes. we interpret things as we want to it seems, which maybe is part of the genius of it.

anyway, my preference right now is for this to take off in an all new direction. as macross ages, so do its creators and fans. we've grown up, we've adapted and the same is true of new fans. Adolescent fans or tweens that were sucked into macross through frontier....they are now grown men attending university for the first time maybe. it's been 6 years. anyway as we change, maybe macross will change to, not in a way that makes it wholly different in terms of abandoning common themes but perhaps in the type of story told or the way its told. While I enjoyed frontier, i'm ready for something all new....to be honest i wouldn't mind if they made an all new timeline/alternate reality and rebooted or told a completely unrelated story. give us something recognizable as macross but shock us with originality.

i just want great mecha designs and animation, and a good story that is about humanity. I was never in it much for the music but sure....give it some nice tunes.