NEW MACROSS TV SERIES ANNOUNCED!

[Agent ONE]

I think it's dull as hell, and I don't like the magic powers mumbo jumbo. Or the retcon. I really don't like retcons...

I didn't think an opinion could be wrong, until I read yours.

jk. Yeah, I have to look past a whole lot to like it. I didn't see the creators power as magic, just a higher level of technology than we have. Not much different than the hidden city in DYRL. Saw this as the same group of people.

[TheLoneWolf]

Did all those guys who bash Zero quit this board? I remember when it was out, people were crazy at throwing it under the bus.

Not me. I still think Shin and Sara are the two most unlikable Macross protoganists that I've seen. And the villians, D.D. Ivanov and Nora, were cookie-cutter antagonists with the combined depth of a single sheet of paper.

[Saruta]

Eh... I think you're being too charitable here. The people who want "something more gritty and realistic" are the ones whose rose tinted memories of older shows are playing them false, because Macross has never been either of those things.

Seriously. Even at its darkest, like the orbital bombardment of Earth or Guld's graphic death dogfighting the Ghost X-9, Macross has always kept its trademark lightness of tone and optimistic outlook. It really says something that the Macross Frontier movies have one of the darkest endings in Macross... since Sheryl's dying and Alto's vanished and all that. We usually end on a higher note... love triumphs, peace prevails, the hero gets the girl and (almost) everybody goes home in one piece. This is a franchise that's made teaching aliens about love and peace through the power of song into its signature move. That is neither gritty nor realistic... but it is kinda kickass.

If you want dark, gritty, and realistic... you can always go to the beach and bury your head in the sand. Or you could give the Gundam franchise's Universal Century timeline a look. Either way, Macross is the wrong place to look if that's what you're after, and I like it that way.

I actually am charitable indeed, I was not thinking "rose tinted memory" but rather "why not go darker for a change, as happened in Plus". And I'm not exactly sure I'd actually like to see this happening -I was just working with that proposition. I actually like the style of "tragedy masked as vaudeville", which seems to describe most of Macross.

Factual correction - I don't think the hero got the girl in M7? She bolted into unknown regions of space, probably because intimacy would likely end in death for Basara in a matter of days to months, and she already know killing him is no fun for her (which is the only stuff she actually cares about, being a demon and all)? Or you mean a different hero and a different girl? (As for that one, it appears to be a general reference to antique tragedies re human-god love - deeply hidden under layers of racy music and stock footage battles).

[VF-15 Banshee]

I am also a part of the "don't much like Zero crowd."

The VF-0's and the dogfights were pretty nice though.

You know what the next series should be? It should be about the cast making a documentry of all the previous shows. Each episode would be half clipshow and sometimes they'd play music over the clips but sometimes it would be the wrong music, for example, playing "Pillow Dream" over the Speaker Pod Gamma scene from M7.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Eh... I think you're being too charitable here. The people who want "something more gritty and realistic" are the ones whose rose tinted memories of older shows are playing them false, because Macross has never been either of those things.

Seriously. Even at its darkest, like the orbital bombardment of Earth or Guld's graphic death dogfighting the Ghost X-9, Macross has always kept its trademark lightness of tone and optimistic outlook. It really says something that the Macross Frontier movies have one of the darkest endings in Macross... since Sheryl's dying and Alto's vanished and all that. We usually end on a higher note... love triumphs, peace prevails, the hero gets the girl and (almost) everybody goes home in one piece. This is a franchise that's made teaching aliens about love and peace through the power of song into its signature move. That is neither gritty nor realistic... but it is kinda kickass.

If you want dark, gritty, and realistic... you can always go to the beach and bury your head in the sand. Or you could give the Gundam franchise's Universal Century timeline a look. Either way, Macross is the wrong place to look if that's what you're after, and I like it that way.

Space War I was all about humanity almost going extinct and pilots getting killed. If you go back to gundam UC and SDFM they both share that theme of "I might be next, will I survive long enough before it is all over?" so the characters react realistically and have to deal with the reality that they may never get to have the girl before they die and the music even reflects that because it has some sad songs and happy ones. You keep watching wondering what is going to happen next. Actually wanting to see how the character matures. Hikaru is a irresponsible guy with no reason to want to be a killer. Then transforms and see killing as a way to protect people and then realises killing is wrong (his friend marries an alien) and softens his stance on the aliens which almost destroyed everything. He starts out just like any teen and grows into an adult throughout the series taking on more responsibility and having to fill the shoes of people that are probably better than him at all the things he thinks he was good at.

Macross 7 on the other hand to me at least was way too bright and happy.

I respect the opinion but I have to disagree. Loads of people who have seen both Mac 7 and SDFM and DYRL can tell the difference. It's like comparing G gundam to UC gundam. In macross 7 Basara is basically a guy in God mode who has nothing to worry about at all. It's the exact oposite of Amuro ray who started out being ok as a pilot, (but the tech of the V project is what gives him an edge over aces pilot because it is like 5 times better than the enemy robots) slowly got better in skill, and became less cocky after he grows up. There is transformation in the characters attitude based on the events going on around him and you don't get this in macross 7 because it is aimed at kids.

Maybe I am biased and I just think anime of the 90s sucks. lol People that bash macross plus can only point to the pointy noses, but they admit the dogfights are great (something you don't get in macross 7) so I will point out the shallow characters of macross 7 that to me is only put there for commercial reasons. (eg putting a guitar to control a plane which is not realistic imo.)

For me the 'real' in real robot show is that it is not a super robot show but one where the mass production of robot as war machines means nobody is certain to survive no matter how hi tech things get since everyone has access to it not just one guy. ie like how you see Iron Man being the only one who can use the iron man suit or the character in bubble gum crisis only being the ones having access to the hardsuits etc) But what they did in Macross 7 was cheat by making the pilot so ridiclously good at the fighting that there is no reason for enemies to exist in the show since they are never ever going to be a serious threat. (in that sense it is not the robot that is super it is the pilot that is super. Technically it is a real robot universe but with a perfect pilot.) At least not in the way the zentradi were to human in the original SDFM where you have to accept that aliens will beat the humans trough sheer numbers.

Does SDFM have light moments? For sure.

Is the war itself a light moment with humanity almost dying off if not for the combination of luck and the work of crews of people? uh nope. The valks are not invinsible. Hikaru met his match with Kamjin. And the battles actually had some suspense because everyone has limits. That's what makes it realistic. There are no god mode pilots apart from max and even he almost got killed in some parts of DYRL where you see him dodging like crazy in desperation to avoid the QRAU which is realistic reaction to an ace pilot who is good. If he was just casually moving around expecting not to get hit all the time it would be different. But it is a battle between two closely matched pilots.

As for Plus being light? Nah I don't see the light moment in it. The main character is depressed that she has to give up her dream while the other two are living theirs. And the whole story revolves around something that went on 7 years ago and they are constantly dwelling on that one event. Which we find out is an attempted rape or assault by Guld who goes berserk. I don't think the intention is to take this lightly. Plus to me was pretty dark firstly because it is a ova and secondly the theme of brainwashing by machines is not painting the technology in a light way. It is saying to your face that you are a target by the machines to be replaced and there is even a guy being murdered in the story in order to hide the truth. That's dark to me.

It's also realistic show as far as 'real' in a 'real robot' show goes for me.

Especially how the characters react. Eg The aliens are not used to restraining the roid rage warrior instinct. Myung clearly shows fear when Guld touches her shoulder in the early episodes indicating that something isn't quite right here. You don't know what that is but you find out through subtle hints in the story as you watch. Guld is crazy. Dyson is merely reckless. They both end up being heroes at the end thanks to the fighting.

In other words. Macross Plus is a counterpoint to the other shows: fighting for your dreams is worth it. Fighting in general might not be good but that's how you get stronger and you can use strength for good causes. This is how we prgressed technologically when we compete. In macross 7 most of the story revolves around a similar idea (Basara trying to use music to get them to listen and this is his struggle, his fight) but the presentation of the idea is not as interesting to watch in terms of action. I like action. I like the danger. I want to see robots getting blown up and people combining their effort to succeed instead of a god mode pilot doing absoluetly everything all by himself and virtually eliminating any kind of realism.(ie G gundam)

I have no interest in super heroes in science fiction shows.

Edited April 24, 2014 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Saruta]

Basara may be a bit of a munchkin/"god mode pilot". But it does not go as well for him in other areas of life, and also, he's an outright jerk. And unlike Guld he does not have an excuse in his blood.

But yeah, happy and light (with tragedy lurking behind but hidden). Quite possibly explained by trying to reach a younger audience. As discussed on another thread, I have a nearly-9 year old son who loved DYRL and SDFM (in this order) and wants more; Frontier is blocked by adult type material, and Plus is both too dark and too fast, but 7 appears perfect.

I just don't see why you care so much about M7. It's the least successful of the franchise apparently. It's very nearly "the dead past" - despite the plugging in FB7, just how many of the new Frontier fans will EVER find the time to watch the actual 49 episodes? M7 is gone, and with Frontier going much more in the young adult direction (night slot, etc) I really doubt there is a danger of the M7 style coming back in the new show.

.

[Mr March]

The phrase "dark, gritty and realistic" in relation to popular culture is really a modern trend that many use for discussion, but I feel some misuse. Seto is on the right track that even during it's original 1982 run and the sequels that followed, Macross was never dark, gritty or realistic. The tone of Macross has always been strongly melodramatic, hopeful, grand, and alive with popular culture and music.

What some fans are refering to as "dark, gritty and realistic" in their favorite Macross is simply those story/character elements written about mature subject matter within the context of our silly, far flung sci-fi fantasy show. War, death, love, loss, coming of age, responsiblity, survival, mental illness, and more such topics are actually explored in many of the Macross productions. The reason many older fans love those mature aspects of Macross the most is because they are mature (ahem), which is a natural part of growing older for all of us. We grow up and when our beloved childhood franchise grows up with us, we continue falling in love with Macross. This is why so many older Macross fans adore the SDFM to Macross Plus era of the franchise. In contrast, the reason other Macross fans don't like those mature elements of Macross as much is because their favorite parts of Macross are not the mature elements but rather the fantasy escapism elements of the franchise. Some of us want our Macross to evoke that wonder we felt as a child first watching our beloved anime.

I'm not going to say which is better. But I will say that I understand from where the different types of Macross fans are coming. As evidenced by the Macross franchise to date, each iteration of Macross has explored more or less mature themes than the other. I think the best Macross handles the maturity and the fantasy of the franchise with skill and equal measure, but that's just me. Whatever happens with the next Macross series, I hope for that.

[Duke Togo]

I didn't think an opinion could be wrong, until I read yours.

jk. Yeah, I have to look past a whole lot to like it. I didn't see the creators power as magic, just a higher level of technology than we have. Not much different than the hidden city in DYRL. Saw this as the same group of people.

If there was a fanedit that cut out everything but the combat scenes, then I would give it another go.

[MILKAUTICO]

The phrase "dark, gritty and realistic" in relation to popular culture is really a modern trend that many use for discussion, but I feel some misuse. Seto is on the right track that even during it's original 1982 run and the sequels that followed, Macross was never dark, gritty or realistic. The tone of Macross has always been strongly melodramatic, hopeful, grand, and alive with popular culture and music.

What some fans are refering to as "dark, gritty and realistic" in their favorite Macross is simply those story/character elements written about mature subject matter within the context of our silly, far flung sci-fi fantasy show. War, death, love, loss, coming of age, responsiblity, survival, mental illness, and more such topics are actually explored in many of the Macross productions. The reason many older fans love those mature aspects of Macross the most is because they are mature (ahem), which is a natural part of growing older for all of us. We grow up and when our beloved childhood franchise grows up with us, we continue falling in love with Macross. This is why so many older Macross fans adore the SDFM to Macross Plus era of the franchise. In contrast, the reason other Macross fans don't like those mature elements of Macross as much is because their favorite parts of Macross are not the mature elements but rather the fantasy escapism elements of the franchise. Some of us want our Macross to evoke that wonder we felt as a child first watching our beloved anime.

I'm not going to say which is better. But I will say that I understand from where the different types of Macross fans are coming. As evidenced by the Macross franchise to date, each iteration of Macross has explored more or less mature themes than the other. I think the best Macross handles the maturity and the fantasy of the franchise with skill and equal measure, but that's just me. Whatever happens with the next Macross series, I hope for that.

I agree.

[Seto Kaiba]

Space War I was all about humanity almost going extinct and pilots getting killed.

Er... you sure you watched the show? The original Super Dimension Fortress Macross series (and its sequels) are about love stories set against the backdrop of interstellar war. Even Kawamori says so. Yes, we see humanity dodges the extinction bullet and they off a couple supporting characters to drive home that war is serious business, but those are small pieces of the whole story, which cares more for the trials and tribulations of the heart as an indecisive teenage boy tries to decide which of the two girls in his life he really loves. The war is a backdrop for the love story, not vice versa. It seems that you may have completely missed the point of Macross as a whole.

At the end of the day, almost the entire main cast is alive and well. Love conquers all, even Kamjin finds it before the end. The human race took one for the team, but at the end there's the promise of a brighter future as humanity moves out into the galaxy with the help of their new Zentradi allies. The warlike Zentradi learn the value of peace and discover a new life. You don't get a downer ending in Macross... unless you're watching Sayonara no Tsubasa. The hero gets the girl, love conquers all, peace is restored, and the world moves on a little wiser for having acknowledged the mistakes that led to hostility.

How is Macross 7 different? It's simply the most lighthearted and exuberant series in a metaseries that specializes in being far "lighter and softer" than Gundam. It takes the themes of music and emotion as a vehicle for communication to some comically exaggerated lengths.

Macross has never been, and hopefully will never be, a dark, gritty, and realistic series.

EDIT: Well, I suppose in Macross 7 the hero doesn't get the girl... because he's an asexual twit who's more into his guitar than any flesh and blood person. But hey, he still lives his dream in the end.

I just don't see why you care so much about M7. It's the least successful of the franchise apparently. It's very nearly "the dead past" - despite the plugging in FB7, just how many of the new Frontier fans will EVER find the time to watch the actual 49 episodes? M7 is gone, and with Frontier going much more in the young adult direction (night slot, etc) I really doubt there is a danger of the M7 style coming back in the new show.

Er... Macross 7 wasn't the "least successful" title in the Macross metaseries. It's not as well-regarded in America as it was in its native Japan, but Macross 7 did better than Macross II and Macross Plus. Until Macross Frontier, no Macross title had given rise to as much material as Macross 7. The Macross 7 series may have ended in 1995, but we were still getting new Macross 7 story material well into 2001!

It's also hardly the "dead past", considering that Basara and Fire Bomber were practically as big as Minmay... a fact referenced both in Macross Frontier's series and movies. It had a lasting influence in-universe, both musically and technologically. Even Macross 30 isn't shy about pointing out Fire Bomber had a lasting musical impact akin to Minmay's, one that even huge megastars like Sheryl respect.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Seto Kaiba

[Nekko Basara]

We need to take a step back if we find ourselves saying that jets with arms are realistic, but flying them with guitars is absurd. There are choices we make make about what we want from each show and what we are willing to accept in the premise. These choices are personal, they aren't right or wrong, but they also aren't absolute.

I love what Mr. March has to say about viewer age and the maturity level of the various shows. My personal experience is sort of the opposite of his prediction; I think I'm an older fan (I grew up with Robotech), but I find myself increasingly enjoying less "mature" pursuits and themes. M7 was the last Macross series I watched, and I approached it with great skepticism due to its reputation. For me, the frequent humor and more light-hearted tone was a breath of fresh air, and it gave me a new perspective on just how fun Macross can be. For the place I'm in right now, M7 was just right. Obviously, not the case for everyone, but again, it's personal.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Nekko Basara

[Kelsain]

We need to take a step back if we find ourselves saying that jets with arms are realistic, but flying them with guitars is absurd. There are choices we make make about what we want from each show and what we are willing to accept in the premise. These choices are personal, they aren't right or wrong, but they also aren't absolute.

Oh, come on now. You could never control the fine movements of a battroid with a guitar-style control. At least no where near as well as a joystick & throttle. Sheesh.

I never really saw the problem with this setup. It wasn't a guitar, just a control yoke set up like one - because Basara was more used to it. Nor was he really playing the accompanying music. Heck, maybe the setup actually WAS better suited for battroid - since everyone acknowledges that he's a great B-pilot, but sucks in F or G.

That goes out the window for Dynamite of course.

I do hope that the new series finds a better balance than 7 or Frontier. I like them both, but the pacing was awful in the middles and ends.

[Saruta]

What's the problem with Frontier's pacing at the end? I think it's the early middle that does have a pacing problem. Ep1 is nice, Ep5 is nice, Ep12ff actually get into the action, but it's a drag through most of the other early stuff if you ask me (and a friend who is currently watching at my request, too - and that friend is a 18 yo lady...).

This may be, however, because they try to balance target audiences. So they feel they have to provide a series of battles, AND a lot of fanservice, AND character and plot development. but these don't work very well together before the main arc really gets into force - so they alternate. Both I and my friend only really care about character and plot development. so we find the early part a drag.

EDIT: Well, I suppose in Macross 7 the hero doesn't get the girl... because he's an asexual twit who's more into his guitar than any flesh and blood person.

The key words here being "flesh and blood". There is also the one who consists of, well, whatever demons consist of, definitely not flesh and blood. And she leaves him and flies off in an unknown direction. While she has a good reason to do so, it's still not an unreservedly happy end I think, though. of course nowhere near Sayonara no Tsubasa.

[Seto Kaiba]

What's the problem with Frontier's pacing at the end?

The build-up to the series climactic battle is very abrupt... in the opinion of many viewers, including many who are very fond of Macross Frontier (myself included).

The key words here being "flesh and blood". There is also the one who consists of, well, whatever demons consist of, definitely not flesh and blood.

What are you talking about? There are no demons in Macross. The Protodeviln are bio-technological weapons developed by the Protoculture that were accidentally inhabited by extradimensional energy beings. She's as much a corporeal being of flesh as the idiot she obsesses over and the other idiot who obsesses over her. If Macross 30 is any fair indication, the same sort of bio-tech weapons were probably the forerunners of the Birdhuman-type mecha seen in Macross Zero.

[Cdr Fokker]

What are you talking about? There are no demons in Macross. The Protodeviln are bio-technological weapons developed by the Protoculture that were accidentally inhabited by extradimensional energy beings. She's as much a corporeal being of flesh as the idiot she obsesses over and the other idiot who obsesses over her. If Macross 30 is any fair indication, the same sort of bio-tech weapons were probably the forerunners of the Birdhuman-type mecha seen in Macross Zero.

The Protodeviln were/are the energy beings; the bodies they were inhabiting were the Evil-series bioweapons developed by the Protoculture.

[Seto Kaiba]

The Protodeviln were/are the energy beings; the bodies they were inhabiting were the Evil-series bioweapons developed by the Protoculture.

Er... would now be a bad time to point out that I said pretty much exactly that. However, because they can't actually separate themselves from those bodies, they are effectively flesh-and-blood beings.

[Kelsain]

My problem with Frontier's pacing has a lot to do with the slow middle, and as a consequence how rushed the 3rd act was. We got the awesome exposition of Grace being the bad guy, the nefarious machinations of Galaxy Anonymous, only to have them put on the back burner until the last couple of episodes.

While I've come to expect little closure in anime endings, it seemed like one more episode to deal with Galaxy would've gone a long way. Instead, we got a fast-paced pewpew medley, which was awesome to watch, but quite shallow.

Despite their other shortcomings, I feel the movies handled the Galaxy plot much better overall.

[Saruta]

...except in the movies the plot itself was somewhat different, what with the much greater success of the Leon Mishima group at controlling Vajra, and the absence of Ranka's entire run-away-get-used story.

I do agree that, with the target of 25 episodes, they could have done away with a couple in the middle and expandув the end showing some more of the Galaxy plot - and more details on how they used Ranka, too.

Re Sivil. whether or not she is fairly called a flesh-and-blood being. she seems to be the only woman who ever got through to Basara, a feat not likely to be repeated by any less powerful being - whether human, Zentran, or Zolan? With her gone the ending does not seem 100% happy for him then?

Edited April 25, 2014 by Saruta

[jenius]

I really liked Macross Frontier but I felt it had its flaws. I really disliked the Frontier movies. The movies seemed like such a great chance to fix the problems with the TV show and instead they just compounded the problems. I made the mistake of watching the first Frontier movie with a non-anime fan and afterwards I apologized. It was terrible. I would probably put the Frontier movies on a similar level to Macross7 and I would put those below MacrossII. I could show MacrossII to someone who isn't an anime nut and if they hadn't seen DYRL they might think it's alright. I could never show Macross7 or the Macross Frontier movies to anyone but hardcore Macross fans. That said, the hardcore Macross nerd in me would probably rank Macross7 above the Frontier movies and put MacII last. Once you get over the mind-numbing repetition of 7 and how over-the-top it is in practically every respect it does tell a story that adds to the Macross mythology so that's nice. The Frontier movies just rehash the Frontier story horribly.

There was some conversation about Macross not being gritty and realistic. My favorite Macross animation is DYRL. I'm not going to call it realistic, but there is a head that gets stepped on and some point blank bullets to the face at one point... so yeah, Macross can be violent. DYRL did the violence way better than Frontier did. Squishy guy in episode one was too obvious... not nearly as cool as the violence I just sited in DYRL. Now all that said, I appreciate that DYRL was a movie. I wouldn't want or expect a TV show to carry in the same tone that DYRL did. I think Frontier did a pretty good job playing the tone right overall.

[Kelsain]

Saruta :

Basara got a happy ending. He moved the mountain, by snapping Gepelnitch out of his uncontrollable galaxy-killing state.

He was never in it for the girls. While he admired and was certainly drawn to Sivil, I'm not sure it was ever in a romantic way. He was just trying to reach through to the enemy.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Kelsain

[Seto Kaiba]

I really liked Macross Frontier but I felt it had its flaws. I really disliked the Frontier movies. The movies seemed like such a great chance to fix the problems with the TV show and instead they just compounded the problems. I made the mistake of watching the first Frontier movie with a non-anime fan and afterwards I apologized. It was terrible.

As a general rule, don't start newbies on the movie version of anything... the movie is for people who are already fans. You'd run into similar problems if you showed someone who's never seen Escaflowne the Escaflowne movie, or someone who's never seen Zeta Gundam the Zeta Gundam movies. You'll get the same kind of abject confusion if you show DYRL to someone who's never seen the original series.

IMO, the movies did fix a few issues with the series in that they gave Ranka a better run at the love triangle... the series version always felt a little lopsided, with her not getting nearly as much attention or interest as Sheryl.

Once you get over the mind-numbing repetition of 7 and how over-the-top it is in practically every respect it does tell a story that adds to the Macross mythology so that's nice.

That, I think, is one of the chief problems with western fans and Macross 7. Because of that soul-crushing, mind-numbing reuse of footage, the repetitious music, and the slow start, you absolutely CANNOT marathon the show without feeling like you're being punished for some imagined sin. It's a show you have to watch here and there in small pieces, and because so many fans have had to resort to fansubs, they succumb to the temptation to marathon it... which is the worst possible thing to do with a series like that.

[Saruta]

That, I think, is one of the chief problems with western fans and Macross 7. Because of that soul-crushing, mind-numbing reuse of footage, the repetitious music, and the slow start, you absolutely CANNOT marathon the show without feeling like you're being punished for some imagined sin. It's a show you have to watch here and there in small pieces, and because so many fans have had to resort to fansubs, they succumb to the temptation to marathon it... which is the worst possible thing to do with a series like that.

It seems that FB7 was an attempt to fix this issue but not a success. It is a fast-paced clip show where one can't understand anything without a lot of googling. Fair enough, they do show Luca doing the googling inworld, too.

Why did they have to limit it to 90 minutes? In a 180 minute format they could have made it work as a decent retelling. The idea of using VHS tapes as a way to explain lower-quality animation is excellent.

(Almost thinking of doing a fan version of FB7! It's technically quite possible, just add more M7 series footage).

[Seto Kaiba]

It seems that FB7 was an attempt to fix this issue but not a success. It is a fast-paced clip show where one can't understand anything without a lot of googling. Fair enough, they do show Luca doing the googling inworld, too.

Compilation movies are clip shows intended for consumption by people who are already fans of the series, and therefore wouldn't need to do said googling.

[Cdr Fokker]

Er... would now be a bad time to point out that I said pretty much exactly that. However, because they can't actually separate themselves from those bodies, they are effectively flesh-and-blood beings.

You said that the Protodeviln were what the Protoculture created, which is false. The Protoculture created the Evil series and opened the rift or whatever to the extra-dimensional space from whence came the Protodeviln that then possessed the Evil series.

There is a distinction there. Also keep in mind that two of the Protodevlin were using other (non-Evil-series) bodies through much of the series. While still tied to the Evil-series bodies, they're not entirely constrained to them.

ETA - Also, marathon M7? Sounds good to me. (And I've basically done that... but still in chunks. Hard for me to have the time to do a true marathon for a series of that length.)

Edited April 25, 2014 by Cdr Fokker

[JetJockey]

When this comes out I hope the rights are cleared up so we can get it at the same time here in the States as Japan.

[VF-15 Banshee]

When this comes out I hope the rights are cleared up so we can get it at the same time here in the States as Japan.

Wont ever happen until HG dies.

[Seto Kaiba]

You said that the Protodeviln were what the Protoculture created, which is false.

Read it again, friend... I said that the Protodeviln in the series are Protoculture-created bio-tech mecha inhabited by energy beings from another dimension. That's not a false statement. As we see them in the series, that's what they are. A Protoculture-designed body with an extradimensional "soul".

ETA - Also, marathon M7? Sounds good to me. (And I've basically done that... but still in chunks. Hard for me to have the time to do a true marathon for a series of that length.)

In my experience, it's not been a good idea... it makes the reused animation and limited musical variety of the show's first half all the more obvious. It's a big part of what put me off the series the first time I tried to watch it. The subtitle quality was kind of awful too, but now that my Japanese is decent enough that there aren't many moments where I need subs, and I'm watching the remastered release on legit media, it's not bad in small doses.

Marathoning Macross 7 is definitely a bad idea if it's already not the type of show you were expecting (an issue exacerbated by Macross Plus), and especially so if it's your first time watching it.

When this comes out I hope the rights are cleared up so we can get it at the same time here in the States as Japan.

Not gonna happen... unless Harmony Gold goes under, or does something to get themselves sued into oblivion. Their license doesn't expire until 2022.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Seto Kaiba

[Cdr Fokker]

Read it again, friend... I said that the Protodeviln in the series are Protoculture-created bio-tech mecha inhabited by energy beings from another dimension. That's not a false statement. As we see them in the series, that's what they are. A Protoculture-designed body with an extradimensional "soul".

But the Protodeviln are only the extra-dimensional component - the soul/sentience that is inhabiting the bodies of the bioweapons; those corporeal forms are not strictly Protodeviln. And again, they don't just inhabit those bodies, but others as well. Though I would say they seem to have some quasi-permanent link to the Evil-series bodies - which can be reasoned in that they became tied to the first bodies they inhabited upon entering this dimension.

This is what you said:

The Protodeviln are bio-technological weapons developed by the Protoculture that were accidentally inhabited by extradimensional energy beings.

The part in red I consider a falsehood; the term Protodeviln really applies to the part in blue - they are, in fact, the extra-dimensional beings. And again, they are capable not only of possessing the bodies of the Evil-series bioweapons - which are those described in the part in red - but also temporarily possessing other bodies. Of course we see Sivil do this a few times, but more importantly for this discussion, Gepelnitch and Gigil spend most of the series not in their Evil-series bodies at all.

Wait, how the hell has this turned into a M7 thread now?

[Mommar]

As a general rule, don't start newbies on the movie version of anything... the movie is for people who are already fans. You'd run into similar problems if you showed someone who's never seen Escaflowne the Escaflowne movie, or someone who's never seen Zeta Gundam the Zeta Gundam movies. You'll get the same kind of abject confusion if you show DYRL to someone who's never seen the original series.

I always am taken aback when someone new asks about Macross and everybody tells them to watch DYRL. Without knowing the story of Macross already DYRL makes NO SENSE. It doesn't even attempt to clue you in, not to mention they change a lot. Other then the animation looking good it's a terrible spring board for any sort of plot or story.

[sketchley]

The part in red I consider a falsehood;

Seto's mostly correct, and so are you.*

Yes, they do possess** other people, but they still inhabit their own bodies.

Take Gigiru as an example: his Protodevilun body remains in stasis on the 4th planet of the Varohta star system, and he operates Autre Mauer as himself from remote (a kind of remote control, if you will).

* More specifically: The Protoculture created the Evhil series Living Body Weapons, which were taken over by Energy Beings from the Sub-Universe, thus becoming the Protodevilun.

- Seto has the general idea correct, and so do you, but you both need to be more careful with your nomenclature... does anyone read my (and others') translations on the subject???

** Perhaps remote control is a better way to describe what's going on than the literal possession.

Edited April 26, 2014 by sketchley

[Marzan]

Not gonna happen... unless Harmony Gold goes under, or does something to get themselves sued into oblivion. Their license doesn't expire until 2022.

There's a date of expiry to their license?!! I had missed that nugget. I'm gonna party like it's 1999 when that happens.

[Scyla]

*snip*

Not gonna happen... unless Harmony Gold goes under, or does something to get themselves sued into oblivion. Their license doesn't expire until 2022.

If this is true than we only have to wait for eight more years. Not bad.

[Gerli]

There's a date of expiry to their license?!! I had missed that nugget. I'm gonna party like it's 1999 when that happens.

I'm going to start saving to travel to the states and dance in front of their building that day...

Edited April 26, 2014 by Gerli

[azrael]

There's a date of expiry to their license?!! I had missed that nugget. I'm gonna party like it's 1999 when that happens.

All trademarks last ~10 years. After 5 years, you need to start filing paperwork to renew so that by the 10th year, it will be renewed. Roughly speaking.

[Seto Kaiba]

There's a date of expiry to their license?!! I had missed that nugget. I'm gonna party like it's 1999 when that happens.

Yeah, that came to light relatively recently with their latest bout of legal threats... though they can renew that license, so I'd not make any long-term plans for partying.

... does anyone read my (and others') translations on the subject???

I do. I read every translation you post.