Have Macross become out of reach for collectors

[YF-29 Durandal]

VF-19S today is more like $140-160 and it surely will be interesting to see if this new YF-19 will hold it's value but one thing is for sure... the V1's will not.

[Scyla]

VF-19S today is more like $140-160 and it surely will be interesting to see if this new YF-19 will hold it's value but one thing is for sure... the V1's will not.

As far as I know the YF-19 will be built to order. If this is true then it will keep its value.

However I don't think it wont increase to VF-4 levels because this seems like a one of a kind release.

Of course Arcadia can still decide to reissue it or release a bare version and such things.

[YF-29 Durandal]

As far as I know the YF-19 will be built to order. If this is true then it will keep its value.

However I don't think it wont increase to VF-4 levels because this seems like a one of a kind release.

Of course Arcadia can still decide to reissue it or release a bare version and such things.

VF-4G doesn't seem that expensive: http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMATO-1-60-VF-4G-LIGHTNING-III-30th-ANNIVERSARY-Macross-Robotech-Very-Rare-/171196709778?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27dc1e7b92

But of course I hope that the V2 YF-19 will increase in value not that I have thought of selling it.

[Mechapilot77]

VF-4G doesn't seem that expensive: http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMATO-1-60-VF-4G-LIGHTNING-III-30th-ANNIVERSARY-Macross-Robotech-Very-Rare-/171196709778?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27dc1e7b92

But of course I hope that the V2 YF-19 will increase in value not that I have thought of selling it.

uh that auction is still on going. cheapest "sold listing" is $440...everythign else is north of $500

[YF-29 Durandal]

uh that auction is still on going. cheapest "sold listing" is $440...everythign else is north of $500

Yeah but does it actually sell for that kind of money these days or does it go unsold month after month?

[anime52k8]

Yeah but does it actually sell for that kind of money these days or does it go unsold month after month?

he said sold so yes, they actually sell for that much.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=VF-4G&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc

[jvmacross]

VF-4G has been trending for about 400 USD in Japan....thus the higher prices on ebay to make up for proxy fees, shipping to US and some profit on the resale....

[funkymonkeyjavajunky]

If collecting these toys was easy then we wouldn't derive nearly as much satisfaction when we acquire a particularly hard to find piece (or at a reasonable cost). A lot of the fun is in the hunt.

[GU-11]

As far as I know the YF-19 will be built to order. If this is true then it will keep its value.

I'm not familiar with how "built to order" works. Does that mean stores have to order and pay in full for un-manufactured stock upfront? That explains a lot if that's how it is.

The owner of the store has always been a little "skittish" when it comes to high-end items (barring HT releases) and probably didn't want to invest that kind of money.

Of course Arcadia can still decide to reissue it or release a bare version and such things.

That's what I'm hoping for. I have absolutely no interest in the missiles or the stand, and can even forgo the FP's if it means lowering the price to V1 YF-19 levels. With a good enough HLJ discount, I could actually buy this online and not have to worry about paying too much in taxes.

Edited December 18, 2013 by GU-11

[CePeAi]

Not into Toys, prefer models. Don't play with them either.

Said that I couldn't justify buying a toy like a 1/60 Valkyrie or similar.

Sometimes I think they look nice but .....

Edited December 19, 2013 by CePeAi

[skullmilitia]

It's essentially a pre-built model? I don't understand the reference?

Oh I get it

Toy:

Model:

Wat?

Edited December 19, 2013 by skullmilitia

[CePeAi]

I enjoy the building process more than the collecting, hkence I buy models/kits.

Also a big price diff between a kit and a pre-build.

[Knightdramon]

"Built to order" means that the retailers are given a time period, and when it ends, however many orders they receive are being summed into a total and that's the number of units the manufacturer is going to make.

VF4G was made like that directly through Yamato. The YF19 is not made like that.

And it's kind of unfair to try to compare how the VF19S has kept its price with the YF19.

One of them is a glorified cannon fodder remould and repaint of a hero valkyrie, which saw action halfway into the show piloted by a guy who was in coma for like 19 episodes.

The other is the star of its own 4 episode OVA series and movie.

VF19S has had at least one reissue as a toy by Yamato.

[recon]

I would think that the cause of the increase in toy prices are probably link to increase in manufacturing cost, labor cost and inflation but the sad thing is that our pay has not increase much during the past decade to keep up with the cost of living and expenses. Well you guys know the demand and supply theory, as long there is a demand, manufacturers and distributors alike can priced their items in any way they like but people will still buy them unless the pricing is horrendous and ridiculous

Edited December 19, 2013 by recon

[GU-11]

"Built to order" means that the retailers are given a time period, and when it ends, however many orders they receive are being summed into a total and that's the number of units the manufacturer is going to make.

VF4G was made like that directly through Yamato. The YF19 is not made like that.

Thanks for the clarification. I guess I can perish the thought of getting any extra YF-19 stock on the cheap at an HLJ sale. In this case, I'll just have to make do with my Yammie 1/60 scale YF-19--at least it's not the 1/72 scale version.

Edited December 19, 2013 by GU-11

[Falcon18]

There will be extra YF-19 stock for those who cancelled and I have a feeling stores will order a few extras in just to have stock after it has been released for those who didn't decide to preorder. So there might be stock left like how there's still some 1S Roy around. But don't count on it being there for long, definitely not long enough for a sale me thinks.

[YF-29 Durandal]

he said sold so yes, they actually sell for that much.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=VF-4G&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc

Ah, ok.

[GU-11]

There will be extra YF-19 stock for those who cancelled and I have a feeling stores will order a few extras in just to have stock after it has been released for those who didn't decide to preorder. So there might be stock left like how there's still some 1S Roy around. But don't count on it being there for long, definitely not long enough for a sale me thinks.

That's good to know. If I'm fortunate, maybe some extra stock might trickle down to my local hobby store, so I can buy one without paying extra for import taxes.

Or, hopefully, there are other cheapskates out there like me who are also waiting for a sale on that extra stock before taking the plunge.

Edited December 19, 2013 by GU-11

[auberondreaming]

Hmmm. The way I see it, Arcadia is playing it REAL safe.

Their first 3 releases are the biggest hero valkyries of macross lore. While Max is generally popular, having watched the SDFM and DYRL series and movie with my sister [a complete outsider]...he doesn't really do much. The 1S gets a lot of screen time, while his 1J appears for less than 20-30 minutes in total, maybe even less, from episode 25 or so until the end of the series.

From a poll somebody put up the past few months, Roy's Strike 1S is THE most popular mecha in the franchise. Literally every company that produced macross toys started out with that one.

On the topic of prices, there is an increase yes, but not as dramatic as you make it out to be. For the YF19 bundle, I can most definitely see where the money is going. Barring the fold booster, it's the most complete release of releases for that mecha, EVER.

And considering how niche the macross market is, bar the VF1, YF19 and VF25, I'm surprised we're getting things like all the VF19 variants, the VF17 or even the VF4

Sure, I understand about Roy. But Rick's DYRL? At one point I could pick that up off of HLJ for $80, and that was the height of the Yen value versus the dollar. For a hero valk that one was not selling out at the online stores at least. The mass production movie version paint scheme sold out way before Rick's DYRL.

This isn't a vacuum though. This is basically the same company, trying to peddle the same wares to a market their previous incarnation already saturated. Maybe if it was a radical change in the engineering of the product I could see justifying it, but it is literally the same toy.

I guess the question is, how many people missed out on the Roy and Rick DYRL from Yamato, and are they a big enough market coupled with the few collectors who will want arcadia branded copies? I am not one of those collectors, my Yamatos are great, and I don't need the arcadia boxes.

Still curious, after the vf-19, whats next for higher than vf-1 priced products?

Edited December 19, 2013 by auberondreaming

[Knightdramon]

You mean the after the YF19? I'd venture a guess and say we've got a renewal YF21, naturally, coming circa late 2014/mid 2015.

Plus, via hints and discussions with Mr K. based on posts I've read, we'll probably have a taste of an upgraded VF0 line.

Personally, I missed both Hikaru and Roy 1S. I only got Max's 1S at the time because money was tight and I wanted my favourite character.

Should the occasion arise, in 2014, where I'll say "I want ONE VF1" you can bet I'll look into either Roy's or Hikaru's.

Then, after me [ie people who missed on ALL the chances to get one], there's people who are after all the variants, people who like it enough to buy it twice, etc etc.

Sure it's not as great a market as when the very first 1/60 VF1 V2.0 was released, but it's not miniscule either.

[Reïvaj]

Who's Rick, BTW?

[Valkyrie addict]

No wonder it didn't sell, I wouldn't buy a "Rick" DYRL, LOL, kidding.

Roy and Hikaru VF-1 will not be fast sellers anymore because Yamato already satured the market with them. Macross has a limited collector fanbase that most likely has them already. So any new sales will be from old fans beginning their collection, young generation getting into the old Macross by MacrossF and Macross the First exposure or the few people who may have missed the old Yammies.

[auberondreaming]

No wonder it didn't sell, I wouldn't buy a "Rick" DYRL, LOL, kidding.

Roy and Hikaru VF-1 will not be fast sellers anymore because Yamato already satured the market with them. Macross has a limited collector fanbase that most likely has them already. So any new sales will be from old fans beginning their collection, young generation getting into the old Macross by MacrossF and Macross the First exposure or the few people who may have missed the old Yammies.

Ha showing my age, I grew up on Robotech. Hard habits die hard, though to defend myself I do own all of SDF Macross as well as all of the first Robotech series. Still, you grow up with Rick Hunter, you never say goodbye.

[auberondreaming]

You mean the after the YF19? I'd venture a guess and say we've got a renewal YF21, naturally, coming circa late 2014/mid 2015.

Plus, via hints and discussions with Mr K. based on posts I've read, we'll probably have a taste of an upgraded VF0 line.

Personally, I missed both Hikaru and Roy 1S. I only got Max's 1S at the time because money was tight and I wanted my favourite character.

Should the occasion arise, in 2014, where I'll say "I want ONE VF1" you can bet I'll look into either Roy's or Hikaru's.

Then, after me [ie people who missed on ALL the chances to get one], there's people who are after all the variants, people who like it enough to buy it twice, etc etc.

Sure it's not as great a market as when the very first 1/60 VF1 V2.0 was released, but it's not miniscule either.

a renewal YF-21 would be great, as the originals had some problems. I think you are a little optimistic though. They originally didn't sell all that well, but maybe people want a better quality version and they would be willing to pick it up again.

I just can't see the vf-0's being in the same price point as the vf-19.

[wmkjr]

I just can't see the vf-0's being in the same price point as the vf-19.

For the price of the YF-19, it should come with the PWS-0X armor set!

Now, if were talking about the VF-19(all variants NOT including YF-19 variants), according to the Hobby Link Japan's website before discounts it was 22000yen. The VF-0's had a list price of 16800yen. With booster set it was 19800yen. Factoring inflation to the prices, the VF-0 with ghost booster set would come out around the same price as the VF-19 in 2013. Of course this is just using $USD with the list prices and not factoring discounts.

This is just one way to compare it as I'm sure there are other sites you can use. Anyways, I went here http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ and plugged in the year of release with the list prices at HLJ.

Using the site above as reference, I can see it being in a similar price point to a VF-19 if they sold the VF-0's as a ghost bundle or valk only+display stand.

Edited December 20, 2013 by wmkjr

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

It's getting out of reach but, so long a the quality is high, and the items are easily available I am willing to sacrifice paying a bit more.

What I don't want is defects and having to wait for second releases to be certain that the toy is safe to buy.

The old yamato = cracking shoulders and timebomb exploding hips and other annoyances. Forcing us to have to buy multiples and wonder how durable in the long term these were. Now yamao/arcadia toys seem to be more robust. Plus we should pay for work what it is worth imo.

If competitors think they can compete with them on quality and release cheaper, lets see it. Perhaps that can drive prices down?

Lack of competition is the true main factor for high prices in any industry. Some of the toys don't sell well so I imagine that the ones that do, are relied upon to compensate for the ones that don't. VF-11 for instance didn't do too well. And that was one of yamato's well-made toys. I think the more risky it is to do a particular VF, the more it is expected for collectors to pay to see it made. The high-paying customers absorb the risk until it is proven safe enough to continue to keep supplying more. If the fanbase shrinks over time this is also important. Less people to sell to = more reason to sell high to maximise profit. Macross is not as popular as transformers or gundam. They have to target the really hardcore fans who are desperate since the series is old..

Edited January 13, 2014 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[MacrossJunkie]

I guess this thread is mostly concerning the prices of Arcadia/Yamato? Those I can see as getting a bit out of hand and out of reach for more and more people, but the Bandai stuff has been pretty decent price-wise. Most of their releases have been below $200, even after shipping.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Well to clarify I think Bandai are doing a great job because they give you a stand and their pieces are solid efforts.
The HiMetals could be used as an example of "too expensive for what you get" though.

Lots of people on here were complaining that since the VF-1 toys is smaller than the version 2 1/60 VF-1 from yamato, "why would you bother buying the bandai Himetal VF-1?"

I explained that just because something is small doesn't mean poor value. The transformation of the Himetal is still more enjoyable and better design than the Yamato. The gunpod also looks better imo with a skinnier barrel, and being small means more space for you! (see people forget that: not everyone has massive amounts of space to store this stuff. The toy being small may be seen as a positive for those guys)

Were himetal out of the range of collectors? No. But it is an example of the general macross fanbase looking for reasons to whine about price. lol We are lucky to even SEE things like the VF-4 imo. I wish stuff like Himetal were continued and would love to see a 1/100 YF-19 but whatever. Everyone has a limit on their budget and will just buy the bigger stuff.

When cheap toys were made (the non-transforming toys from yamato that were meant to compete against super posable Revoltechs) people didn't seem all that crazy for it.

If you don't buy the cheap stuff it sends a signal to these companies to make only the high quality toys (not that HiMetal wasn't high grade quality) and ignore the low-budget range.

If the quality has increased, it is an excuse to pay more imo. Because over time you want these toys to last you. Not have to rebuy replacement parts and treat it like a kit where you constantly need to mod your toys to fix stuff that should not have been broken from the beginning when made and approved for sale. I guess I like to think of it like buying art and it is up to you to determine what something is worth.

Some people like me care about things like durability so we want to pay workers more if it means they last. You can not say that about past yamato toys. All these toy companies need to do is give us ample warning of when these will be available so that the average joe can save up enough money and set it aside in advance of release. This way even people who are poor can afford a expensive item. But if they lower price too much and cut corners too much don't you think that sends a message that you don't value the long term worth of the toy?

I remember a long time ago when it was normal to only have 1 1/48 VF-1 from yamato. Then over time people started to get multiples and wanted to have all the variations. It then became an addiction and as time went on it became a competition to see who had the most 1/48 lol.

Now If you can afford to buy an army of VF-1 with different paintschemes, surely one really good YF-19 or VF-4 is within price range right? If you pay the high price it encourages companies to go for the more risky mecha that do not appear in shows much. If they only have 1 chance to do it, you want them to get it right on that one time. Because if it sells poorly at least the existing customers who bought it are stuck with a good attempt at the mech than one where they only put a half-assed effort into it.

Although the price has gotten out of the range of some people, the early adopters can be relied upon to absorb risk. Then if they make profit from that, the company can later re-release cheaper editions for the less desperate fans. (eg YF-19 without the missiles and stand and FP)

But if it doesn't sell well enough, the company can do something else first to get some cashflow, (man dolls?) and then after they profit off of those, attempt to revisit the toy again. But while there is that dry period of no new transforming robots, those who bought the toy before at high price will at least not be stuck with a low quality toy and can at least take satisfaction that although they paid a lot for it, it will last them years. There is no need to return it, wait for 2nd and 3rd release for design flaws to be fixed, and parts breaking easily due to cost cutting measures to keep it in range to sell to the casual fan.

If you want good quality, I would rather pay the high price for it, then pay a low price, but then worry about needing to fix it. I always felt that the feeling that you were being used as a guinea pig was the worst thing about older yamato releases. I don't want to have to worry about that stuff when I buy stuff. It's one of the reasons chunky monkey was so loved for so long, because you knew these would not fall apart.

I have an old Konig Monster and am afraid to transform it too often because I know at some point some of the nubs may weaken. That is the kind of thing as toy collectors we should not have to worry about.

I think if paying a higher price means more robust toys, then it is justified. Especially if it is of a toy that will never sell in high numbers (due to lack of appearance in a popular show) and your chances to "get it right" are limited. (ie there may not be a "second chance to fix flaw" since it isn't worth the effort to revisit again due to lack of interest by the masses and the company going belly up)

We should not have to keep up to date with a list of the "fixed releases that are safe to buy". If it is high quality "masterpiece", it should be of better quality than "non masterpiece" toys, and if it is a rare release because only a few people recognise the mech, then the effort to make it last is important because there may never be a revisit of it again for a long time. (unlike the popular mecha with shows and videogame appearances - many toy companies will gladly do these since they are recognisable)

Initial release - make it expensive but of high quality so if it fails commercially the existing customers never have to worry about wishing for better versions because it was done right the first time.

later release for the casuals - drop the price to reflect the larger base of people out there. (more casuals in existence to sell to than hardcore fans = more overall money to be made from this group, but less profit per sale of the item.)

The casual fan who is not willing to buy rarer valks, wll not be willing to pay a high price like the desperate hardcore fan. So go for the hardcore fan first (price it high) then later (if the initial release goes well) lower price for the casuals but produce more of it. (don't make it limited quantity like bandai was doing for Mac F toys - ONLY do that if the initial release barely breaks even)

"Limited Release" appeals to collectors who will one day feel good knowing they own something others don't have yet, or can't have.

Wide release would be for those who were not crazy for the design, but would still consider buyig if it was cheap and they could get it at a bargain price.

Profit from the desperate fan first. Then use the profits of that "desperate fan" group to continue to produce more of it for the casual fan who do not want all the extras. Since there are going to be more casuals, the release becomes less risky as there are more overall people able to afford the item at the low price.

If they make the initial release cheap, sure maybe more people will buy it, but then the market value of the toy goes down because people instinctively know they overproduced the toy in high numbers and they just wait a long long time for HLJ clearance sales before buying the toy and collectors lose interest.

What they should be doing is they only want to produce enough for the desperate fans first. That way ensure you make profit per sale of item to make it worth it to hardcore collectors who want to buy "rare things" and "limited release" items. Then increase the number of later release based on how much interest there is for cheaper alternatives to the first release. (eg YF-19 without missiles - some people only want to pose it in battroid and may never use these) The emphasis of the need to buy one should be on the quality of the toy itself, not on good value. You can buy a high performance car and like the "high performance" and this is the basis for why you want it. Or you can buy an economy car and like the money being saved by the fuel efficiency when driving to work.

The first group are people who value high performance/quality not "how much money can I save?". So as long as the QUALITY is there, (in this case toys that are durable, no exploding shoulders or lame excuses for why the toy can't lock the chest together in robot mode lol) ..they are prepared to pay extra to keep seeing new products in future at the expense of being wallet-raped. You don't want a situation where you have loads of toys sitting on the shelf collecting dust and people waiting for bargain clearance sale while they are buying bandai toys. You want to limit the initial release to only those who are willing to fork out the higher cost so that the second hand market value is always kept high in the mindset of fans and collectors. Once you overproduce, people will just wait and you get a situation like the destroids where it's not considered a rare item and they wait until after sales are on before jumping in.

Edited January 14, 2014 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[EXO]

Yup! What 1/1 said!

[Gakken85]

That's a good and well thought answer.

You see it with Arcadia making the Hikaru and Roy to generate more cash for the YF-19.

[jvmacross]

nope.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=40095

The "look what I just scored" thread is now at 14 pages....so answer is still "nope"...

[miriya]

Ive become too poor to collect anymore

[Firefox]

I generally believe that the prices are going out of reach for more and more fans. I don't think the previous prices from Yamato were cheap, I think they were pretty reasonable. The current prices from Arcadia are getting steeper as they know people are willing to pay more. How come the same 1/60 VF-1S from two different companies could have the price varies so much? The current prices of the 1/60 VF-1s are the same as the late 1/48 VF-1s. I guess it's all about willingness to pay. You are willing to pay arms and legs, they'll charge you arms and legs.

Bandai prices are still reasonable. One thing I believe they do right is to limit the quantity produced. I know it's a pain when pre-order last only a few minutes and they become discontinued items. But this will keep the value of the toys and they don't have to reduce the price to clear over stock.

With that said, I think I could only afford another one last from Arcadia; looking at their current pricing. I hope they'll re-make the VF-0S. But I cancelled the YF-19 for YF-30, partly because I could only choose one and mainly I don't think YF-19 worth its price. Yes, it's a great toy, but it's not a totally new toy, many parts are re-usable from VF-19. But again, it's about the willingness to pay.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Firefox

[YF-29 Durandal]

$500+ for a used VF-4G... thats what I call crazy prices.

This one went for cheap (not really) and the shipping is a bit pricey (say overcharged) http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMATO-1-60-VF-4G-LIGHTNING-III-30th-ANNIVERSARY-Macross-Robotech-Very-Rare-/171196709778?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27dc1e7b92

Edited January 14, 2014 by YF-29 Durandal

[Mommar]

I feel like comparing Arcadia to Bandai is unfair for may reasons. Bandai largely only trades in the most recent, popular versions that are more likely to be sold in higher numbers and they're a MUCH larger company with their own production lines, ability to absorb losses, etc versus niche. Niche will never win that battle.