Have Macross become out of reach for collectors

[slaginpit]

I know for me it has. Even my Local Hobby store that carries Hot Toys and other expensive collectables is no longer carrying Macross, I asked the owner why and he said they are just too expensive and collectors may justify a hot toys purchase more for 200 dollars than a Valk for 350.

Title should have been "Have Macross toys....."

Edited December 15, 2013 by slaginpit

[YF-29 Durandal]

Hot Toys sells for $400+ on the secondary market so they are just as expensive, imo.

[Mechapilot77]

while 1/6 scale hot toys (and similar) figures is cool as all heck...i can more easily justify 300 for valk (local hobby stores i'm familiar with usually mark things way up..i've seen 150 valks go for 250+ at the time of release) at retail than 200 for toys unless you take into account resale....which i admit is important for some collectors. mostly i think calks are more worth it because for many releases on 1/6 scale...you're essentially paying for a headsculpt and some clothes as so many of the releases use standard bodies etc. i mean i know its different for say iron man or robocop etc. but for the bulk of them (at least a couple years back when i checked)..its kinda a like WTF am i paying for. granted i know most valks are repaints etc....but that body takes a lot more work and engineering to get right.

Edited December 15, 2013 by Mechapilot77

[Kanedas Bike]

Too many variables to even try to address why the OP's local store won't carry Macross items but to answer the general question; No.

It all depends on selling price and the buyers disposable income and willingness to spend it on the item.

I certainly miss the days of a brand new variable VF-1 or YF-19 for $ 70-$80, but that was almost 10 years ago when Yamato first started releasing v1 items from Macross.

-b.

[skullmilitia]

Yeah Hot Toys secondary prices are more insane then anything else out there.

I remember before the reissue the Tumbler was 2K$

Now they are just sitting around for the most part.

Macross has nothing on the absurdity of Hot Toys prices.

[UN Spacy]

Local hobby stores are usually a ripoff (unless you're living overseas) anyways...dem inflated prices.

[SuperSenpai]

It's not that hard to figure out. One company produces adult collector action figures based on popular movie and comic book licenses which are recognized the world over, another company makes adult collector transformable robots that are only recognized in Japan and by a small, cult-like following outside of Japan. The only Macross toy that even approaches mass appeal outside of Japan is the VF-1. Hot Toys and Macross toys are both expensive, but one is much more likely to sell to a broader spectrum of people than the other.

Edited December 15, 2013 by SuperSenpai

[GU-11]

I know for me it has. Even my Local Hobby store that carries Hot Toys and other expensive collectables is no longer carrying Macross, I asked the owner why and he said they are just too expensive and collectors may justify a hot toys purchase more for 200 dollars than a Valk for 350.

Title should have been "Have Macross toys....."

Coincidentally, that's the EXACT same thing that's been happening where I'm at.

While the owner of the hobby store I go to still brought in Arcadia's VF-1 offerings, the YF-19 has been noticeably missing from the list of available pre-orders.

On the question of Bandai's DX chogokin renewals, he said it was too hard to find stock.

With the exception of the much-hyped diecast line of HT figs, the general pricing of their figs is still considered affordable to me, since Hong Kong is located much closer to Malaysia than the US; plus this particular hobby store has the sole distributorship for HT merchandise.

As to the question of whether Macross toys are becoming too expensive for me; the answer is, "yes." Back in the Yamato "era" I could still afford to buy Valks off HLJ and import them if the toys are on discount. But with Arcadia pushing the prices well above the tax-free threshold, I couldn't risk paying an extra 30-40 USD in taxes on top of an already expensive item.

[barurutor]

After one of the local hobby stores here in SG failed to secure the renewal VF-25G thru pre-orders I turned to online sources for Macross toys. Cheaper plus wider selection as well, plus I know where my money's going. After pre-ordering the YF-19 I laugh at the inflated prices charged by local stores for the same thing.

[Falcon18]

Back when Yamato was still around, local stores had them for a reasonable price. So that was still decent. Of course online has always been cheaper but if it kinda saves the hassle to get it locally.

Now, Arcadia's prices themselves are already quite high so can't really blame the local stores for charging it higher and it's way way way cheaper online. Can't blame them really considering the taxes that they'll have to pay + rent. I doubt it's cheap.

I still see a fair share of Macross toys in local stores not lesser than it used to be.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Falcon18

[Gakken85]

Ht seconday will be higher because more people collect. Larger market of people for more popular properties.

Macross is specialized but it has its high end market too. The YF-19 being right at $300 is a big deal.

Its hard to compare them though because Hot toys encompasses so many properties and movies, and macross is just one show. Remember..its a cartoon from 30 years ago! Haha. Lots of Hot Toys have 2 hour commercials from Hollywood that are on the screen or being release on Blu-ray all the time. You can't even get some macross stuff on video in NA. (Zero)

I wouldn't say its out of reach, though. You can get most releases right around $200 or less if you PO on time. I would actually say Macross is a pretty soft market at the moment. Tons of hard to find releases that were artificially high have dropped in price over the last few months.The owner of your shop might be saying there is no money in it for him. Its hard to say. Maybe enough people don't buy for him to make it worth shipping a case over when he's selling out of other stuff.

It's important to keep in mind though, that Macross collecting isn't for everybody. You just have to love Valks! haha. The transformation alone is a bit of barrier for some people too. Transformation and articulation for robots is a selling point, but HT has a quality and value that you don't see anywhere else.

Personally, I have been really impressed with every Hot Toys release I buy and I'm having a blast collecting them. At the same time, phasing out my Bandai frontier stuff to the point that I might only keep Luca. I feel they are very overpriced for the actual quality you get in the box in terms of paint apps and materials. Plus they tend to loosen for no reason! That's not something I'm happy with. Plus I had a terrible experience with the VF-171. I'm at the point where id much rather have a hot toys release for $200, than a valk I have 3 copies of already, that has slightly different colors and a new head. Once you get valk transformation down, its all a rehash in that it's not very different from release to release.

But my situation is a little different than most. I enjoyed Frontier a lot but I don't have a deep connection to it. I didn't like + at all, so the new 19 holds no interest to me. Cancelling my PO was easy at that price. There Just isn't a lot interesting me right now...where as on the flip side I'm really enjoying finding Hot Toys from movies/comics that really meant something to me in the past and present. The Hulk, Predator, The Terminator, Ect.

I wil still collect SDF releases and support Arcadia, but I'll have to wait for their next project. I'm done with Bandai until they do something different,or make a less frustrating product. I don't play the Macross video games either, so having video game Valks that are minor tweaks to Frontier valks or whatever doesn't get me that excited.

BUT to go back to your question, in the end the average collector would rather have a really boss Iron Man action figure over a weird looking transformer. Not that average is better, but I think the value is stronger to the casual guy. Plus, there is no real Macross property to excite people. I think we really need a live action movie. HT has a really slick product that holds its value well. Where as with Macross you end up paying more to PO, then it's worth less money after release. It's very frustrating. Macross on the other hand has sweet engineering and killer articulation. The accessories are pretty much the same song and dance; Missiles, pilot, stand ect. It can also be frustrating to transform and or display out of the box.

I think the yf-19 is really going to be a make or break moment for Macross collecting. Frontier and Vf-1 rehashes can't last forever when it comes to keeping people interested beyond the die-hards and generating enough interest to keep companies making toys. I would love to see a high level chogokin deluxe VF-1 or something.

But yeah, buying from a retailer adds a lot of variables unfortunately. They have to pay, rent, shipping and employees.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Gakken85

[Mechapilot77]

good points. avg. joe collector's consciousness is tied in the "now" and relevant. that is one reason hot toys does so well. its also a low barrier or entry to be a fan of a movie....you sit through 2 hours and you love it or not. something like macross is not accessible really to most people especially outside of japan. if there were a large budget international theatrical release(live action or anime/cig), i'd have no doubt macross aftermarket would shoot through the roof. unfortunately that will never happen so long as HG has the stranglehold outside of japan....even though they are in my amateur opinion ultimately not right legally....nobody wants to go into the risk of the legal action and potential lost profit. at least nobody has shown the willingness yet.

getting back to the topic...besides the sheer price of things(can one afford it)..."out of reach" really depends on what value you as the consumer puts on something...

[SuperSenpai]

It's kinda funny reading people's complaints about their local hobby shop overcharging for Macross product. Frankly, I'm amazed that you have a local hobby shop that would carry Macross product at all. But then I see that some of you are posting from Hong Kong or Singapore. Where I live in the states, there are several comic book/gaming/trading card shops in the area, and none of them carry Macross product. There's a local anime/manga shop, and their toy selection mostly consists of Gundam figures and model kits, Dragon Ball action figures, that type of things. They carry a few G1 reissue Transformers, and some Toynami Robotech MPC toys from the The New Generation (Mospeada) series. No Macross.

[jvmacross]

nope.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=40095

[Falcon18]

nope.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=40095

QFT!

[Froy]

For collectors, No.

Collectors will anyway have money to buy stuff. They are collectors for some reason (money, free money enough to cover their spending in what ever they collect).

For casual buyers (kinda) my self included, things are getting really out of control.

[Mommar]

It sucks that some of you can't afford it, but just because you personally can't doesn't mean it's "out of reach for collectors." The fact some of us keep buying means it isn't out of reach, like it or not.

I would say that largely Macross is out of reach of collectors due more to Harmony Gold then any price barrier.

[Matt Random]

I think it has to do with the fan-base and the property itself. There probably aren't too many people impulse buying valks and the usual collectors just import the items themselves to save a few bucks. Hot Toys properties are often readily recognizable which makes it easier to tempt people.

Having said that, a local comic shop did have a Super VF-27 that was priced above retail. It was gone from the store in 2 weeks.

[slaginpit]

My initial comparison on hot toys was just an observation. I know some HT are now selling at 400 plus ie the new Robo Cop figures and IRON MAN toys . But I always like the valks but compared to the release v1's of the MF line. I just dont understand why the prices have doubled? Like I said the local carrier used to carry lots of Macross stuff and he would usually match the online retailers price, or sometimes tag an extra 20 bucks which is reasonable. But WTH man. Collecting has become such an elitist thing. I guess it always has been but I never thought it would happen with Macross. Also resale value is pretty low with all the versions that keep coming out.

[Vifam7]

To answer the original poster's question - I would opine "Not yet". Hardcore Macross collectors (which many here at MW are) will continue to pay the price if they desire the product. Heck, I'm pretty sure some here will gladly pay up to US$1K for a 1/60 Cutlass or Star Mirage. Afterall, there was a time where folks were paying that much for a Takatoku or Bandai 1/55.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Vifam7

[slaginpit]

It's kinda funny reading people's complaints about their local hobby shop overcharging for Macross product. Frankly, I'm amazed that you have a local hobby shop that would carry Macross product at all. But then I see that some of you are posting from Hong Kong or Singapore. Where I live in the states, there are several comic book/gaming/trading card shops in the area, and none of them carry Macross product. There's a local anime/manga shop, and their toy selection mostly consists of Gundam figures and model kits, Dragon Ball action figures, that type of things. They carry a few G1 reissue Transformers, and some Toynami Robotech MPC toys from the The New Generation (Mospeada) series. No Macross.

Lots of people here carry Macross or did. China is moving here to canada. So we can get things like that when they did

To answer the original poster's question - I would opine "Not yet". Hardcore Macross collectors (which many here at MW are) will continue to pay the price if they desire the product. Heck, I'm pretty sure some here will gladly pay up to US$1K for a 1/60 Cutlass or Star Mirage. Afterall, there was a time where folks were paying that much for a Takatoku or Bandai 1/55.

So by your definition if I think that its too expesive for a valk I am not a hard core fan??? Do you really mean fan for fanatic?

Edited December 16, 2013 by slaginpit

[jvmacross]

You know a thread is about to go critical mass when terms like "elitist", "hard core" and "fanatic" start creeping into a discussion.....

[Mommar]

I think it does. I'm not "hardcore collector" enough to pay 1K for any of these toys. But somebody here is, and they did for those 1/55's (which I cannot personally fathom.)

To be fair, he said hardcore collector versus hardcore fan. Those two things are mutually exclusive.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Mommar

[Scyla]

Well it depends. I think that the Bandai Valkyries are decently priced. The problem there was that you had almost no chance to get them at MSRP. Yamcadia however is getting more and more expensive. Releases like the VF-17D, the VF-4G and now the YF-19 are close to what I would pay.

Then again I don't have any interest for the 1/6 scale dolls with their uncanny faces so I never understood where the appeal for HT comes from. Some of the stuff looks cool like the Ironman suits but I don't think they are cheap either. Stuff like the Hall of Armor is in my opinion not worth the price based on the review I saw.

Also stuff like third party Transformers or the after market prices like the TRU MP-10 are also quite high. I don't want to harp on the Uranos jets again but I just can't see where the TFC F-16 Falcon is a different toy then G1 Dreadwing.

In the end it all depends on your collecting habits. The chances are high that the YF-19 will be the only new release from Arcadia for 2014 so there is time to save up. The same goes for Bandai who might only have the Tornado Parts and the YF-30 as new releases. So if you're willing to focus on only collecting Valks I think the market has cooled down enough so it is still affordable to buy all the new molds that are out.

I myself restricted some of my toy shopping sprees. I don't buy the regular Transformer releases in stores anymore for example. Or I don't buy multiple copies of one toy. I know it would be cool to have 10 VF-25S (the Messiah, Super Messiah, Armored Messiah each in ever mode and one for storage) but that is something I cannot afford. So naturally I will only buy one YF-19.

If the prices are low enough so Valkyries make money for Bandai and Arcadia is a totally different question.

[Vifam7]

So by your definition if I think that its too expesive for a valk I am not a hard core fan??? Do you really mean fan for fanatic?

No need to feel that you're not "hardcore" if you believe a product is too expensive. We all have differing priorities. But it does take someone with a different mindset or priority to put down big money to buy a toy. I'm using the term "hardcore" for that definition. It's not to determine someone's worthiness as a collector or Macross fan.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Vifam7

[Falcon18]

I myself restricted some of my toy shopping sprees. I don't buy the regular Transformer releases in stores anymore for example. Or I don't buy multiple copies of one toy. I know it would be cool to have 10 VF-25S (the Messiah, Super Messiah, Armored Messiah each in ever mode and one for storage) but that is something I cannot afford. So naturally I will only buy one YF-19.

Same here. I'm only buying those that I really want as I know I won't be able to afford them all. I've even held back buying the renewal Messiahs just cause I have the Bandai kit version. May be a floppy mess but it holds and looks in fighter decent enough. The 19's a little over the budget but it's something that I've wanted and the fighter is nice so I'll go with it just once. Don't think i'll spend that much again unless I see another that makes me go "want want want". Not even the VF-4 I only buy Macross too. So any extra savings I can get will be directed to it.

All in all. I think it comes down to how much you as a collector or non-collector even, really wants said valk and to what means you would save for your purchase. There's always a decent time from announcement to release so there will always be time to save up

Edited December 17, 2013 by Falcon18

[Valkyrie addict]

I don't think Macross is out of reach for collectors.

You have many options to start collecting besides Yamarcadia and Bandai. There's so much saturation of the VF-1 from many companies in many scales to start a simple collection and grow from it. Look at the 1/144 Chara works valks, you can collect a fleet of almost every VF-1 scheme for far less than a couple of Hot Toy.

Bandai has made it a bit difficult to collect Macross Frontier toys but the casual collector will want the iconic hero valk, in other words, a VF-25 Alto, not a YF-29 Ozma custom. So they could spend the ridiculous aftermarket price of an Alto custom if that's the valk they want. But Macross will always be a niche market thanks to HG blockade preventing better exposure out of Japan. In the past local Hobby shops could get away selling stuff like Macross because they were the only ones exporting and selling, but with the internet you can get your stuff yourself instead of asking a third party, hence, it's not profitable for them to stock hard to sell niche items.

Hot Toys are beautiful, I don't feel the need for one, but I understand why the casual collector would rather buy a highly recognizable Hot Toy of the Dark Knight's Joker than a japanese robot. Besides, the Ironman suit is Hot Toys equivalent of the VF-1, repaint galore.

Collecting is just like doing your groceries, you must know what you want and like, what's best for you, where to get it and at the best price. Besides, people will pay stupid prices for anything

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ANYTHING http://twentytwowords.com/2013/05/16/canvas-painted-blue-with-a-white-line-sells-for-nearly-44-million-4-pictures/

Edited December 17, 2013 by Valkyrie addict

[GU-11]

Wait, are we talking about the individual collector, as in just your personal situation, or collectors in general?

I'm asking because some of the comments here seem to taking a much broader perspective than just their own situation.

[Knightdramon]

First off...let me clear one small detail I caught up.

DX Chogokin Frontier prices have NOT doubled since the days of V1. The V1 sold for like 12.000 yen, the V2 sold for 14.000something yen.

Blame the currency exchange rate, blame middlemen taking their cut, blame the market itself, but not the retail price.

Secondly, I find the notion of "my local import store doesn't carry macross merchandise" somewhat ridiculous, seeing as at least in Europe, if you find ONE store with ONE VFanymodel in it, it'll be like 4 times above japanese retail. So no thanks, I don't deal with local import stores and even if I had the option, at those prices, I wouldn't.

And with the way macross figures are being released right now, even the high prices cannot bother one too much. If you have 15 iterations of the VF1 by Yamato, you're less likely to buy one from Yamato. If the only brand new mould of the year is the VF4, even the original 25.000 yen price isn't much, considering it's essentially broken down by 12 months.

[Gakken85]

It's kinda funny reading people's complaints about their local hobby shop overcharging for Macross product. Frankly, I'm amazed that you have a local hobby shop that would carry Macross product at all. But then I see that some of you are posting from Hong Kong or Singapore. Where I live in the states, there are several comic book/gaming/trading card shops in the area, and none of them carry Macross product. There's a local anime/manga shop, and their toy selection mostly consists of Gundam figures and model kits, Dragon Ball action figures, that type of things. They carry a few G1 reissue Transformers, and some Toynami Robotech MPC toys from the The New Generation (Mospeada) series. No Macross.

Same here.

My state doesn't even have a shop that carries this stuff. If there is a convention it's all Gundam crap, which I have no interest in.

I have to order everything online haha.

But yeah these discussions are popping up everywhere. Transformers forums. Hot Toys forums. Prices are going up due to inflation and it's pricing some people out of the market.

Just buy less per year I guess, or sell some old stuff.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Gakken85

[GU-11]

I must be one lucky son-of-a-gun, because my local (Asian) hobby store actually sells Valks at cheaper prices than HLJ, when you factor in shipping and import taxes.

And no, I'm not gloating...much.

But yeah these discussions are popping up everywhere. Transformers forums. Hot Toys forums. Prices are going up due to inflation and it's pricing some people out of the market.

Just buy less per year I guess, or sell some old stuff.

It's a good thing Hasbro's policy of simplifying their TF's have resulted in some pretty crappy toys in their main lines--basically saved a ton of money from skipping the whole TF Prime line. If only I wasn't addicted to TT's MP line and just bought a new home theater system, or I'd be able to afford the YF-19 during HLJ's Black Friday sale.

[Funkenstein]

Number one problem for Macross toys is that they don't have official distributors outside of Japan. Thats probably the biggest reason you don't see them often in local stores.

[auberondreaming]

I think Arcadia is excluding many of the Macross collectors with their new pricing strategy. I would love to hear how that 30th issue ugly as hell (IMO) vf-1j sold for them at that price.

I don't think I understand Arcadia's business model, or perhaps I don't understand the Japanese market. If I ran Arcadia, I would look at the demand for certain paint schemes, and the first reissue I would do would be the max/miriya combo. Reissuing Roy's and Rick's DYRL paint schemes again? When at least the rick DYRL was always discounted on HLJ and NY as far as I recall? And now you're going to throw in a stand and charge close to double what we were able to get those toys for when they languished on shelves before? Why start out with the soft market as your first reissues? Guarantee some sales to get set up with. If the demand was there then the increase in price would be justified by the market, but these choices are just confusing.

Almost doubling the price for the yf-19 compared to Yamato yf-19s seems ill advised as well, though its nice you get all the parts with the toy. I can at least kind of understand that, it's a nice package. But where do you go from here? What can you continue to charge 300+ for as Arcadia? What would you guys pay that price point for? Ricks paint scheme on a vf-4? That's all I can think of.

[Kanedas Bike]

Across the board prices go up on everything.

Whether that be collectible toys, to food, to gas, to this, that or the other. Including the costs for manufacturers and producers to bring these items to market. Sure it sucks that the cost of certain items, across the board, can and do price consumers out of the market.

I think we've all had items that are hard, if not impossible, to justify buying.

Just a quick note, the Yamato VF-19S listed at 22,000 JPY with the Arcadia YF-19 with included Fast Packs, missiles and the always popular display stand at 32,800 JPY. That's a lot of extras for the 10,000 JPY bump - especially when you consider what Bandai and Yamato have traditionally charged for armor packages.

*pricing info from HLJ - using LIST prices

-b.

[Knightdramon]

I don't think I understand Arcadia's business model, or perhaps I don't understand the Japanese market. If I ran Arcadia, I would look at the demand for certain paint schemes, and the first reissue I would do would be the max/miriya combo. Reissuing Roy's and Rick's DYRL paint schemes again? When at least the rick DYRL was always discounted on HLJ and NY as far as I recall? And now you're going to throw in a stand and charge close to double what we were able to get those toys for when they languished on shelves before? Why start out with the soft market as your first reissues? Guarantee some sales to get set up with. If the demand was there then the increase in price would be justified by the market, but these choices are just confusing.

Almost doubling the price for the yf-19 compared to Yamato yf-19s seems ill advised as well, though its nice you get all the parts with the toy. I can at least kind of understand that, it's a nice package. But where do you go from here? What can you continue to charge 300+ for as Arcadia? What would you guys pay that price point for? Ricks paint scheme on a vf-4? That's all I can think of.

Hmmm. The way I see it, Arcadia is playing it REAL safe.

Their first 3 releases are the biggest hero valkyries of macross lore. While Max is generally popular, having watched the SDFM and DYRL series and movie with my sister [a complete outsider]...he doesn't really do much. The 1S gets a lot of screen time, while his 1J appears for less than 20-30 minutes in total, maybe even less, from episode 25 or so until the end of the series.

From a poll somebody put up the past few months, Roy's Strike 1S is THE most popular mecha in the franchise. Literally every company that produced macross toys started out with that one.

On the topic of prices, there is an increase yes, but not as dramatic as you make it out to be. For the YF19 bundle, I can most definitely see where the money is going. Barring the fold booster, it's the most complete release of releases for that mecha, EVER.

And considering how niche the macross market is, bar the VF1, YF19 and VF25, I'm surprised we're getting things like all the VF19 variants, the VF17 or even the VF4