VF-1SOL

[Aegis!]

I recently got to play Scramble Valkyrie for SNES and realised that the VF featured wasn´t a standard VF-1 as I previously assumed (silly me <_< ) . Anyway , I got interested and started to do some research but came out with nothing apart from the fact that it was solely designed for the SV game.

So , I´m wondering , where do it fit in the timeline ? is it canon or not ? What was its purpose and what diference did it have with the VF-1 ? and finally , what are those things on the back ? kinda like sound boosters or something

I was also surpried by the fact that the last Boss in the game was very reminiscent of the protodeviln thus making this issue even more interesting as the game was released a long time before M7.

I got curious because I suddenly started to see some similarities with the VF-0 (more streamlined design for example). I don´t remember if it was here but I think I saw a big scan of the game leaflet where the VF-1SOL can be apreciated better. So far I´ve only found this illustration by Mikimoto:

[Druna Skass]

I got curious because I suddenly started to see some similarities with the VF-0 (more streamlined design for example). I don´t remember if it was here but I think I saw a big scan of the game leaflet where the VF-1SOL can be apreciated better. So far I´ve only found this illustration by Mikimoto:

The head looks closer to the VF-2SS than the VF-0S to me...

I'm not sure, but I think it's in that DYRL-Macross II mess...

Edited December 19, 2003 by Druna Skass

[ewilen]

Here's another picture (from the games section).

[the white drew carey]

I don't think it's canon in the Macross timeline.

But you know what: A lot of people keep asking if the VF-1 will be redesigned at the end of M-0 to look more similar to the VF-0, but the VF-1SOL seen here in the game seems to do that already.

[JB0]

If one wanted to try and fit M:SV in, it has to take place before the launch of the Megaroad 1, as Hikaru is unavailable after that point in the timeline.

The Max and Millia paint schemes, as well as Max and Milla's presence in Valkyries instead of QRaus IMPLY, but do not PROVE, post-TV continuity, as opposed to post-movie continuity.

But Scrambled Valkyrie's actually one of those "Who cares about the timeline? Let's just whore the license" games like the PCEngine CDs were.

...

Fortunately Macross does VERY GOOD in those kinds of games, especially when compared to the (generally disliked) games that DO fit the continuity(VFX series and M3).

[Commander McBride]

Woah, that thing really looks disturbingly like the VF-0.

[Aegis!]

I don't think it's canon in the Macross timeline.

But you know what: A lot of people keep asking if the VF-1 will be redesigned at the end of M-0 to look more similar to the VF-0, but the VF-1SOL seen here in the game seems to do that already.

Yeah , that´s precisely why this VF grabbed my attention , it seems appropriate looks-wise to be what the VF-1 should look like by M0 standards.

The VF-1SOL gathers a lot of characteristics from many Macross series , or rather the other way around , The boosters that deploy from the legs and shoulder look very similar to the VF-19 Kai sound boosters but I´m assuming they serve another purpose like energy absorbtion or beam cannons.

The head unit is very similar to the VF-0S head unit ( no ¨plain¨ faceplate like the 1S ) and as I previously said , the 1SOL looks a lot more streamlined that the plain VF-1. If this game was commissioned by Big West and Studio Nue I´d at least assume it´s considered to be within the Macross universe , I should check the compendium once again but I´m pretty sure it´s there.

Maybe the VF-1SOl took advantage of the overtechnology tests made by the VF-0 (hence the similarities) but by the time it was produced it was too late and was re`placed by the relatively cheaper VF-4 (or vice versa in regards to the VF-0 technology ).

Just a question though , does the VF-1SOL appear in the Macross Desing Works book or not?

[the white drew carey]

Actually, IIRC, some of those games, including this one, are not Studio Nue projects, but BigWest projects.

The VF-1SOL isn't a Kawamori design. Hence, it isn't in the Shoji Kawamori Macross Design Works book.

[yellowlightman]

Actually, IIRC, some of those games, including this one, are not Studio Nue projects, but BigWest projects.

It was released in 1993, before Studio Nue took control of the license again with Macross Plus and 7.

[Lightning]

maybe Scrambled Valkyrie is a game within the Macross universe??

[Skull Leader]

It has been predominantly believed that M:SV was more in the Macross II timeline due to the nature of the Valkyrie designs. Remember, Kawamori and company had NOTHING to do with this game... so looking for links with Macross Zero or Macross Plus are foundless. Especially since the game was out long before the other two series were.

chances are it's either on it's own, or part of the MII universe... IT IS NOT CANON

[JB0]

The VF-1SOL gathers a lot of characteristics from many Macross series , or rather the other way around , The boosters that deploy from the legs and shoulder look very similar to the VF-19 Kai sound boosters but I´m assuming they serve another purpose like energy absorbtion or beam cannons.

Actually, as I understand it, the gold aura you get when you don't fire is called a minmay beam or something similar.

And it turns enemy vehicles to your side.

So they may be more like Mac7 than you realize.

...

And the chain weapon that Max uses in GERWALK mode is pretty obviously a relative of the pinpoint barrier seen on the YF-16 and -21.

And Millia's battroid weapon is over-powered enough to be related to that snap-on super cannon the YF-19 uses in one scene of Mac Plus.

...

DAMN YOU ALL! NOW I'M DOING IT TOO!

[Hikuro]

to be honest, I didn't like the game...while it's popular amongst the fans, I found it boring...beat it in 30 minutes and heh atleast in the pics you get to see some minmay bewbies

[JB0]

to be honest, I didn't like the game...while it's popular amongst the fans, I found it boring...beat it in 30 minutes and heh atleast in the pics you get to see some minmay bewbies

On what difficulty level, and with what pilot?

Some levels are a LOT harder with the wrong pilot(Max's only really powerful weapon is NOT RANGED, for example, which makes many enemies a pain in the butt).

[Hikuro]

Pilot: Hikaru

Difficulty: Hard I think...it's been a few years and I was a pro at side scrollers...last one I played was the DYRL game for the PS

[Aegis!]

It has been predominantly believed that M:SV was more in the Macross II timeline due to the nature of the Valkyrie designs. Remember, Kawamori and company had NOTHING to do with this game... so looking for links with Macross Zero or Macross Plus are foundless. Especially since the game was out long before the other two series were.

chances are it's either on it's own, or part of the MII universe... IT IS NOT CANON

That´s precisely my point , considering this game wasn´t one of Kawamori´s work it´s a nice coincidence that the VF-1SOL shares some similarities with other later Macross series.

What I´m curious about though is the fact that the VF-1SOL more streamlined design could be used as a refference to what the VF-1 should look like in M0 , considering the VF-1SOL design doesn´t differ that much from the original VF-1 design ( unlike the VF-2SS) while at the same time looking more updated and yet still different from the VF-0.

[JB0]

Pilot: Hikaru

Difficulty: Hard I think...it's been a few years and I was a pro at side scrollers...last one I played was the DYRL game for the PS

Hikaru's weapons tend to be good all-around, as I recall. Not as much power in any mode as Max's energy chain and Millia's big blaster, but more powerful overall.

As well as better at hitting hard targets. The lasers were the best piercing weapon by far, and the grenades were the best vertical weapons by virtue of power and predictability(the homing laser did some retarded thigns sometimes, and Millia had no real vertical strike capability).

I suck at side-scrollers, though.

[Skull Leader]

LOL..

VF-1SOL (crap Outta Luck)

seems appropriate.

[myk]

It's still a beautiful Valkyrie though......

[Aegis!]

OK , I just beat the game 5 mins ago , and from the credits it seems that Kawamori himself was involved in the 1SOL design , other than that I don´t know why it wasn´t included in the Macross Design Works but it should at least serve as a guide as to how should the VF-1 look like in M0 IMO.

I´m still curious about the weapon accesories the VF-1SOL features and their function , any one care to speculate ?

[Skull Leader]

It's probably not in there because it isn't part of the Canon macross world. I can't say for certain (I don't own the book myself). I didn't think it looked so hot... certainly not as cool as a standard VF-1. and the gunpod looks like someone hit it with a retard stick.

[Aegis!]

It's probably not in there because it isn't part of the Canon macross world. I can't say for certain (I don't own the book myself). I didn't think it looked so hot... certainly not as cool as a standard VF-1. and the gunpod looks like someone hit it with a retard stick.

That´s what makes this valk even more interesting , it certainly was designed by Kawamori , just like the VF-1/SDP-1 Stampede Valkyrie which is never featured in any Macross production yet it´s still included in the Macross Design works. Both valks were designed by the same man , neither of the two were ever featured in a Macross production and yet the Stampede appears in MDW unlike the VF-SOL which pretty much serves the same function.

[ewilen]

How do you know the VF-1SOL was designed by Kawamori?

[Aegis!]

How do you know the VF-1SOL was designed by Kawamori?

Cause it says so in the Game credits

[ewilen]

Ah, I missed that post. Well, are you sure the credits say that? Could they just be crediting Kawamori for the original Macross concept and/or the original Valkyrie design on which the SOL is based? Because others have commented in this thread that the game was made by BW without SN's input. Notice that the credits for Macross II (shown here) credit Studio Nue even though they didn't do the actual designs.

Edited December 29, 2003 by ewilen

[the white drew carey]

It's probably not in there because it isn't part of the Canon macross world. I can't say for certain (I don't own the book myself). I didn't think it looked so hot... certainly not as cool as a standard VF-1.  and the gunpod looks like someone hit it with a retard stick.

That´s what makes this valk even more interesting , it certainly was designed by Kawamori , just like the VF-1/SDP-1 Stampede Valkyrie which is never featured in any Macross production yet it´s still included in the Macross Design works. Both valks were designed by the same man , neither of the two were ever featured in a Macross production and yet the Stampede appears in MDW unlike the VF-SOL which pretty much serves the same function.

The SDP-1 does appear in a Macross production. It's either Macross: Remember Me or Macross: Skull Leader... But I can't remember which.

[the white drew carey]

During the credits it lists Kawamori as "Original Valkyrie Designer", but it doesn't specify as to whether or not that means he designed the original Valk for the game, or just valks in general.

My favorite part has to be when you fight the final boss in his first version: Starchild from 2001: A Space Oddysey.

[Aegis!]

It's probably not in there because it isn't part of the Canon macross world. I can't say for certain (I don't own the book myself). I didn't think it looked so hot... certainly not as cool as a standard VF-1.  and the gunpod looks like someone hit it with a retard stick.

That´s what makes this valk even more interesting , it certainly was designed by Kawamori , just like the VF-1/SDP-1 Stampede Valkyrie which is never featured in any Macross production yet it´s still included in the Macross Design works. Both valks were designed by the same man , neither of the two were ever featured in a Macross production and yet the Stampede appears in MDW unlike the VF-SOL which pretty much serves the same function.

The SDP-1 does appear in a Macross production. It's either Macross: Remember Me or Macross: Skull Leader... But I can't remember which.

I meant a animated series , not other games.

In any case , both design are featured in non-animated Macross productions yet the SDP-1 is favoured to appear in MDW. what gives ?

During the credits it lists Kawamori as "Original Valkyrie Designer", but it doesn't specify as to whether or not that means he designed the original Valk for the game, or just valks in general.

I agree that Kawamori is not listed as ¨VF-1SOL designer¨ he´s just loosely mentioned as the designer overall , but if he didn´t really design the SOl variant then someone else would´ve been listed as the Mecha designer , whereas in the game credits everyone is listed with by their specific involvement in the game such as the enemy mecha designer or the ¨object¨ desginer. I wouldn´t think they would go through the pain of listing everyone as well as their specific jobs without mentioning whoever else designed the VF-1SOl if there was someone else.

what I mean is , if they actually listed the guy who made the bullet animations why wouldn´t they mention who made the VF-1SOL instead of Kawamori if he supposedly didn´t do it ?

Edited December 30, 2003 by Aegis!

[ewilen]

That's a good point, but are the VF's from Macross II in Design Works? If not, I think we have weak evidence that a Valk makes it into Design Works if and only if it was designed by Kawamori. I.e., not in DW means not by Kawamori.

[Aegis!]

That's a good point, but are the VF's from Macross II in Design Works? If not, I think we have weak evidence that a Valk makes it into Design Works if and only if it was designed by Kawamori. I.e., not in DW means not by Kawamori.

ahem....the Macross II valks weren´t designed by Kawamori , that´s why they don´t appear in the MDWs book.

My theory is that , although Kawamori designed the SOL variant he didn´t think it was worth featuring in the MDW book because of the little relevance it has within the Macross unniverse (Macross had not yet expanded beyond DYRL in those years and Kawamori himself wasn´t interested that much in expanding Macross , hence this little in-game variant wasn´t relevant at all in Macross ).

I think the SOl variant came a bit too soon in the scene when Macross wasn´t a priority for Kawamori, if it was featured in some other post-M+ game though I think it would´ve much more attention cause of all the renewal of Macross , like the Neo-Glaug did i.e. it only was designed for M+: GE , yet it was featured in MDWs.

[the white drew carey]

Aegis- I'm curious if we played different versions of the game?

On the ROM I played, the credits at the end were all in english, but there weren't any specific credit mentions such as you've described. For example, there were like 10-15 people listed under the generic heading of "Graphics", or something like that.

Too bad I didn't do a screen grab of those credits. Stupid me!

Anyhow, although there is ambiguity to Kawamori's credit, I personally believe that he did design the VF-1SOL for the game. Aside from the "Sound Force"-type weapon, many features in the physical design of the VF-1SOL are immediately evident in Kawamori designs made after the game came out in 1993, up to and including Macross: Zero.

As to why it didn't appear in MDW? Just as you stated earlier, it's probably due to the fact that the VF-1SOL is not in Macross canon.

Who knows? It's a mystery for the ages.

[ewilen]

So the criterion for inclusion in DW is whether it's canon or not? What about the Advanced Valkyrie stuff? Isn't some of that non-canon? Is it in DW?

Edited December 30, 2003 by ewilen

[the white drew carey]

So the criterion for inclusion in DW is whether it's canon or not? What about the Advanced Valkyrie stuff? Isn't some of that non-canon? Is it in DW?

I think the difference is that most, if not all, of the Advanced Valkyrie designs are considered canon. A number of them appear in the Macross M3 game which is included in the Macross chronology.

I was just tossing out my reasoning on why I think Kawamori had a direct hand in the VF-1SOL design and why I also think that it's not in MDW.

Secondly, ewilen- Calm down. Short sentences, all questions, in quick succession gives the impression that you're getting riled up or something. Take breather, relax... Think of Hugh Downs nekkid. Mmmm...

[ewilen]

Sorry for the impression. Nope, I'm not riled. Cool as a cucumber. Thanks for the answers, though.

[Aegis!]

Ok , I finally found the pic I was looking for , here you can appreciate the VF-1SOl in fighter mode , as you can see there isn´t much differences in design to the VF-1 as with the VF-0 which is more modern looking.

I think the SOl variant represents the perfect medium between the classic VF-1 look and the more modern VF-0 , if the VF-1 is to appear in M0 I think this is how the VF-1 should be represented (without the weapon sets of course) , the Low-vis pilot would look really nice in one of these