VF-22 weapon bay options for RPG

[Andras]

I'm trying to build the VF-22 in Mekton. In M:7, Max fires 40 missiles from the VF-22. 20 from the dorsal launchers and 10 from each of the ventral launchers (5 volleys of 8 missiles).

Then there's the gunpod and the large missile also stored in the bays.

For the purposes of building the modular pallet system, I gave each bay 6 spaces. The 10 shot SRM pallet is 2 spaces and the gunpod is 4 spaces.

I have a 4 space x10 scale nuke missile as an option, as well as a 2 shot HM-MRM pallet also 4 spaces, each of which can take the place of the gunpod.

Does that sound reasonable? Suggestions?

Alternately I can just make the 10 shot SRMs fixed and only worry about the remaining 4 spaces, but it seems those are part of the pallet system.

[valhary]

you mean this?

[sketchley]

This is what I and a few others came up with quite a few years ago regarding those internal weapon bays. It's designed for the Palladium system, but the number of missiles/bombs should be readily convertible.

http://sketchleystats.webatu.com/Statistics/Avionics/VFPallet.php

[Andras]

Valharry- yes those and the ones used by Max too.

Sketchley-

Is the 3rd pallet bay ever used in animation? I'm inclined to ignore it at the moment, as it doesn't seem to be used at all. If I have to include it I may make it a 4spc bay w/o the capability of taking SRM launchers.

Max fired 20 missiles (of 40 total), a big missile and drew a gunpod in M7 from the ventral bays. If there was any ordnance in a 3rd pallet bay he completely ignored it.

One of the MW threads I've used as a reference:

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=35986

Thanks for the replies.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Andras

[sketchley]

The 3rd pallet bay comes from the Macross Compendium. I have no idea what the source is for that information.

http://macross.anime.net/mecha/united_nations/variable/vf22/index.html

From what I understand, the gun pods are stowed in separate internal spaced, dedicated to the gun pods. Those other 3 are different.

The image Valhary provided shows the large reaction missiles being launched from the positions where the gun pods are normally stowed.

So, my current view is: all internal weapon bays or on the bottom. The smaller B-7 pallets are immediately in front of the larger gun pod or B-11A pallets. Where does that other B-7 sized pallet fit in (if it exists at all) - I always felt it was either in the nose or the rear of the craft between the two engine nacelles.

[Andras]

If I had to choose a location for the 3rd pallet bay I'd select the central portion of the blue area in this image:

http://www.macross2.net/m3/macross7/vf-22/colorcode-vf22.gif

[sketchley]

Won't work, as the top and bottom (front and back in Fighter) separate to become the waist joint (lower torso and hips) and the upper part (front in Fighter) opens so that the nose can slot into it when transforming to Battroid.

[Andras]

I think I'll just ignore it then and go with the two in the leg covers.

Thanks.

[sketchley]

I think I'll just ignore it then and go with the two in the leg covers.

Thanks.

You mean four.

[Graham]

I thought it had been established that for each of the 2 x ventral bays (leg cover panels) on the VF-22, it was a choice between either gunpod or large reaction missile, but not both at the same time.

This would neatly explain why Max is shown only using one gunpod in battroid mode during operation Stargazer, as his other weapons bay was holding the single large reaction missile that he fired into the roof of the cave.

The micro-missile launchers on the leg bay cover panels are of course standard, irrespective of whether that leg panel is equipped with a gunpod or large reaction missile.

Graham

[Andras]

I'm going with a 6 space bay on each side in the leg cover panels, normally holding a 2 spc SRM pallet and a 4 spc gun pod, either the GV17 or the BP14

The 4 spc gun pod can be replaced with a two 2spc missiles, or one 3 or 4 spc missile.

I unsure of my options to replace the 2 spc SRM pallet right now. I could have a single HM-MRM or LRM in it's place, or a 16 shot HMMM pallet. Or I can just build them in permanently and only worry about the 4 spce gunpod/missile bays.

The big missiles came out from directly behind the gunpod's firing ports so I don't see where else the gunpods could be stored except in those locations.

In M:+ the YF-21 fired nearly 80 missiles from the dorsal and FAST launchers. In M:7 Max fired 40 from the dorsal and leg cover launchers combined.

Since the number of missile is halved I gave the VF-22 harder hitting SRMs. That also makes it more of a distance fighter then the close in monster the VF-19 will be with HMMM pallets in it's legs. Both the VF-19 and VF-22 can carry the same ordnance load on the wings.

I'm looking at the compendium, your site, MrMarch's site, SteelFalcon, various scenes from the anime and line art and trying to build a composite I can be happy with.

Both files updated on my Google drive folder

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2MWVpzB0HSITFkxeXI4cG1mS2M/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2MWVpzB0HSIS2Z3WnJCeEp5Zzg/edit?usp=sharing

Edited August 11, 2013 by Andras

[sketchley]

I thought it had been established that for each of the 2 x ventral bays (leg cover panels) on the VF-22, it was a choice between either gunpod or large reaction missile, but not both at the same time.

With the materials I've read/translated, it hasn't been established one way or the other.

[sketchley]

I'm going with a 6 space bay on each side in the leg cover panels, normally holding a 2 spc SRM pallet and a 4 spc gun pod, either the GV17 or the BP14

Sounds good.

I'm looking at the compendium, your site, MrMarch's site, SteelFalcon, various scenes from the anime and line art and trying to build a composite I can be happy with.

With my RPG stats, I attempted to keep them balanced with the other stats (which is where the missile payload numbers come from). The VF-22 stats are especially in need of an update, but in their present state, they are not game breaking in comparison to the other stats (though as 1 GM to another, limiting the load-out (ie no hard-point munitions) improves their balance).

Anyhow, for an idea of what direction I was planning to take the stats (and some ideas for the non-game stat functions of the VF-22), take a look at my VF-1 stats: http://sketchleystats.webatu.com/Statistics/VF-1/VF-1.php

Specifically the Defensive Systems, Wing Hardpoint optional munitions, Avonics, and Other Systems.

Keep in mind: Green is official, Blue is extended (semi-offical), and black is best guess.

Edited August 11, 2013 by sketchley

[Andras]

For wing hardpoints, I've settled on each HP being worth ~3 spaces of ordnance.

Sometimes I'll have 8 spaces with 1 HP for a 2 spc slot, ie VF171 with a triple rack(3spc), a rocket pod(3spc) and a single HM MRM(2spc) on each wing.

My VF-1 has 6 spaces on each wing. I needed to be able to have combinations of triple AAM-1s, 15 shot UUM7s, twin LRM/RMS-1, and single LRM/RMS (for a total of 3 per wing).

Some of the bigger missiles are 4 spaces, but nukes/reaction missiles are ridiculously expensive in CP in Mekton, especially in x10 scale.

I gave the VF-1 FAST boosters 20 missiles each. In the animation when Hikaru fires the missiles he fires at least 13 missile per side, and 12 more from each arm pod in 6 pairs each. When Max and Miria fire their booster missiles they each fire 4 volleys of 8 missiles. I rounded each one up to 20.

I'm handwaving most of the avionics right now. The mecha get main sensors in the head and LR radar in the nosecone with enough range to fire their normal missiles (usually 200km). Mecha that normally carry LRMs get longer ranged sensors (500km). LR radar can't be used in B mode since the nose cone is usually tucked away, but most mecha can't have missiles that can out range their basic sensors when in B mode anyway.

Basic Stealth gets to ignore enemy LR radar so they have a sweet spot between their own LR radar range and the enemy's basic sensor range where they can't be attacked.

I'm not certain how I want to handle active stealth. In theory I could make it a x.15 multiplier that completely screws main sensors and forces the enemy to rely on visual targeting for a -2 or -4 penalty, but IMO that is too powerful (but book legal; Active Cloak minus basic cloak since it doesn't effect visual)

ECM can be built as a penalty to enemy missile attacks, but it requires an action to activate. I'm thinking of using the Internal Automation rule to make the jamming automatic but that will increase the cost of the entire mecha by 20%. I may apply the IA multiplier to just the ECM system since its only for a single piece of equipment. -3 penalty ECM, 0 spaces, 6cp. the IA system to activate it takes 1 space and has a .2 multiplier so the whole thing would cost 7.2cp. That's too little for the benefit.

OTOH, I can just let the -4 penalty for firing beyond combat range stand in as blanket ECM and not worry about it.