Armor Plate or Heatshield?

[sreichma]

Got into a debate with a friend of mine concerning this. I know its called a heat shield most of the time because It was used as one once in Fighter mode when Hikaru re-entered the atmosphere after the major battle. The thing is though, I don't think that is it's primary purpose . The pilot is still in the cockpit in Battroid mode but rotated back to face forward and the armor plate slides down to protect him as he would only have the canopy for protection without it. My friend kept insisting that the pilot was in the head, but that was a Robotech thing from the books. I know when Hikaru, Ben, and Max fell into the enemy ship, the enemy pinned the 1J against the wall and pulled the chest open and saw Hikaru inside the cockpit in the chest area - not in the head. Same thing in DYRL when Roy dies. Am I correct on this? It's an armor plate first and a heatshield second and the pilot is in the cockpit/torso area in Battroid mode?

[EXO]

The pilot thing was in Robotech books? I thought that was just an agentGHQ delusion... lol. Yes... the pilots stays in the cockpit. The seat just rotates. There's no room for the pilot in the heads at all.

Remember in the second episode went Hikaru rises out of the VF-1D after the head folds over? And there was even the second seat on top of him that rose up first.

[Rabidweezil]

You know, it's funny I thought the same thing about the heatshield name. It's primary function does seem to be more of a canopy cover or protector than a heatshield.

"Look out, it's a campfire, better use my HEATSHIELD!"

Since Hikaru did refer to it as that, I think it boils down to more of a label then a function name.

And yeah, it was in the Robotech books that the pilot moved up into the head. Apparently the author did absolutely no research before writing that.

[Loop]

Wow, I never knew Robotech had showed that, I guess now "Mr Head Pilot" looks a little less delusional and more like a delusional Robotech fan jk guys..

Edited July 22, 2013 by Loop

[VF5SS]

If you're curious, a lot of official sources (like Macross Chronicle) call that part of the VF-1 the "canopy cover."

[Mr March]

If the canopy cover is supposed to be a heatshield, where is the shield to cover the rest of the craft from heat I wonder?

I suppose the canopy cover could be used to shield the cockpit from heat (albiet the primary purpose would certainly be armor). But since all other VFs (and many other "windowed" vehicles) are shown re-entering the atmosphere without such a shield, I'd conclude it's something else. Perhaps it was to shield the brightness of re-entry, perhaps Hikaru felt more comfortable with the canopy cover in place, maybe it standard operating procedure, etc.

[Mommar]

The pilot thing was in Robotech books? I thought that was just an agentGHQ delusion... lol. Yes... the pilots stays in the cockpit. The seat just rotates. There's no room for the pilot in the heads at all.

Remember in the second episode went Hikaru rises out of the VF-1D after the head folds over? And there was even the second seat on top of him that rose up first.

Hmm, I don't remember the pilot moving into the head in the Robotech Books. Don't make me have to go back and read them to verify.

[VFAce]

Its been awhile since I read the Robotech books but I think the part about the pilot going up into the head was during the battle that interrupted Minmei's birthday party.

[Shaorin]

definitely an antiballistic panel for canopy/cockpit protection in BATTROID only, IMHO.

see, there's just no real way that panel can slide out in FIGHTER/GERWALK, there just isn't the room to spare

unless halfway-shifted to BATTROID, where it is supposed to come sliding out into place anyway.

perhaps some sort of fancy footwork on "the real thing" could enable the front half of the fuselage to raise up just enough

for the panel to come out over the canopy in FIGHTER/GERWALK, but i really just don't see how.

the shield itself is the wrong shape, and much to short overall to be covering the whole of the canopy

without the frontal fuselage half/chest panel coming on down over the top half of it for BATTROID.

study your 1/60v.IIs, those of you that own them, cause they are just about the most accurate scale demonstrator around

in regards to what the VF-1 transformation pattern can and cannot be expected to be made to achieve in the physical three-dimensional world...

Edited July 22, 2013 by Shaorin

[valhary]

an scheme

[azrael]

Oh Row-bow-tech. Causing Macross headaches since 1985.

[Shaorin]

ROW-BUH-TECHNOLOGY? the magic Medicinal "seeds" that expands our minds, as well as our tech...

[TehPW]

an scheme

this or watching the first transformation of the Vf-0S on the first episode of Macross Zero. TU btw. i didnt know that the undercarrige containing the landing gear had to move as well...?

[hulagu]

It's an unofficial lineart from VF-1 Master Files, providing a plausible explanation how the cockpit group can rotate to face forward in the confines of the nose block in battroid mode without anime magic.

[xrentonx]

I've studied my 1/60 and, while nice, you can do A LOT in 1/1 scale...jus' sayin'

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Valkyries usually die in like 1-2 hits anyway. They don't look like they are meant to absorb that much damage. Especially considering the sizee of powered armor vs VF-1.

Avoiding being hit by getting out of the way seems to be how they protect themselves more. (or hiding behind cover in bot mode and shooting the enemy before they have a chance to draw their weapon)

Even in macross plus you saw that in the opening scene where the rogue zentradi are attacking. Having too much armour may even be worse as it may slow you down too much or take you too long to move into position in time. In the anime you always see heroes dodge-rolling and moving sideways while shooting at the same time which differentiates them from the destroid. (more agility and speed, more points of articulation to do finer movements at close range, and probably a quicker turn rate ect)

Edited August 7, 2013 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[VF-15 Banshee]

I guess that space metal and SWAG armor is "just strong enough," eh?

[xrentonx]

Valks are as strong as the plot deems them to be. They're crashing through buildings unscathed after all...

[Mr March]

The military mecha in Macross are likely subject to the same realities of actual combat: if you build a stronger armor, your enemy will simply build a better gun.

The "Space Metal" and "SWAG Energy Conversion Armor" of the Valkyries are very advanced defensive technologies that no doubt foil most modern weaponry, but the mecha of Macross are using far more advanced weapons than those of today. Indeed, the discussion of muzzle velocity in the newbie thread found some Valkyrie gun pods firing at velocities as fast as railguns. There's also what material these bullets are made of and the warhead yeilds of missles in Macross. So even a defensive technology as powerful as SWAG armor is not going to totally foil these powerful weapons. If they did, the guns would just get better

[coronadlux]

There is that episode in the macross saga where Hikaru is going to rescue Misa after alaska base was destroyed. He does shield himself during re-entry doesn't he?

[Knight26]

That is the point of the thread coron. What is the unit that covers the canopy, a heat shield or armor? The only time it is ever mentioned in the animation is when Hikaru reenters to rescue Misa, and says to deploy the heat shield, the animation then shows the chest armor extend. So people started calling it the heat shield. That really doesn't make a lot of sense though, as it is clearly armor to protect the canopy while in battroid mode. It's just one of those examples of an animation or production mistake confusing fans for years on end.

[xrentonx]

It can't be both?

[Mr March]

It's actually a meat shield!

But seriously, as I said above it could be a heatshield simply by virtue of being part of the energy conversion armor, which defends against laser, beam and particle weapons every bit as much as it defends against kinetic weapons like guns and missiles.

[Knight26]

Right, it could be dual purpose, but it's primary role is as a form of armor.

[Bariaburu Faita]

I would guess that Kawamori would say:

In the parallel world of the original SDFM TV series, its a heat shield.

In the parallel world of the DYRL movie, its armor plating.

In the parallel world of the Macross the first Manga, its whatever Mikimoto decides fits his artistic vision of a Valkyrie.

[JohnMc]

Hmm, I don't remember the pilot moving into the head in the Robotech Books. Don't make me have to go back and read them to verify.

I had those comics [particularly the Comico Comics adaptions based on the TV series] they always did the "Pilot gets moved to a cockpit in the chest compartment" like in the Tv series and DYRL.

[sreichma]

That is the point of the thread coron. What is the unit that covers the canopy, a heat shield or armor? The only time it is ever mentioned in the animation is when Hikaru reenters to rescue Misa, and says to deploy the heat shield, the animation then shows the chest armor extend. So people started calling it the heat shield. That really doesn't make a lot of sense though, as it is clearly armor to protect the canopy while in battroid mode. It's just one of those examples of an animation or production mistake confusing fans for years on end.

you hit the nail on the head with what I'm trying to ask and determine. I think you are right, it is an armor plate to protect the pilot from center mass shots during battroid combat, but was called a heat shield and used as one for a secondary purpose when Hikaru entered earth atmosphere.

[grigolosi]

This comes directly from the Macross Mecha Manual.....

Design Features: 3-mode variable transformation; variable geometry wing; vertical take-off and landing; control-configurable vehicle; single-axis thrust vectoring; three "magic hand" manipulators for maintenance use; retractable canopy shield for Battroid mode and atmospheric reentry; option of GBP-1S system, atmospheric-escape booster, or FAST Pack system.

It is used for both since the frame section aft of the cockpit is not long enough to cover the canopy completely in Battroid. As you can see in the picture below.

Edited July 24, 2015 by grigolosi