Arcadia: 1/60 VF 1S Roy Focker Special Movie Ver

[jenius]

agree and will be cheaper w/ retail pre order discounts

But that's misleading also. If they were priced reasonably you'd still get the x% discount off retail.

[Lolicon]

But that's misleading also. If they were priced reasonably you'd still get the x% discount off retail.

What is a "reasonable" price? Yamato's old discount pricing? That worked out real well for them.

I think some people have been spoiled by ridiculously cheap goods for so long and now complain because their toys cost more than they used to. This isn't 2008 anymore.

I for one am all for higher wages for my fellow Chinese who make it possible for us over here to have such luxury items. Those guys aren't exactly driving Bentleys on their salaries, you know.

Who here seriously thinks the upcoming DX VF-31 will be less than, say, 18000 yen? I'm guessing at least 20k.

Ultimately, an item is really only worth what you're willing to pay for it. If the price is too high to you, don't buy it. These are luxury items. No one needs them and you are definitely not entitled to getting them cheaper.

[jenius]

We're talking about a 70% price hike from 2008. In comparison, a VF-19 advance, which had like no repaint variants, tons of extras, and is far more complicated cost 23k.

[no3Ljm]

It's hard to compare the price to VF-19 Advance since that one is made by Bandai, in which we all know a bigger company than Arcadia. Their production is pretty much different to what Arcadia uses.

[mickyg]

Fair point, Noel. But we're talking about perceived value here. For a lot of folks, they're going to look at the cost, vs. what you get in the box and won't think for a second about who it is that's making it. X toy for xx price is the end of the mental exercise. And comparing the VF-19Advance to a fast packed VF-1 is going to leave a lot of people scratching their heads.

IF Bandai do a DX VF-1, based on the pricing of their other DX toys, it's going to be very tough for Arcadia to compete with. That's the bigger picture I'm seeing with this release. Regardless of whether or not I think the price of this new bundle is outrageous.

Incidentally, I do not. But I'm from the camp that thinks about the manufacturer and their production methods and previous pricing, etc... Do I think Arcadia quality is much better than Bandai? In other words, is the perceived value significantly higher for Arcadia and thus, worth paying extra for? Nope. But I do understand why it's this way.

[no3Ljm]

Actually I do understand people's frustration on this matter. I too get frustrated sometimes. Price vs Quality vs Quantity and stuff like that. But the thing right now is that both licenses or both variants holds by different companies. If people wants 1/60 scaled of VF-1's then the only choice they have is Arcadia right now. If people just collects the recent show or something closer to 1/60 then that's Bandai DX line. But there's no VF-1 yet from that line. And there's the HM-R line too. But that's a different scale for that matter.

But yeah, I'm also looking forward to Bandai's DX VF-1. I'm curious on their take of this classic valk.

Edited April 18, 2016 by no3ljm

[technoblue]

I agree with lolicon, I think the DX Valkyries are starting to creep closer to 20k JPY. It will be interesting to see how the prices fair once the Delta toys arrive with official announcements and prices later in the year. If anything, I think Bandai and Arcadia have kept a sort of parity when it comes to pricing these toys, with Arcadia being ever so slightly priced higher as economics forced each companies to bump the MSRP for given releases. The thing about the VF-1 is that it is an older Yamato design, and Arcadia hasn't done anything to it like they have done with the YF-19 and the VF-0 releases. I think that may work against it. But if Arcadia decides to do something to improve the VF-1 in some way, that might also cause other people to complain.

And clearly, no one would want broken Battroid legs on a new Arcadia VF-1 at any scale.

But quality is what is really important to me: if the QC is solid, then I'll almost always excuse a higher price. If QC is faulty, then any price is bad.

Edited April 19, 2016 by technoblue

[Kanedas Bike]

Super parts used to be a 3k premium.

Yeah, and Yamato v2 1/60 VF-1 Valkyries used to be "only" 9800 JPY (http://www.hlj.com/product/YMT00098/Sci).

I see all sides of the debate and others have posted very good point/counter-points on the issue, even in comparing Bandai vs. Arcadia but I don't see the sense in comparing Yamato pricing from almost 7 + years ago to Arcadia pricing now. When taking all known factors into consideration it's an exercise in frustration and futility.

In my day gas used to be .79 a gallon, and I could get a bag of chips for .25, but hey...

-b.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

^Big Macs used to be a Quarter

Edited April 19, 2016 by davidwhangchoi

[jenius]

Don't get me wrong, I love the V2 toy and think, in hindsight, it was an amazing deal. At 21.8K it is definitely NOT an amazing deal any more. As far as inflation is concerned, if a valk cost $100 in 2008, it should cost $110 today (ignoring all other variables besides inflation). This is a fun tool.

[Roy Focker]

Its still too high when you consider it is an just the 20th re-re-re-re-release of an old toy. Usually over time the price of objects go down as they become more wide spread. Chances are 95% of people who would buy a VF-1S Me-type 1/60 already have one.

[Lolicon]

Back in my day, 100 yen could buy you a steak and kidney pie, a cup of coffee, a slice of cheesecake and a newsreel, with enough change left over to ride the trolley from Battery Park to the polo grounds.

[technoblue]

That inflation calculator is nice, but the $100 example is a bit of a reach.

2008 was a roller coaster year for dollar to yen conversions. At the beginning of the year, a 12800 JPY gift set like Yamato's Roy 1S cost about $117. At the end of the year, that same retail set would cost US customers $138. That would change the $100 example somewhat, wouldn't it?

After inflation, the actual 2008 adjusted cost of a 1S is between $129 and $153 US. This results in a $57 to $81 difference given the current conversion rate. It's disingenuous to ignore all variables, especially since Arcadia is about making itself profitable. And maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but it makes sense to me that some of the extra costs are being passed on to the consumer, especially since Arcadia is not releasing its Valkyries as frequently as Yamato once did.

Edited April 19, 2016 by technoblue

[jenius]

Not disingenuos, necessary given the unknowns. We know that Arcadia bought a very used mold off Yamato. We can presume there was a steep discount over the cost of a new mold given. We don't know if Arcadia had to spend to renew their SDF Macross license. We also don't know what kind of volume discounts Yamato may have gotten vs. Arcadia. There's plenty to not know. At the end of the day, the EXACT SAME TOY costs 70% more in the SAME currency. Sure, using US inflation isn't the most appropriate measure. We should be using Japanese inflation. The problem there is that Japan is often fighting DEFLATION so when we talk inflation over that 7 year span we're probably talking about less than the US measure.

Edited April 19, 2016 by jenius

[seti88]

I dont mind arcadia pricing their toys high, as they obviously see the demand there.

But for goodness sake, Add Tampo, Effect parts, Stands, or make your product innovative (more opening hatches? magnetised gunpods/fueltanks? LED's?)

Something that would differentiate the product other than scale...

Keep your customers happy!

Quality used to be a good reason for price, but when your compeitors catch up on the quality front as well, you gotta differentiate by adding something else.

Ok rant over.

[Lolicon]

Not disingenuos, necessary given the unknowns. We know that Arcadia bought a very used mold off Yamato. We can presume there was a steep discount over the cost of a new mold given. We don't know if Arcadia had to spend to renew their SDF Macross license. We also don't know what kind of volume discounts Yamato may have gotten vs. Arcadia. There's plenty to not know. At the end of the day, the EXACT SAME TOY costs 70% more in the SAME currency. Sure, using US inflation isn't the most appropriate measure. We should be using Japanese inflation. The problem there is that Japan is often fighting DEFLATION so when we talk inflation over that 7 year span we're probably talking about less than the US measure.

Still being disingenuous as you're assuming these toys are manufactured and assembled in Japan. Protoypes and product samples aside, I am fairly certain the only time these toys see Japanese soil during the production process is on their final trip to distributors and retailers to be sold.

Toys are getting more expensive across the board. An anime figure that would cost me around 6000 yen in 2008 costs around 10k today.

But hey, if you want to hold on to your dreams of a magical time where toys are super cheap and everything is made in Japan and simple monetary inflation is the only factor in pricing, go right ahead.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Lolicon

[wmkjr]

Maybe it's the labor/ material costs in China or wherever they're building and the exchange rates that's a factor the price increase? Like Jenius said too many unknowns.

[jenius]

There's nothing misleading at all about saying the same toy costs 70% more in the same currency. If you're comfortable with that because of other toy releases and some speculation and assumptions, that's fine, it just seems high to me. My speculation and assumption is that Arcadia is doing a small run and has calculated the price point they need to sell a much smaller number of toys. By way of supply and demand, the price, the price point they picked is pretty high. My further speculation is that Arcadia is a super conservative company based on what happened to Yamato and will continue to produce tiny runs priced at the high end of the curve. If you think 21,800Yen is totally reasonable then that just puts you on the sweet part of their curve and there's nothing wrong with that.

[Scyla]

Speculation time: If there was a withdraw of all the Macross licenses for Macross Delta by Big West the license fees might be higher than in beginning of the 2000s due to the ongoing success of the Macross franchise. If there was more than one company bidding for the DYRL license fees also go up. Thus any business has to calculate those spendings into the end price of a given product.

More speculation: Due to the boom in China manufacturing costs have gone up steeper than the average inflation rate. If you are unable to shift your manufacturing to a cheaper place (like Vietnam for Transformers) you can't keep the prices at the same level than before.

The reason for the pricing are surely more complex than the posts in this thread. However there is the nagging feeling that Arcadia has set a high price policy with most of their releases and are now cashing in on a several year old (outdated?) mold.

[sh9000]

Pink and expensive.

[Roy Focker]

It is like they're charging double extra for the same Malibu Stacy doll but not including her new hat.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

when do pre-orders start? i'm ready

[Chronocidal]

The fact that a lot of us didn't even pay that base retail price back in the Yamato days doesn't help matters any. The shoulder issues and rampant mold milking meant that a lot of people were able to get a VF-1 and fast packs for probably something around $80 before shipping ($50 valks, $30 packs, roughly).

If this new bundle includes both the stand and the fast packs, that price really doesn't feel that high, but even without the stand, Bandai never includes any extras with their base releases, so this is already more material than 99% of Bandai's releases (the only nearly comparable set is the CF-171EX super pack bundle from a while ago).

Does that make me want to buy it? Not really, but only because I already have a ton of DYRL VF-1s with fast packs. If I was just finding out about these toys, I'd probably find the price pretty reasonable compared to all the competing Bandai products.

[Mommar]

I'd prefer a stand-alone release of the Fast Packs. Or the VT-1.

I'm not sure what people are remembering exactly. Any VF-1 I bought with Fast Packs were between $140 and $160. Max and Milia's 1J's were $150 a piece for me back in 2009, the Elint Seeker was $160 as well. Who was getting a VF-1 with Fast Packs for $80? Even at the steep discounts for the Max and Kaki 1A's near the end you were only paying $100 or $110 but, that was after MASSIVE price cuts due to shelf warming.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Mommar

[technoblue]

I'd prefer a stand-alone release of the Fast Packs. Or the VT-1.

I'm not sure what people are remembering exactly. Any VF-1 I bought with Fast Packs were between $140 and $160. Max and Milia's 1J's were $150 a piece for me back in 2009, the Elint Seeker was $160 as well. Who was getting a VF-1 with Fast Packs for $80? Even at the steep discounts for the Max and Kaki 1A's near the end you were only paying $100 or $110 but, that was after MASSIVE price cuts due to shelf warming.

It is confusing. There are moments when it seems that some members need to feed a strong negative bias in order to stop their collecting habits for one toy and move on to the next, rather than just saying "I'm done" and leaving it at that. As soon as Arcadia decided on premium prices, everyone cried foul and then these fantasy scenarios about bargain basement deals started to get told on the forum. But if I am to be fair, I think we've all been Yamato'ed by a level of bias in this debate to one extent or another.

I'm just glad that I don't have to pay eBay prices for a 1/60-scale VF-1. Having options is a good thing.

[Valkyrie addict]

The core problem is that Arcadia is repeating the same mistake it already did in its Yamato days, the market is already saturated with the VF-1, everyone was expecting/hoping to get the FP released on its own to go along with their Arcadia pinkish VF-1S instead of a bundle or to complete part of their collection. Most don't really need another VF-1, some do but its the minority and it will most like reflect on their sales this time.

If they would've released it alone Id be getting two FP go with my Roy and Hikaru 1S instead of having to get another Roy 1S.

[Ignacio Ocamica]

Well I preordered all the yamatos I bought. So full price with no discount for me!!! And like Mommar said the lowest price cuts were $110 for the standalone VF-1A's.

[Kanedas Bike]

when do pre-orders start? i'm ready

For real.

And what's the premium for no pre-order madness? Because a good 7 to 8 hours of sleep or even a week or more of not having to worry about getting priced out is worth it in my book.

-b.

[Vifam7]

Well I preordered all the yamatos I bought. So full price with no discount for me!!! And like Mommar said the lowest price cuts were $110 for the standalone VF-1A's.

I got my Hikari 1A for $75 shipped at HLJ. Back in 2009 IIRC. What a steal that was.

If Arcadia were to just tampo print this release like Bandai does, I think there'd be more enthusiasm and less moaning about the price.

[Roy Focker]

I paid MSRP for my Yamatos. I do recall some of the VF-1 going on sale later on. By that point the clearance VF-1 were ones I already picked up at full price or ones I didn't find that interesting.

Arcadia's mistake is that they are focusing on the Heroes. It normally makes sense to focus on the most popular characters but this is a re-re-re-released. Just about everyone already has this toy. If you want to charge a premium price you have to offer a premium.

[Sildani]

I'm in. Have no FAST packs, want them, and here they are. Because Arcadia said they couldn't get a license to release them by themselves, this may well be the last opportunity, especially if all the rumormongers and naysayers are correct and Arcadia turns out to be not long for this world. Then, this package will seem ridiculously cheap.

I don't doubt that Bandai's working on a 1/60 VF-1, but that's going to be based on the CG VF on Delta... which has some different proportions from what I'm used to.

[505thAirborne]

when do pre-orders start? i'm ready

Same here!!

[Universe1010]

Likely we will see a M&M release hopefully. I dont know if I want the vf 1 again. If anyone is will to sell their parts seperatly Ill buy it off them.

[Chronocidal]

Oh, the $50 VF-1s might have been a rarity, but I recall a few shelf warmers getting around that level late in the game. Might have been things like the TV Kakizaki and CF. I might actually be remembering the unassembled kits though, which were always cheaper.

The general sale price was probably closer to the $80 mark like was mentioned.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Chronocidal

[mickyg]

I'm in. Have no FAST packs, want them, and here they are. Because Arcadia said they couldn't get a license to release them by themselves, this may well be the last opportunity, especially if all the rumormongers and naysayers are correct and Arcadia turns out to be not long for this world. Then, this package will seem ridiculously cheap.

I don't doubt that Bandai's working on a 1/60 VF-1, but that's going to be based on the CG VF on Delta... which has some different proportions from what I'm used to.

Wait, did I miss this somewhere?