Arcadia YF-19 coming in 2014

[Cent]

It also has 3 hard points per wing, a ton of munitions options, concealed missiles in the legs, fast packs and a cool new Isamu mould among other things.

Whoa. Missiles in the legs? You mean like these? http://i.imgur.com/JjGdhT4.jpg

I do like the tons of munitions, but I kind of liked the clean smooth underwing... If they'd allow swappable wings, it'd be perfect.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Cent

[mechaninac]

Yep! Those are the missiles; the new YF-19 will have leg missile bays, but I doubt they will operate with the conformal leg packs attached.

[Falcon18]

If I'm not wrong they don't. You dont see an opening panel on the fast pack. It's just a whole solid meaning you can't open it up which is a shame really. It would have been nice to have pack+opening leg missile bay.

[Reïvaj]

Well, there's actually a great deal of anime magic in that snapshot, where the wings ended up?

[Valkyrie addict]

i always thought the missiles were part of the FP and not the leg bay from that scene.

[Cent]

I always thought the leg panel pushed out the fast pack panel too, but the missile was stored inside the leg.

One thing I didn't like so much about the old YF-19 was the vertical stabilizers on the top and bottom were kind of smallish to accomodate battroid mode. Are they confirmed to be larger now, or the same?

Edited December 12, 2013 by Cent

[Mommar]

Well, there's actually a great deal of anime magic in that snapshot

That's pretty much the definition of the 19...

[skullmilitia]

Lol, does the leg attachments actually ever do anything in M+?

I know what they are meant to be, but it's anime magic that something that thin

and small does anything at all to improve performance.

[Benbot]

Extra fuel and ammunition, I think.

[Reïvaj]

According to Macross Mecha Manual:

Bombs & Missiles:

- 2 x Stonewell/Roice B-7 standard internal pallets (mounted ventral side fuselage in Fighter mode, lower legs in GERWALK/Battroid modes) featuring air-to-air/air-to-ground general-purpose micro-missile pallets, Bifors BMM-24 all-regime high-maneuverability micro-missile cluster, OR 2 x [4 x] B-19A YF-19-exclusive internal weapons pallets.

Optional Armament:

- 2 + 2 x all-environment FAST Pack conformal propellant tanks and weapon packs with micro-missiles, conformal-type to avoid adversely impacting stealth performance (each main body hardpoint for FAST packs can hold 4,500 kg).

[UN Spacy]

It'd be nice if Arcadia included a first run bonus.

A Sharon Apple figure...the arm mounted weapons system...Isamu's motorcycle.

Just saying is all.

[mechaninac]

I'm pretty confident they would also act as a reactive armor panels protecting the Thermonuclear engines from side impacts from enemy fire... at least the first hit.

[Reïvaj]

I think I saw something of the sort in the OVA.

[Cent]

Was fuel even a problem after Macross Zero? I assume FAST packs are just purely munitions?

[Falcon18]

I think I saw something of the sort in the OVA.

Yes there was. One shot on the 19 and one on the 21.

[anime52k8]

Was fuel even a problem after Macross Zero? I assume FAST packs are just purely munitions?

Presumably the thermonuclear turbines work by sucking taking in a low temperature gas, super heating it with the nuclear reactor and expelling the expanding gas out the back for thrust. in an atmosphere it has an unlimited source of propellent gas in the form of ambient air, but in space it has to carry it's own gas supply (super-cooled liquid hydrogen IIRC).

[YF-29 Durandal]

So you bought a v1 and a v2 yf-19 1/60?

No, I changed my mind on the V1 and you can still get it from Mandarake. http://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/shop/en/item_s-1134382.html

[SuperSenpai]

Presumably the thermonuclear turbines work by sucking taking in a low temperature gas, super heating it with the nuclear reactor and expelling the expanding gas out the back for thrust. in an atmosphere it has an unlimited source of propellent gas in the form of ambient air, but in space it has to carry it's own gas supply (super-cooled liquid hydrogen IIRC).

In real life, FAST packs carry fuel for fighter planes so that they can go longer without refueling. They are still using their intakes to pull in air from the atmosphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drop_tank

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_fuel_tank

In Macross, they seem to provide additional ordnance, thrust, and perhaps fuel. However, in SDFM, the valks fly in space for the majority of the series without FPs. There's also at least one scene in both SDFM and DYRL where Hikaru's valk is seen jettisoning its FAST packs and flying off while still in space.

[Mommar]

In real life, FAST packs carry fuel for fighter planes so that they can go longer without refueling. They are still using their intakes to pull in air from the atmosphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drop_tank

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_fuel_tank

In Macross, they seem to provide additional ordnance, thrust, and perhaps fuel. However, in SDFM, the valks fly in space for the majority of the series without FPs. There's also at least one scene in both SDFM and DYRL where Hikaru's valk is seen jettisoning its FAST packs and flying off while still in space.

Yeah, we seem to be bumping up against some different ideas about what fast packs do. In The First it's explained that the Valks aren't as maneuverable in space as the battlepods and they justify the fast packs as a way to add additional vectoring/speed. That doesn't mean they actually need fuel, but then some of the statistics in the books comment on propellant don't they? I had always assumed it was limitless even in the VF-1 until I came across this board and heard about additional propellants (which I understand is a real world thing.)

[Reïvaj]

In real life, FAST packs carry fuel for fighter planes so that they can go longer without refueling. They are still using their intakes to pull in air from the atmosphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drop_tank

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_fuel_tank

In Macross, they seem to provide additional ordnance, thrust, and perhaps fuel. However, in SDFM, the valks fly in space for the majority of the series without FPs. There's also at least one scene in both SDFM and DYRL where Hikaru's valk is seen jettisoning its FAST packs and flying off while still in space.

That's because the FP have additional fuel, which doesn't mean the valk doesn't have any.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Reïvaj

[SuperSenpai]

I'm not an expert on these things, but the gas propellant is different from the fuel used by jet engines. My understanding of jet engines is that they work by taking in air from the environment, and mixing the air and fuel to produce a combustion reaction. The superheated gases are then ejected from the rear of the plane to produce thrust. So you need both air and fuel to create the reaction that provides thrust. Anime's post above suggested that the reason why FPs are necessary in space is because they provide the air/gas supply that would ordinarily be provided from the intakes in an atmosphere. My argument was that we see numerous instances of valks flying in space without FPs. If we assume that their spaceflight is enabled by jet propulsion in the same way as in the atmosphere, they must already have a supply of air/gas even without FPs. Obviously, the valks already have their own supply of fuel since they couldn't even fly in their atmosphere without it.

So my point was that even if the FPs provide additional air/gas, it can't be the only supply since we see valks flying in space all the time without FPs.

Of course, this assuming that the engines are still functioning according to standard jet propulsion principles. This is fictional alien technology we're talking about, so who knows?

Edited December 12, 2013 by SuperSenpai

[Scyla]

Yep! Those are the missiles; the new YF-19 will have leg missile bays, but I doubt they will operate with the conformal leg packs attached.

There seem to be to pivot points on the armature that holds the outer door of the leg bay. Maybe the Super Parts are attached to that door alone. With the double jointed armature they could fold under the wing allowing the missile to be fired. This is possible because the missile is attached to the outer door and not on the inside of the leg bay. It won't look exactly like in the anime but the leg packs could stay attached depending on the mechanism at work.

If I remember correctly the leg packs on the V2 stayed attached via a magnet. If the leg bay armature is made out of metal that could be a strong anchor for the magnet in the fast packs. Combined with a few weaker magnets it could be a strong enough connection to keep the panels attached in the correct position. Of course that way you would push the leg panel out of position every time you try to open the leg bay.

[Reïvaj]

I'm not an expert on these things, but the gas propellant is different from the fuel used by jet engines. My understanding of jet engines is that they work by taking in air from the environment, and mixing the air and fuel to produce a combustion reaction. The superheated gases are then ejected from the rear of the plane to produce thrust. So you need both air and fuel to create the reaction that provides thrust. Anime's post above suggested that the reason why FPs are necessary in space is because they provide the air/gas supply that would ordinarily be provided from the intakes in an atmosphere. My argument was that we see numerous instances of valks flying in space without FPs. If we assume that their spaceflight is enabled by jet propulsion in the same way as in the atmosphere, they must already have a supply of air/gas even without FPs. Obviously, the valks already have their own supply of fuel since they couldn't even fly in their atmosphere without it.

So my point was that even if the FPs provide additional air/gas, it can't be the only supply since we see valks flying in space all the time without FPs.

Of course, this assuming that the engines are still functioning according to standard jet propulsion principles. This is fictional alien technology we're talking about, so who knows?

All valks since VF-1 used thermonuclear engines that operate as described by Anime52k8 and not jet engines functioning according to standard jet propulsion principles. So the valks that benefit from OverTechnology carry their own gas supply to replace atmospheric air when operating in space and that's what you've seen in those numerous instances you mentioned. The FPs aren't completely necessary in space, their interest lies in that the extra gas charge allows greater autonomy. YF-19's FPs also provide extra protection, manoeuvrability and armament, even in an atmosphere..

Edited December 12, 2013 by Reïvaj

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

the 19's i'm getting won't need fuel ever. they'll be flown around by a bol-dolza class sized zentran running around his quarters swooshing it over couches and coffee tables.

[Mommar]

My Yf-19 will be combating the dreaded "house cat."

[Raptor One]

aka the Protodevlin that got away

[Vifam7]

All valks since VF-1 used thermonuclear engines that operate as described by Anime52k8 and not jet engines functioning according to standard jet propulsion principles. So the valks that benefit from OverTechnology carry their own gas supply to replace atmospheric air when operating in space and that's what you've seen in those numerous instances you mentioned. The FPs aren't completely necessary in space, their interest lies in that the extra gas charge allows greater autonomy. YF-19's FPs also provide extra protection, manoeuvrability and armament, even in an atmosphere..

The term "FAST pack" is probably adding to the confusion as it's technically not the correct term to be used.

[Kanedas Bike]

the 19's i'm getting won't need fuel ever. they'll be flown around by a bol-dolza class sized zentran running around his quarters swooshing it over couches and coffee tables.

-b.

[Reïvaj]

I used it because that's the term used in the description from MMM I posted before (see http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=39470&p=1090628) . Although I think it's an appropriate term when they include boosters (VF-1/11/17/25), in this case I think SP is better.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Reïvaj

[Scream Man]

Well we know in space the Valks and beyond should close the intake covers on the engines. I believe except for animation mistakes they do. I assume this is to protect the blade turbines from dust and micrometeors in space.

The Fp's cover the intakes because they arent being used in space, and it gives the plane a new point of armor to protect a vulnerable area. i have always assumed that most VF series fighters cannot fly in atmosphgere with their packs on, the 19 and 21 being rare exceptions.

As to what the packs contain; alot of them have nozzles for extra maneuvering in space, so I assume they have propellant for those, provide armor, and past the 11 series have micro missile pods for extra offensive capabilities.

[Scream Man]

Actually, now i think about it, so can the 17, the 27, the 0..... Lots use Fp's in Atmosphere.

[Valkyrie addict]

In Macross 7 the VF-11/17/19 all used special "atmospheric fast packs"

But I guess the main reason FP like in the VF-1, VF-11 and specially the ridiculous packs on the VF-25 would have to be ditch in an atmosphere cause they would cause severe drag and affect maneuverability.

[Falcon18]

But I guess the main reason FP like in the VF-1, VF-11 and specially the ridiculous packs on the VF-25 would have to be ditch in an atmosphere cause they would cause severe drag and affect maneuverability.

Agreed. Plus, it wouldn't be aerodynamic enough for the plane to have proper lift since they're so huge.

The packs on the 19,29 are conformal to the aircraft body so it's more suitable for atmospheric use.

[Scyla]

In the first episode of Macross Frontier the pilot of the VF-25F casts off (hey it has a cast off feature) the Super Parts when the plane enters the colonization ship (also seen in the Galia IV episode) . Only Ozma seems daring enough to enter the atmosphere with the Armor Parts attached

Edited December 13, 2013 by Scyla

[barurutor]

In the first episode of Macross Frontier the pilot of the VF-25F casts off (hey it has a cast off feature) the Super Parts when the plane enters the colonization ship (also seen in the Galia IV episode) . Only Ozma seems daring enough to enter the atmosphere with the Armor Parts attached

Based on the Macross Mecha Manual the Armor Parts are designed to work in atmosphere while the Super Parts aren't.