Robotech - Love Live Alive + Shadow Chronicles 2-movie set

[EXO]

That's an incredible leap of logic you made to support your argument. I guess if you use the word "technically" you can just spew any loose connection to make a point. Technically, "Birth of a nation" gave way for Kurosawa's samurai films for the western audience. Yes! I see how it works. But let's go back to the claim here. Robotech, the show that introduced anime to the western audience. I didn't realize this claim was made because Robotech Art 1 explained that it was derived from japanese shows. This is the first time I've heard that that was the sole reason. I guess that does negate the fact that Battle Of The Planets was aired in 1978, StarBlazers in 1980, Voltron in 1984 and Tranzor Z was aired in 1985, the same year as Robotech. If only those other shows came out with a publication that connected it to it's origin.

1983 Star Blazers comic book

Robotech was my favorite out of the whole bunch though... not gonna deny that.

[Perrych]

That's an incredible leap of logic you made to support your argument. I guess if you use the word "technically" you can just spew any loose connection to make a point. Technically, "Birth of a nation" gave way for Kurosawa's samurai films for the western audience. Yes! I see how it works. But let's go back to the claim here. Robotech, the show that introduced anime to the western audience. I didn't realize this claim was made because Robotech Art 1 explained that it was derived from japanese shows. This is the first time I've heard that that was the sole reason. I guess that does negate the fact that Battle Of The Planets was aired in 1978, StarBlazers in 1980, Voltron in 1984 and Tranzor Z was aired in 1985, the same year as Robotech. If only those other shows came out with a publication that connected it to it's origin.

893001.jpg

1983 Star Blazers comic book

Robotech was my favorite out of the whole bunch though... not gonna deny that.

You misquoted me. I said introduced the term "anime" to many westerners. It also explained the origins from Japanese animation. Not many kids knew back in the late 70s or 80s that the cartoons they might be watching were dubbed into English and heavily edited. I'm not familiar with that comic but I wonder if it explained the roots in Yamato.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Perrych

[terry the lone wolf]

http://collectiondx.com/toy_review/1985/binoculars

Guys I think you can use these to help you find Rick Hunter.

I love the 80's use a toy under the banner of one toy line then if you lose the license then repackaged for an unrelated toy line..

[terry the lone wolf]

Not every fan of Voltron were comic book fans. I had plenty of friends who watched Voltron or even Robotech on a daily basis never even stepped into a comic book store. It seems if you visted your local speciality shop you'd be able to find out the Japanese origins of your favorite cartoons IE models, toys, books, etc that might've had the original Asian packaging. My store was Geppi's Comic World; they had videos and all sorts of anime related merchandise..

I also have Vol. 3 of the Starblazers TV comic but I didn't know they existed until !992 years after Starblazers was cancelled. I never seen an episode because it aired in Washington DC and I lived in Baltimore..

[EXO]

You misquoted me. I said introduced the term "anime" to many westerners. It also explained the origins from Japanese animation. Not many kids knew back in the late 70s or 80s that the cartoons they might be watching were dubbed into English and heavily edited. I'm not familiar with that comic but I wonder if it explained the roots in Yamato.

I didn't misquote you, you're changing the discussion from how Robotech was the groundbreaking show that introduced anime to the US to you're own little field of argument.

[Beltane70]

Tranzor Z was out in '85? I could have sworn that I remember seeing it a few years earlier than that. Guess my memory is flawed.

[Perrych]

I didn't misquote you, you're changing the discussion from how Robotech was the groundbreaking show that introduced anime to the US to you're own little field of argument.

Actually, if you look at the quote I referenced - I was making a point about when the term "anime" came into the western vernacular. Someone had said it was called Japanimation and I was saying that the first real mainstream mention of anime was via Robotech Art 1. How does that relate to the discussion? Simple: Robotech was the first show that I can recall that pulled back the curtain and showed its Japanese roots via Art 1. It was honest that it was drawing from three non-related cartoons. I can't recall Starblazers do that via Western literature, nor Tranzor Z or Voltron. It wasn't groundbreaking in introducing anime, but it was groundbreaking in introducing the larger world of anime via its related literature. Robotech was an easy entry point for kids and teenagers to learn more. And Art 1 was widely disseminated - at least around where I lived - that any fan could have learned more about the roots of the series and how it linked with so much more.

[terry the lone wolf]

Actually, if you look at the quote I referenced - I was making a point about when the term "anime" came into the western vernacular. Someone had said it was called Japanimation and I was saying that the first real mainstream mention of anime was via Robotech Art 1. How does that relate to the discussion? Simple: Robotech was the first show that I can recall that pulled back the curtain and showed its Japanese roots via Art 1. It was honest that it was drawing from three non-related cartoons. I can't recall Starblazers do that via Western literature, nor Tranzor Z or Voltron. It wasn't groundbreaking in introducing anime, but it was groundbreaking in introducing the larger world of anime via its related literature. Robotech was an easy entry point for kids and teenagers to learn more. And Art 1 was widely disseminated - at least around where I lived - that any fan could have learned more about the roots of the series and how it linked with so much more.

Robotech Roots...I remember you well..

[EXO]

So what you're trying to tell me is that everyone before Robotech that watched those other shows had no idea that what they were watching came from Japan, I mean aside from the kids that were too young to even know what Japan was to begin with... and that most people needed Art 1 to reveal this to them. I mean I'm with Sketchley. I think we're all from different parts of the world and had different parts and we all had different experiences but the fact that Art 1 was Toto revealing the man behind the curtains is something new to me. I bought Art 1 and the only thing it revealed to me were the names of the original shows but I thought it was obvious that they were unrelated shows and that there really was no 7Zark7 that G-Force reported to.

[EXO]

Not every fan of Voltron were comic book fans. I had plenty of friends who watched Voltron or even Robotech on a daily basis never even stepped into a comic book store. It seems if you visted your local speciality shop you'd be able to find out the Japanese origins of your favorite cartoons IE models, toys, books, etc that might've had the original Asian packaging. My store was Geppi's Comic World; they had videos and all sorts of anime related merchandise..

I also have Vol. 3 of the Starblazers TV comic but I didn't know they existed until !992 years after Starblazers was cancelled. I never seen an episode because it aired in Washington DC and I lived in Baltimore..

But they all bought Robotech Art 1?

[mecha2241]

This conversation belongs more in the old, dead Robotech and HG threads, not really in this current LLA thread...

[Perrych]

So what you're trying to tell me is that everyone before Robotech that watched those other shows had no idea that what they were watching came from Japan, I mean aside from the kids that were too young to even know what Japan was to begin with... and that most people needed Art 1 to reveal this to them. I mean I'm with Sketchley. I think we're all from different parts of the world and had different parts and we all had different experiences but the fact that Art 1 was Toto revealing the man behind the curtains is something new to me. I bought Art 1 and the only thing it revealed to me were the names of the original shows but I thought it was obvious that they were unrelated shows and that there really was no 7Zark7 that G-Force reported to.

Glad it was obvious to you. I was a kid who didn't pick up on that - and Yes, I knew where Japan was. I'm not trying to win the srgument - I'm trying to show that Robotech did open some doors to many folks, maybe not you or maybe not someone in other parts of the world - I get that, but please understand it was formative in many folks knowledge in the genre. It doesn't make us stupid or lesser - it means we just were young or didn't care or liked these cartoons among many others,

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

So what you're trying to tell me is that everyone before Robotech that watched those other shows had no idea that what they were watching came from Japan, I mean aside from the kids that were too young to even know what Japan was to begin with...

don't mean to jump in the argument but just wanted to comment on a point. please forgive my poor writing skills.

i definitely agree with you that we all from different parts of the world.

In the US, any hand drawn show was considered a "cartoon" and associated with kids. So i think many in the US, the audience for these mentioned shows were kids... (of course there's exceptions)

in New York City, WPIX station, which carried Robotech, Voltron, slotted these shows around kid's schedules, during breakfast 6:30-8am in the mornings prior to school and when kids come home after school 2:30-5pm

Sat morning cartoon ran longer because kids were home and had no school and Sunday mornings right before Church (this is the 80s during Reagan's admin so Religion and values was Republican)

Robotech ran weekday mornings 6:30am Voltron Lions 4pm daily. Sat morning ABC ran "G force."

Macross which was made for adult audience in Japan was converted to US tv as a kids "cartoon". (sorry thought it was)

Any (under 16) pre-teens that watched cartoons were considered creepy in the 80's, seriously, if any teenager past 16 watched carebears or smurfs, transformers Gi JOE was highly detestable.

Since it was only targeted to kids, many at least from NYC did not know where cartoons came from. because the audience were mainly pre-teens.

it was more confusing that some US cartoons such as transformers were animated in Japan, (Artists from Korea). I kept watching the ending credits to Transformers the movie because i wanted to see what happens to unicrons head and started to see Japanese names. So maybe Transformers were from Japan i thought???

the only thing we knew that were imported at the time were those Saturday afternoon Kung Fu flicks that are badly overdubbed.

the only reason i knew Robotech was not from the US was when Roy died"

at the period in US tv, shows that were violent could not kill off anyone without severe media backlash (A-Team, GI JOE)

so i was shocked to see characters die... at that point i knew it did not come from the US. I was surprised they got away with showing cartoons with death.

I discovered the truth when i stopped into Yaohan Japanese Mall and a guy working there as a clerk named Darren explained everything to me. He was in his 20's and knew everything about Japanamation. (i thought he was creepy at first for watching "cartoons as an adult" but later learned about Japan culture... i was a sort of Zentradi experiencing new culture for the first time.) I was shocked the first time learning in different parts of the world, adults watched "cartoons" (it was a US birth stereotype to label anything a cartoon)... i know that sounds like i'm joking but i'm definitely serious.

he also sold me some vhs homemade anime Megazone 23 and Macross the movie the clash of the bio.

from there i searched and found books nippon and learned about mangas and was beginning to learn about Japanese culture how Macross the motion picture was for an adult audience.

So i could see for those in the US, Robotech being the first known taste of Japanamation because of the demographics of cartoons limited Robotech to be exposed mainly to only kids. though we had g force and others, we were kids so we didn't know...

so do you guys think carebears are going to make a comeback? , jk!!

Edited September 2, 2013 by davidwhangchoi

[azrael]

And all this has to do with RT: Love, Live, Alive how? Don't even answer that cuz I don't care.

Get back on topic.

[VF5SS]

Macross wasn't made for adult audiences in Japan. It was made for made to primarily sell toys and model kits to kids. Do you think adults were buying lots of Takatoku toys?

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

Macross wasn't made for adult audiences in Japan. It was made for made to primarily sell toys and model kits to kids. Do you think adults were buying lots of Takatoku toys?

opps i thought Macross, the motion picture was for adults.

corrected previous post thanks!

Edited September 2, 2013 by davidwhangchoi

[sketchley]

opps i thought Macross, the motion picture was for adults.

corrected previous post thanks!

The movie version probably was, but the TV show was made for kids (and the way you phrased your sentence implied that you were talking about the TV version of Macross, not the movie version).

The TV version is what ended up being used as the first 1/3 of the Robotech series. And parts of it may or may not have ended up in "Love Live Alive" (someone else will have to confirm that scenes from Macross made it into LLA).

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

The movie version probably was, but the TV show was made for kids (and the way you phrased your sentence implied that you were talking about the TV version of Macross, not the movie version).

The TV version is what ended up being used as the first 1/3 of the Robotech series. And parts of it may or may not have ended up in "Love Live Alive" (someone else will have to confirm that scenes from Macross made it into LLA).

you are correct i was referring to the TV show as well as the movie thinking it's for the same audience. Thanks for the clarification.

[EXO]

Glad it was obvious to you. I was a kid who didn't pick up on that - and Yes, I knew where Japan was. I'm not trying to win the srgument - I'm trying to show that Robotech did open some doors to many folks, maybe not you or maybe not someone in other parts of the world - I get that, but please understand it was formative in many folks knowledge in the genre. It doesn't make us stupid or lesser - it means we just were young or didn't care or liked these cartoons among many others,

just an argument for argument's sake... like we would at a bar about nerd stuff, sports or politics...

[skullmilitia]

So does LLA explain how Yune somehow pulled out of his ass that Roy is still alive.

Because he is in the Robotech/VOLTRON series.

[myk]

Alternate universe?

Hey, I'll accept that as long as Roy gets to show Princess Alura his blazing sword...

Edited September 2, 2013 by myk

[azrael]

So does LLA explain how Yune somehow pulled out of his ass that Roy is still alive.

LLA was so groundbreaking and such a success that it shattered the space-time continuum and brought RT to the Voltron-verse. It was so awesome that Roy was brought back to life, just so he could do battle with evil King Zarkon and the Robeasts.

[terry the lone wolf]

But they all bought Robotech Art 1?

I give up; the anime business was just "BOOMING" in the early to mid-eighties. Full season episodes of Starblazers, Tran Zor Z, and Robotech were available on VHS and Beta video tapes for sale or rental. Stores had huge anime departments so people didn't have to start anime clubs and share bootleg tapes and EVERYBODY knew what anime was..

Now back to Love, Live, Alive..The only connection to Macross Saga is Rick's cameo transmission to any surviving REF soldiers on Earth. LLA really starts with Lancer telling how the Invid came to Earth because of Zor Prime destroying the Master's ship over the ruins of the SDF-1,, SDF-2, and Khyron's battlecruiser releasing the protoculture spores all over the planet..

[Gubaba]

I give up; the anime business was just "BOOMING" in the early to mid-eighties. Full season episodes of Starblazers, Tran Zor Z, and Robotech were available on VHS and Beta video tapes for sale or rental. Stores had huge anime departments so people didn't have to start anime clubs and share bootleg tapes and EVERYBODY knew what anime was..

Oh, come ON. Nobody's saying that. But to say that Robotech single-handedly created anime fandom in the west is just as wrong. It helped, sure, but again, there was Star Blazers, which stated, at the beginning of the closing credits "Originally aired in Japan as SPACE CRUISER YAMATO" (and yeah, I know, nobody reads credits and Star Blazers wasn't broadcast in your area...).

But I think most visibility for anime came through toys and model kits. Because of Transformers (and, er, Gobots) robots were big, and many toys stores near me were picking up cheap import robot toys and kits from Japan. Dorvack, Orguss, Galvion, Dougram... the boxes showed characters on them, and it didn't take a genius to realize that they all had that "big-eye" look from Speed Racer.

Meanwhile, Fred Patten and Ardith Carlton were writing articles for magazines like Starlog, championing anime.

And a lot of poorly-dubbed films were getting dumped onto VHS for the growing home video market, or getting shown on Saturday afternoon (in L.A., at least) on Family Film Festival. And a lot of series were being broadcast on the SPanish-language stations in L.A., as well.

Robotech is a very important ingredient for the awareness of anime in the west, but it isn't the only one, or even the most important (my bet for THAT would go to Transformers, for opening up the toy floodgate).

Of course, none of this addresses why Robotech LLA needs to exist in 2013.

[Keith]

Very important ingredient? Nope, just a dead in the water footnote. The whole point is that it completely failed at what HG and the few remaining fans claim it succeeded at.

[Gubaba]

Very important ingredient? Nope, just a dead in the water footnote. The whole point is that it completely failed at what HG and the few remaining fans claim it succeeded at.

That's going too far, too. It certainly made ME want to search out more stuff like it (which led me pretty quickly to Megazone, Iczer-1, and Zeta Gundam).

HG has never really known how to capitalize on the show (the fan-club stuff was embarrassing, and the Comico comics were pretty crappy), but the show itself was heaps better than Voltron, Battle of the Planets, or Warriors of the Wind, and almost as good as Star Blazers.

[EXO]

That's going too far, too. It certainly made ME want to search out more stuff like it (which led me pretty quickly to Megazone, Iczer-1, and Zeta Gundam).

HG has never really known how to capitalize on the show (the fan-club stuff was embarrassing, and the Comico comics were pretty crappy), but the show itself was heaps better than Voltron, Battle of the Planets, or Warriors of the Wind, and almost as good as Star Blazers.

That's exactly the credit I give it. Voltron or the other shows didn't make me seek out and and led me to Bubblegum Crisis and Appleseed, etc. as much as Robotech did... I just don't think it broke thru the pop culture wall the way Adult Swim and Toonami did in the late 90's early 2000s. The subculture of anime fans from the 80's that joined anime clubs, signed up for fanzines AND the few that seeked out LLA weren't gonna flourish IMO. Fanzines died out, mech anime dwindled and the new western audience wanted anime as close to it's pure form as much as possible. I credit that to Toren Smith more than any one.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

So Robotech was like a gateway drug like weed (or Transformers was a gateway through toys). and Sailor moon pokemon were like full blown drugs like crack and cocaine.

And LLA is like a cheap method drug like sniffing a bottle of white out or toxic fumes to attempt to get the same effect.

Is that correct?

[CoreyD]

I think that actually sounds pretty close to the right answer hahaha.

[Perrych]

So Robotech was like a gateway drug like weed (or Transformers was a gateway through toys). and Sailor moon pokemon were like full blown drugs like crack and cocaine.

And LLA is like a cheap method drug like sniffing a bottle of white out or toxic fumes to attempt to get the same effect.

Is that correct?

To follow that analogy, LLA is more like a Pink Floyd album you listened to the first time you experienced weed that has been re-released with new mastering that you get all excited about but ultimately disappoints because it wasn't as good as you remembered.

[Gubaba]

I'm not familiar with that comic but I wonder if it explained the roots in Yamato.

More than that, it had an introduction by Yoshinobu Nishizaki, Yamato's producer.

[skullmilitia]

To follow that analogy, LLA is more like a Pink Floyd album you listened to the first time you experienced weed that has been re-released with new mastering that you get all excited about but ultimately disappoints because it wasn't as good as you remembered.

No, nothing like Floyd. LLA is like if Robotech was Poison's "Look what the cat dragged in" in the 80's, your buddy shows up 25 years later and gives you the remaster to listen too and you're like " I liked this back then?" Then hands you Bret Michaels solo Album and your ears vomit.

[terry the lone wolf]

Yeah I forgot about people like Fred Patten, Toren Smith, and even Ben Dunn. I think Heavy Metal played a part also. For all intents in purposes there was no U.S. anime industry in the 80's just shows airing on UHF channels or basic Cable (if you were lucky to have Cable). It was a complete underground culture where you share & trade videos, bring your VCRs to your friend's house to tape movies, or rent any rinky dink compliation video (Ultraman, The Adventures of Ultraman, Thunderbirds 2086) made up of different episodes to be movies..

Yes, Robotech was a step that spun out of a sub-culture that already existed but it did help to give a wider appeal to this culture.Though I don't agree it was a small step; RT premiered in major markets and it had huge word of mouth appeal.

I don't fault HG for using the LLA footage; I'm suprised that it wasn't utilized sooner.

[SuperSenpai]

I don't know if this experience was very common, but for me, a big part of the increased awareness had to do with friends who had lived abroad and/or traveled to Japan and brought back toys and videos. I can remember the first time I saw the original lion Voltron die-cast toy at my friend's house, who had spent a summer in Japan in the mid-80s. This was right when the Voltron anime series was just starting to air in my area and the toys hadn't been released yet. My jaw dropped to the floor seeing that thing, and when I asked him where he got he said "Japan". Then he proceeded to show me all his Transformer toys in their Japanese packaging.

Because of friends who had lived abroad, I got a pretty quick lesson in where the shows and toys were coming from. And even at that young age, the word on the street among our friends was that the American stuff was ok, but the stuff as originally released in Japan was way better.

[Legioss]

I see what Harmony Gold is getting at. The next logical step after Robotech is to move on to anime, especially now that Robotech isn't Japanese animation anymore. Banky says this industry failed because he's offering that as evidence Harmony Gold created it. See, he's trying to get you to compare non-Harmony Gold productions to Robotech. He wants you to realize that by eternally dwelling on Robotech, there is only a dead end of repurposed dubs. But if you watch something else, it will spawn an industry that Harmony Gold will be very proud of. OMG it's true, Robotech introduces people to anime!