Robotech - Love Live Alive + Shadow Chronicles 2-movie set

[skullmilitia]

As long as I don't have to hear Tony Oliver's voice again, It'll be almost watchable.

I can't stand mo rick, it's like Tobey Maguire as peter parker... oh god and he's wanting to play Rick

in the Live action movie.

AHHHHHHHHHH!

[EXO]

The other benefit of Hasbro keeping these franchises going is that they kept getting an influx of newer/younger fans which is vital to a franchise's future. Look at the fanbase of TF or GI Joe -- sure they are a lot of adult fans, but plenty of kids are into them as well thanks to their continual output of toys, comics, and animation over the years.

Yup. It's not even a thing that HG failed at but Mattel and Matchbox also. At least Mattel has Barbie and Matchbox has die cast cars.

Robotech, on the other hand, is kept alive by a dwindling bunch of dudes in their 30's.

Those are the guys with disposable income though... Big West and Yamato figured it out in the early 2000s... instead of putting crappy merchandise out there for the masses that don't care for, they concentrated on hardcore fans that wanted high end toys. Sure they didn't perfect it until midway thru the decade but they eventually pulled it off IMO. It helps that one of the heads of Yamato was a discriminating Macross fan, not just a bunch of fan boys that want their ass kissed by other fan boys. If HG had their crap together back when they pulled all that C&D crap back then, they could have had a decent franchise in their hands by now. Instead they chose to regurgitate not only Macross/Mospeada stuff, but all that Sentinels BS that they already said was not canon and kept doing it for another 12 years. You can't foster a anime/mech property without writers, character designers and mech designers... if not you're just doomed to let your property get stale. Even Kawamori was smart enough to bring in Tenjin to give the original series stuff a fresh look.

[Gubaba]

You said EVERY Macross Kawamori was involved with and that's simply not true. Macross 2 is out of Kawamori's continuity yes but that doesn't stop Big West from profiting off of it. Music from Macross 2 was used in Macross 7, Mac 2's Ishstar has been counted with Minmay, Mylene, & Sheryl as a Macross Diva, and Macross 2 was in the Macross Timeline video that was on the Macross Plus Movie Edition..

You're just being snarky now. Look, even in Macross II, Haruhiko Mikimoto and Sukehiro Tomita were involved. They were original creators. Which original creators were involved in ANYTHING Robotech (not adaptors, CREATORS)?

And if you think Crystal Dreams, RT3000 (both failed products), and the Anatarctic comics should be involved, then "Macross: Final Outpost Earth" (THE LIVE-ACTION HOLLYWOOD MOVIE!!), Macross 3DVF-X, and the TON of manga that have come out via Macross Ace and Newtype Ace should count, too, right?

Please stop carrying water for Harmony Gold. Like Cerebus, they don't love you. They just want your money.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Gubaba

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

Please stop carrying water for Harmony Gold. Like Cerebus, they don't love you. They just want your money.

Does anyone remember game developer Tim Langdell?

What he did for years in the game industry really reminds me of what HG is doing with the Macross franchise in the US.

http://kotaku.com/5312534/trademark-troll-is-at-it-again-[update]

[SuperSenpai]

Those are the guys with disposable income though... Big West and Yamato figured it out in the early 2000s... instead of putting crappy merchandise out there for the masses that don't care for, they concentrated on hardcore fans that wanted high end toys. Sure they didn't perfect it until midway thru the decade but they eventually pulled it off IMO. It helps that one of the heads of Yamato was a discriminating Macross fan, not just a bunch of fan boys that want their ass kissed by other fan boys. If HG had their crap together back when they pulled all that C&D crap back then, they could have had a decent franchise in their hands by now. Instead they chose to regurgitate not only Macross/Mospeada stuff, but all that Sentinels BS that they already said was not canon and kept doing it for another 12 years. You can't foster a anime/mech property without writers, character designers and mech designers... if not you're just doomed to let your property get stale. Even Kawamori was smart enough to bring in Tenjin to give the original series stuff a fresh look.

Big West and Yamato took advantage of the dudes in their 30s with disposable income for sure, which absolutely was a smart move on their part. But hasn't Macross been able to keep interest in the franchise alive by bringing younger fans into the fold as well? Macross Frontier seems to have been pretty popular in Japan. Didn't the soundtrack do pretty well? I don't know Japanese culture all that well, but to me those songs sound like they are aimed squarely at the Japanese equivalent of the Carly Ray Jepson demographic.

But in any case I think we are in agreement that HG really dropped the ball, especially as the fanbase has the interest and money to spend.

[terry the lone wolf]

You're just being snarky now. Look, even in Macross II, Haruhiko Mikimoto and Sukehiro Tomita were involved. They were original creators. Which original creators were involved in ANYTHING Robotech (not adaptors, CREATORS)?

And if you think Crystal Dreams, RT3000 (both failed products), and the Anatarctic comics should be involved, then "Macross: Final Outpost Earth" (THE LIVE-ACTION HOLLYWOOD MOVIE!!), Macross 3DVF-X, and the TON of manga that have come out via Macross Ace and Newtype Ace should count, too, right?

Please stop carrying water for Harmony Gold. Like Cerebus, they don't love you. They just want your money.

If you read my post on how I criticized HG especially Tommy Yune for always dissing their past projects (IE RT: 3000) and not using the Sentinels more you can tell I'm no HG loyalist. Dude said specifically that Shoji San worked on every iteration of MACROSS and that's not true. Now we're adding other creators to prove his point. Carl Macek set it up that writers or creators could put their own stamp on RT. Cancelling of the Sentinels allowed for more creative freedom but before Tommy Yune came on board these other projects (IE games, novels, comic book) were no less Robotech. His point was since Shoji Kawamori wasn't involved with MAC2 it's not really MACROSS and that's not true....

[EXO]

Big West and Yamato took advantage of the dudes in their 30s with disposable income for sure, which absolutely was a smart move on their part. But hasn't Macross been able to keep interest in the franchise alive by bringing younger fans into the fold as well? Macross Frontier seems to have been pretty popular in Japan. Didn't the soundtrack do pretty well? I don't know Japanese culture all that well, but to me those songs sound like they are aimed squarely at the Japanese equivalent of the Carly Ray Jepson demographic.

But in any case I think we are in agreement that HG really dropped the ball, especially as the fanbase has the interest and money to spend.

Yes... totally agree... Actually I agreed with you from the start, I just wanted to expand on the fact that the 30 year old men isn't a demographic you want to entice with little kid toys ... actually plenty of my friends buy those too but only as a filler to their high end crap... lol.

[Gubaba]

If you read my post on how I criticized HG especially Tommy Yune for always dissing their past projects (IE RT: 3000) and not using the Sentinels more you can tell I'm no HG loyalist. Dude said specifically that Shoji San worked on every iteration of MACROSS and that's not true. Now we're adding other creators to prove his point. Carl Macek set it up that writers or creators could put their own stamp on RT. Cancelling of the Sentinels allowed for more creative freedom but before Tommy Yune came on board these other projects (IE games, novels, comic book) were no less Robotech. His point was since Shoji Kawamori wasn't involved with MAC2 it's not really MACROSS and that's not true....

Well, yeah... it's kinda not. Relegated to a "Parallel Story," singer didn't show up for the most recent Crossover Live an' all that... But still, to answer your question, YES: other franchises double-dip. But the corollary to that is: YES, other franchises' fans get PISSED about that (Oh, you thought only Robotech fans got upset...? Look around, Bucky).

Still, you wanted to include failed RT projects in Zor Primus's timeline. That's fine, as long we we allow failed Macross projects in it as well. That's fair, right?

[Keith]

When your main argument is that Kawamori didn't work on II, you've already lost.

[terry the lone wolf]

When your main argument is that Kawamori didn't work on II, you've already lost.

?....

[VF5SS]

Can we all just agree that still being a Robotech fan means you've already lost :v

[technoblue]

That would be easy! But, I don't have a stake in this, so why not? ; )

[terry the lone wolf]

Well..Let's see what I learned..Macross 2 isn't really Macross..Though, it follows all the Macross criteria: Alien invasion, music used as weapons, & a love triangle. So following this logic Gundam Wing, GGundam, Gundam00, and certain series from Universal Century that weren't created by Tomino isn't really Gundam either..

[terry the lone wolf]

Answerman on ANN gives an answer (of sorts) regarding the Macross trademark outside of Japan..

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2013-08-23

[Gubaba]

Well..Let's see what I learned..Macross 2 isn't really Macross..Though, it follows all the Macross criteria: Alien invasion, music used as weapons, & a love triangle. So following this logic Gundam Wing, GGundam, Gundam00, and certain series from Universal Century that weren't created by Tomino isn't really Gundam either..

Well, it's kinda not. It's ignored by every major source.

But please, tell us more about how a 90-minute clip show is REALLY GREAT.

[terry the lone wolf]

Well, it's kinda not. It's ignored by every major source.

But please, tell us more about how a 90-minute clip show is REALLY GREAT.

I wonder if Macross 2 was a huge success and if Kawamori didn't return to Macross would people still take this stance. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you can change history. Hey I hated X3 but you don't see me going around and saying that X3 wasn't an X-Men movie..

[Gubaba]

I wonder if Macross 2 was a huge success and if Kawamori didn't return to Macross would people still take this stance. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you can change history. Hey I hated X3 but you don't see me going around and saying that X3 wasn't an X-Men movie..

Oh, cry me a river. Just 'cause Robotech: Love Live Alive sucked, you try to dump on Macross...

[skullmilitia]

Damn, as much as I liked Robotech: the first Macross Saga

Simply because it was dubbed in English, everything I've been reading

Just completely turns me off to it.

I'm sad that I've given any of these people money.

[Duke Togo]

I wonder if Macross 2 was a huge success and if Kawamori didn't return to Macross would people still take this stance. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you can change history. Hey I hated X3 but you don't see me going around and saying that X3 wasn't an X-Men movie..

It's Kawamori's story and HE changed the history because he didn't like II.

[CoreyD]

I saw Robotech Love Live Alive at the store on sale (already on sale, gotta be a hint) today and was tempted. About 5 min total of new footage, if that, and maybe 5 more minutes of new/old footage from the original Love Live Alive. The rest of the 90 min is filled with Gloval's Report style episode recaps.

I didn't even catch the Rick Hunter cameo voice over or whatever it is and I doubt I've got the motivation to try and find it. Anyone know where it is? Do I even care?

The newly created animation is really uneven, and I'm not talking about the new/old footage. In some places, like Lancer's space battle, it looks decent, but the epilogue looks horrendous.

That's all I got.

Edited August 26, 2013 by CoreyD

[Einherjar]

For reference:

http://www.nyaa.se/?page=view&tid=223549

[CoreyD]

Rick Hunter cameo question answered, another cheap shot by HG: Tony Oliver's line for the "old timers scene" was taken from The Shadow Chronicles

[JetJockey]

LLA is like 13 on Amazon in the US. The 20 disk set might be worth it if it was in Blu-Ray, which would be something new for Robotech. In this day of digital downloads via netflix, itunes, etc., I wonder how many people really want a massive DVD set? The day of disk media is coming to a close rapidly; it would make more sense to offer something new as a whole, not just one new movie.

I think people would want a massive Blu-ray set. Watching physical media is still higher quality compared to online stuff. But the people behind Robotech insist on milking this for all it's worth. So we get yet another DVD set. I continue to wait for the Blu-ray.

So, it's only been what...2 months since RT:LLA came out on it's own set with SC and now they're combining it with yet another collection set and only throwing in Mospeada: Love Live Alive and with a fanart box? Didn't they release a boxset for the entire series like a year ago?

That's what I was thinking too. I think another company released the last Robotech box set just last Chrstmas. And that's on a big sale right now.

I read a forum post that said this new remastered version's box set is different and there still isn't a version of Robotech with the removed / cleaned up footage and normal sound effects. I watched an episode on youtube with the new sound effects and I didn't like it. It sounds too new.

The other benefit of Hasbro keeping these franchises going is that they kept getting an influx of newer/younger fans which is vital to a franchise's future. Look at the fanbase of TF or GI Joe -- sure they are a lot of adult fans, but plenty of kids are into them as well thanks to their continual output of toys, comics, and animation over the years.

Robotech, on the other hand, is kept alive by a dwindling bunch of dudes in their 30's.

True, some companies can get away with making crap and keeping fans. When I stopped getting G.I. Joe and Transformers it was on a downhill slide. The toys and shows were bad.

I guess Robotech is kept alive by people wanting to buy anything Robotech. I remember meeting a guy who has all the Masterpiece book package style Veritechs and didn't even open them. I told him that the Yamato versions were better and he didn't even care. I believe he had the Voltron from Toynami too.

[MechTech]

My wife was nice enough that while at Toys R Us bought it for me and the chillins. Yes, unfortuneatly LLA was a clipshow and a little animation. I belive reality is that there are just not the funds there to do what the fans want. I thought the ending was cool and the way they tied the story together, but it was a clipshow. The embossed cover looked cool though! - MT

[Legioss]

I've seen hours of quality animation on Youtube, better than Shadow Chronicles or RLLA, made by people who give it away for free. Neither the state of the economy nor the anime dub industry effects them. The truth is that Harmony Gold are lazy, IP squatting, copyright trolls.

Banky's latest scam is making you rebuy Robotech for $90 if you want Mospeada Love Live Alive. Not Blu-Ray of course. That would make too much sense. It's on 20 DVDs. Harmony Gold's genius A/V experts claim that you'd have to blow up the video and make it look bad, so Blu-Ray isn't possible.

[technoblue]

Although the article is poorly edited and a bit rushed from the author, I think it succeeds in showing how much pull the Macross saga has over the rest of the series:

http://io9.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-robotech-1222929763

And as much as HG is trying to distance themselves from it with Mospeada, including the new Love, Live, Alive release, I'm just not sure if that will work. It's press like this that makes me sad, not because of the history but because there are fans that have limited to no access for whatever reason.

*sigh*

Edited August 30, 2013 by technoblue

[azrael]

Although the article is poorly edited and a bit rushed from the author, I think it succeeds in showing how much pull the Macross saga has over the rest of the series:

It's from that same author who wrote that RT was the greatest love story. That should say something about his opinions and editorial at that site.

[SuperSenpai]

The journalistic quality of that article is at about the same level as your average fanboy's message board post.

Scratch that -- most fanboys write much better than that.

[Einherjar]

Although the article is poorly edited and a bit rushed from the author, I think it succeeds in showing how much pull the Macross saga has over the rest of the series:

http://io9.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-robotech-1222929763

And as much as HG is trying to distance themselves from it with Mospeada, including the new Love, Live, Alive release, I'm just not sure if that will work. It's press like this that makes me sad, not because of the history but because there are fans that have limited to no access for whatever reason.

*sigh*

Another nostalgia piece that focuses primarily on Macross, trying to rationalize this version and talked about in the past sense. That's nothing new.

I remember in January e-mailing i09 about Love live Alive, thinking someone would want to do a review about it when it came out. I figured someone would appreciate the publicity somewhere down the line. Guess this is why nothing happened with it.

[terry the lone wolf]

Did children learn what Anime was because of Robotech? That's more or less correct. Yes, there were other anime programs before RT (Battle of The Planets, Voltron, Starblazers) but none of them fully explained they were imports from Japan. RT had comics, art books, and all sorts of media that clearly pointed out that this show was anime or at that time Japanimation. Do Voltron fans accept their show as anime like RT fans do? Voltron in the U.S. is more close to G.I. Joe or Transformers in terms of over all popularity while RT fans are quite smaller. Yes the credit roll names the Japanese creators but what kid pays attention to the credit roll (well, I did because I'm a nerd for the credit roll)? I've watched anime all my life but I didn't know what to call it until Robotech came along..

[VF5SS]

http://collectiondx.com/toy_review/1985/binoculars

Guys I think you can use these to help you find Rick Hunter.

[Keith]

http://collectiondx.com/toy_review/1985/binoculars

Guys I think you can use these to help you find Rick Hunter.

"BOOM! "

The sound of how awesome that was.

[EXO]

Did children learn what Anime was because of Robotech? That's more or less correct. Yes, there were other anime programs before RT (Battle of The Planets, Voltron, Starblazers) but none of them fully explained they were imports from Japan. RT had comics, art books, and all sorts of media that clearly pointed out that this show was anime or at that time Japanimation. Do Voltron fans accept their show as anime like RT fans do? Voltron in the U.S. is more close to G.I. Joe or Transformers in terms of over all popularity while RT fans are quite smaller. Yes the credit roll names the Japanese creators but what kid pays attention to the credit roll (well, I did because I'm a nerd for the credit roll)? I've watched anime all my life but I didn't know what to call it until Robotech came along..

Did Robotech really "introduce" anime to the west? If anything anime took a 180 after Robotech... We got a few mech shows imported as OAVs but then it was the Pokemon and Dragonball craze. It wasn't really until Evangelion and Cowboy Bebop that anime boomed. Cosplayers and Otakus didn't culminate into big Anime Conventions until that era, IMO. Robotech attracted a lot of hardcore fans but I can't say it truly opened a floodgate. And it wasn't called anime in the west back then. It was referred to as Japanimation.

[sketchley]

(This post is not meant to contradict, replace or correct Exo's, as different people in different countries have different experiences)

If memory serves:

pre-Robotech: anime was being regularly imported (in the sense of being Anglicized and kiddified), but its origins were obfuscated.

Robotech period: anime was regularly imported, but its origins were more clear (the aforementioned Japanimation).

post-Robotech period: Dragonball, Pokemon and Sailor Moon happened, and the floodgates opened.

I still remember one of the older members of the anime club in my hometown lamenting the new wave of fans that joined the club during the anime boom that started in 1995 (more commonly known as the Sailor Moon fans). Apparently it doubled or tripled the club's membership, but they were just not the same as the 'old school' fans.

Not saying that Robotech wasn't an important step on the road to the floodgates being opened, just that it wasn't very much more than a step.

Edited September 1, 2013 by sketchley

[Perrych]

Did Robotech really "introduce" anime to the west? If anything anime took a 180 after Robotech... We got a few mech shows imported as OAVs but then it was the Pokemon and Dragonball craze. It wasn't really until Evangelion and Cowboy Bebop that anime boomed. Cosplayers and Otakus didn't culminate into big Anime Conventions until that era, IMO. Robotech attracted a lot of hardcore fans but I can't say it truly opened a floodgate. And it wasn't called anime in the west back then. It was referred to as Japanimation.

I think, though, for a lot of westerners that Robotech Art 1 was the first time we were introduced to the term anime and the greater world of animation that Robotech was drawn from. It might not have driven a "boom" in anime but was a first taste. Certainly the late 80s and 90s were the beginning of the boom. Starblazers, Robotech and Voltron were early edited versions of anime that introduced the medium. I mean, technically, you could make an argument that the early Disney cartoons were the beginning if you want to get technical since they were what anime was often borrowing from initially. For me, going into a comic shop and seeing a cyclone on the shelf with the English word "Mospeada" on it a midst many Japanese letters was my first realization that Robotech was not an American cartoon.