VF-15 Banshee Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 Personally, i blame Star Wars. But not for much longer now that they've decided, "Oh yeah, the past two decades of post-ROTJ EU? Yeah, no. We want to do something fresh."
Perrych Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 Someday people will understand that maintaining "canon" is not the end all be all for a franchise. Especially not in one that is inherently self contradictory like Robotech. I'm not sure what you get the self-contradictory part. Please elaborate. But, of course, particularly for Robotech, the mythos and canon are incredibly important.
Duke Togo Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 Personally, i blame Star Wars. But not for much longer now that they've decided, "Oh yeah, the past two decades of post-ROTJ EU? Yeah, no. We want to do something fresh." And thank god for that. The EU has a lot of crap in it, and it tends to treat the Force like magic, instead of something natural.
VF5SS Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 I'm not sure what you get the self-contradictory part. Please elaborate. But, of course, particularly for Robotech, the mythos and canon are incredibly important. Any scene where they're talking about something that is not happening on screen because the existing footage doesn't fit their new plot is pretty blatantly self contradictory. The whole SDF-2 thing, Dana's hair changing color (which Carl Macek once said all it took was a bottle of peroxide), things like the nature of Protoculture, etc. All of these things stem of course from trying to tie together three shows and also trying to work off rough translations. There's also a bunch of stuff simply left over the from original scripts (Jeanne Francis has a brother in Southern Cross but oops we forgot to get rid of that line in Robotech). It's a mess of characters, settings, and technology constantly being written out due to the fact the source shows were never meant to tie together. And if you want to talk about the "mythos" the only really important thing is constantly alluding to Macross so they can keep control of it. Macross is the only reason Robotech is popular as it was a ground breaking show so they have they have to keep reminding people that yes it still exists even in these completely different looking "sequels." At this point Mospeada is simply a means to an end as it's the only one of the three shows Tatsunoko (and by extension Harmony Gold) control entirely top to bottom in both Japan and the rest of the world. It kinda sorta looked the most like Macross so they can keep trying to dress it up as the real continuation. I am just sick and tired of having to deal with this broken old show that just won't go away.
Duke Togo Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 It's fuel! It's magic! It's a drug! It's Zuzu's petals!
Perrych Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 Any scene where they're talking about something that is not happening on screen because the existing footage doesn't fit their new plot is pretty blatantly self contradictory. The whole SDF-2 thing, Dana's hair changing color (which Carl Macek once said all it took was a bottle of peroxide), things like the nature of Protoculture, etc. All of these things stem of course from trying to tie together three shows and also trying to work off rough translations. There's also a bunch of stuff simply left over the from original scripts (Jeanne Francis has a brother in Southern Cross but oops we forgot to get rid of that line in Robotech). It's a mess of characters, settings, and technology constantly being written out due to the fact the source shows were never meant to tie together. And if you want to talk about the "mythos" the only really important thing is constantly alluding to Macross so they can keep control of it. Macross is the only reason Robotech is popular as it was a ground breaking show so they have they have to keep reminding people that yes it still exists even in these completely different looking "sequels." At this point Mospeada is simply a means to an end as it's the only one of the three shows Tatsunoko (and by extension Harmony Gold) control entirely top to bottom in both Japan and the rest of the world. It kinda sorta looked the most like Macross so they can keep trying to dress it up as the real continuation. I am just sick and tired of having to deal with this broken old show that just won't go away. I disagree about Macross being the only important thing. Mospeada was the favorite for a lot of folks and still is. Macross was the largest part and is the most well known since it was the first chapter. Still, SC and NG have plenty of fans. The blending of the three stories is quite remarkable with only a few errors. The idea of Zor was remarkable. The issuing protocol true matrix was strange watching SDF but made for a tragic war - somewhat analogous to the later Iraq chemical weapons search that led nations to fight over something that didn't exist or at least disappeared. I think not enough credit is given to Carl's vision to tie them together - although more work could have been done to tie the Southern Cross to The RDF. (The books did this later).
Einherjar Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 (edited) Yes, what a visionary Carl Macek was for having three different shows made by other people he could freely manipulate and eventually milk the hell out of as the foundations for HIS franchise. There has totally been no fallout from those humble beginnings that had long standing consequences for everyone, especially those that treat him as something more than an editor. Also, ignore the fact that everything except the original show plot-wise has been in this weird limbo where the staff hasn't decided if they actually happened or not, but people still use as proof that the franchise has a rich, totally not Spice-like drug fueled, defined universe that literally runs in circles as this material unfortunately implied in a non-metaphor sense. Edited August 21, 2013 by Einherjar
Beltane70 Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 I didn't know BW actually produce products. I thought they had 3rd parties like Studio Nue, Artmic, Model Hobby, & Satelight... They may be third parties, but every Macross story had Kawamori involved with it, unlike the Antarctic Press, etc. stuff which had no input or hand in creating Robotech stories from the original Robotech staff.
Keith Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 So... Have we started taking bets on hoe long it'll take for this topuc to be closed?
SuperSenpai Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 I disagree about Macross being the only important thing. Mospeada was the favorite for a lot of folks and still is. Macross was the largest part and is the most well known since it was the first chapter. Still, SC and NG have plenty of fans. The blending of the three stories is quite remarkable with only a few errors. The idea of Zor was remarkable. The issuing protocol true matrix was strange watching SDF but made for a tragic war - somewhat analogous to the later Iraq chemical weapons search that led nations to fight over something that didn't exist or at least disappeared. I think not enough credit is given to Carl's vision to tie them together - although more work could have been done to tie the Southern Cross to The RDF. (The books did this later). It may be true that many people like Mospeada/NG, and it may have even been the favorite segment of Robotech for many people, but the fact is that Robotech was largely driven by Macross. Macross was the least changed of the three animes, and it supplied the overall "skeleton" for the rest of the show. Macross was effectively the raison d'etre for Robotech, since HG added SC and Mospeada onto Macross in order to pad out the episode count, not the other way around. And Mospeada/NG fandom notwithstanding, when your average, casual fan thinks of Robotech, more often than not it's images of Macross that they associate with the name. Despite it's flaws and shortcomings, I still have a soft spot in my heart for Robotech. But that said, I'm of the opinion that whatever good was in Robotech was largely because it was based on a strong product -- the original Macross series. I think it's a bit much to heap praise upon Carl Macek's "grand vision", when most of the story changes were purely pragmatic. I just wish HG would stop taking credit for the strengths of Robotech that were largely due to the source material, not what they added.
Einherjar Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 (edited) The good news everyone, Mospeada Love Live Alive is finally getting an official release. The bad news, pay HG and Lionsgate another $100-$200 for it, you suckers! http://www.cityonfire.com/robotech-is-back-with-another-20-disc-collectable-set/ Well, I think I'm done talking about this BS to death. Everything I predicted from the first time they announced this "film" has tragically come true. Great time to be a Robotech fan, am I right? Edited August 22, 2013 by Einherjar
terry the lone wolf Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 They may be third parties, but every Macross story had Kawamori involved with it, unlike the Antarctic Press, etc. stuff which had no input or hand in creating Robotech stories from the original Robotech staff. Kawamori Senpai wasn't involved in Macross 2 OAV, Mac 2 manga, or any of the PC Engine games..
terry the lone wolf Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 The good news everyone, Mospeada Love Live Alive is finally getting an official release. The bad news, pay HG and Lionsgate another $100-$200 for it, you suckers! http://www.cityonfire.com/robotech-is-back-with-another-20-disc-collectable-set/ Well, I think I'm done talking about this BS to death. Everything I predicted from the first time they announced this "film" has tragically come true. Great time to be a Robotech fan, am I right? I always thought that Max cover art was done by fan. Is it a Studio Nue commission or something from HG?
Einherjar Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 I always thought that Max cover art was done by fan. Is it a Studio Nue commission or something from HG? Who cares, that's really superficial at this point.
EXO Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 http://www.deviantart.com/art/ROBOTECH-Max-Process-27320089
Keith Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 lol, 20 discs of robotech just to get LLA? Eat a dick HG.!
Perrych Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 LLA is like 13 on Amazon in the US. The 20 disk set might be worth it if it was in Blu-Ray, which would be something new for Robotech. In this day of digital downloads via netflix, itunes, etc., I wonder how many people really want a massive DVD set? The day of disk media is coming to a close rapidly; it would make more sense to offer something new as a whole, not just one new movie.
azrael Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 So, it's only been what...2 months since RT:LLA came out on it's own set with SC and now they're combining it with yet another collection set and only throwing in Mospeada: Love Live Alive and with a fanart box? Didn't they release a boxset for the entire series like a year ago?
EXO Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 Just wait another 2 months and it'll be a whole new set PLUS a never before recording of someone humming the robotech theme found in some closet they never checked.
technoblue Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 (edited) LoL! Robotech TV will never release on Blu. Edited August 22, 2013 by technoblue
Einherjar Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 LLA is like 13 on Amazon in the US. The 20 disk set might be worth it if it was in Blu-Ray, which would be something new for Robotech. In this day of digital downloads via netflix, itunes, etc., I wonder how many people really want a massive DVD set? The day of disk media is coming to a close rapidly; it would make more sense to offer something new as a whole, not just one new movie. That's not how Robotech works, Perrych. Sorry you are going to see what it's become since it's glory days. Trust me, it's a very sad and common story.
terry the lone wolf Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 Well I suppose there's never, ever, ever, ever multiple releases of the same product just Robotech..
Hoptimus Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 *facepalm* Man HG is so lame. Why was that stuff not on the Robotech LLA as a COLLECTORS edition. Dirty pool HG. Par for the course though with their current regime. I prefer to stick to the Novels/RPG's Pre Tommy Yune HG era...
VF-15 Banshee Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 This might be somewhat off-topic but, given all the history, I have to wonder why Robotech can't seem to maintain traction like other 80s franchises such as Transformers or G.I. Joe?
jenius Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 (edited) Um... No, most 80s shows lost traction long ago, RT has done better than most. That's like saying we should all be singers because it's worked out well for Madonna and Steven Tyler. Edit - jenius is still waiting for the conclusion of Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors Edited August 22, 2013 by jenius
EXO Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 Didn't work out too well for Thundercats and Voltron. I think there's a difference between keeping the property alive and acting like you're trying to keep it alive. Transformers and GI Joe haven't stopped pumping out toys from the get go. Another property you can compare RT to is the HeMan/MOTUC franchise. That's a property they've been constantly trying to keep alive (legitimately) but the years of dead silence in between each effort really hurts it. They too are waiting for the almighty movie to come and save the property. The recent MOTUC merchandise is pretty close to the way Macross is handled. A very successful toy line in limited release but would die in a mass market. Now they're finishing the line with less than popular characters, kinda like the way Yamato did with the custom paint schemes to milk the mold.
technoblue Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 M.A.S.K. is another MIA series of the 1980s. He-Man is a good comparison, but I think G.I. Joe has more of a history with the 12-inch posable figures dating back to the 1960s.
Beltane70 Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 Kawamori Senpai wasn't involved in Macross 2 OAV, Mac 2 manga, or any of the PC Engine games.. Which no one even counts as part of the Macross continuity, so my point stands. However, unlike the AP stuff, Macross 2 and the two PC Engine games at least had Mikimoto, who worked on the original series involved.
terry the lone wolf Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 Which no one even counts as part of the Macross continuity, so my point stands. However, unlike the AP stuff, Macross 2 and the two PC Engine games at least had Mikimoto, who worked on the original series involved. You said EVERY Macross Kawamori was involved with and that's simply not true. Macross 2 is out of Kawamori's continuity yes but that doesn't stop Big West from profiting off of it. Music from Macross 2 was used in Macross 7, Mac 2's Ishstar has been counted with Minmay, Mylene, & Sheryl as a Macross Diva, and Macross 2 was in the Macross Timeline video that was on the Macross Plus Movie Edition..
Legioss Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 This might be somewhat off-topic but, given all the history, I have to wonder why Robotech can't seem to maintain traction like other 80s franchises such as Transformers or G.I. Joe? Transformers, G.I. Joe, and My Little Pony have done better than Robotech because Hasbro makes new toys and new television shows. Harmony Gold on the other hand makes ridiculous lies, lame excuses, and argues with their customers, an inferior product.
EXO Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 M.A.S.K. is another MIA series of the 1980s. He-Man is a good comparison, but I think G.I. Joe has more of a history with the 12-inch posable figures dating back to the 1960s. True... but GI Joe was turned into a cartoon tie-in property in 1985 just like diaclones(1980) and Microman(1974) were turned into Transformers in 1984 after He-Man made a huge splash on TV and toy stores in 1983. In fact, the 1985 G.I. Joe toy line was probably more in spirit with Microman's 3 3/4" figures than the old 12" figures. GI Joe and TF(Hasbro) and Robotech and Voltron(Matchbox) were just the toy companies' way to cash in just like Mattel did with MOTU. Out of those properties, Hasbro was the only company smart enough to keep their lines going... they really don't need the movies to keep making money.They actually can make their own movies with Hasbro Studios.
Guest davidwhangchoi Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 (edited) True... but GI Joe was turned into a cartoon tie-in property in 1985 just like diaclones(1980) and Microman(1974) were turned into Transformers in 1984 after He-Man made a huge splash on TV and toy stores in 1983. In fact, the 1985 G.I. Joe toy line was probably more in spirit with Microman's 3 3/4" figures than the old 12" figures. GI Joe and TF(Hasbro) and Robotech and Voltron(Matchbox) were just the toy companies' way to cash in just like Mattel did with MOTU. what about Carebears, anyone think they will make a comeback? MASK i never knew what the leader's mask did. i only remember the guy in the truck had "lifter" powers. HG was my access to macross when i was a kid now they are the blockers of getting any Macorss blu rays w. english subs. i wish though Akira included Carl Macek's streamline dub on blu ray for the us... Edited August 23, 2013 by davidwhangchoi
SuperSenpai Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 True... but GI Joe was turned into a cartoon tie-in property in 1985 just like diaclones(1980) and Microman(1974) were turned into Transformers in 1984 after He-Man made a huge splash on TV and toy stores in 1983. In fact, the 1985 G.I. Joe toy line was probably more in spirit with Microman's 3 3/4" figures than the old 12" figures. GI Joe and TF(Hasbro) and Robotech and Voltron(Matchbox) were just the toy companies' way to cash in just like Mattel did with MOTU. Out of those properties, Hasbro was the only company smart enough to keep their lines going... they really don't need the movies to keep making money.They actually can make their own movies with Hasbro Studios. The other benefit of Hasbro keeping these franchises going is that they kept getting an influx of newer/younger fans which is vital to a franchise's future. Look at the fanbase of TF or GI Joe -- sure they are a lot of adult fans, but plenty of kids are into them as well thanks to their continual output of toys, comics, and animation over the years. Robotech, on the other hand, is kept alive by a dwindling bunch of dudes in their 30's.
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