ROTK Thread

[Doktor Gonzo]

Here's a pic of Ungoliant.... oh, and keep in mind, the dude in the foreground is Morgoth, who is assumed to be a towering giant, tall enough to crush a man under his heel....

[Abombz!!]

Here's a pic of Ungoliant.... oh, and keep in mind, the dude in the foreground is Morgoth, who is assumed to be a towering giant, tall enough to crush a man under his heel....

Where can I get some stuff about Ungoliant? She seems like a very interesting..... lady.

[JELEINEN]

Saw it at 12:01 this morning as well. As with the other two, most of the visuals are just amazing. The CGI monsters/characters still look like Harryhausen rejects. Here's the thing I don't get: did nobody in the entire time they were filming and editing all three films notice the bad dye jobs on the elves? Their eyebrows not matching the hair on their heads and the natural hair color showing at the roots just looks stupid.

[JELEINEN]

Where can I get some stuff about Ungoliant? She seems like a very interesting..... lady.

From the Silmarillion:

There, beneath the sheer walls of the mountains and the cold dark sea, the shadows were deepest and thickest in the world; and there in Avathar, secret and unknown, Ungoliant had mader he abode.  The Eldar (elves) know not whence she came; but some have said that in ages long before she descended from the darkness that lies about Arda (the Earth), when Melkor (the enemy, later named Morgoth) first looked down in envy upon the Kingdom of Manwë (the chief of the Valar), and that in the beginning she was one of those that he corrupted to his service.  But she had disowned her Master, desiring to be mistress of her own lust, taking all things to herself to feed her emptiness; and she fled to the south, escaping the assults of the Valar and the hunters of Oromë (a Valar), for their vigilance had ever been to the north, and the south was long unheeded.  Thence she had crept towards the light of the Blessed Realm; for she hungered for light and hated it.

In a ravine she lived, and took shape as a spider of monstrous form, weaving her black webs in a cleft of the mountains.  There she sucked up all the light that she could find, and spun it forth again in dark nets of strangling gloom, until no light more could come to her abode, and she was famished.

Edited December 17, 2003 by JELEINEN

[Jemstone]

Hee... isn't it funny that the same people who are most likely to nitpick a film apart are the same ones who line up to see it at midnight?

No, not really. I don't follow you. Still after the climax the ending seems to go on and on. They could have saved some of it for the extended cut.

[Mechmaster]

Where can I get some stuff about Ungoliant? She seems like a very interesting..... lady.

Get hold of a copy of Tolkien's The Silmarillion, it can be a little tough going in places but its well worth the read. You not only get everything there is to know about Ungoliant but the creation of Middle Earth too, along with the stories of Middle Earth's greatest heroes and villains. Most of the characters in The Lord Of The Rings, good and bad, are but pale shadows of their mighty ancestors.

[bsu legato]

Screw the Hobbit, I want to see a 4-hour adaptation of the Silmarilion.

[Abombz!!]

Screw the Hobbit, I want to see a 4-hour adaptation of the Silmarilion.

Heck.... give me 5 minutes of Ungoliant doing something evil over the Hobbit.... anyday!

[JELEINEN]

Screw the Hobbit, I want to see a 4-hour adaptation of the Silmarilion.

You'd need a lot more than that. Four hours might cover Beren and Luthien or Turin Turambor. Actually, if it were me, I wouldn't do the whole Sil. I'd just do Beren and Luthien with a prologue telling of the events that precede that story to bring the audience up to speed.

[1st Border Red Devil]

Screw the Hobbit, I want to see a 4-hour adaptation of the Silmarilion.

Unlikely to happen unfortunately. The stories are too disjointed in many respects. It would work in an 8-hour+ mini-series.

As for Return of the King....for a movie...it was nice. Stunning visual effects...and yes....Im arachnaphobic...and Shelob scarred the poo out of me. And Miranda Otto is in it...a plus any time (screw Liv Tyler....I'd take Eowyn any day over Arwen). BTW...did anyone else think that maybe the two elves reforging Narsil into Anduril could be Elrond's twin son's Elladan and Elrohir? Anyone else notice the fat Rohirrim (Peter Jackson)?

For a Tolkien book....no thanks. Too many problems.

[Blaine23]

Hee... isn't it funny that the same people who are most likely to nitpick a film apart are the same ones who line up to see it at midnight?

No, not really. I don't follow you. Still after the climax the ending seems to go on and on. They could have saved some of it for the extended cut.

I don't disagree with you Jem (I haven't seen the film yet, so I can't) - I was just making a point about fandom in general.

People who love something are the first to see it and usually the first to bash it.

If PJ had cut some of the ending materials, you'd have somebody else dogging it because PJ "cut out the heart" of LotR. Hell, people were already whining about the lack of Saruman in RotK before the movie came out... and that sequence is more anti-climactic than anything that he could have left in the finished film.

People willing to stay up until 4 in the morning on a work night to see a flick are almost certain to be let down somewhat... this is a movie, folks. Not the rapture.

[Deadzone]

Well, I too saw the movie at 12:01 am. Not because I'm a big fan, but my friend bought an extra ticket and needed someone

to go or take the loss. I thought I would help him out since I wanted to see the last one eventually anyway.

I never read any of the books so watching these movies was a completely new experience for me. I was hoping that the

movies would get increasingly better, but I think the overall quality remained the same between the first one to the third one.

I didn't dislike them, but I wasn't as impressed as some of my friends.

The Good:

Like the other two movies, Return of the King has amazing visual effects. The sets, the castle establishing shots, the armies of orcs and humans

all look very real and bring you into the moment. The fighting sequences are well choreographed with multiple parts of action happening in the

foreground and background which punches home the chaos and brutality of a battle. I also got a better sense of the threat of the orcs in this one.

In the previous movies, the orcs were threatening mainly because of their numbers. However, most of them fought with poor skills especially

when fighting the heroes. (I was beginning to think that the dwarf and the elf could stop the whole army by themselves). In the third installment,

I thought the orcs were more menacing partly because they attacked this time with all sorts of strange and imposing creatures. Something

about a fifty foot tall ogre and an airforce of dragons seems scarier than a bunch of guys dressed up in Halloween costumes.

The journey of Frodo, Sam, and Gollum particularly interested me. You knew Gollum would turn on them at some point, but the question was when.

It aslo had a Star Wars feel in how an epic battle was going on while the fate of Middle Earth rested heavily on a small group trying to accomplish their

mission. Return of the Jedi comes to mind. A band of soldiers had to take down the shield before the main force could attack the Death Star.

The parrallel stories allows the movie to intercut between them and keep the pacing going without bogging down the story.

The Bad:

One of the biggest problems I had with Return of the King is the same that I had with all three. The movies seem like they are trying to cram

everything from the books into a three and a half hour movie. Characters, plot lines and such are introduced without proper background

information and development. For people who have read the books, they may think this is fine because they are coming in with a good

knowledge of all the characters and storyline. For a newcomer like me, I felt like the characters didn't really have any sort of an arc. From the first

movie, I found out that the heros were honorable, brave, good fighters, and loyal. In the second second movie, they were honorable,

brave, good fighters, and loyal. Not much has changed in the third one. I don't know what made them this way. They just are. In addition, many of the scenes appear cut short and lack the dramatic effect they could of had because the movie was trying to get through so much information in the allotted 3 and a half hour time frame. So what's the answer. There is a reason books are abridged for movies. Die hard fans would of course complain, but I think for a movie to be really good it has to stand on its own without having to read the books. I have yet to read Mario Puzo's the Godfather, but I love watching that movie over and over again.

Peter Jackson shows that he is skilled in terms of staging action, but he does need to work on directing drama. Several scenes come off as hokey

with the slow motion shots (ie Frodo waking up and all of his buddies joining him on the bed). Some of the writing does not help either. For example, when the evil knight on the dragon comes to kill the king of Rohan, he has been established as one of the deadliest fighters. Then he decides to walk

over to the woman soldier and tell her no man can kill him. Of course, she stabs him and says "I am no man." I can usually predict what will

happen in these types of stories, but when I start predicting the lines the characters will say, something is wrong.

Overall, I think this is probably the best fantasy adventure movie people will see in awhile. It provides all the visuals, kicks, and excitement that most

movie goers want. Also, do yourself a favor and see it in the theaters. I saw the Two Towers on DVD and the visuals and sound just don't have the same effect. Personally, the movie falls short for me because I prefer films that concentrate more on the characters than just moving through the plot with extravagent action sequences. Two of my favorite films are One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and The Shawshank Redemption. So your enjoyment of

this film will rely heavily on what you want out of the movie going experience. My three cents.

[Uxi]

Screw the Hobbit, I want to see a 4-hour adaptation of the Silmarilion.

That's what I'm talking about.

Make it a trilogy. First one is about Feanor and the Silmarils (Iluvatar, Melkor and Valar and the Song and all that can be a summarized intro). Leave the Valar as something grandiose and rarely seen. I have nice visions of what the visuals for Manwe on this throne could be. Melkor killing Feanor and stealing the Simlarils and the Exile of the Noldor. End with the Noldor returning to to Middle Earth and set up the Siege of Angband.

2nd movie about the War against Morgoth. Mostly focusing on the battles of the Noldor against Morgoth. Maybe have the Edain appear towards the end, but in the background. Have the Dagor Bragollach and Morgoth crushing Fingolfin towards the middle. End with the story of Beren and Luthien.

3rd movie have the Edain and Noldor crushed up to the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. Crush everything built up by the heroes in the first. The end of Doriath. Story of Tuor and Idril in the beginning. End (naturally) with Earendil and Elwing and the Great Battle.

[Jolly Rogers]

For example, when the evil knight on the dragon comes to kill the king of Rohan, he has been established as one of the deadliest fighters. Then he decides to walk

over to the woman soldier and tell her no man can kill him. Of course, she stabs him and says "I am no man." I can usually predict what will

happen in these types of stories, but when I start predicting the lines the characters will say, something is wrong.

That scene and line was right out of the book, FYI. Don't fault the filmmakers for sticking to the source.

[Mr March]

It's the next morning (or afternoon as it is) after seeing the Return of the King at its midnight showing.

A great film, without any doubt. I don't want to sound like another like-said opinion, but this third film really is the best of the three. The Battle of Pellennor Fields was truly something to behold. The acting was fantastic and a real treat to see all the cast get some great scenes.

Well, go see it if you haven't and enjoy yourselves! I'll post more when I have time.

[scand]

I saw it early this morning. I had some time to kill after visiting my doctor.

I'm entertained quite easily. So, I found the movie to be pretty good. However, It is the longest damn movie I've ever sat through. The only draw back to the movie was the Tolkien geek sitting behind be that wouldn't shutup. It seems like every theater has one!

The effects are completely awsome. The battle for Minis Tirinth(sp) made Helms deep look like a little skirmish. I agree the ending was a little drawn out but It still felt incomplete. A couple of the characters were omitted. It would have been nice to see them included just for closure's sake. I guess I've gotta wait for the extended version.

In all, compared to other movies I've seen this year, ROTK can't be beat.

[Jolly Rogers]

The only draw back to the movie was the Tolkien geek sitting behind be that wouldn't shutup. It seems like every theater has one!

Note to self: program theater's help desk phone into cell phone before movie starts so I can call and fetch the manager to kick out obnoxious talkers.

[Effect]

I hate when you have a person like that in a movie. Always pointing out the little things, basicly spoiling things for those around them. I don't like yelling at people but I always find myself telling them to shut with complete strangers backing me up. I say if you are ever in that situation say something. More chances then not there are others that are annoyed as well but everyone is waiting for someone to make that first move so they aren't alone.

[JELEINEN]

Bad manners seem to be the norm in theaters. I wish morons would learn to turn off their cell phones and pagers before the film starts. Oh, and leave the kids at home, please.

[Abombz!!]

I doubt they are nearly as bad as a bunch of dumb asses I happened to stumble upon while trying to watch the special edition of Return of the Jedi. Not only did they come in later and start yelling.... but those stupid idiots wouldn't stop laughing! Seriously... when the SW logo showed up 1 of them laughed so hard he had soda coming out of his nose. <_

[red_xavier]

An epic mini-series of The Silmarillion would be great.... to bad it's so closely guarded by Christopher Tolkien - he would never sell while he lives.

[CoryHolmes]

I doubt they are nearly as bad as a bunch of dumb asses I happened to stumble upon while trying to watch the special edition of Return of the Jedi. Not only did they come in later and start yelling.... but those stupid idiots wouldn't stop laughing! Seriously... when the SW logo showed up 1 of them laughed so hard he had soda coming out of his nose.

Reminds me of the twits I had to sit with for SE Star Wars. As soon as Vader came on screen, they started over-wheezing like he did.

I can honestly say that's the first time I've ever lost my temper with a complete stranger in a movie theater.

From the first

movie, I found out that the heros were honorable, brave, good fighters, and loyal. In the second second movie, they were honorable,

brave, good fighters, and loyal. Not much has changed in the third one.

That also comes straight from the novels. They lack, if nothing else, good character development.

[Myersjessee]

I loved it....no reason to pick anything apart....stayed fairly true to the book, good acting, amazing cinematography...wonderful effects. I don't know that I could have expected any more.

[Myersjessee]

For example, when the evil knight on the dragon comes to kill the king of Rohan, he has been established as one of the deadliest fighters. Then he decides to walk

over to the woman soldier and tell her no man can kill him. Of course, she stabs him and says "I am no man." I can usually predict what will

happen in these types of stories, but when I start predicting the lines the characters will say, something is wrong.

That scene and line was right out of the book, FYI. Don't fault the filmmakers for sticking to the source.

I agree!

[J A Dare]

We got those by the truck load here in Brazil...

Do they hangout in the Amazon? Cuz I'll be in the Peruvian side of the jungle in January.

Yes... they do hang out in the Amazon. Don't be worried though, Goliath Tarantulas are as harmless as babies.... unless you are a frog.

Good...cuz I ain't French!

(just kidding French MWers, some of my best friends are French.)

[Deadzone]

For example, when the evil knight on the dragon comes to kill the king of Rohan, he has been established as one of the deadliest fighters. Then he decides to walk

over to the woman soldier and tell her no man can kill him. Of course, she stabs him and says "I am no man." I can usually predict what will

happen in these types of stories, but when I start predicting the lines the characters will say, something is wrong.

That scene and line was right out of the book, FYI. Don't fault the filmmakers for sticking to the source.

Well, Like I said. I never read the books. However, the scene was extremely predictable in terms of what happened. So,

If that is what happened in the book, I will fault the writer.

[Isamu Atreides 86]

just got back from this movie, and evenb though i was vocal about PJ cutting the Scouring of the Shire, i enjoyed this movie. although, what was Merry doing at the battle of the black gates? and why weren't he and Pippin taller than Sam and Frodo? oh well, fanboy raving aside, i enjoyed it.

[JELEINEN]

Well, Like I said. I never read the books.

Your loss

However, the scene was extremely predictable in terms of what happened. So,

If that is what happened in the book, I will fault the writer.

Maybe it just didn't translate as well from print to film. Hard to say because I'd read the book and knew it was going to happen. I do know that it's one of my favorite scenes in the book and it really showed off Tolkien being in touch with mythology.

[JELEINEN]

just got back from this movie, and evenb though i was vocal about PJ cutting the Scouring of the Shire, i enjoyed this movie. although, what was Merry doing at the battle of the black gates? and why weren't he and Pippin taller than Sam and Frodo? oh well, fanboy raving aside, i enjoyed it.

Is the part with them drinking the Ent draught in the extended edition? If it's not, then the reason for them to be taller wasn't in the movies.

[Noriko Takaya]

I just got home from seeing it tonight. I like it. I thought it was a really good movie. And that is my two cents worth.

[Mr March]

Well, Like I said. I never read the books. However, the scene was extremely predictable in terms of what happened. So,

If that is what happened in the book, I will fault the writer.

This is one of the problems adapting works out of their time and I don't think anyone can really be faulted for it. Lord of the Rings was written well before our modern era of mass production popular culture. Lord of the Rings is one of the works (like many greats of literature) that inspires filmmakers, writers, and producers to make films that utilize its successful elements. Growing up with thousands of films and television series that use such classic works and their context means that we've been bombarded by a hundred other stories that have already used a similar scene.

Hence, the scene in ROTK faultlessly becomes cliched because of the prior propagation of lesser works using Tolkien in homage.

[Jolly Rogers]

Is the part with them drinking the Ent draught in the extended edition? If it's not, then the reason for them to be taller wasn't in the movies.

Yes, and the result shows. The commentary track does indicate that they try to have a level of consistency between the theatrical and EE cuts so people seeing one version won't need to have prior knowledge of a previous film from the other edition. Therefore the scene involving Sam's use of Elvish rope in the opening of TTT was cut in the theatrical cut since the gift giving wasn't shown in the theatrical cut of FOTR.

They might "size up" Merry and Pippin for the extended edition of ROTK, but then again, they only grew a few inches taller in the movie, the growth wasn't as dramatic as in the book.

[eriku]

Ahhh....it's after midnight and I just crawled out of the theater. I can't say ROTK is my favorite of the three, but that's because I view tham all as one movie so I don't really separate them. It was everything I expected it to be, which is to say, magnificent. I've always had a hard time picking a 'favorite movie of all time', but not any more. LOTR wins by a landslide.

Some of my favorite parts:

-Eowyn slaying the fell beast (I'll admit, Eowyn is my favorite non-hobbit character)

-Legolas taking down the Mumakil (the whole theater applauded!)

-Pippin singing (really moved me for some reason)

-Shelob sneaking up on Frodo and giving him one nice jab (I knew it was coming, but it still surprised me)

-Sam going after Rosie at the bar (The man knows what he wants!)

I didn't think the ending was too drawn out, but I can understand where some might think that. Personally, I could have sat there for another three hours.

[MrDisco]

WOW. that was simply the most incredible film(s) i have seen ever.

[Effect]

I keep hearing nothing but good things about this movie. I've actually held off on reading Return of the King till I saw the movie since I wanted to read more of the detail later. Actually for some strange reason I read the first two long before I heard about the movie but never really got around to the 3rd. I really hope I can see this by Friday or Monday so I can start reading.