Hikuro Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/harmony-gold-files-lawsuit-over-sdcc-2013-gi-joe-transformers-crossover-set/27979/ "#perdeu#HG" Hasbro will win that one. Quote
Hoptimus Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 I can see how maybe very slightly they could say that as an F-14 based toy looks like a VF-1 that is also based on an F-14 but really? Idiots. http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/07/23/59597.htm Quote
azrael Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 Yes, it got mention earlier. http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=36540&p=1063964 But since this toy is the offending piece of plastic, talk of this case should go here. And as I alluded to in the other thread, HG has now managed to piss off Macross, Mechwarrior and Hasbro fans now. Can't wait till Mattel gets some HG-love. Quote
Einherjar Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 I can see how maybe very slightly they could say that as an F-14 based toy looks like a VF-1 that is also based on an F-14 but really? Idiots. http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/07/23/59597.htm Yes, it got mention earlier. http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=36540&p=1063964 But since this toy is the offending piece of plastic, talk of this case should go here. And as I alluded to in the other thread, HG has now managed to piss off Macross, Mechwarrior and Hasbro fans now. Can't wait till Mattel gets some HG-love. They should sue Northrop Grumman while they're at it, just to be sure! Quote
David Hingtgen Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 I think this is great news. Hasbro is AFAIL the largest company HG has decided to mess with so far. Hasbro's got serious money and lawyer-power. The best possible result is that Hasbro goes all-out and utterly destroys HG, or at least somehow nullifies a good chunk of their licensing/rights/power within the US regarding Macross. Unlikely, though it'd be nice. Quote
TheLoneWolf Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/harmony-gold-files-lawsuit-over-sdcc-2013-gi-joe-transformers-crossover-set/27979/ "#perdeu#HG" This is a very strange and questionable move by Harmony Gold. I say "strange" because they're attempting to file an injuction against a San Diego Comic-Con exclusive toy. Since Comic-Con 2013 is over, filing an injuction is moot as the toys have already been sold. That is, unless Hasbro has announced that they're going to continue to sell Jetfire beyond SDCC? Do any TF fans know for sure? Second, I think it's questionable because Hasbro has altered the white/red/black color scheme enough so that it only bears a passing resemblance to the original Jetfire toy. There's no mathematical formula to determine how much copying is allowed before it can be determined that a design has been infringed. It usually boils down to this: would a layman confuse the two products? Unless the design is a spitting image of the original, you're just rolling the dice. Further complicating Harmony Gold's case is that the original G.I. Joe Skystriker XP-14F toy also bore a similar white/red/black color scheme. The only two potential snags I see for Hasbro are the predominantly red boosters and the optional leg stickers. Though, it's important to remember that the boosters were an optional configuration on the original Jetfire. He could also be displayed in plain fighter mode. And the leg stickers are entirely optional on both toys, so I won't give that one too much weight either. As for both planes' F-14 likeness, that's not copyrightable design. I don't see any logic behind Harmony Gold's decision making. The San Diego Comic-Con is over. Their trade dress argument is iffy at best. And Hasbro has way more money to spend on attorneys than Harmony Gold does. Just doesn't add up. Quote
EXO Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 2 words Free Advertising True, but it's also a dumb move considering they're probably alienating a large part of their own fanbase. It's not like people that are fans of robotech has never heard of G.I Joe or Transformers but on the flipside, a lot of the fans of the two series don't give a crap about Robotech. And I wouldn't exactly call it "free" if they lose against Hasbro's much larger legal team that could cost them more money than they would get from an exclusive toy sold at one event. (Hopefully.) I mean... I'm wondering at this point who's left on HG's side and what do they have to gain from it? More Valkyrie pillow sales? Quote
locidm Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 Ha, so this is where the HG discussion is at! Thanks david for pointing me here. Quote
Einherjar Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 If they only put as much effort in everything else in their franchise as they do threatening legal action against anyone they perceive as infringing on their legal rights... Getting back on topic, it looks like a decent toy, but not something I would sue over. Quote
Valkyrie addict Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 I'd like a whiff of what HG is smoking! unbelievable! Well, I hope Hasbro completely destroys HG for Big West reacquired somehow the Macross license out of Japan. One can only dream. Quote
Greyryder Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 Hasbro decides to just buy Harmony Gold outright, and create its own line of Macross toys. Yeah, and then I woke up.... Quote
azrael Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 Ha, so this is where the HG discussion is at! Thanks david for pointing me here. Not really. HG and Macross finished a long time ago. This is a brand new game. This is a very strange and questionable move by Harmony Gold. I say "strange" because they're attempting to file an injuction against a San Diego Comic-Con exclusive toy. Since Comic-Con 2013 is over, filing an injuction is moot as the toys have already been sold. That is, unless Hasbro has announced that they're going to continue to sell Jetfire beyond SDCC? Do any TF fans know for sure?... I don't see any logic behind Harmony Gold's decision making. The San Diego Comic-Con is over. Their trade dress argument is iffy at best. And Hasbro has way more money to spend on attorneys than Harmony Gold does. Just doesn't add up. Considering this is a SDCC exclusive, there's not a lot of money from selling this. How many did they sell at SDCC? Does Hasbro plan on selling it again? Quote
Chronocidal Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 What I don't get is why they seem to forget that there was a previous Jetfire remake that was pretty much entirely the same thing, but they never bothered to cry foul then. Also, wow. Quote
Einherjar Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2013-07-24/harmony-gold-sues-hasbro-for-copyright-infringement-over-toy HG's demands remind me of the LG and Sony patent lawsuit a couple of years ago where the former wanted ban all PS3 sales in the US and Europe. The demands there also sounded totally unreasonable: The company is asking the court for the following: for Hasbro to stop selling, marketing, and distributing "unauthorized toys or other projects" based on Harmony Gold's copyrighted works; for Hasbro to deliver all toys or other products in their possession that violate the copyright; for Hasbro to be required to recall the toys from "any person or entity known to them who purchased or received" copies of the infringing products; for Hasbro to be "required to account for all gains, profits and advantages derived from their acts of infringement;" and for Hasbro to pay Harmony Gold the damages suffered from the infringements, any profits attributed to the sale or distribution of the products, exemplary damages, prejudgement interest, lawsuit costs, attorneys' fees, and any other relief the court deems appropriate. Edited July 25, 2013 by Einherjar Quote
EXO Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 There's a great possibility that this will never even get to court. HG just has to prove once and a while that they're around to protect their property in case they ever go back to court against someone like Big West. They also have to make some toys and shows once and a while also to prove that the license is being used actively. It doesn't have to be good, it just has to be done... Quote
David Hingtgen Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 Yeah, require Hasbro to demand the toys back from everyone who bought them at the Con, that'll happen... Quote
Godzilla Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 Well for those who didnt go to SDCC, they are waiting for Hasbro Toy Store to sell the leftovers and Hasbro has yet to post them in their store. Meanwhile, that exclusive is going for $200+ on ebay since the news hit the web. Quote
Beltane70 Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 There's a great possibility that this will never even get to court. HG just has to prove once and a while that they're around to protect their property in case they ever go back to court against someone like Big West. They also have to make some toys and shows once and a while also to prove that the license is being used actively. It doesn't have to be good, it just has to be done... I have to wonder, though, what are the chances of Hasbro's original rights to distribute the VF-1 as Jetfire still being valid? Quote
EXO Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 I have to wonder, though, what are the chances of Hasbro's original rights to distribute the VF-1 as Jetfire still being valid? They'd be reissuing the crap out of it like they reissued all the G1s. I'm pretty sure they never renewed that license from Tatsanuko or Bandai. Quote
skullmilitia Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 Look if the design of the toy, is close enough to have consumer's recognizing it as another brand, it's in violation. Hasbro doesn't own the right to the main look of the Robotech veritech fighter. Hasbro only has the rights to the name "Jetfire". and.. really, the Hasbro / Marvel productions Jetfire character looks nothing like the 1980's branded toy. So Hasbro has a lot to disprove, I think they will settle. HG definitely has the right, and they should easily win if it goes to court. Well for those who didnt go to SDCC, they are waiting for Hasbro Toy Store to sell the leftovers and Hasbro has yet to post them in their store. Meanwhile, that exclusive is going for $200+ on ebay since the news hit the web. HTS isn't going to sell them, the left over's were sold to Fun Publications who owns the Gijoe and Transformers Collector Clubs. They are having a lottery to allow members only to purchase the remaining sets. Quote
David Hingtgen Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 The Skystriker still looks a whole lot more like the F-14 it's directly based on, than a VF-1. Quote
skullmilitia Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 Doesn't matter, it's not the Jet that matters, it's the colors, the placement, the general overall artistic look. tell me this isn't nearly an exact copy artisticly... Remember, a Judge / Jury has to say, they can definitely tell it's a different character.. yeah right. Quote
EXO Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 YEah, but that's Jetfire... HG's claim is that it's too close to Macross, meaning it's too closeto Hikaru's DYRL scheme... which Hasbro already avoided by changing it to the red FPs and reversed placement of the stripes back in the 80s. HG has no claim over the Jetfire scheme. Quote
skullmilitia Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 You're looking at too many small things that don't matter. All HG has to do to prove violation, is to show that it would confuse a consumer. If you had both of the above on a store shelf, would it confuse the casual shopper. it's obviously yes. IP law is not just small things, it also covers marketplace confusion buy artistic representation. Quote
areaseven Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 Why did HG wait until Comic-Con was over to sue Hasbro when the toy was announced months earlier? Quote
skullmilitia Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 I doubt HG pays attention to the toys sites, they probably noticed them at Comic Con. People walking around with them ect. Quote
EXO Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 Argument is moot anyway.... we'll never find out because it's never going to court. Like I said, HG will take a dollar in private settlement just to show they're actively protecting their property. Quote
anime52k8 Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) I don't even know what to make of this thread or some of the posts in it. Edited July 25, 2013 by anime52k8 Quote
Omega Prime Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 Why did HG wait until Comic-Con was over to sue Hasbro when the toy was announced months earlier? And why did HG happen to sue the day that they released Love Live Alive? Someone pointed out "Advertising" and considering they haven't gone out of their way to advertise that, does make it seem a bit too coincidental! You're looking at too many small things that don't matter. All HG has to do to prove violation, is to show that it would confuse a consumer. If you had both of the above on a store shelf, would it confuse the casual shopper. it's obviously yes. IP law is not just small things, it also covers marketplace confusion buy artistic representation. Just out of curiousity, would the fact Hasbro got the license from Bandai to make Jetfire before Robotech aired have any weight? Quote
skullmilitia Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 And why did HG happen to sue the day that they released Love Live Alive? Someone pointed out "Advertising" and considering they haven't gone out of their way to advertise that, does make it seem a bit too coincidental! Just out of curiousity, would the fact Hasbro got the license from Bandai to make Jetfire before Robotech aired have any weight? No, because Hasbro doesn't own that license anymore. All they have is the trademark on Jetfire, but that's not IP. When Hasbro licensed the Bandai mold, it was licensing Bandai's License for the IP from Big West. It's the one character that they didn't own IP wise as the toy. Even if Hasbro tried to say, they owned Jetfire IP, from the old Hasbro/MarvelP cartoon, that version was completely different, so that argument would fall flat. Quote
EXO Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 I don't even know what to make of this thread or some of the posts in it. Oh please... don't stop there... grace us with you're valuable insight. Quote
azrael Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 Argument is moot anyway.... we'll never find out because it's never going to court. Like I said, HG will take a dollar in private settlement just to show they're actively protecting their property. Only way this would go to court is if they drive the mediator crazy. The more cases that are settled out of court, the less grumpy the judge will be. And since HG is the plaintiff, the burden of proof is on them to show that Hasbro committed a violation of their trademark. If HG wins, you expect Hasbro reclaim all those toys they sold at SDCC? Really? Quote
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