MW appreciation

[Saruta]

As a new member and newbie in the Macross franchise (albeit very much not newbie in anime in general), I found no better place than this to express admiration for the high class of this Forum.

I mean, members in Japan, people who actually know stuff replying about it... and to top it all - NO SHIPPING WARS (at least none I could find, and this time I did do a search). That last one is an impossibility anywhere else people talk about Frontier. And yes even after movies settled the issue. Elsewhere, one can also find good information sometimes (notably piecemeal retelling/translation of Frontier novels at http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=88876 ) - but it is always, including the linked page, interspersed with the dreaded shipping war that would probably embarass the characters to no end if they were real.

The place rocks, way to go, thanks a lot! And sorry for the newbie questions (but everyone is a newbie sometimes).

[VF5SS]

The only shipping wars we have around these parts is EMS vs. FedEx :3

[Benson13]

What does a shipping war mean?

[VF5SS]

It's when people argue over which characters should be in a relationship.

Which is most of Macross.

[Benson13]

That's pretty stupid. Welcome to the wallet emptying world of Macross Saruta.

[Saruta]

Even the "wallet emptying" part is done in a certain style on this forum. "Macross figures" here mean mecha. As opposed to cute little Rankas. And yes, point taken - "shipping wars" here means FedEx vs EMS (and whatever you use to ship from Japan?) - as opposed to Alto/Sheryl vs Alto/Ranka (with a good deal of Sheryl/Ranka and "all three together", though these two options are apparently the peacemaking ones).

For details about shipping wars generally: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShipToShipCombat

I have probably found out some of the secret, though. I don't know how the admins bribed Google, but while "Macross forum" brings MW up as the first link, "Macross Frontier forum" does not include it in the first three pages! So one has to be interested in the full franchise, not just Frontier, to locate the place. And the ship war fodder is concentrated in Frontier apparently. SDFM is way too clear about it, with half the main cast (or thereabout) shipping Hikaru/Misa before it even happens. (Well that's how it seems now - but TVTropes says that in times past Hikaru/Misa fans actually HATED Minmay, which is... well... didn't she take enough in canon already to leave her alone? Perhaps the old timers here can explain how on earth that stuff could happen)

Oh, and terminology clarification for the happy (really) Benson who asked. "Shipping A/B" means, in modern fandom parlance, "believing that A and B should be in a romantic/sexual relationship", and then either supporting it with canon or deciding to ignore canon... or deciding what's canon and what's not (Frontier TV canon, Frontier Movies made as fan service for Sheryl fans who have more money and this is why Kawamori who really prefers Ranka gave them Alto choosing Sheryl - yes, this appears to be an existing view).

[Gubaba]

For details about shipping wars generally: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShipToShipCombat

Huh. I actually got a mention (not by name, though) in the "Die for Our Ship" entry ( http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DieForOurShip/AnimeAndManga )... That's kinda cool.

The Fan Dumb got to the point where a formerly well-respected member of a non-English speaking forum actually made up supposed facts to make the impression that one of the creators supported Alto/Sheryl over Alto/Ranka. This was generally seen as fact until members of a different forum got suspicious, tracked down the supposed magazine where the information came from and found out that it was all a lie. (A FAQ with a summary of the events can be found here.)

[VF5SS]

You're internet famous!

[Gubaba]

You're internet famous!

I know, right...? Color me THRILLED!!

[anime52k8]

Huh. I actually got a mention (not by name, though) in the "Die for Our Ship" entry ( http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DieForOurShip/AnimeAndManga )... That's kinda cool.

good times man, good times.

[Gubaba]

good times man, good times.

Not for me, overall, but I'm glad you liked 'em...

[Renato]

Even the "wallet emptying" part is done in a certain style on this forum. "Macross figures" here mean mecha. As opposed to cute little Rankas. And yes, point taken - "shipping wars" here means FedEx vs EMS (and whatever you use to ship from Japan?) - as opposed to Alto/Sheryl vs Alto/Ranka (with a good deal of Sheryl/Ranka and "all three together", though these two options are apparently the peacemaking ones).

For details about shipping wars generally: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShipToShipCombat

I have probably found out some of the secret, though. I don't know how the admins bribed Google, but while "Macross forum" brings MW up as the first link, "Macross Frontier forum" does not include it in the first three pages! So one has to be interested in the full franchise, not just Frontier, to locate the place. And the ship war fodder is concentrated in Frontier apparently. SDFM is way too clear about it, with half the main cast (or thereabout) shipping Hikaru/Misa before it even happens. (Well that's how it seems now - but TVTropes says that in times past Hikaru/Misa fans actually HATED Minmay, which is... well... didn't she take enough in canon already to leave her alone? Perhaps the old timers here can explain how on earth that stuff could happen)

Oh, and terminology clarification for the happy (really) Benson who asked. "Shipping A/B" means, in modern fandom parlance, "believing that A and B should be in a romantic/sexual relationship", and then either supporting it with canon or deciding to ignore canon... or deciding what's canon and what's not (Frontier TV canon, Frontier Movies made as fan service for Sheryl fans who have more money and this is why Kawamori who really prefers Ranka gave them Alto choosing Sheryl - yes, this appears to be an existing view).

The main reason why MW tends to stay away from all that is that it is mostly made up of old-school fans, who grew up with the original series, and favour realistic military action/hardcore sci-fi elements over others. You will see that the underlying trend is that SDF Macross / DYRL are quite respected and loved, Plus is considered cool and 7 is love-or-hate. Frontier is in generally appreciated because of its action, design, music and nods to the original series, but not so much for its characters or their relations, nor school setting -- again, painting in broad strokes.

This may reflect somewhat of a disconnect with the tastes of younger generations of anime fan. It seems to work for the purposes of MW, though.

Oh, and terminology clarification for the happy (really) Benson who asked. "Shipping A/B" means, in modern fandom parlance, "believing that A and B should be in a romantic/sexual relationship", and then either supporting it with canon or deciding to ignore canon... or deciding what's canon and what's not (Frontier TV canon, Frontier Movies made as fan service for Sheryl fans who have more money and this is why Kawamori who really prefers Ranka gave them Alto choosing Sheryl - yes, this appears to be an existing view).

Wait, what??

[antibiotictab]

For Saruta.

"NO SHIPPING WARS" was the most seductive thing for me, so I joined in this web site last year.

Renato taught me about the word "shipping" just 2 months ago, and it was what I have hated for a long time. I thought it was so foolish, but some fans in Japan psychotically, and wackily abuse the characters in Macross they hate; especially and mainly Ranka Lee in MF. They want Alto/ Sheryl, and bullshit is all around the Macross communities in Japan. They even have spoken ill of Megumi Nakajima too much, on the other hand, have mixed up May'n and Sheryl Nome, and praise her too much.

Well, I met Save on the last Sunday and he said about a part of it. At first, I was surprised because what he thought was almost the same thing that I have been thinking about, but later, I took it for granted because I remembered those wackos' attitude.

I really, really, REALLY hated those kinds of the shipping things!!!

In Japanese, "shipping" is so called, 「カプ厨」; "the adolescent too much delusions about the couple they want" or some sort. What is worse, even some mature-looking fans are so adolescent-like and kiddy in talking about the shipping things...

In the end, I kicked their asses out of the f*cking and cu*ty communities and came here...

Wait, what??

You have been so lucky. Seems you've never read “2 Channel,” 「２ちゃんねる」 before. There are 「ランカ・リーアンチスレ」「シェリル総合アンチ＆ヲチスレ」「シェリルとランカなぜ差がついたのか？」「中島愛アンチスレ」「May'n（メイン）アンチスレ」 and so on...

Some Sheryl fans had shamelessly said that, “We are the majorities among the MF fans. We are mature, can earn and have spent much money for Sheryl, so good consumers for the staffs. Not like Ranka fans. They are kiddy, virgin, creepy, and poor otaku boys, huh? If Kawamori and the others betrayed us, we would definitely behave violently !!!” just before the “Sayonara no Tsubasa” screening in the thread.

I wondered if “mature” people really “behave violently” or not. I don't know and who knows?...

Saruta, welcome. I want to say it from the bottom of my heart. Those are what I have wanted to say for a long time.

そして日本にいるキャラ厨、カプ厨ども。お前らは滅びろ。ﾀﾋれ。

http://www42.atwiki.jp/ranchi/
http://www21.atwiki.jp/anti_s/

[Renato]

You have been so lucky. Seems you've never read “2 Channel,” 「２ちゃんねる」 before. There are 「ランカ・リーアンチスレ」「シェリル総合アンチ＆ヲチスレ」「シェリルとランカなぜ差がついたのか？」「中島愛アンチスレ」「May'n（メイン）アンチスレ」 and so on...

Some Sheryl fans had shamelessly said that, “We are the majorities among the MF fans. We are mature, can earn and have spent much money for Sheryl, so good consumers for the staffs. Not like Ranka fans. They are kiddy, virgin, creepy, and poor otaku boys, huh? If Kawamori and the others betrayed us, we would definitely behave violently !!!” just before the “Sayonara no Tsubasa” screening in the thread.

I wondered if “mature” people really “behave violently” or not. I don't know and who knows?...

Yeah, I have read 2channel, but I didn't know about those specific topics... Wow. What intrigues me the most, though, is the concept of "competitively spending money" on characters.

[Major Focker]

next thing you know, they'd be crowd-funding the next macross series to monetize that concept...

Ranka rules! Sheryl sucks!

[Tochiro]

I must admit, the 'Sheryl fans paying more money' idea is new to me too and mind-boggling in its ridiculousness.

Just remember that 2-chan is the scum of the internet and no-one takes them seriously. Makes me glad I only familiar/interact with real-life Japanese Macross fans - none of whom have anything to do with that sort of rubbish but all of whom love and actively support the franchise.
Besides which, I find that Alto fans are the ones who spend the most money and time obsessing - the problem is they are actually under-catered to, merchandise-wise.

And all the shipping wars stuff is rubbish anyway, because Kawamori himself has come straight out and said who he prefers. And he was directly in front of me when he said it.
The man is a Grace fan.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Tochiro

[azrael]

And all the shipping wars stuff is rubbish anyway, because Kawamori himself has come straight out and said who he prefers. And he was directly in front of me when he said it.

Funny, I thought the man subscribed to the concept of multiple wives...

[Gubaba]

Funny, I thought the man subscribed to the concept of multiple wives...

I think you've been SHALOOMED...

[azrael]

I think you've been SHALOOMED...

Well back during M0's unveiling (which I was in the crowd for when he came to promote Arjuna(?) in the USA), he was a subscriber to that concept. I don't know if he's changed from that stance since then. It has been more than 10 years since that day...

[Gubaba]

Well back during M0's unveiling (which I was in the crowd for when he came to promote Arjuna(?) in the USA), he was a subscriber to that concept. I don't know if he's changed from that stance since then. It has been more than 10 years since that day...

Really? He came out and SAID that...? Okay, I stand corrected...

[azrael]

Really? He came out and SAID that...? Okay, I stand corrected...

During the QA, someone asked whom he liked more, Misa or Minmay. He responded that during his research for M0, he found out one could have multiple wives. As I said, I don't know if he has changed his stance since then. That was also same Macross panel where he came up with his infamous quote God-knows-what-happened-to-Megaroad-01 response.

[antibiotictab]

I must admit, the 'Sheryl fans paying more money' idea is new to me too and mind-boggling in its ridiculousness.

Just remember that 2-chan is the scum of the internet and no-one takes them seriously. Makes me glad I only familiar/interact with real-life Japanese Macross fans - none of whom have anything to do with that sort of rubbish but all of whom love and actively support the franchise.

Believe it or not, you decide.

And all the shipping wars stuff is rubbish anyway, because Kawamori himself has come straight out and said who he prefers. And he was directly in front of me when he said it.

The man is a Grace fan.

?

Out of focus. It has nothing to do with his taste at all.

He belongs to the company and furthermore, one of the executive. Not only an artist. Business is business.

[Saruta]

Thanks for the information, Tochiro! But, preferring someone is one thing, shipping her with Alto is another. Even if he is a Grace fan, I somehow doubt Alto/Grace is what he had in mind? (Is she a shotacon?!) Also I wonder - when he said it, was the context the TV series or movies? The Grace character is significantly different between these two?

Also - Alto fans? Very interesting. Are they male or female? I never met one. For Western audiences, as far as I could understand, Alto is generally seen as rather bland. But perhaps there is some cultural difference involved? Or are they mecha fans who pick a pilot if they just have to pick a main character? I would really like to understand how this works.

antibiotictab: than you very much fo rthe welcome and for the enlightenment on what goes on in 2ch. And it's really sad if the "movie
ending is money based" version is true. I thought it was a rather desperate Ranka-fan version. I did not know Sheryl fans in Japan were like that.

The preferring vs. shipping thing is also the part I don't understand about the, specifically, Ranka fandom. I mean, "girl grows up" is not exactly a new theme in art. And it often includes learning to leave an adolescent crush behind. If she does not get Alto, so what? She saved the world, gained her adulthood and the respect of the star who she looked up to at the start. Also, Ranka is arguably a new step in human evolution (that last one even Minmay could not boast). She has left behind being an adolescent, and notably helps her rival Sheryl survive - this stays, albeit in different ways, in both the series and the movie - showing a level of maturity quite beyond her age. What's not to love and why does one require Alto-hime in the mix?

Why Sheryl fans would bash the girl who saved Sheryl's life is also way beyond my limited understanding. I have not actually seen this happen, but then I don't understand Japanese and therefore can not read 2ch. (I actually was mentioned a few times on the place, under this same nickname, as I played some role in pulling sane forces together during the "Save Miku" debacle).

And sorry, but reading *Major Focker* say "Ranka rules, Sheryl sucks"... I do believe you about Sheryl, Major. But Ranka a dominatrix? Wow, that's new.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Saruta

[Major Focker]

you're seriously not taking my remark at face value, right? i was merely being tongue in cheek (see my avatar), and poking fun at the shipping wars that did happen here, albeit less protracted than in other forums. rules starts with "R" and sucks with "S", and so for Ranka and Sheryl respectively. nothing more to it.

those shipping debates were crazy times. despite being a Sheryl fan, i found the Ranka hate back then just utterly baffling

[Saruta]

I was reinterpreting your remark in light of the well known traits of a certain Major Roy Fokker, for whom "sucks" likely has a very different meaning, especially when spoken about such a beauty (not exactly projecting an air of purity, either) as Sheryl! That interpretation does make Ranka a dominatrix though.

[Mr March]

Ah, the Shaloom fiasco. Not exactly Macross fandom's finest hour

[r_hunter85]

At the end Alto says something like you're both my wings and I can't fly without either of you. He never makes a decision right? I kind of got the impression he was going to bang 'em both and they seemed cool with that.

[anime52k8]

At the end Alto says something like you're both my wings and I can't fly without either of you. He never makes a decision right? I kind of got the impression he was going to bang 'em both and they seemed cool with that.

Maybe Polygamy and lolicon are socially acceptable activities in the future? you don't know.

[r_hunter85]

Maybe Polygamy and lolicon are socially acceptable activities in the future? you don't know.

I find those to be reoccurring themes in many anime (or at least in my favorites). Plus aren't they all about the same age? lol

I say to each their own. Its an ancient debate: " To bang or not to bang. That is the Question." -Will.I.Am Shakeaspear

[Gubaba]

At the end Alto says something like you're both my wings and I can't fly without either of you. He never makes a decision right? I kind of got the impression he was going to bang 'em both and they seemed cool with that.

You should watch the movies.

[r_hunter85]

I've seen all the episodes. I really enjoyed it. I was just making a joke.

Is there a movie as well? Like a DYRL for Frontier?

[EXO]

There's 2 movies: False Songstress and Wings of Goodbye.

[r_hunter85]

There's 2 movies: False Songstress and Wings of Goodbye.

Yeah I immediately looked them up after that last post. I'm trying to see if I can find them online somewhere either to stream or purchase. I feel like a super noob not knowing there were movies. I'm stoked to watch them. The series was really good.

[anime52k8]

You should watch the movies.

I feel bad that I've got both movies but I haven't actually watched either of them.

[r_hunter85]

I feel bad that I've got both movies but I haven't actually watched either of them.

For shame, sir. For shame.