Star Wars Rebels - animated series

[ArchieNov]

I personally hated how they resolved the Vader-Ahsoka conflict. It felt very un-Vader like to me if that was how their duel ended.

[Dynaman]

I personally hated how they resolved the Vader-Ahsoka conflict. It felt very un-Vader like to me if that was how their duel ended.

We don't really see how it ended, Vader and Ahsoka resume the fight and only Vader walks out.

They stuck with the tradition (limited as it is) that when you can see Vader's actual face a part of his humanity is freed as well.

[Dobber]

We don't really see how it ended, Vader and Ahsoka resume the fight and only Vader walks out.

They stuck with the tradition (limited as it is) that when you can see Vader's actual face a part of his humanity is freed as well.

But,

They both walked away from the fight. As I pointed out earlier, Filoni claims it is open to interpretation, but Ahsoka is clearly seen walking down into the temple just after we see the "Owl" thing fly away. No interpretation necessary. If we didn't see her I could buy that, but that is not the case here.

Chris

Edited April 3, 2016 by Dobber

[SchizophrenicMC]

But,

They both walked away from the fight. As I pointed out earlier, Filoni claims it is open to interpretation, but Ahsoka is clearly seen walking down into the temple just after we see the "Owl" thing fly away. No interpretation necessary. If we didn't see her I could buy that, but that is not the case here.

Chris

Wouldn't be the first time we saw a Force ghost, just saying.

[Dangard Ace]

Wouldn't be the first time we saw a Force ghost, just saying.

agreed not the first time but they kept hammering down the fact that Ahsoka is not a Jedi even just before the fight so she's technically not on Vaders list. Could be her could be her force ghost.

[Dobber]

Wouldn't be the first time we saw a Force ghost, just saying.

I agree, and thought of that too...

though the entire saga has made it pretty clear that that was not a common thing and that not even Yoda could do it until Qui-Gon communed with him. Yes, it could be her Force Ghost, but by showing her it made it a little too on the nose rather than being the intentional "open to interpretation" that Filoni has stated. Plus she didn't appear very Ghost like...ie no shimmer or opaqueness. Though I do admit it is a very quick glimps.

Chris

[Negotiator]

i took it that she lived. Wouldn't her death be more dramatic? Since they're throwing Maul in there, maybe they can squeeze Ventress in because fvck her fate in the comics.

[Tking22]

I liked the finale for the most part, the inconsistency with you-know-who's fate was lame. Don't show me that little bit at the end and then have the show runner or creator or whoever make it more vague and confusing as to said character's fate. As for the Old Master still being alive, I don't mind it, I like the character, so more of him works for me. He actually got fleshed out and became interesting in Clone Wars.

[TangledThorns]

It's gonna be interesting to see if Maul is ever actually killed. Especially since he survived falling down a bottomless shaft after being cut in half

[kalvasflam]

As the old saw goes... doesn't anyone stay dead any more?

It seems that they cannot meaningfully kill a character until the movie does it. Because there is always a chance for the next show.... I suppose that's what you get for continuity.

One thing I wouldn't mind is seeing Rex get it. May be Whinny can put down Rex... give him a soldier's death.

[Dobber]

As the old saw goes... doesn't anyone stay dead any more?

It seems that they cannot meaningfully kill a character until the movie does it. Because there is always a chance for the next show.... I suppose that's what you get for continuity.

One thing I wouldn't mind is seeing Rex get it. May be Whinny can put down Rex... give him a soldier's death.

Don't count on it. Look back at the previous page.

Chris

[Black Valkyrie]

Didn't like it when they brought back prequel / CW elements in it.

[JetJockey]

I haven't really been watching this show. Just an episode or two out of curiosity or when it seemed interesting. However when I saw a news story about the final episode being called

Twilight of the Apprentice

, I hated hearing that. I didn't want to watch it. But I saw it was on demand and because I'm a curious person watched it.

I really wanted them to leave Ahsoka out of it from the beginning. The ending in the Clone Wars cartoon wasn't the best. But at least she survived and they didn't need to kill her off as a lame attempt to clear everything up to match with A New Hope. Things won't match with A New Hope any more after the prequels. If they really want to do something they should remake the prequels.

Also, like many have said those helicopter lightsabers suck.

I agree for the most part, but it was still satisfying to see so many things get tied up into one big crazy knot. Especially the Ahsoka-Vader stuff. And, was it just me, or did they really step up the facial animation a notch for that climax scene?

By the way, I can't recall- was that the first time Ahsoka actually called Anakin, "Anakin" to his face? I won't lie, I got a chill at that.

But it's not tied up well and never will be because there are now too many cooks in the kitchen. Stories that come off like fan fiction. There was a post on Birth Movies Death about it. How it's all fan fiction now. Stuff like

Darth Maul being alive because people like the character so much. I remember originally reading a fan fiction comic by the Lucas Film artists with him surviving with mech spider legs, I believe Sideshow Toys or some company made a statue of it. Now Maul's alive in this episode.

The design of the planet and those close up frame shots near the end were the best thing about the episode. But it's Ahsoka, she's a cool character, and pretty iconic in those shots.

Yeah, it was the first time. Leaving that confrontation unresolved is so anticlimactic and totally kills the emotion that scene was building up. Filoni himself has said that these non-OT Force users are all going to have to die, and sometime soon. But they're going to keep throwing them out there as long as there is a demand for more episodes and more seasons. They're just going to drag it out.

They don't have to die anymore. No more than Padme had to die or all the Jedi needed to be killed in Episode 3. I don't follow Star Wars stuff that much anymore, I still haven't seen The Force Awakens, but many Jedi survived after Episode 3 and in the comics. Even Ahsoka said in the episode, I'm not a Jedi anymore. There can be Force users out there but just not calling themselves Jedi. Which is silly in a way but that's the mess that was created with the Prequels and other stories. Being a Jedi now is like being a soldier. You aren't a soldier if you leave the army. Even though I always thought from the original movies that being a Jedi was more than that.

Oh, and what's with

Vader fighting with both hands on his lightsaber? Where is his arrogance and the confidence he usually shows in his one-handed dueling style?

Vader's characterization has changed so much it's best not to even get into it. After Episode 3 the "new" story was that Vader hunting down the Jedi was an exaggerated myth. It never happened and he couldn't use The Force as well because of the loss of his limbs. Even in one of the first comics after becoming Vader in the suit, some Jedi almost defeat him but can't bring themselves to kill or something to that nature. Another one of those stories where the writers try to match the bad stories of the prequels.

Supposedly Ahsoka's fate may not be what we think.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/03/31/star-wars-rebels-dave-filoni-on-ahsokas-fate-mauls-return-and-much-more

which I think is total BS. Don't show her descending into the Temple if she's actually dead and say it is was her ghost or some form of symbolism of her character fading into oblivion. If you wanted it to be left as a "mystery" or left open for her return or if she is indeed dead, DON'T show her! You could have left it exactly as it is just with that one clip cut out. To say it is open to interpretation is ridiculous.

Chris

Stupid selling the next season bs. Just like what I've read of the Walking Dead. Don't show a character die. But show a scene of them actually walking away and make some vague comments to get viewers for next season. No one would ever consider that was Ahsoka's ghost walking away. And even if it was, it would be even worse than the ending of Dangaio. At least we saw the end of that battle.

i took it that she lived. Wouldn't her death be more dramatic? Since they're throwing Maul in there, maybe they can squeeze Ventress in because fvck her fate in the comics.

I remember she was bad ass. She should have been the Sith in Episode 2 but George Lucas had to use Dooku to prove that a Jedi could be turned. Of course he's there just for that reason. We never see any sort of story behind the turning. But anyway, I remember Ventress just leaving in a spaceship and basically saying to Hell with both sides. I think the comic was a 5 part mini series. It was well drawn if I remember correctly.

[Dobber]

Regarding Maul, that was how he first appeared in the Clone Wars series. Not a fan fiction Comic but now canon. If you feel it was like fan fiction then that's fine, just making sure you know that that is how it has now happened.

As for my quoted reply, not sure if you were agreeing with me or not but I agree with you as it's what I said in my statement you quoted.

Chris

[Duke Togo]

Regarding Maul, that was how he first appeared in the Clone Wars series. Not a fan fiction Comic but now canon. If you feel it was like fan fiction then that's fine, just making sure you know

Who cares? The vast majority of SW fans do not follow the show and are completely ignorant of the stories being told in it. Hell, almost all of the SW fans I know haven't even watched the prequels in over a decade. This stuff just isn't relevant.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Who cares? The vast majority of SW fans do not follow the show and are completely ignorant of the stories being told in it. Hell, almost all of the SW fans I know haven't even watched the prequels in over a decade. This stuff just isn't relevant.

The majority of people who have seen Star Wars may not, but the people who watch the show are the people who watch the show. You dig? If you only watch the movies, that's fine, they're very well self-contained. But if you're into the greater franchise as a whole, well, you probably give a damn about things like Maul being in TCW and so on.

[Duke Togo]

The majority of people who have seen Star Wars may not, but the people who watch the show are the people who watch the show. You dig? If you only watch the movies, that's fine, they're very well self-contained. But if you're into the greater franchise as a whole, well, you probably give a damn about things like Maul being in TCW and so on.

Of course I give a damn, which is why I'm moving on from this show. If I didn't care I'd just accept it. Sadly, Rebels lives in that space between fan fiction and fan service, which is something that plagued most of the content put out in the EU.

[Duke Togo]

Hell, one of the central themes of Rogue One completely contradicts what we have seen in Rebels:

In the world of Rogue One, Edwards said the "absence of Jedi is omnipresent."

The characters in the film realise that the "gods are not coming to save us," he said. "It comes down to a group of people who dont have magical powers who band together to bring hope to the galaxy."

Edited April 6, 2016 by Duke Togo

[Mog]

Of course I give a damn, which is why I'm moving on from this show. If I didn't care I'd just accept it. Sadly, Rebels lives in that space between fan fiction and fan service, which is something that plagued most of the content put out in the EU.

Ironic, since you seem to be the strongest supporter for all the extra, not-shown-in-the-movie stuff floating around for The Force Awakens.

I originally hated the idea of bringing back Maul, but the arcs they did with him in the Clone Wars, Season 5 were so good that it overcame my initial dislike.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Mog

[peter]

Hell, one of the central themes of Rogue One completely contradicts what we have seen in Rebels:

I think they have reaffirmed that sentiment in Rebels when whats-her-nuts says they won’t always be around

Edited April 6, 2016 by peter

[Duke Togo]

"Hell, one of the central themes of Rogue One completely contradicts what we have seen in Rebels:"

I think they have reaffirmed that sentiment in Rebels when whats-her-nuts says they wont always be around

Well, sure, even Filoni said at the end of the day all of these force users are going to have to die. Not the point, though. We have the Rebel Alliance leaning heavily on the help of two Jedi, which pretty much goes against everything we've known for nearly 40 years. Never mind the fact that while being helped by the Jedi their pilots are flying around in state-of-the-art A-Wings several years before the Battle of Endor.

Ironic, since you seem to be the strongest supporter for all the extra, not-shown-in-the-movie stuff floating around for The Force Awakens.

Huh?

Edited April 6, 2016 by Duke Togo

[peter]

Well, sure, even Filoni said at the end of the day all of these force users are going to have to die. Not the point, though. We have the Rebel Alliance leaning heavily on the help of two Jedi, which pretty much goes against everything we've known for nearly 40 years. Never mind the fact that while being helped by the Jedi their pilots are flying around in state-of-the-art A-Wings several years before the Battle of Endor.

Yeah, he did say that, but I don’t see why they have to die as long as they don’t have a prominent role in the rebellion against the empire? Maybe I don’t have a proper grasp of how big or how small the Alliance really is, but from what I can understand, Rebels covers just one cell of many in the Alliance, so maybe it’s just this cell that’s leaning heavily on the help of these two/three Jedi?

I also note that Kanan isn’t technically a Jedi, and neither is Ezra. They possess skills and weapons commonly associated with Jedi, but they are not technically Jedi. As for Ahsoka, she left the Jedi Order of her own free will. And Obi Wan said himself that he was “once a Jedi”, implying that he is no longer a Jedi as of Ep IV. If the Jedi were modeled after concepts common to the samurai of Japan, I can definitely accept the existence of Kanan, Ezra and Ahsoka after the purge. If for whatever reason a samurai finds himself longer employed and has no boss/master, he is no longer a samurai by title. The Jedi served the republic, and if they republic no longer exists, no more Jedi?

Anyway, yeah, a lot of plot holes and retconning still remain and if Filoni's not careful, he'll end up doing what GL did to the Prequels.

[Duke Togo]

Jedi Padawans are still Jedi, along with Knights and Masters. Yoda tells Luke straight out that he is the last of the Jedi. Period. He (and Leia) are their last hope. And Rebels shows us Yoda knows about Kanan and Ezra. They have to be eliminated by ANH.

And speaking of Padawans, thank god they dropped that term in the new movie and went back to using "apprentice."

Edit: it's important to keep in mind that Rebels is first and foremost a kids show, and its status as canon can change at any point, really. There have been several instances of stuff being relegated to the EU after having once been considered canon.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Duke Togo

[peter]

Jedi Padawans are still Jedi, along with Knights and Masters. Yoda tells Luke straight out that he is the last of the Jedi. Period. He (and Leia) are their last hope. And Rebels shows us Yoda knows about Kanan and Ezra. They have to be eliminated by ANH.

And speaking of Padawans, thank god they dropped that term in the new movie and went back to using "apprentice."

Edit: it's important to keep in mind that Rebels is first and foremost a kids show, and its status as canon can change at any point, really. There have been several instances of stuff being relegated to the EU after having once been considered canon.

One of my favourite Vader lines "The force is with you, young Skywalker, but you are not a Jedi yet." Of course, that was Empire. Didn't Yoda say in ROTJ that Luke wasn't a Jedi until he faced Vader? Anyway, semantics. The whole thing is a friggin' mess since the prequels came out.....

I'll agree with you on the Padawan thing.....GD I hated that term.

Yeah, I also have to try to remember that Rebels is a kid's show, you're right. So far, I'm on the fence about it. To me, it's not horrible, but it's not awesome either. Let's hope it doesn't turn into a steaming pile in season three.

[Duke Togo]

To me, it's not horrible, but it's not awesome either.

Clone Wars had some trouble spots, but it also had some truly great storylines--especially when they focused on the clones. Rebels just feels mediocre across the board.

[Dynaman]

Trying to nail down the differences between jedi and not jedi is like trying to nail jello to the wall. The original Trilogy made it seem that anyone with the Force was either a Jedi, a Sith, or totally untrained and unable to use it. Now it is who knows what since Rey picked it up in a couple minutes.

[Sildani]

She IS a Skywalker/Kenobi/who knows what, so it's not like she's totally a novice. Who knows what secrets are locked in her head that could be manifesting?

[Duke Togo]

She IS a Skywalker/Kenobi/who knows what, so it's not like she's totally a novice. Who knows what secrets are locked in her head that could be manifesting?

And we don't know what training she had as a child. They show us early on in the movie that she can handle herself quite well.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Duke Togo

[Roy Focker]

You have to feel sorry for the dozens of Rebel Alliance force users who aren't actually Jedi. They carry light sabers, use the force for good and other Rebels are all like "If only we had a single Jedi in our ranks."

[Sildani]

Well, in the new Way of Thinking About the Force, it could be that earning the title of Jedi carries an understanding that you have a true mastery of its aspects - whether that's lightsabering, choking, or mind-controlling. That's huge. Rather like the difference between an ashigaru, say, and a fully trained samurai. The ashigaru could give a good accounting of himself, perhaps, but I know who my money's on.

So it may be for the Jedi. Now, anyway.

[Dynaman]

She IS a Skywalker/Kenobi/who knows what, so it's not like she's totally a novice. Who knows what secrets are locked in her head that could be manifesting?

And we don't know what training she had as a child. They show us early on in the movie that she can handle herself quite well.

and running around during the movie being surprised that Jedi are real... They have a plot hole to fill if that is the case.

[Duke Togo]

and running around during the movie being surprised that Jedi are real... They have a plot hole to fill if that is the case.

She has little to no memory of her early childhood. She doesn't even know who she's waiting for to come back.

[JetJockey]

I think I need to see The Force Awakens asap from some of these posts. I haven't seen the trailers and all I know is George Lucas called it retro. And worse, a news site I check had the word remake in a sentence for their review. Which gives me the feeling that I won't like it since I don't know who would decide to remake any of the OT movies. Oh JJ Abrams since he thought remaking Wrath of Khan was a good idea.

Regarding Maul, that was how he first appeared in the Clone Wars series. Not a fan fiction Comic but now canon. If you feel it was like fan fiction then that's fine, just making sure you know that that is how it has now happened.

As for my quoted reply, not sure if you were agreeing with me or not but I agree with you as it's what I said in my statement you quoted.

Chris

Maul appeared with the mech legs in the Clone Wars TV show? I didn't know that. The Star Wars comic I mentioned is called Visionaries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Visionaries

It came out in 2005. I believe even before Revenge of the Sith because I remember being somewhat excited about the reasoning behind how The Emperor hid from the Jedi. There is a story kind of about that in there too. Which turns out better than what's in the movie. As in the movie it was because all of them are stupid and can't sense anything.

I was just agreeing that the guy is full of it. I hate that the guy even said that and the interviewer put up with it. As a whole I just believe it's all bs to sell Star Wars as a product. Before the prequels and up to Revenge of the Sith, for the most part it seemed like everyone who was making stories whether in comics, cartoons, or books was on the same page. Or had a decent feel for what was going on. Sure you had overpowered Jedi in the original Clone Wars cartoons. But that was a stylized cartoon. But now whatever is cool or a good story regardless of continuity or making any sense is told and the producers, directors, actors, etc. run to the cameras and "news sites" and sell it regardless.

Edited April 8, 2016 by JetJockey

[Dynaman]

She has little to no memory of her early childhood. She doesn't even know who she's waiting for to come back.

Which argues against her being able to pick up the Jedi/force abilities she displays in the film. Can't have the one (not remembering her trainer) with the other (enough training to use the force the way she does). I have no problem pointing out that "The Force" in Star Wars works like FTL speeds in Babylon 5 (moves at the speed of plot)

[peter]

After watching scenes from the Clone Wars, and noting the chemistry between Anikin and Ahsoka, it appears that Anikin's relationship with Ahsoka was a lot closer than his relationship with Obi Wan. I really liked Clone Wars Anikin and found his cartoon representation far better than the live one.

After what the two have been through together, I'd expect them to have a lot more to talk about before it came to crossing lightsabers.

I can totally imagine the two meeting and Ahsoka saying "WTF Skyguy, what the hell happened to you?" and Anikin sitting down at a Starbucks with Ahsoka telling her what's been going on in his life since she left the order. After a few hours of catching up, the conversation turns to politics, which becomes an arguement, leading to a bit of yelling, and finally someone tosses a table and the lightsabers come out.

I guess I just can't imagine wanting to kill one of my closest friends after not seeing them a long time just to find that they are now supporting the Liberal Party instead of the Conservatives. At least not before having a good chat with the person first. I suppose meeting on the battlefield doesn't allow for a chat over a cup of coffee, but still....

Anikin from Clone Wars = Too likeable a character, even when he lost his temper to transition to Vader

Akikin from Prequels = Too whiny to be Vader

Neither versions of Anikin transitioned well to Darth Vader for me and I'm not sure why I'm struggling to get my head around it.

I guess reading books like this aren't helping (Have a 1 year old who likes to look at pictures from these books:

Can you imagine Leia skyping with Ahsoka, lol!

I guess having a 1 year old kid running around, I can't help but think of wierd scenarios like what if Vader knew about his children and actually tried to raise them:

Edited April 8, 2016 by peter