Better M&M DogFight - TV or DYRL?

[Vepariga]

I love the TV fight but I really love the close quarters fire fight in DYRL?

[sreichma]

Agree all the way. Max was badass because he was just a normal pilot in the ranks flying a standard fighter and was an absolute badass. The best there is, ever was, and ever will be. The TV max 1a needs a lot more love.

[Pterobat]

I prefer SDFM instinctively it's a) SDFM and b) The Q-Rau looks better c) It's part of a larger, longer development than the film version. One that I don't exactly care for, but I prefer spending more time with it.

I guess DYRL, being simpler, doesn't have that subext of Max "taming" Milia, but that's just shy of enough to put it above for me.

Er, anyway, I've always assumed, after seeing DYRL that Max's glasses weren't "real" glasses, but just cool shades. Maybe in the flexible interpretation of the military found in Macross, an ace pilot with glasses isn't so far-fetched, but his ability to function without them in the climax of DYRL cemented in my mind the idea that they were not real glasses. That, and none of his kids have glasses, either, though HAL and others could have just forgotten to add them.

Also, I don't think the information about DNA manipulation in the Macross Chronicle really solves the Exsedol Question, 'cause there's all that other stuff involved like the overall design continuity and all that. I don't think it was ever intended to be that he "turned into" the DYRL version but that Exsedol's new design was simply treated as what he had always been, with both interpretations of the character regardless being official.

[jvmacross]

I prefer SDFM instinctively it's a) SDFM and b) The Q-Rau looks better c) It's part of a larger, longer development than the film version. One that I don't exactly care for, but I prefer spending more time with it.

I guess DYRL, being simpler, doesn't have that subext of Max "taming" Milia, but that's just shy of enough to put it above for me.

Er, anyway, I've always assumed, after seeing DYRL that Max's glasses weren't "real" glasses, but just cool shades. Maybe in the flexible interpretation of the military found in Macross, an ace pilot with glasses isn't so far-fetched, but his ability to function without them in the climax of DYRL cemented in my mind the idea that they were not real glasses. That, and none of his kids have glasses, either, though HAL and others could have just forgotten to add them.

Also, I don't think the information about DNA manipulation in the Macross Chronicle really solves the Exsedol Question, 'cause there's all that other stuff involved like the overall design continuity and all that. I don't think it was ever intended to be that he "turned into" the DYRL version but that Exsedol's new design was simply treated as what he had always been, with both interpretations of the character regardless being official.

I think the whole "glasses" thing is still inconclusive....if you go with the idea that they were Rx....then you can easily argue that the Meltrans did not stock them in XXXXXXXXXXXXX-large! Not sure why his kids not requiring Rx glasses means anything....do Milia's genes not count?

Continuity of any kind seems to be thrown out the window when Macross is concerned....but we still love it so!

[VF-15 Banshee]

Well, at least 10 other people have voted for DYRL, so now I don't feel as bad.

[Pterobat]

Well, one'd just assume not having glasses would interfere with Max's piloting abilities, even if he's a "genius". If he can discard 'em so easily, then boom, they're probably just cool shades.

Max is just the type to wear cool shades.

I'm not saying all of his kids would have glasses, either, but it's reasonable to think at least some of them would if Dad needed them. Milia is only half the equation, there.

[sketchley]

I'm not saying all of his kids would have glasses, either, but it's reasonable to think at least some of them would if Dad needed them. Milia is only half the equation, there.

True, but then it raises such questions as: are Zentraadi (Meltrandi) genes stronger than human genes? Are the kids wearing contact lens? Did the kids get genetically modified to remove any vision impairment?

Also, I don't think the information about DNA manipulation in the Macross Chronicle really solves the Exsedol Question, 'cause there's all that other stuff involved like the overall design continuity and all that. I don't think it was ever intended to be that he "turned into" the DYRL version but that Exsedol's new design was simply treated as what he had always been, with both interpretations of the character regardless being official.

Going by Kawamori-san's insistence that each Macross series is compartmentalized from the others, then yes, Exedore always looked the way he did in whatever series he appears in.

However, Macross Chronicle (and I believe most of the rest of the world) has placed emphasis on the TV series as the main continuity. As such, the differences in his appearance in SDFM and M7 need to be explained - and their explanation actually solves the design disparity between the 3 incarnations (SDFM is his original appearance. M7 is the appearance that he manipulated his genes into producing, and DYRL is the in-universe theatrical embellishment of his M7 appearance.

[jvmacross]

True, but then it raises such questions as: are Zentraadi (Meltrandi) genes stronger than human genes? Are the kids wearing contact lens? Did the kids get genetically modified to remove any vision impairment?Going by Kawamori-san's insistence that each Macross series is compartmentalized from the others, then yes, Exedore always looked the way he did in whatever series he appears in.

However, Macross Chronicle (and I believe most of the rest of the world) has placed emphasis on the TV series as the main continuity. As such, the differences in his appearance in SDFM and M7 need to be explained - and their explanation actually solves the design disparity between the 3 incarnations (SDFM is his original appearance. M7 is the appearance that he manipulated his genes into producing, and DYRL is the in-universe theatrical embellishment of his M7 appearance.

True, but then it raises such questions as: are Zentraadi (Meltrandi) genes stronger than human genes? Are the kids wearing contact lens? Did the kids get genetically modified to remove any vision impairment?Going by Kawamori-san's insistence that each Macross series is compartmentalized from the others, then yes, Exedore always looked the way he did in whatever series he appears in.

However, Macross Chronicle (and I believe most of the rest of the world) has placed emphasis on the TV series as the main continuity. As such, the differences in his appearance in SDFM and M7 need to be explained - and their explanation actually solves the design disparity between the 3 incarnations (SDFM is his original appearance. M7 is the appearance that he manipulated his genes into producing, and DYRL is the in-universe theatrical embellishment of his M7 appearance.

But doesn't FB7 insinuate that M7 is some kind of TV series?....

[sketchley]

But doesn't FB7 insinuate that M7 is some kind of TV series?....

FB7 doesn't exist!

(speaking seriously: it's that whole "what we're seeing is an in-universe fictionalized retelling of the *real* events". Which makes FB7 that much more bizarre, as it's a fictional series watching another fictional series... and it gets no where close to doing something profound like breaking the 4th wall, let alone actually having the cast of the respective shows interact and exchange meaningful dialogue...)

[dizman]

The DYRL MvM fight is my favorite fight in all of Macross, it's perfect! It's a fast paced fight with both aces using all the tricks they have while constantly one upping each other and in the end it's a draw.

[Pterobat]

Eh...well, I'd rather accept no explanation than to make assumptions based on various small things. It feels too fanfic-y to me, and thus doesn't carry any weight. I would need something absolutely concrete and explicit to consider any issue solved. And since we're not going to get it, I'm not going to try to fill in the blanks myself.

The difference probably is that Exsedol is my favourite character in Macross, and so it's something I get picky over and hold any explanations to a high standard. I know this seems weird in light of how mellow everybody else is here about continuity, but this is just normal fandom stuff.

Besides, I look at all the ways the DYRL aesthetic has influenced later TV series and can't think that Exsedol is the only thing that has / needs an in-story explanation when everything else is all, "Kay they're using those designs now but SDFM is also official too."

Regarding the other tangent, I might have to recant what I said about Max, since there was a WWI ace named Kurt Wintgens who received the Blue Max medal and wore out-and-out glasses...and piloted a Fokker plane (yes, I know the spelling is different, but...).

Dang Wikipedia is the best source out of a cursory Google search: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Wintgens

[jvmacross]

Eh...well, I'd rather accept no explanation than to make assumptions based on various small things. It feels too fanfic-y to me, and thus doesn't carry any weight. I would need something absolutely concrete and explicit to consider any issue solved. And since we're not going to get it, I'm not going to try to fill in the blanks myself.The difference probably is that Exsedol is my favourite character in Macross, and so it's something I get picky over and hold any explanations to a high standard. I know this seems weird in light of how mellow everybody else is here about continuity, but this is just normal fandom stuff.Besides, I look at all the ways the DYRL aesthetic has influenced later TV series and can't think that Exsedol is the only thing that has / needs an in-story explanation when everything else is all, "Kay they're using those designs now but SDFM is also official too."Regarding the other tangent, I might have to recant what I said about Max, since there was a WWI ace named Kurt Wintgens who received the Blue Max medal and wore out-and-out glasses...and piloted a Fokker plane (yes, I know the spelling is different, but...).Dang Wikipedia is the best source out of a cursory Google search: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Wintgens

One of the reasons why I assumed the glasses Max wore were Rx is because I thought the creators were going for the "ironic" angle....as in.......ace pilot of the UN Spacy....and he wears Rx glasses!!

[sketchley]

One of the reasons why I assumed the glasses Max wore were Rx is because I thought the creators were going for the "ironic" angle....as in.......ace pilot of the UN Spacy....and he wears Rx glasses!!

That, and he became a pilot because there wasn't a lot of options left for replacement in the populace aboard the Macross during its return voyage - Kakizaki has the same explanation (he's a little overweight for a pilot).

[jvmacross]

OK...so which one of you guys in Japan will ask the Max "eye glass" question next time you run into Kawamori at a signing event?

Edited May 11, 2013 by jvmacross

[Reïvaj]

thanks...oh, BTW...are Max's glasses Rx or Fashion? Or has that also not been made clear?

Sunglasses?

[SuperSenpai]

I have it on good authority that Max is in fact completely blind, but masks his blindness due to a radar sense which informs him of his surroundings. Little know fact: He was adopted by the Jenius family when he was a young boy, but his birth name is Max Murdock.

[Dio]

Voted DYRL, though both are great in their own right. I had to pick the DYRL version simply because of the phrasing of the question - which is the better dogfight?

The SDFM fight is better in terms of context, how it fits into the story, and establishing a sense of desperation. However, it mostly consists of the pilots being in wide open skies, chasing one another and dodging shots, ending when Miriya mistakenly rushes into a corner and Max plugs a couple shots in her back. Conclusion-wise, I like it better because you see all the way through to the end without breaks, but at that point it was basically Miriya trying to run away and Max taking an opportune shot (I wouldn't give him credit for driving her into the city).

The DYRL fight involves a greater variety of terrain and use of environment (like sticking close to the water, darting in and out of what looks like an aqueduct, etc), along with pulling more improvised attacks like Max's head turret. Both fighters take damage over the course of the chase. The hand-to-hand(ish) portion takes the fight to places where the SDFM fight didn't, and I would count that towards establishing the fight as much more intense and a test of a broader array of the pilots' skill sets. The cinematography isn't quite how I'd like, and you don't get to see the final blows landed, but it does appear to have been a much more knock-down-drag-out fight where both warriors got beaten and bloodied.

As for Max's glasses, I'm going to go with the "HD Aviator Sunglasses" from the infomercials

[plastik]

One of the reasons why I assumed the glasses Max wore were Rx is because I thought the creators were going for the "ironic" angle....as in.......ace pilot of the UN Spacy....and he wears Rx glasses!!

I always thought this as well. Just like how Michel Blanc from Macross Frontier wears glasses and he's the SMS designated marksman/sniper.

ps. I voted for DYRL.

Edited May 12, 2013 by plastik

[Valkyrie Magnus]

I have it on good authority that Max is in fact completely blind, but masks his blindness due to a radar sense which informs him of his surroundings. Little know fact: He was adopted by the Jenius family when he was a young boy, but his birth name is Max Murdock.

I voted DYRL but there were many good and funny points. The knife fight should be dead last if you had to rank them.

1 DYRL

2 SDFM

3 Video Game

Lastly the knife fight in the park never to be seen again.

I like the Max Murdock theory the best. Hilarious!!!

[peter]

I voted for DYRL. The animation was better, like they took more care to make sure the movements were more fluid. I liked the fight scene in SDF a lot but the fact that Max had the 1S in DYRL really did it for me. My only gripe with it was the fight was too short and they sort of cheaped out in the Meltran ship.