3d Printing General Topic...

[GU-11]

Anyone tried Sketchup Make before?

Apparently, it's a version of Sketchup that's specifically taylored for 3D printing. I wonder if they actually worked out the glitches that pop up when drawing small objects, yet.

I downloaded it, but decided to ask for some opinions before installing.

[GU-11]

A question for Sketchup experts out there. I used soap skin bubble to cover a curved part of an object, and it works fine. But when I used solid inspector to check for "leaks", it lit up the "skin" made by soap skin bubble even though the area is completely covered.

Is this just a false alarm on solid inspector's part?

[Chronocidal]

Could be a glitch, and I don't know anything about that particular program, but my first thought is that the surface of the bubble isn't welded to the object it's covering.

Also, you say it's covering a curved part of the object.. is there a secondary surface underneath the bubble that hasn't been deleted?

Edited June 10, 2013 by Chronocidal

[GU-11]

Finally figured it out. The skin was created as a separate group, which was why solid inspector saw it as part of the model. I exploded it and then grouped it as part of the model--problem solved.

...several minutes after which I ran into new problems.

Having trouble warping/reshaping the proportions of the model. The move tool is just plain messy. I'll need to scrounge around for a suitable plugin.

Also, sometimes soap skin bubble refuses to skin a gap. It keeps telling me "you must select three or more edges in a closed loop," when I already did just that.

Any help is appreciated!

[GU-11]

It's ALIIIIVVVVVVVEE!

The UP! Plus2 has arrived. From the guy's demonstration, it's very user-friendly, and just about as foolproof as it gets...basically 3D printing for dummies.

That said, the sample bracelet he printed came off the rafting midway and the whole thing was screwed up. But what was already printed looked MUCH better than I expected. Not need for sanding whatsoever. IMO, Shapeways has got nothing on this.

I'll try printing something again later and see how it goes.

[Chronocidal]

If it's as good as you're saying, I'm gonna have to grab myself one soon. Do you have to build in the support structure, or does it know how to do that on its own? Also, what's the maximum part size you can make?

I'm currently experimenting with useful ways to cut engraved panel lines into my model, but I'm wondering if Shapeways will have the ability to leave lines this thin. That excalibur model is pretty small, and I'm probably going to have to hit around a 0.1 mm thickness to get the details I want.

That is, unless I get my own printer, and blow the thing up to about twice the size it is now.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Chronocidal

[GU-11]

If it's as good as you're saying, I'm gonna have to grab myself one soon. Do you have to build in the support structure, or does it know how to do that on its own? Also, what's the maximum part size you can make?

I'm currently experimenting with useful ways to cut engraved panel lines into my model, but I'm wondering if Shapeways will have the ability to leave lines this thin. That excalibur model is pretty small, and I'm probably going to have to hit around a 0.1 mm thickness to get the details I want.

That is, unless I get my own printer, and blow the thing up to about twice the size it is now.

The printer software automatically calculates and builds the necessary support structure.

The maximum is W130mm X L130mm X H130mm. Diagonally, it's 140mm.

Incidentally, I asked the guy if the small panel lines and details will be retained in a small 1/6 scale head. He said as long keep the thickness to 0.4mm, what you render is what will be printed.

So yeah, I totally recommend this printer. It's also ridiculously fast in slicing.

BTW, the auto leveling is super easy. There's this gadget you have to plug into the nozzle and then the back of the platform, and it'll automatically calibrate everything for you. NOTE: only the Plus 2 has this feature. You'll have to recalibrate manually with the Plus, which is a bot of a PITA.

It's also super silent. Even with the windows closed and the AC turned on, I can't smell any fumes from the ABS.

[GU-11]

Printed the sample bracelet last night. It's a thing of beauty, seriously. None of that rough texture you usually get from Shapeways. Even the print-lines are almost unnoticeable, especially in white.

[GU-11]

Anyone know where I can order clear plastic filaments? The distributor I bought the printer from doesn't seem to carry clear ones.

That aside, is it safe to use filaments other than the ones sold by the same place you bought the printer?

[Chronocidal]

I'd assume ABS filament is fairly standard, it's one of the drawbacks cited in reviews of the Cube3D printer, since it uses proprietary cartridges (though I wonder if you could manually refill them). As long as the filament diameter is within the machine's capability to use, I'd think you can get it from any source you like.

I've been looking around for good user forums for 3D printing info, but so far no really helpful ones have come to my attention. If you find a good source of experience, I'd check there to be sure.

As far as clear plastic goes, I can't offer much help on where to find it, but are you actually interested in printing a transparent part like a window, or just something translucent?

[GU-11]

I'd assume ABS filament is fairly standard, it's one of the drawbacks cited in reviews of the Cube3D printer, since it uses proprietary cartridges (though I wonder if you could manually refill them). As long as the filament diameter is within the machine's capability to use, I'd think you can get it from any source you like.

I've been looking around for good user forums for 3D printing info, but so far no really helpful ones have come to my attention. If you find a good source of experience, I'd check there to be sure.

As far as clear plastic goes, I can't offer much help on where to find it, but are you actually interested in printing a transparent part like a window, or just something translucent?

Thanks for the info!

I just did some research last night, and it seems clear filament isn't going to cut it, after all. Just like the guy who installed my Plus 2 said, it does come out foggy, with a whitish color.

Yeah, I'm looking to print clear transparent parts like windscreens and headlights for some customizing jobs, but apparently the transparency of 3d printed clear parts just aren't good enough. They'd work as lightsaber blades and gunfire effects, though. They'll also work as tail lights on vehicles and certain sensors, but I wonder if it's worth the trouble ordering and shipping a spool of clear filament when I can get similar results with the traditional "clear color over silver base coat" method.

That said, I found an Aussie online shop that ships internationally, and even has a specific page for filaments made for Plus printers. Prices are a little steep when you factor in shipping, but at least it's available.

I might buy a 700 gram spool to experiment with, but right now, I've got better uses for my money.

Speaking of the 3D Cube, it looks pretty similar to the Plus in terms of design, but a little more streamlined and less-industrial. I wonder how it performs.

BTW, apparently you can hack the Cube to accept bulk filaments.

Edited June 21, 2013 by GU-11

[GU-11]

Ventilation question:

I've moved the 3d printer from the living room to my man-cave, due to the fluorescent lights I use in the living room. I don't want the ABS filaments to get too much UV exposure.

Thing is, I'm concerned about the fumes the ABS releases when being heated and extruded.

While official test reports show no HCN emissions from ABS, some 3d printing forums talk about "sensitive" people having problems while printing stuff in air-conditioned environments. I've got no history of asthma or anything, but I am a little worried about long-term exposure to these fumes.

Is it safe to use in an enclosed area?

[mechaninac]

Ordinarily, if you can't detect any odors when the machine is running there shouldn't be much to worry about. The company where I work employs a Stratasys Dimension machine that is an ABS extruder; it is kept in a small, unventilated room with no smell even after hours of continuous operation (if anything, I'd be more concerned with the detergent-soluble support substrate material it uses to anchor the plastic to the build platform than the ABS itself) -- granted, the room is solely dedicated to the prototype machine and not occupied on any continuous basis; that being said, It could be possible for some people to have or develop a sensitivity to minute amounts of airborne volatiles that most people could not hope to smell, so it's better to be safe than sorry and install an exhaust fan to a window that you can turn on whenever you operate your machine.

Edited June 22, 2013 by mechaninac

[GU-11]

Thanks for the advice! There's only one spot I can place the machine where it's far enough away from the AC, but the window out be out of reach as well. I'm thinking of using a spray booth fitted with a cut-out piece of Tamiya filter to clean whatever trace amounts of volatiles and recirculate the filtered air back into the room.

Would that work?

I was thinking that since Tamiya spray booths have the option of recirculating filtered air back into a room, the filters could be used to "scrub" the air around the printer.

FYI, I can't smell any of the fumes people keep mentioning when the the machine's working, although those years of smoking in my college days might have decreased my sense of smell.

[EXO]

Sweetest 3D printer

[big F]

I Love Bees. I am going to get my own Hive once the house renovations are done.

Then I will have my own 3-B printer

Edited September 17, 2013 by big F

[GU-11]

Well, at least you won't have to worry about fumes, using this printer.

[Temjin]

Just opened a shop at Shapeways, and uploaded this mecha for sale. $38.57 The height is about 4.5 inches I think... The dimensions on the site said (2.732 w x 3.592 d x 1.902 h.) I presume 3.592 is the actual height. http://www.shapeways.com/shops/qcmechas

I have the model save as .3ds, and import it to Accutrans 3d. In Accutrans 3d, you can set the print size of the model. Here's a tutorial for more details. http://www.shapeways.com/tutorials/converting-with-accutrans-3d

[GU-11]

Wow, that's cool. How's the articulation on this?

[Tober]

Are there any reviews comparing the UP Plus 2 to Shapeways output? Photos etc.

[GU-11]

Are there any reviews comparing the UP Plus 2 to Shapeways output? Photos etc.

I remember reading in a blog that said that in a comparison test between Shapeways, the UP Plus and another 3D printer (don't recall which one, could be the Makerbot), the UP Plus produced the best details. IIRC, the subject was an owl, and only the UP was able to include the minor details such as the nostrils.

[Tober]

I remember reading in a blog that said that in a comparison test between Shapeways, the UP Plus and another 3D printer (don't recall which one, could be the Makerbot), the UP Plus produced the best details. IIRC, the subject was an owl, and only the UP was able to include the minor details such as the nostrils.

MAKE did a comparison list about a year ago with that owl's nostrils only being reproduced on the Afinia H-Series (aka origional Up Plus). I'm not sure how the Up Plus 2 compares to its predecessor.

Do you actually own one?

Edited September 17, 2013 by Tober

[Temjin]

Wow, that's cool. How's the articulation on this?

Thanks, there's no articulation, the model is a fixed pose. For articulation, I really want to make polycaps joints. If polycaps like printing material is available.

It would save the effort, if there are some existing 3D joints for download. Joints that are tested and guarantee work.

Are there any reviews comparing the UP Plus 2 to Shapeways output? Photos etc.

I don't know, I never printed anything before. There are sample pics on the Shapeways site, but that don't give you clue for the comparison.

[GU-11]

MAKE did a comparison list about a year ago with that owl's nostrils only being reproduced on the Afinia H-Series (aka origional Up Plus). I'm not sure how the Up Plus 2 compares to its predecessor.

Do you actually own one?

Yeah, I have the Plus 2, and it's pretty much identical to the Plus in all aspects, except the auto-calibration hardware upgrade makes it even more user-friendly. In any case, you don't even have to calibrate it more than once after taking it out of the box, unless you move it frequently.

Print quality is gorgeous. I printed a test version of a Grimlock head I was working on, and it's about as good and accurate as it gets for a 3d printed item.

Thanks, there's no articulation, the model is a fixed pose. For articulation, I really want to make polycaps joints. If polycaps like printing material is available.

It would save the effort, if there are some existing 3D joints for download. Joints that are tested and guarantee work.

I see. I can understand why you had to make it a fixed pose figure. The cannons would probably be too heavy for the arms hold up without polycaps.

[Temjin]

Those cannons can be troublesome, may be adding weight to the legs and have the arms non poseable. Here's a wip of the hip joint, It's more of a universal joint. I will try to avoid using ball joint, because of the fitting issue. Hinge joint seems more predictable, if it doesn't fit, just sand it down.

[GU-11]

Wow, that looks pretty complex.

That said, hinges, while more complex in design, are more reliable and easy to fit and adjust than ball-joints, like you said.

BTW, I noticed that the software you're using is 3DS Studio Max. How does it compare to Sketchup? I've only used Sketchup since it's free and relatively user-friendly. My only other option when I started out was Blender, which was no option at all. Two whole days of tinkering, and I couldn't even draw a pyramid.

[Chronocidal]

I haven't tried Sketchup, so I can't really compare the two, but I can vouch for 3DS Max's capability, since it's what I've used for about ten years now. Thing is, it's horrendously expensive for the average hobbyist (which is why it's probably one of the most pirated programs in existence, and a good part of why Gmax exists ).

I tend to horribly under-use the features of 3DS Max, simply because I only use it for polygon models, mostly built with spline cages. But since that's basically what STL files are to begin with, it works just fine.

[Temjin]

That's very true, a simple ball joint will do all that. Actually ball joints for the ankles might not be such a bad idea.

Same here, I never used sketchup or blener before, but for 3DS Studio Max it has some good modeling tools, like mesh editing and nurbs. The interface is ok, it gets the work done, and I wouldn't call it intuitive. If you want to give it a try, I would recommend version R3.

[Temjin]

This page has some helpful information on ball joint, you actually don't leave any space for the joint socket. http://www.shapeways.com/blog/archives/2238-how-to-design-snap-fit-ball-joints-for-3d-printing-with-shapeways.html

Update on the model, replaced the hip universal joint with a ball joint, also added articulation on the pelvis, so the legs can move really high. If I can make the knee joints bend more than 90 degrees, a kneeling pose is possible...

[GU-11]

I haven't tried Sketchup, so I can't really compare the two, but I can vouch for 3DS Max's capability, since it's what I've used for about ten years now. Thing is, it's horrendously expensive for the average hobbyist (which is why it's probably one of the most pirated programs in existence, and a good part of why Gmax exists ).

I tend to horribly under-use the features of 3DS Max, simply because I only use it for polygon models, mostly built with spline cages. But since that's basically what STL files are to begin with, it works just fine.

Thanks for the info! Is Gmax good? If it's available for free download, I'd like to try it out. Now I'm quite satisfied with Sketchup with all its free plugins as well as its ability to export files in STL format, but I do find it a little limited when it comes to rendering certain things like anime faces...well, faces in general.

Just wondering if another (preferably free) 3D rendering software would more easily render organic shapes.

That's very true, a simple ball joint will do all that. Actually ball joints for the ankles might not be such a bad idea.

Same here, I never used sketchup or blener before, but for 3DS Studio Max it has some good modeling tools, like mesh editing and nurbs. The interface is ok, it gets the work done, and I wouldn't call it intuitive. If you want to give it a try, I would recommend version R3.

Yeah, ball joints are also more versatile and easier to more when you need to pose them.

As for 3DS, frankly, the price is the only thing that's keeping me away from trying it out. I checked out the price at the Autodesk website, and it's WAY out of the price range I'm willing to pay.

This page has some helpful information on ball joint, you actually don't leave any space for the joint socket. http://www.shapeways.com/blog/archives/2238-how-to-design-snap-fit-ball-joints-for-3d-printing-with-shapeways.html

Update on the model, replaced the hip universal joint with a ball joint, also added articulation on the pelvis, so the legs can move really high. If I can make the knee joints bend more than 90 degrees, a kneeling pose is possible...

Thanks for that link! I actually a use more "rudimentary" version of ball joint sockets in that they're just cylinders with the exact circumference as the ball joint itself. They still work quite well, despite not having as wide a contact surface as a traditional type socket.

I actually noticed such a socket being used for the arm joints of a FG Gundam model kit I built long ago, and it holds up pretty well even today. It can easily hold up the included sniper rifle without any problems.

[Chronocidal]

I'm pretty sure I've touted the wonders of gmax before, but the short version is that it is essentially a free version of 3DS Max, minus all the features you don't need for game design (rendering, fancy effects and lighting, etc). It can export in m3d format for quake 3, which is a very short conversion away from STL.

Look up any gmax modeling tutorial, and you'll see what it's capable of. It's probably the best free modeling program you can get, provided you find a way around the export limitations.

[GU-11]

Got it. If it turns out to to be good for organic shapes, I'll probably switch to Gmax.

Thanks!

[Temjin]

Update on the knee joint, and the kneeling pose seems possible. One problem I have is the "U" shape bar blocking part of the upper leg, showing in the 3rd pic. The bar is already retracted upward into the torso. Hope the shoulder joint has room for that later.

[Temjin]

This is short couple days project. The model is from loooooog time ago, so I didn't build everything from scratch.

I spend last couple days adding some simple articulation, and some joint details.

For $54.14 the model is 4inches long, and 2inches tall. I can go smaller with cheaper price, but.... make it big.

https://www.shapeways.com/model/1386551/m10-with-articulation.html?li=my-models&materialId=6

[Temjin]

Update on the foot and ankle joints with a video. Earlier GU-11 mentioned about cylinder type ball joint, I found that very useful here. So, thanks to him for that!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu_eJCXRSvU