Robotech RPG Tactics Kickstarter

[Einherjar]

Kickstarter isn't a magical fix for business, it actually means you have more people to please than you would if you just found some old-fashioned investors.

You should've been around when the other Robotech Kickstarter was happening. For all the crap Palladium gets for this project, at least they had a plan.

[Ghadrack]

I've never tried to upload right from a phone I may need to retry, but heres a pic of the runners to make 6 miniatures, a quarter for scale and one complete mini primed white next to it.

And here's the instructions for the Guardian and fighter mode.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Ghadrack

[Roy Focker]

All those parts are ridiculous. Plus how fragile are the completed models? These things have to hold up to regular handling. At that size with that many parts they can't be that sturdy.

[VF-0RC]

There have been frequent complaints about the fragility of antennae and small guns on the regults.

They are such a pain to assemble that I have had the starter box since Oct 28 last year and only have assembled four. Unlike other multi-part minis I have assembled, the contact points between limbs and body are all smooth, so unless you like pinning and greenstuffing your minis, I'd avoid these.

The included instructions are also garbage.

https://goo.gl/photos/45HhoCLc4J5wV5e46

[Ghadrack]

I've assembled quite a few and have 12 or 13 boxes more I've picked up to put together. If I find them cheap I'm scooping them up.

I've just been tossing them in the box between building and priming and they aren't crazy brittle. The head lasers on the vf-1 seem to be the most in danger. The arched base stands that attach them to the bases pop off pretty easy if you don't drill and pin.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Ghadrack

[Ghadrack]

Oh the decals are hilarious too. If you look at my first pic in the post above, check out the decal sheet in the upper right. Dozens of the decals are smaller than a pinhead. Imagine trying to lay, orient, set straight with a capillary drying to set then to cover, clearcoat without moving, wrinkling or turnin g. It's almost a joke.

[VF-0RC]

I don't even think I'm going to bother with using mine.

[cypherxv]

All those parts are ridiculous. Plus how fragile are the completed models? These things have to hold up to regular handling. At that size with that many parts they can't be that sturdy.

I have close to 30 years building minis and models. So I was able to build a few rrt minis. Almost every time I use the minis to play or they tip over they come apart. At least when it comes to the battroid, gerwalk, and fighter mode. The destroids and zentradi models fare much better, but they sometimes break too. I finally gave up on it. If/when wave two shows up I will give it another go. Unfortunately due to Kevin's inexperience with tabletop games he didn't realize that models make lousy game pieces. That's why most gaming companies use sturdier plastic because the minis get manhandled on the table. I'm understanding though because due to legal reasons PB isn't allowed to make a true tabletop war game without getting themselves and HG into legal hot water with studio nue.

They make better showpiece models than gaming pieces.

[CoreyD]

Really? The reason they made those 100000 piece kits is bc of studio nue?

It really only hurts them to make the kits so hard to assemble. If they were quick and easy, people would be buying more to army build. More purchases, more money for palladium, more fun for the players, everybody wins.

Nope, didn't happen

[jenius]

I think the implication was there might be a lawsuit by the battletech folks.

[renegadeleader1]

I think the implication was there might be a lawsuit by the battletech folks.

I think the implication is that a lot of people will make assumptions about the robotech legal situation without knowing any of the facts or doing any research.

1.When HG made the deal with Tatsunoko they got full international merchandising rights outside of Japan for anything to do with the original tv series only. Merchandising being model kits, toys, comics etc. After all the lawsuits and settlements in Japan this remains uncontested because it was part of the deal Big West/Studio Nue made with Tatsunoko originally to help get them to fund Macross in the first place.

2.Nobody with any connection with Battletech has a leg to stand on when it comes to the Macross desgins. FASA never actually had a legitimate license for the designs after being scammed by 21st Century imports who had no connection to either Tatsunoko or Big West. This came out when FASA sued Playmates over Exosquad and Playmates brought in HG in a counter claim. FASA then volountarily removed all non FASA created designs(including the crusher joe and dougram ones etc) to avoid legal troubles.

Edited September 2, 2015 by renegadeleader1

[Gubaba]

[jenius]

I totally concur, not sure why SN or FASA (I think that was the acronym) would have any legal grounds to stop HG from making game pieces... just trying to interpret what was being said.

[azrael]

Maybe I missed this part, but why did PB make the miniatures as "some assembly required"? Why not make solid 1-piece game pieces. If they're gonna be manhandled, then why make them poseable?

[JB0]

Oh the decals are hilarious too.

The WHAT?

That's just... oh my god, what were they thinking?

[renegadeleader1]

Maybe I missed this part, but why did PB make the miniatures as "some assembly required"? Why not make solid 1-piece game pieces. If they're gonna be manhandled, then why make them poseable?

That's pretty much the way its always kind of been going back to the days when table top wargaming figures were made of lead and pewter. For one thing it was always easier to manufacter in multiple pieces with less of a chance of defects ruining the whole figure if the moulding didn't turn out right. This also enabled a bit of dynamic posing which if you are going through the effort of preparing, building, and custom painting a figure is something you look forward too.

Still there is a big difference between the 6 or 7 metal pieces that allow for things like a head looking a certain way or a torso twist, the 15 or so plastic pieces that make up a Warhammer space marine, and these Robotech figures. The elephant in the room is the fact that I believe HG and PB were trying to kill two birds with one stone by making a universal design they could upscale with little effort to make normal model kits and it blew up in their faces.

[VF-0RC]

Maybe I missed this part, but why did PB make the miniatures as "some assembly required"? Why not make solid 1-piece game pieces. If they're gonna be manhandled, then why make them poseable?

Because Kevin and his crew had no clue that there is a difference between wargaming miniature and multipart model, also "mouthwatering detail."

[Einherjar]

Did anyone here back the project to actually support the wargame/RPG these figures were intended to be used for?

[VF-0RC]

I did.

[cypherxv]

I did too. I come from a wargaming background.

As to why PB had to make models issue... Well it came up in a discussion on the PB boards and one of Kevin's lackeys came in posting that PB had certain limits on the size and type of product PB could make. For legal reasons PB could not make RT miniatures or toys or a true wargame. PB's license is for roleplaying products and RPG products only. I'll try to look for the post. Unfortunately many were deleted by their mods because it paints rrt and PB in an unfavorable light.

[jenius]

That sounds like licensing reasons, not legal reasons. Toynami has the license for toys so maybe that was the complication but that seems like a stretch.

[azrael]

As to why PB had to make models issue... Well it came up in a discussion on the PB boards and one of Kevin's lackeys came in posting that PB had certain limits on the size and type of product PB could make. For legal reasons PB could not make RT miniatures or toys or a true wargame. PB's license is for roleplaying products and RPG products only. I'll try to look for the post. Unfortunately many were deleted by their mods because it paints rrt and PB in an unfavorable light.

For some reason, that doesn't make much sense.

...The elephant in the room is the fact that I believe HG and PB were trying to kill two birds with one stone by making a universal design they could upscale with little effort to make normal model kits and it blew up in their faces.

Yeah, that never works. Look at Gunpla. A 1/144 version of a product compared to a 1/100 of the same product will always be different.

[Ghadrack]

Did anyone here back the project to actually support the wargame/RPG these figures were intended to be used for?

I did not. I'm a huge cynic and use kickstarter carefully. But when a product was delivered I got a copy retail and have bought tons of boxes of the expansion figs. As an original 80's (OG dog!) run on TV Southern California Robotech kid who used to run home from school to catch episodes, came to Macross and anime fandom as a direct result I know the HG / RT / Big West history pretty well and had my doubts about the Kickstarter.

[Einherjar]

I had this whole analytical thing I wanted to write, but it's getting late. The important parts though were, I thought save for, I guess, true believers people like cypherxv and VF-0RC, everyone was trying to take advantage of everyone else in the fundraising phase for their own uses for the the figures outside of Palladium's original intent (Battletech conversions, personal collections, etc.). It contributed to a ridiculous ending with overblown expectations, and in the actual development and delivery phase it ended up screwing everyone and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. It all sounds vaguely familiar.

^ Not correct. HG has been involved by reviewing everything before it was sent to production. And this tedious process has even likely contributed to the delays.

After seeing what kind products HG approved for using their trademarks recently, now more than ever do I not think they are a reliable source of quality control in general. Skate boards, people! Their involvement here could have been just rubber stamping whatever came their way. But let me guess, this is how Kevin Siembieda or someone affiliated with him/Palladium explained the process?

Edited September 3, 2015 by Einherjar

[Gubaba]

I had this whole analytical thing I wanted to write, but it's getting late. The important parts though were, I thought save for, I guess, true believers people like cypherxv and VF-0RC, everyone was trying to take advantage of everyone else in the fundraising phase for their own uses for the the figures outside of Palladium's original intent (Battletech conversions, personal collections, etc.). It contributed to a ridiculous ending with overblown expectations, and in the actual development and delivery phase it ended up screwing everyone and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. It all sounds vaguely familiar.

But Palladium was banking on people using the figures for other purposes, right? I mean, why else pick a scale that works with Battletech but doesn't work with the other RT "generations"?

Edited September 3, 2015 by Gubaba

[VF-0RC]

I had this whole analytical thing I wanted to write, but it's getting late. The important parts though were, I thought save for, I guess, true believers people like cypherxv and VF-0RC, everyone was trying to take advantage of everyone else in the fundraising phase for their own uses for the the figures outside of Palladium's original intent (Battletech conversions, personal collections, etc.). It contributed to a ridiculous ending with overblown expectations, and in the actual development and delivery phase it ended up screwing everyone and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. It all sounds vaguely familiar.

After seeing what kind products HG approved for using their trademarks recently, now more than ever do I not think they are a reliable source of quality control in general. Skate boards, people! Their involvement here could have been just rubber stamping whatever came their way. But let me guess, this is how Kevin Siembieda or someone affiliated with him/Palladium explained the process?

Whoa...whoa...whoa. What have I posted that would lead you to believe I am a true believer? I wasn't playing Battletech when the unseens were still seen, and while I had backed it originally to use the minis with PB's Robotech RPG, I have no intention of using that game system at this time. In any case there is still a sizable number of people who bought in to play the wargame itself, some of whom are actually playing it.

But, yes, I think in at least one of the updates it was implied or stated that some of the early delays were caused by HG taking their sweet time reviewing everything. But they've been blaming everyone that isn't PB for all the delays, including using the backers as an excuse for why they aren't updating regularly enough.

But Palladium was banking on people using the figures for other purposes, right? I mean, why else pick a scale that works with Battletech but doesn't work with the other RT "generations"?

Well if they used 15mm scale we'd have 4-5 inch tall Macross minis. I think that compatibility with Battletech was a component, but I also think that Kevin's total inexperience with wargaming and how scales work were also at work in that decision.

[azrael]

After seeing what kind products HG approved for using their trademarks recently, now more than ever do I not think they are a reliable source of quality control in general. Skate boards, people! Their involvement here could have been just rubber stamping whatever came their way. But let me guess, this is how Kevin Siembieda or someone affiliated with him/Palladium explained the process?

And after watching the Q&A from their AX2015 panel, HG doesn't even care that their licensees make crap products. The one guy who got the question in about the QC on the toys was basically told by McKeever to go work it out with the toy maker, not HG. It's why I see HG's involvement in a project like this is as so minor, I do not consider it a factor into any delays.

[Ghadrack]

We should also consider the topic, I think many of us have Robotech / Macross - HG / Big West opinions. This thread is really supposed to be about the game, pieces quality, etc. We do have a thread for our HG hate (or love)

On topic, I'm shocked given the money they had access to and futur Kickstarter windfalls they didn't pay to consult with groups like Reaper miniatures who had kickstarter and Chinese manufacturing experience or hire away one of their employees to run things. It's a no brainer, get help to make a mint when you get the chance....

Edited September 3, 2015 by Ghadrack

[VF-0RC]

On topic, I'm shocked given the money they had access to and futur Kickstarter windfalls they didn't pay to consult with groups like Reaper miniatures who had kickstarter and Chinese manufacturing experience or hire away one of their employees to run things. It's a no brainer, get help to make a mint when you get the chance....

For real. But I think that is what PB thought they were getting by partnering with Ninja Division.

[TheLoneWolf]

That sounds like licensing reasons, not legal reasons. Toynami has the license for toys so maybe that was the complication but that seems like a stretch.

Actually, I think you may on to something. Harmony Gold designated Toynami as its exclusive distributor of all Robotech/Macross toys, but not model kits. If Palladium released fully assembled unpainted miniatures, that might've fallen under Toynami's purview, since that type of product would more resemble a small toy rather than a true model kit. While Palladium could've worked out a distribution agreement with Toynami, that would've been another added expense on top of their licensing agreement with Harmony Gold. So Palladium probably decided to make true model kits in order to avoid Toynami and save money. But their mistake here was making overly ambitious and complex models instead of settling for simple 6 or 7 piece model kits.

[EXO]

So what are the odds that if or when they fulfill the Kickstarter orders that the product/game will die off? Or is there any chance of the game to continue to develop?

[CoreyD]

Hard to continue and grow a game that's initial difficulty is simply getting the play pieces assembled.

[VF-0RC]

So what are the odds that if or when they fulfill the Kickstarter orders that the product/game will die off? Or is there any chance of the game to continue to develop?

Outlook poor. There are reports from all over that the products that are out on shelves aren't moving.

[EXO]

Is there a link where Wave 1 and Wave 2 details are listed? I'm looking at the Kickstarter page and all they have are the goals and a lot of the banners with links are broken. Actually all of them are gone.

[Ghadrack]

IMO, having played through the book, the game is not much more than a Warhammer 40K / Battletech hybrid cultivated for a niche market and with a pretty meager launch. I've had the same typical rules lawyering fights over Line of Sight, range, , cover, fire arcs, etc. that I've had with damn near every other tabletop miniature strategy game out there. If there is some kind of Robotech Renaissance with a big anime re-release or something that draws in a bunch of young people to the franchise, maybe, otherwise, unless they can turn a profit on the minis and expansions it is DOOMED.

I hope the wave 2 miniatures materialize, I'll buy a ton of them because I love models and miniatures and this is my perfect little wonderland, but I don't see the game being original enough or super fun enough to differentiate itself enough to overcome all of the things it has going against it long term.

I hope I'm wrong, it would be pretty awesome if they thrived, improved and offered a neat and extensive line of Southern Cross and Mospeada miniatures, I'd be jazzed