Robotech RPG Tactics Kickstarter

[areaseven]

So this is the official Robotech version of the YF-4 that Rick was playing with at the end of the First Generation:

Now that looks like crap. And anyone who quotes that picture above should be temp-banned for stupidity.

[Einherjar]

The back end of the thrusters somehow rotate 180 degrees to get to Gerwalk and Battriod mode? How do you animate that? I'm having a hard time figuring out how the parts move from one form to another.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Einherjar

[areaseven]

I'm having a hard time figuring out how the parts move from one form to another.

I'm having a hard time figuring out why we have to see this monstrosity again.

[1st Border Red Devil]

Gee, they make a version of the VF-4 that they could legally use and people call it stupid. Can you people be any less predictable?

[EXO]

It's kinda hard not to see it coming. I mean it's ugly. But look at the bright side... no one in hell will ever take that to litigation.

[Einherjar]

Gee, they make a version of the VF-4 that they could legally use and people call it stupid. Can you people be any less predictable?

What's wrong with just wondering how a transformable mecha design is actually supposed to work, coming from a show whose real creators painstakingly made that a priority?

[sketchley]

The design (in the sense of the arrangement/conservation of parts) isn't bad. The finishing details leave a bit to be desired.

The back end of the thrusters somehow rotate 180 degrees to get to Gerwalk and Battriod mode? How do you animate that? I'm having a hard time figuring out how the parts move from one form to another.

If I'm understanding it correctly:

- the front of the top of the engine nacelles swivel on the inner wing, expand and become the arms.

- the lower part of the engine nacelles slide inwards, underneath the inner wings (eventually connecting to the fuselage, like the VF-1, and rotating to become the legs)

- the rear of the top of the engine nacelles slide along the top of the inner wings. They don't rotate. Why are there circular fronts? Probably to a) be visually different from the VF-4 (Macross), b) give the impression of fuel tanks (akin to what the VE-1's FAST Packs did) and c) give a visual nod to the Alpha Fighter (sorry, the correct Mospeada name eludes me at the time of writing).

For me, the part that lets me down is the legs. I know they're limited by the original designs, but those bulbous shin guards don't do it for me.

[Mommar]

Actually, it appears this transformation is a combination of the VF-2SS and the unofficial VF-4 transformation seen in that Macross 2 video game (that I cannot recall, or find the name for) that essentially mimed the look of the VF-1... for Battroid anyway. I don't think it looks fantastic, but they're working with the prototype style which rounds out everything in odd ways the more boxy VF-4 in the Mac2 did not which made it resemble the VF-1 a lot more.

They could have done a lot worse then they did. I don't think the pose of battroid mode is very flattering.

[Hoptimus]

Hey man it is good to have an opinion but that is just as bad as people spamming up "your" threads.

On topic people.

Now that looks like crap. And anyone who quotes that picture above should be temp-banned for stupidity.

[terry the lone wolf]

Reminds me of the Axerod from the Robotech Defenders..

http://www.karridian.net/robotech_defenders.html

[Knight26]

Wow, a really inelligent design. And is that an Alpha head on it?

[CoryHolmes]

Wow, a really inelligent design. And is that an Alpha head on it?

It does look like it. I never noticed that before.

[Mommar]

Looks like they based the transformation on some of fan art (or flat-out stole it...)

http://beta.robotech.com/community/fan/art/viewfanart.php?id=2438

Edited October 19, 2013 by Mommar

[VF-15 Banshee]

Has Doug Bendo made a three hour podcast about this yet?

[areaseven]

Looks like they based the transformation on some of fan art (or flat-out stole it...)

http://beta.robotech.com/community/fan/art/viewfanart.php?id=2438

How disappointing. I thought it was based on MGREXX's artwork from 10 years back.

[1st Border Red Devil]

Wow, a really inelligent design. And is that an Alpha head on it?

Has the 6Z head, but I do notice that its says "not the final artwork", so it will probably change before production (I would assume). I figured they would go with Tommy's VF-1R head.....

[TheLoneWolf]

So this is the official Robotech version of the YF-4 that Rick was playing with at the end of the First Generation:

Ugh, that's just not a very practical, or even aesthetically pleasing, design. The hands are redundant since those giant intakes are going to get in the way of it grabbing anything. And I don't know how the legs in fighter mode are supposed to move all the way over to the nosecone in battloid mode. There's a fair bit of anime magic involved in the old Macross designs, but this one takes the cake. And like the others said, I'm not a fan of the round leg design. The upper body consists mostly of hard edges and angles, then the legs get all bulbous.

Good thing this is only a draft, it'll need more work.

[Einherjar]

Their deadline is less than two months away and, unfortunately, I don't think mechanical details like that are a priority. I have to keep reminding myself that whatever "original" designs end up in this game, it will pretty much only exist in this game like the previous ones done by Palladium or in very brief, static cameos in future works (should people get lucky). They'll never have to seriously explain functionality.

[NeoverseOmega]

That's funny, if this were a transformer I'd say, hmmm, nice homage to to the VF-4, VF-1, and Legioss, and it would make a decent deluxe.

Being as this is supposed to be tied to those ACTUAL units, um, it doesn't work so well. Sadly, its about what I'd expect - most attempts at original Robotech designs I've seen seriously looked like they just cut up the Legioss and Valkyrie and made a franken-fighter out of them. The basic transformation scheme looks workable, its the aesthetic choices that bug me the most (bulbous legs, inelegant joint covers, the attempt to force it to resemble the VF-1 and Alpha).

Both the Legioss and the VF series achieved a unity of design between the three modes, the lines of the robot very much resembled the lines of the fighter and the parts were integrated.

This looks a bit more like robot parts pulled out of a jet, and the parts don't fit together terribly well.

At the same time, if they actually practiced and floated around more ideas they could improve considerably - even Kamawori's "breast fighters" looked a little cheesy even if they were mechanically pretty impressive. The problem seems to be that (historically speaking anyway) Robotech related designers neither pay attention to criticism nor make enough assays at mechanical design to really get better. Just rehashing what has already been done or touching it up with a few different colors and weapon systems doesn't help you deal with the problem of how to get the lines and forms from the fighter to match up with the lines and forms of the robot.

Being that they probably don't have aerospace or engineering backgrounds, a transformer like design is really not surprising- it's just disappointing when the mechanical designs that went together to make Robotech were, at least in my opinion as a child, ANTI transformer designs.

(Yes, I was one of those poor children that grew up on Robotech and didn't know anything about the source material until college, so I have this weird love/hate relationship with the series).

Nonetheless, if they actually kept at it, sought out criticism from people who have a knack or interest in these things, they could improve quite a bit. Concentrated effort towards figuring out what it would take to refresh the series would go a long way if there were anyone even remotely interested in listening.

Heh, granted we all know better, but I still like to imagine sometimes. It's that love/hate thing.

Either way, I am glad to see them at least try to create something instead of simply knocking off other peoples work (even if none of them designed that fighter!)

Granted, considering the progression of technology in robotech, in-between generations would almost HAVE to be bizarre mishmashes . . . . if they redesigned everything from the beginning and followed a progression of improvement from that it could work, but they would have to get a grasp of handling transforming machines first (this is something).

I find digging through jet designs and looking at ways the parts might fit a or contain a robot can be pretty inspiring - perhaps looking outside of robotech could help them improve robotech.

That and maybe then they can leave macross alone . . . . .

[Lorindor]

Looks like they based the transformation on some of fan art (or flat-out stole it...)

http://beta.robotech.com/community/fan/art/viewfanart.php?id=2438

I might have missed some irony, but how is that even closely resembling the new transformation mechanism?

[Mommar]

I might have missed some irony, but how is that even closely resembling the new transformation mechanism?

Possibly look harder? Other than pushing the thrusters up farther and angling the wings up in Gerwalk they're the same. Battroid as well, just a different style head. I said "based on" I didn't say "100% replica" but they're extremely similar.

[sketchley]

Possibly look harder? Other than pushing the thrusters up farther and angling the wings up in Gerwalk they're the same. Battroid as well, just a different style head. I said "based on" I didn't say "100% replica" but they're extremely similar.

I'm with Lorindor.

There's only so many ways to convert a fighter aircraft in that configuration into a robot. It's really no stretch to say that the designers of both Robotech versions based theirs on the Macross VF-4, yes?

[raptormesh]

Looks like a TF jet, like one of the deluxes.

[Mommar]

I'm with Lorindor.

There's only so many ways to convert a fighter aircraft in that configuration into a robot. It's really no stretch to say that the designers of both Robotech versions based theirs on the Macross VF-4, yes?

If you're assuming the 2036 non-cannon video game transformation, yes it's similar. Though that was based on the actual VF-4 and not the semi-goofy, short neck YF-4. However, that fan drawing looks a lot like the final one here. Seriously, look at Gerwalk. Push the legs forward, the packs forward and change the shape of the shoulder. Same thing.

Now, there are only so many ways to do it and if it were closer to how the actual VF-4 transforms they'd likely have a lawsuit. I just thought that old fan art and the actual design are interesting for being pretty similar. The connotation it was "stolen" is merely a jab at Harmony Gold... you know, because of Robotech.

[Einherjar]

That's funny, if this were a transformer I'd say, hmmm, nice homage to to the VF-4, VF-1, and Legioss, and it would make a decent deluxe.

Being as this is supposed to be tied to those ACTUAL units, um, it doesn't work so well. Sadly, its about what I'd expect - most attempts at original Robotech designs I've seen seriously looked like they just cut up the Legioss and Valkyrie and made a franken-fighter out of them. The basic transformation scheme looks workable, its the aesthetic choices that bug me the most (bulbous legs, inelegant joint covers, the attempt to force it to resemble the VF-1 and Alpha).

Both the Legioss and the VF series achieved a unity of design between the three modes, the lines of the robot very much resembled the lines of the fighter and the parts were integrated.

This looks a bit more like robot parts pulled out of a jet, and the parts don't fit together terribly well.

At the same time, if they actually practiced and floated around more ideas they could improve considerably - even Kamawori's "breast fighters" looked a little cheesy even if they were mechanically pretty impressive. The problem seems to be that (historically speaking anyway) Robotech related designers neither pay attention to criticism nor make enough assays at mechanical design to really get better. Just rehashing what has already been done or touching it up with a few different colors and weapon systems doesn't help you deal with the problem of how to get the lines and forms from the fighter to match up with the lines and forms of the robot.

Being that they probably don't have aerospace or engineering backgrounds, a transformer like design is really not surprising- it's just disappointing when the mechanical designs that went together to make Robotech were, at least in my opinion as a child, ANTI transformer designs.

(Yes, I was one of those poor children that grew up on Robotech and didn't know anything about the source material until college, so I have this weird love/hate relationship with the series).

Nonetheless, if they actually kept at it, sought out criticism from people who have a knack or interest in these things, they could improve quite a bit. Concentrated effort towards figuring out what it would take to refresh the series would go a long way if there were anyone even remotely interested in listening.

Heh, granted we all know better, but I still like to imagine sometimes. It's that love/hate thing.

Either way, I am glad to see them at least try to create something instead of simply knocking off other peoples work (even if none of them designed that fighter!)

Granted, considering the progression of technology in robotech, in-between generations would almost HAVE to be bizarre mishmashes . . . . if they redesigned everything from the beginning and followed a progression of improvement from that it could work, but they would have to get a grasp of handling transforming machines first (this is something).

I find digging through jet designs and looking at ways the parts might fit a or contain a robot can be pretty inspiring - perhaps looking outside of robotech could help them improve robotech.

Remember though that this is just a RPG/tabletop game where people's imaginations are supposed to help smooth out such problems or inconsistencies like a weirdly constructed plastic figure. Palladium doesn't have to do all of that for gameplay purposes and due to their medium. You'll need to look to somewhere else for something more concrete.

But yes, from our standpoint it does feel like a copout.

[skullmilitia]

So that's what the Derpy brother of the VF-4 looks like.

It's so un-appealing.

[Scyla]

At first I was intending to write that you have to judge the design on it's own merits. That people are biased because the VF-4 has now an official Kawamori-approved Gerwalk- and Battroid-Mode. That the YF-4 Veritech follows a different design that branched off from Macross after SDF-1.

Then I looked some more at the pictures and realized that it was really derpy looking.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Scyla

[terry the lone wolf]

It's no more uglier than those early Breasts Fighter designs for Megaroad..

[peter]

Maybe it will make an appearance in the Robotech/Voltron crossover and look better...............................................bwahahahahahahahahaha!

[Knight26]

So I've had some time to look over the design some more. It is very transformer in style, not very macross. However, I can understand why the went the route they did with it. The designer was attempting to bridge the gap between the VF-1 Valkyrie and the VA-6 Alpha. There are elements of both in their design, crammed into the original YF-4 airframe. I find the leg collapsing system interesting, and draws alot from the VF-1 leg delivery system but instead of using pistons it uses folding arms. The rest of the oragami in the transformation is illogical however, especially the backpacks, since I see no way for them to move up onto the back like that. Then there is the VA-6 style head that clearly could not fit through whatever gap is generated when the fuselage splits in half. I also see a lot of proportion changes between modes. Overall, I would give it a D grade.

[Gubaba]

It's no more uglier than those early Breasts Fighter designs for Megaroad..

Which is one of the reasons they were changed before production, of course.

[CoreyD]

Dear lord, I just googled the Breast Fighter design. Never saw it before. I am soooo glad they changed that up.

[Scyla]

Dear lord, I just googled the Breast Fighter design. Never saw it before. I am soooo glad they changed that up.

Is it save to google that from work?

[areaseven]

[Scyla]

Cool I've never seen this before. Is this preproduction stuff from SDF-Macross? I'm sure this was mentioned before but it really looks like a Gundam in Waverider-Mode.