VOTOMS

[bsu legato]

Define "necessary." Sometime the trip itself is the entire point. For a 12 episode OVA prequel, I wasn't expecting any earth shattering revelations from Pailes Files. It works nicely as a supplement for the original TV series, and is far more faithful in terms of story and tone than some other big name prequels in recent years.

[VF-Zero]

Takar 1/18 looks good. Anyone has anymore pics of Takara/Tomy: 1/18 DMZ-06 Scopedog with Chirico Cuvie (microman) ?

[Abnolds]

Does anyone have any idea where I could get a MAP-03(Vanila with turbo parts)? I've scoured the internet and I can't find it anywhere.

[Roger]

Define "necessary." Sometime the trip itself is the entire point.

Okay, what made this trip worthwhile for you?

For a 12 episode OVA prequel, I wasn't expecting any earth shattering revelations from Pailes Files.

The last VOTOMS outing (Heretic Saint) was only five episodes long and accomplished a lot.

This one, not so much. All of the extraneous characters except for Chirico, Peruzen, and Lushke/Rochina are wiped off of the board at the end, and we really don't learn anything significant about any of them.

The only thing that I consider interesting (and this is some major reading between the lines) is the idea that Monad was the site of another Wiseman-like being, and the whole thing was orchestrated by Wiseman to wipe it out.

The bit about Zaki being artificially created and his violent fugue states (similar to Chirico's) seem to be just more red herrings, too. I was hoping that he would turn out to be the baby Peruzen blew out into space.

And then there are the continuity problems created, like how Chirico doesn't recognize Lushke/Rochina when he meets him in the TV series, and nobody else in the Gilgamesh military seems to know who Chirico is, even though his image was broadcast all over the place when the Monad campaign was ramping up.

Add to that CGI that really doesn't rise above the level of a video game cutscene and I ask again, "Was this trip really necessary?"

Edited September 10, 2008 by Roger

[drifand]

Well, speaking as a fan of the toys first, and who hasn't watched ANY VOTOMS before, the Pailsen Files were at least... entertaining. I found the OP music super nostalgic but didn't really enjoy the CG treatment at all. But I fun the ride run and would seek out the older works when I have time.

[ChrisG]

While I love the original TV series and OVAs, Pailsen files just leaves me cold.

I only watched up to ep # 6, but just couldn't get into it at all. It's a shame, cus' I really wanted to like this OVA.

Part of the problem for me anyway, is that ATs need to be cell animated. Unlike Valks, which actually look good in CG, ATs in Pailsen files look like they come from an early PS2 cut scene movie.

Graham

I would agree with you on the CG, but unfortunately, our preferences don't really matter in the long run. The sad truth is that eventually an even larger number of mecha shows will feature CG rather than cel animated mecha. I'm surprised Gundam has managed to hold out so long with its TV series, but I suspect even it too will succumb to CG mecha someday.

[Roger]

I would agree with you on the CG, but unfortunately, our preferences don't really matter in the long run. The sad truth is that eventually an even larger number of mecha shows will feature CG rather than cel animated mecha. I'm surprised Gundam has managed to hold out so long with its TV series, but I suspect even it too will succumb to CG mecha someday.

Why, though? CGI doesn't seem to offer any obvious aesthetic advantages, especially after watching this show. I think the animators have a long way to go before they can give mecha the kind of screen presence that they exhibit in 2-D animated productions for the last 25 years. The VOTOMS moved around like they had no weight to them, and their movements were too smooth.

And AFAIK, they've been using CGI on Gundam since Gundam SEED. Bandai even uses the meshes to create their 3-D products nowadays. True single-sourcing.

Edited September 11, 2008 by Roger

[Daigoro]

Unfortunately I think CGI will become prevalent for the same reason it has become so dominant in live-action movies -- to save money! For the Spiderman movies, they even used CGI for the alley fight against human thugs. I read about one of the stuntmen complaining that they were set to do the fight scene the old fashion way, but the director or the producer decided to animate Spider-man with CGI instead of using a stunt double -- not because it looked better, but because it was actually CHEAPER than doing it with wire work.

As for the Pailsen Files, I too thought that -- in spite of the awesomely depressing opening "Saving Private Ryan" sequence, the series was pretty mediocre dramatically. The exception was the final episode.

- FINAL EPISODE SPOILERS BELOW -

For some reason, the members of the Perfect Soldier -- er, "Abnormal Survivor" unit -- discovering that they were, in fact, mortal was very moving to me. Normally death in VOTOMS doesn't really register with me because troopers get slaughtered by the dozen, and in this OVA series the death toll seems to run into the thousands. But in the final episode, the deaths of Chirico's squad members seemed much more horrible to me because they had convinced themselves they were immortal.

One continuity thing bothers me though. I seem to remember in the original TV series that in the beginning, Chirico doesn't know he is a PS. After what happens in Pailsen Files, how could he NOT realize that he is a freak? Did he lose his memory again? It was so long ago that I watched it that I can't remember.

Edited September 11, 2008 by Daigoro

[Roger]

One continuity thing bothers me though. I seem to remember in the original TV series that in the beginning, Chirico doesn't know he is a PS. After what happens in Pailsen Files, how could he NOT realize that he is a freak? Did he lose his memory again? It was so long ago that I watched it that I can't remember.

Wow, you're right, I totally forgot about this. When Chirico beats Ypsilon in the TV series he has this revelation, but now Palisen Files showed that he already figured this out.

One more strike against this. ;p

[ChrisG]

Why, though? CGI doesn't seem to offer any obvious aesthetic advantages, especially after watching this show. I think the animators have a long way to go before they can give mecha the kind of screen presence that they exhibit in 2-D animated productions for the last 25 years. The VOTOMS moved around like they had no weight to them, and their movements were too smooth.

And AFAIK, they've been using CGI on Gundam since Gundam SEED. Bandai even uses the meshes to create their 3-D products nowadays. True single-sourcing.

Yes, Bandai used limited CG on SEED, but all the mecha combat was still traditional animation. I just don't like to see full CD mixed with 2D cel animation because it doesn't match. Even in Pailsen Files, the CG is pretty crappy early on and doesn't improve until much later on. Also, good animation will age much better than CG ever will. The CG used in shows like the first season of Initial D (1998) is horrendous compared to what you see in the fourth season (2005). In the case of Pailsen Files, supposedly Sunrise insisted on CG combat over the staff's objection. If CG is seen as the "new" thing, directors may not have much choice, even if that CG is pretty meh, as it was for the beginning of Pailsen Files.

[Graham]

IMO, about the only animes where the mecha look great in GC are Macross Zero and Macross Frontier, but I may have a slight bias.

Graham

[ChrisG]

IMO, about the only animes where the mecha look great in GC are Macross Zero and Macross Frontier, but I may have a slight bias.

Graham

Even with Macross Zero, as great as the CG was, they were also inconsistent and did some mecha combat in regular animation. That's one of the things that annoyed me about the production of that series - if you're going to do the mecha in CG, keep it that way 100% of the time. Also, Zero was a big budget short OVA, so obviously they can devote more money to making the CG look good. Even though Pailsen Files was also an OVA, they had to stretch that budget to cover 12 episodes compared to Zero's 5. Although I don't know how much Frontier costs, for the most part its animation looks better than the average TV show. For many other mecha shows with CG, I've noticed it's either usually "meh" or starts out kind of mediocre and doesn't improve until much later on (ie SRWOG Divine Wars).

[Roger]

Regarding this:

Unfortunately I think CGI will become prevalent for the same reason it has become so dominant in live-action movies -- to save money!

Is this also the case with 2-D vs. 3-D animation, though? Does it really save time and money when you consider the personnel involved, the type of expertise, and the equipment? There are a couple of industry people I can ask about this.

[mpchi]

Regarding this:

Is this also the case with 2-D vs. 3-D animation, though? Does it really save time and money when you consider the personnel involved, the type of expertise, and the equipment? There are a couple of industry people I can ask about this.

It is, when you actually animate. 3D, you can always tweak and redo a shot, set it up at a slightly different angle, change timing however you want. 2D, you can't. And if the motion or timing didn't turn out too good, you have to redraw a lot of frames one at a time, rather than clicking the mouse and pull some slider in a 3D animation software.

[AIRMAG]

Hey guys, just a heads up on a 1/48 votoms sale at HLJ

http://www.hlj.com/product/TKT78336

Is it safe to say that this is as good or even better than the ultimate' 1/48 AG-N01 Next ATM-09-DD Burglarydog in terms of interior/pilot paint detail and quality? Im hoping so since it was released after the 1/48 Burglarydog ...anyway should i bite?

[Roger]

The Scopedog in this set does not use the AG Next tooling, it's the original first version AG Scopedog.

The third AG Next Scopedog is being solicited for pre-orders:

http://www.hlj.com/product/TKT31246

[AIRMAG]

The Scopedog in this set does not use the AG Next tooling, it's the original first version AG Scopedog.

The third AG Next Scopedog is being solicited for pre-orders:

http://www.hlj.com/product/TKT31246

Gottcha, thanks for clarifying........any clue what type the 1/48 AG-N03 Scopedog will be?

[Roger]

It's on the official page here:

http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/products/votom...ctic_index.html

There's also an AG-N04, but they both look like they're just Scopedogs with the same old stuff included.

Not as cool as a Mak.Po, of course. ;p

[promethuem5]

The 1/48 figures are really a disappointment IMO... I can't imagine how the Next mold is, with even more fiddly bits.

[AIRMAG]

It's on the official page here:

http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/products/votom...ctic_index.html

There's also an AG-N04, but they both look like they're just Scopedogs with the same old stuff included.

Not as cool as a Mak.Po, of course. ;p

I really want a 1/48 AG-N01 Next ATM-09-DD Burglarydog but i cant find one anywhere...

Oh and your right, nothing is as cool as a Mak.Po!

Edited October 11, 2008 by titob0y

[AIRMAG]

Anyone have the 1/48 AG-PF02 Pailsen Files 02 Figures? Are the pilots and cockpits fully painted ?

[Roger]

I don't, but that set was priced about the same as the previous Scopedog/Fatty set, and they barely have any paint on the outside.

[AIRMAG]

I don't, but that set was priced about the same as the previous Scopedog/Fatty set, and they barely have any paint on the outside.

Hey thanks for the heads up! I'm also considering the Takara RDM-03

Are these any good?

[drifand]

Hey thanks for the heads up! I'm also considering the Takara RDM-03

Are these any good?

The RDM-3 is probably the best ever issue/re-issue of the classic Takara 1/24 Scopedog toy. As long as you understand that this is from the time of the 1/55 Chunky-monkey era, what you get is a highly detailed and durable classic toy complete with fully painted standing/seated pilot figures... which has never been done before for any 1/24 Scopedog Dual Model. The bonus is a fold out poster with original art by Kunio Ohkawara... No CGI can't beat that that painted funkiness!

[AIRMAG]

The RDM-3 is probably the best ever issue/re-issue of the classic Takara 1/24 Scopedog toy. As long as you understand that this is from the time of the 1/55 Chunky-monkey era, what you get is a highly detailed and durable classic toy complete with fully painted standing/seated pilot figures... which has never been done before for any 1/24 Scopedog Dual Model. The bonus is a fold out poster with original art by Kunio Ohkawara... No CGI can't beat that that painted funkiness!

Hey Drifand! Thanks for the helpful overview! Looks like im getting me a Takara RDM-3

[mpchi]

Hey Drifand! Thanks for the helpful overview! Looks like im getting me a Takara RDM-3

If you are looking for a Takara RDM-3 Red Shoulder custom, I have one in excellent condition (displayed a bit, rarely played with, has everything) that I am looking to part with. PM me if you are interested.

[AIRMAG]

If you are looking for a Takara RDM-3 Red Shoulder custom, I have one in excellent condition (displayed a bit, rarely played with, has everything) that I am looking to part with. PM me if you are interested.

Sent

[AIRMAG]

Hmm...while im at it...anyone have a spare 1/48 AG-N01 Next ATM-09-DD Burglarydog they'd be willing to part with? If so let me know what you'd be willing to let yours go for.

Edited October 20, 2008 by titob0y

[Roger]

Sorry, I don't, but I do have some other AGs which I'll sell for retail, as well as all three RDMs which I'm willing to let go for half retail if you'll buy all three.

Send me a PM if interested.

[Graham]

Saw the two versions of Yamato's RC 1/24 scale IR battle Scopedogs are now out. Saw them in Animate for HK$980 each (approx US$126 each).

Very cool. Love to have these so I could have RC scope dog battles with my son.

Graham

[AIRMAG]

Saw the two versions of Yamato's RC 1/24 scale IR battle Scopedogs are now out. Saw them in Animate for HK$980 each (approx US$126 each).

Very cool. Love to have these so I could have RC scope dog battles with my son.

Graham

RC Scopedogs?

Do you know if they will have an opening cockpit?

[bsu legato]

Attention! Shinsen Subs has just released a copy of The Last Red Shoulder. I'm downloading it now, and hopefully they'll go on to do the other OVAs. Maybe if we're lucky they'll even do Heretic Saint.

[promethuem5]

LRS is the only one that was already subbed and findable! It's an old VHS rip, but it's watchable... hopefully they do the other OVAs!

[Roger]

Damn, anyone have a good utility that converts MKVs to AVIs, or do you think they'll eventually release it in that format?

[bsu legato]

LRS is the only one that was already subbed and findable! It's an old VHS rip, but it's watchable... hopefully they do the other OVAs!

True, but this Shinsen version blows away the old fansub that was circulating the torrent sites. Its worth the re-download just for the improved image. I took a look at their web site and theres no mention of the other OVAs (other than somebody asking that very question on their forums).