Beginner's Model Building Construction BASICS

[modelglue]

I've heard that Vallejo always curdles if thinned with anything other than it's own brand of thinner and water. There are a couple of horror stories in certain modeling forums saying that if Vallejo curdles inside an AB, it might actually "kill" it by permanently gumming up the inner workings.

Yeah, it has curdled on me, using alcohol and windex. The part about it killing your airbrush is not true for me, I have had an Iwata HP-C for ten years and I have only run acrylic through it. No problems when I cleaned the gummed vallejo out. I have a cheap ultrasonic cleaner off ebay that I fill with windex and bath it in after every use. This is a new tool though, for the 9 out of 10 years I was running to the sink with it!

[GU-11]

Yeah, it has curdled on me, using alcohol and windex. The part about it killing your airbrush is not true for me, I have had an Iwata HP-C for ten years and I have only run acrylic through it. No problems when I cleaned the gummed vallejo out. I have a cheap ultrasonic cleaner off ebay that I fill with windex and bath it in after every use. This is a new tool though, for the 9 out of 10 years I was running to the sink with it!

It doesn't gum up with water, does it? Vallejo's acrylic thinners come in really small bottles, and it would be much easier to make do with (tap?) water in a pinch.

Speaking of water, I just read about airbrush users preferring to thin their acrylic paints and clean their airbrushes using distilled water. Something about calcification inside the airbrush. Sounds kind of ridiculous to me; I mean, you're not going to be soaking your AB in water or anything. Even when testing out the seal between the nozzle and needle after reassembly, you'll usually flush the water out of the chamber and blow-dry it for a few seconds, making sure the chamber's dry before setting the AB aside. Heck, I even flush a couple drops of methylated spirits through the AB to make sure any water droplets will be evaporated.

Edited October 9, 2014 by GU-11

[derex3592]

I've tried Vellejo, and it sprays beautifully. I followed the directions in their website and thinned with distilled water, cleaned up with Windex. No problems for me. I have started stirring my paint cup every few minutes these days if I'm airbrushing for awhile. Seems to help, no matter what type of paint you are using.

[GU-11]

I've tried Vellejo, and it sprays beautifully. I followed the directions in their website and thinned with distilled water, cleaned up with Windex. No problems for me. I have started stirring my paint cup every few minutes these days if I'm airbrushing for awhile. Seems to help, no matter what type of paint you are using.

That's wonderful news! Certainly saves me some money on thinner. I should also cultivate a habit of stirring the paint in my AB's cup. The thing is, I usually use no more than a few drops, so it's not easy to stiff such a small quantity.

[SchizophrenicMC]

I always thin Vallejo primer with ModelMaster Acyrlic thinner and I don't really have any problems- certainly nothing involving curdling.

Actually my only consistent paint problem is that my brush is built to very loose specifications, so it gets paint in all kinds of places that the seals should keep it out of, so it clogs up a lot, even with very thin paint. I should get an Iwata.

[Noyhauser]

It doesn't gum up with water, does it? Vallejo's acrylic thinners come in really small bottles, and it would be much easier to make do with (tap?) water in a pinch.

Speaking of water, I just read about airbrush users preferring to thin their acrylic paints and clean their airbrushes using distilled water. Something about calcification inside the airbrush. Sounds kind of ridiculous to me; I mean, you're not going to be soaking your AB in water or anything. Even when testing out the seal between the nozzle and needle after reassembly, you'll usually flush the water out of the chamber and blow-dry it for a few seconds, making sure the chamber's dry before setting the AB aside. Heck, I even flush a couple drops of methylated spirits through the AB to make sure any water droplets will be evaporated.

I run lacquer paint thinner through the AB and I use a pipe cleaner in the needle channel every time I finish. Keeps it nice and minty clean with no buildup at all.

[modelglue]

... I should get an Iwata.

I have the same problem with my HP-C. Maybe it is just age? I have taken it apart enough times now that the threads might be slightly worn to the point where the tolerances are null.

I should get a new set too.

[mickyg]

One comment regarding Acrylic paints. All acrylics are not the same. I'm sure that's no surprise to most here. But what I've found is that there seem to be those you can thin with water based stuff, and nothing else. And then there are those that you can thin with water, alcohol, windex, methylated spirits (which is another kind of alcohol), and *gasp* lacquer thinner. The types I've used, first hand that seem to gum up/coagulate with anything other than water or their own thinners, are Vallejo and Life Color paints. I suspect Model Master Acryl is another, but I haven't used these before, so can't comment. With the first two though, if you mix anything other than water or Testor's Acrylic thinner, I find the paint separates and becomes something awful.

Contrast that with Tamiya and Gunze aqueous Acrylics and it's a completely different story. You can use all of the thinners I've listed above and it all works. I most recently used Gunze's own "Mr Leveling Thinner" because I'd heard such good things about it and it was really, really good.

You can also dilute future with the Mr Leveling Thinner. I found putting clear colors directly into future gave me results that were less than stellar. Sometimes the paint would skin over on top of the future, or it'd require vigorous stirring to make sure it was all dissolved. If I thinned the paint first with leveling thinner, then added future, it was perfectly dissolved and distributed. Try it in a little plastic measuring cup first to see what I mean. I think it's one of those things that once you get it to work, you won't go back to other methods.

[GU-11]

I always thin Vallejo primer with ModelMaster Acyrlic thinner and I don't really have any problems- certainly nothing involving curdling.

Actually my only consistent paint problem is that my brush is built to very loose specifications, so it gets paint in all kinds of places that the seals should keep it out of, so it clogs up a lot, even with very thin paint. I should get an Iwata.

Sadly, it's very hard to find Model Master stuff where I'm at (Malaysia), and alcohol-based paints are nearly impossible to ship internationally these days.

Speaking of wear and tear, how long have you had your airbrush? I hear that it's a bad idea to tear down your AB for deep cleaning all the time, unless you have an airbrush with a drop-in (aka self-centering) nozzle, like the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS. Most times, flushing and wiping down the needle and nozzle are said to be good enough for at least another 2-5 paint sessions. In fact, the instructions manual for my Tamiya HG III specifically discourages constant dis-assembly.

I also hear that lip balm makes a good stop gap solution for worn seals. Just apply a little of it around any leaky joints. Tamiya sells a red sealant that sort of works like Teflon tape, which you apply onto the threads of a nozzle. It comes as part of a set called a cleaning kit. You can find it at hlj.

I run lacquer paint thinner through the AB and I use a pipe cleaner in the needle channel every time I finish. Keeps it nice and minty clean with no buildup at all.

I've been wanting to ask this for a long time: will using lacquer thinner for flushing and back-flushing eventually corrode the packing o-ring (aka the rubber seal that keeps the paint from flowing into the back of the AB)? Most modern AB's have Teflon o-rings, and I'm pretty sure my HG II and HP-CS do, but I still have my doubts. For now, I've only dared to back-flush using methylated spirits.

I've been using lacquer thinner to wipe down the needles and nozzles of airbrushes, though. Definitely cleans better than methylated spirits.

I have the same problem with my HP-C. Maybe it is just age? I have taken it apart enough times now that the threads might be slightly worn to the point where the tolerances are null.

I should get a new set too.

Have you tried sealing the joints with lip balm. Apparently, it works.

One comment regarding Acrylic paints. All acrylics are not the same. I'm sure that's no surprise to most here. But what I've found is that there seem to be those you can thin with water based stuff, and nothing else. And then there are those that you can thin with water, alcohol, windex, methylated spirits (which is another kind of alcohol), and *gasp* lacquer thinner. The types I've used, first hand that seem to gum up/coagulate with anything other than water or their own thinners, are Vallejo and Life Color paints. I suspect Model Master Acryl is another, but I haven't used these before, so can't comment. With the first two though, if you mix anything other than water or Testor's Acrylic thinner, I find the paint separates and becomes something awful.

Contrast that with Tamiya and Gunze aqueous Acrylics and it's a completely different story. You can use all of the thinners I've listed above and it all works. I most recently used Gunze's own "Mr Leveling Thinner" because I'd heard such good things about it and it was really, really good.

You can also dilute future with the Mr Leveling Thinner. I found putting clear colors directly into future gave me results that were less than stellar. Sometimes the paint would skin over on top of the future, or it'd require vigorous stirring to make sure it was all dissolved. If I thinned the paint first with leveling thinner, then added future, it was perfectly dissolved and distributed. Try it in a little plastic measuring cup first to see what I mean. I think it's one of those things that once you get it to work, you won't go back to other methods.

Also, Tamiya gloss acrylics are a little finicky when it comes to thinners. Thinning them with anything other than their own brand of acrylic thinner, and the gloss is turned to a matte finish.

BTW, many thanks on the tips in diluting Future. Can I use anything else besides Mr. Leveling Thinner? Gunze stuff isn't as easy to find as Tamiya over here.

[mickyg]

I should have specified that as far as I know, Mr Leveling Thinner is a diluted lacquer thinner, with some retarding agents in it. So that being the case, I would expect you to be able to use Tamiya Lacquer thinner without any issues. I hear Tamiya Lacquer thinner is also more diluted than the stuff you'd get at a hardware store.

I hear a lot of guys use Windex to thin Future as well, though it depends on what it is that requires future to be thinned in the first place. It's usually plenty thin as is.

[GU-11]

I should have specified that as far as I know, Mr Leveling Thinner is a diluted lacquer thinner, with some retarding agents in it. So that being the case, I would expect you to be able to use Tamiya Lacquer thinner without any issues. I hear Tamiya Lacquer thinner is also more diluted than the stuff you'd get at a hardware store.

I hear a lot of guys use Windex to thin Future as well, though it depends on what it is that requires future to be thinned in the first place. It's usually plenty thin as is.

Thanks for the pointers, mickyg!

The only uses I have for Future is as a protective gloss coat, and for tinting clear plastic. For the former, I won't need to dilute it, but I'll need to do so for tinting, since, as you said, it helps dissolve the clear color.

BTW, I'm still getting orange peel, even when mist coating! I'm not even sure how that's possible. It's not the usual matte finish, but the mottled texture of orange peel. At 1:1 paint to thinner ratio, it shouldn't be thick enough to orange peel a mist coat.

I'm thinking maybe blow-drying the surface between coats might not work for gloss paints, since you're supposed to give the paint time to level out for a smooth finish.

Next time, I'll just give the paint 2-5 minutes between coats and see if that makes a difference.

UPDATE: I think I should thin the paint even further. Although, I'm not sure if going past 1:1 would make the paint too thin.

I'm starting to think maybe I've been expecting unrealistically glossy results. I googled some pics of test spoons sprayed with Tamiya gloss acrylic, and they also have a slight texture on the surface.

The pic isn't mine, but this is close to the best result I've gotten, after leaving it to dry overnight. is this actually normal?

Edited October 10, 2014 by GU-11

[modelglue]

Mmmm, that looks fairly acceptable to me. I think for a perfectly glossy surface you might have to bake the paint like some auto manufacturers do. Automotive polishes are used by modellers too, who often spray up to ten thin coats with a 1200 grit sanding between each.

This is if you are looking for a factory gloss that is something you would see on a show car. It can be done, but it takes practice, skill, patience and experience.

The spoon you have posted would fall under "glossy" for me personally. I have been happy with model car finishes which were less perfect than that!

[GU-11]

That's certainly a relief! I was starting to think maybe I should just quit model building and take up knitting.

Seems like that super-gloss finish I've been looking for requires a lot more work than I thought.

I'm going to try brushing a coat of Future on the test spoon and see if it gives a glossier finish. That's about as far as I'm willing to go for a glossy paint job, since I haven't bought any polishing compounds right now.

[chyll2]

Thanks for the pointers, mickyg!

The only uses I have for Future is as a protective gloss coat, and for tinting clear plastic. For the former, I won't need to dilute it, but I'll need to do so for tinting, since, as you said, it helps dissolve the clear color.

BTW, I'm still getting orange peel, even when mist coating! I'm not even sure how that's possible. It's not the usual matte finish, but the mottled texture of orange peel. At 1:1 paint to thinner ratio, it shouldn't be thick enough to orange peel a mist coat.

I'm thinking maybe blow-drying the surface between coats might not work for gloss paints, since you're supposed to give the paint time to level out for a smooth finish.

Next time, I'll just give the paint 2-5 minutes between coats and see if that makes a difference.

UPDATE: I think I should thin the paint even further. Although, I'm not sure if going past 1:1 would make the paint too thin.

I'm starting to think maybe I've been expecting unrealistically glossy results. I googled some pics of test spoons sprayed with Tamiya gloss acrylic, and they also have a slight texture on the surface.

The pic isn't mine, but this is close to the best result I've gotten, after leaving it to dry overnight. is this actually normal?

iirc, this spoon where this article or forum post belongs to did more buffing later on and was able to remove the orange peel. So by that standard, if your paint is closer to this, then I would say you are doing a good work already.

Anyway, this is the reason why I stay away from Car or Sports bike model or anything that involves glossy finish

planes and robot, just use satin/matte and it automatically corrects or hide imperfections

Edited October 10, 2014 by chyll2

[SchizophrenicMC]

Paints don't come out super glossy on their own. In automotive, the paint finish hardly matters, because it's the clear coat that will ultimately determine the overall finish, and more than that, the finish work done to the clear coat. Wet-sanding and buffing are a necessity for a glossy finish. You'll find it's what car modelers do, as well as real auto painters.

Though, the extra work is a big reason I do mostly gunpla and aircraft. I won't be building that Tamiya Grand Cherokee for a long time yet.

As far as brushes go, my airbrush is a Master G23 series brush with either a .2mm or .3mm nozzle. The problem with these brushes is they're made of very low quality materials and to very loose tolerances. Which is why even this double-action gravity-feed brush can be purchased for something like $25 on TCP Global. It was having problems long before I started resorting to full disassembly for cleaning. And that's always included pulling the seals before soaking the main body in alcohol. Not to mention the brush is advertised as having seals that resist swelling or drying out under thinners like alcohol anyway.

I'm pretty sure most of my problems are related to the exceedingly low quality of my Chinese airbrush, and I'd like to move up to an Iwata, if only because the parts are more widely available. (This Master has a nice tendency to bend the needle tip through regular use, and the only place to get new needles is TCP Global. The wait time has killed more than one project)

[EXO]

Yeah, the paint on that spoon is really good.

Also I didn't mean that your paint needed more thinner... I was suggesting a thinner layer of paint because orange peeling is usually from a thick drying coat getting hit by new paint. You shouldn't worry about texture, unless it's obviously ruined, because it's all going to be covered and evened out by clear coats anyway.

For Future, I don't follow the same technique. Usually I just mist the surface really quick and then I hit it with a wet layer. Future Floor Wax likes to be applied on thick. that's why dipping it is probably the best way to apply it if weren't masking or if the piece isn't that big. Also I don't use it with any thinner either. But when I need color I just use Tamiya transparent colors....

[GU-11]

iirc, this spoon where this article or forum post belongs to did more buffing later on and was able to remove the orange peel. So by that standard, if your paint is closer to this, then I would say you are doing a good work already.

Anyway, this is the reason why I stay away from Car or Sports bike model or anything that involves glossy finish

planes and robot, just use satin/matte and it automatically corrects or hide imperfections

Good to know I'm on the right track. I kept thinking that even that tiny bit of texture was orange peel, and that I was still doing something wrong.

I also try to stay away from sports cars and vehicles with showroom quality paint jobs. Thought I was doing the smart thing by sticking to mechs only. And then I had to foolishly go and buy an Armored Core Aaliyah Krasnaya kit, and another two DMK kits...all of which have to be painted in warm, glossy colors!

Paints don't come out super glossy on their own. In automotive, the paint finish hardly matters, because it's the clear coat that will ultimately determine the overall finish, and more than that, the finish work done to the clear coat. Wet-sanding and buffing are a necessity for a glossy finish. You'll find it's what car modelers do, as well as real auto painters.

Though, the extra work is a big reason I do mostly gunpla and aircraft. I won't be building that Tamiya Grand Cherokee for a long time yet.

As far as brushes go, my airbrush is a Master G23 series brush with either a .2mm or .3mm nozzle. The problem with these brushes is they're made of very low quality materials and to very loose tolerances. Which is why even this double-action gravity-feed brush can be purchased for something like $25 on TCP Global. It was having problems long before I started resorting to full disassembly for cleaning. And that's always included pulling the seals before soaking the main body in alcohol. Not to mention the brush is advertised as having seals that resist swelling or drying out under thinners like alcohol anyway.

I'm pretty sure most of my problems are related to the exceedingly low quality of my Chinese airbrush, and I'd like to move up to an Iwata, if only because the parts are more widely available. (This Master has a nice tendency to bend the needle tip through regular use, and the only place to get new needles is TCP Global. The wait time has killed more than one project)

Haha, I'm starting to feel like a teenager who expected his girl who expected to wake up with perfect hair and makeup in the morning! I probably won't go as far as sanding and polishing between each coat, but I will hand-brush a coat of Future and see if it's self-leveling properties might give the surface a smoother texture.

Regarding airbrushes, I recommend going for the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS. I bought one myself after reading and watching a lot of good reviews and comments on youtube and other modeling forums. The drop-in nozzle was what really sold me on it. Minimizes wear and tear from contact between nozzle and needle, and has no threads to wear out--makes for very convenient cleaning and maintenance, too. Although I haven't started using it yet, it gives some beautiful results when I tested it with food coloring on a piece of paper.

Yeah, the paint on that spoon is really good.

Also I didn't mean that your paint needed more thinner... I was suggesting a thinner layer of paint because orange peeling is usually from a thick drying coat getting hit by new paint. You shouldn't worry about texture, unless it's obviously ruined, because it's all going to be covered and evened out by clear coats anyway.

For Future, I don't follow the same technique. Usually I just mist the surface really quick and then I hit it with a wet layer. Future Floor Wax likes to be applied on thick. that's why dipping it is probably the best way to apply it if weren't masking or if the piece isn't that big. Also I don't use it with any thinner either. But when I need color I just use Tamiya transparent colors....

It's at times like these that I feel like an absolute noob...aw, who am I kidding? I am a noob!

So, a thinner layer of paint? Got it. The mist and medium coats look mottled, but I guess the final wet coat takes care of that.

Can I apply Future with a paint brush? I heard that Future is very hard to airbrush without spidering because it's so thin.

[CoreyD]

I apply future with a paintbrush all the time. It tends to level itself out.

[SchizophrenicMC]

The brush I have currently is very similar in design to the Eclipse HP-CS, but the materials and tolerances are of much lower quality. The seals in the back of the cup have worn out, so I'm getting paint into the trigger housing, more reliably than I'm getting paint out of the nozzle. The differences in design also involve the nozzle threading directly into the main body, rather than into an adapter that is held to the body via a retainer. Putting all that torque on that tiny seal several times due to multiple disassemblies is disastrous. The parts are a lot cheaper than the Iwata, but those main seals aren't available, and the needle and nozzle are only available through TCPGlobal, which does not have fast shipping. (I actually forgot I'd spent $170 buying a compressor and brush from them, by the time the items arrived)

Now, my compressor is top-notch. I love this thing. It's quiet, it puts out more air than I can demand, it has no qualms with running for long periods of time. My only complaint is that it tends to shake its way toward me, but then any compressor is going to do that if it's not secured and it's on a slick surface.

I would quite like to get into an Iwata Eclipse series brush though. That'd be good.

[GU-11]

I apply future with a paintbrush all the time. It tends to level itself out.

That'll certainly save me the trouble of cleaning up the airbrush. I've heard some say that it's a little tricky cleaning Future from an AB, even with Windex. That said, I suspect they've been using the kind that doesn't have ammonia. It's easy to buy the wrong one unless both versions ar available on the same shelf.

The brush I have currently is very similar in design to the Eclipse HP-CS, but the materials and tolerances are of much lower quality. The seals in the back of the cup have worn out, so I'm getting paint into the trigger housing, more reliably than I'm getting paint out of the nozzle. The differences in design also involve the nozzle threading directly into the main body, rather than into an adapter that is held to the body via a retainer. Putting all that torque on that tiny seal several times due to multiple disassemblies is disastrous. The parts are a lot cheaper than the Iwata, but those main seals aren't available, and the needle and nozzle are only available through TCPGlobal, which does not have fast shipping. (I actually forgot I'd spent $170 buying a compressor and brush from them, by the time the items arrived)

Now, my compressor is top-notch. I love this thing. It's quiet, it puts out more air than I can demand, it has no qualms with running for long periods of time. My only complaint is that it tends to shake its way toward me, but then any compressor is going to do that if it's not secured and it's on a slick surface.

I would quite like to get into an Iwata Eclipse series brush though. That'd be good.

The nozzle threads directly into the main body? I don't think I've ever seen such a design before.

The problem with buying compressors online is the different wattage between countries. As much as I wanted to just buy a compressor from HLJ, I had to spend well over a year making do with a portable, battery-operated compressor (you can't imagine how fun it is to be running low on power during the middle of a paint session ). Thankfully, I stumbled onto an art shop at the local mall and bought a compressor with an air tank. The airbrushes there sucked, so I saved up a little and got a couple of decent ones at HLJ.

BTW, just out of curiosity, at Harder and Steenbeck airbrushes that much better than other brands? I know they're high-end and well engineered, but do they really make than much of a difference performance-wise to modelers?

One thing I do know is that they do come with everything but the kitchen sink. A review once mentioned that the airbrush the company sent him for reviewing included a small packet of Life-savers. Sure, nobody turns down candy, but...why?

Edited October 11, 2014 by GU-11

[SchizophrenicMC]

What country do you live in, if you don't mind my asking? Usually wattage isn't so much a concern, as voltage is. A device will only draw as many watts and amps as it needs, but voltage can cause problems.

I do strongly recommend tanked compressors, to be sure. Mine has a 1/3 gallon tank, which really helps when I'm painting, because it'll put down a steady 7-10psi all day and the compressor will never get too hot. Of course, the tank doesn't do too much if I set the regulator to like 60psi for blowing off dust or drying wet parts from the cleaning bowl, both of which it also excels at.

As far as Harder Steenbeck, I don't know too much about them, except they're a small German company that may or may not still handcraft their brushes. Of course, small German manufacturing firms are known for their incredible quality, engineering, and craftsmanship, but I have too much experience with Volkswagens and BMWs to say German Engineering is amazing, full stop.

It's a European thing I've noticed. Almost every package I've received from various European countries has had some piece of candy in it. I don't know if these are isolated anomalies, or some shipping culture thing in the region, but I've had German, Belgian, Czech, Danish, and Swedish candies in packages from their respective nations. I know Harder Steenbeck is a small firm- maybe that's just something they do there?

[EXO]

When applying Future with a brush or airbrush, apply as fast as you can and leave it alone. If you keep messing with it, it'll start to get tacky and that's when it starts to become a mess. That's one reason it starts to spiderweb. Apply what you have in the airbrush and then refill or clean it out. Water should do in between sessions unless your done, then clean it with some acetone or windex.

I bought this cheap airbrush from Eastwood

http://www.eastwood.com/gravity-feed-trigger-style-airbrush-gun.html

I use it for Future application and wide area spray, so far so good.

[Nekko Basara]

BTW, just out of curiosity, at Harder and Steenbeck airbrushes that much better than other brands? I know they're high-end and well engineered, but do they really make than much of a difference performance-wise to modelers?

I have a Harder & Steenbeck Infinity,without the quick-set endpiece, but with the airflow regulator for the handle and a couple of different needles/nozzles. I don't have much to compare it to, aside from an ancient Testors Aztek and a generic Iwata copy of the $25 variety (not a Master G23, but roughly equivalent). I gave up on the Aztek ages ago, but use the faux-Iwata for wide coverage and nasty substances, reserving the H&S for fine work. It has an incredibly smooth and light action by comparison, does super-fine lines with the right mix and medium (ink will go much finer than paint, for example), and is very easy to clean. The thing just screams "quality" from the minute you pick it up. The thing is, my skills don't. I am very much a novice with an airbrush, and always feel like I over-bought with the H&S. I know it can do amazing work, and sometimes I can manage to impress myself, but generally it's clear that the limiting factor is my skill.

I guess I'd say that if you really know how to use an AB, or are confident you'll put the time and effort into building that skill, then a H&S seems like a worthwhile investment. There isn't exactly a downside, except for the price and the relative difficulty of tracking down parts compared to more common brands. But if you are still fumbling around like me (for years!), I don't think you'll find it making a huge difference versus some of the cheaper alternatives.

[GU-11]

What country do you live in, if you don't mind my asking? Usually wattage isn't so much a concern, as voltage is. A device will only draw as many watts and amps as it needs, but voltage can cause problems.

I do strongly recommend tanked compressors, to be sure. Mine has a 1/3 gallon tank, which really helps when I'm painting, because it'll put down a steady 7-10psi all day and the compressor will never get too hot. Of course, the tank doesn't do too much if I set the regulator to like 60psi for blowing off dust or drying wet parts from the cleaning bowl, both of which it also excels at.

As far as Harder Steenbeck, I don't know too much about them, except they're a small German company that may or may not still handcraft their brushes. Of course, small German manufacturing firms are known for their incredible quality, engineering, and craftsmanship, but I have too much experience with Volkswagens and BMWs to say German Engineering is amazing, full stop.

It's a European thing I've noticed. Almost every package I've received from various European countries has had some piece of candy in it. I don't know if these are isolated anomalies, or some shipping culture thing in the region, but I've had German, Belgian, Czech, Danish, and Swedish candies in packages from their respective nations. I know Harder Steenbeck is a small firm- maybe that's just something they do there?

I live in Malaysia, which uses 220v-240v just like the UK (former colony and all that). Yeah, sorry, I mean voltage, not wattage. The thing that really pisses me off is that while Tamiya has a local outlet here, they don't sell their spray booths or compressors here. Because they can't be bothered to modify them for foreign voltages.

Tank compressors are really easy on the ears, too. They're not that loud to begin with, and if you set the psi to 15 or less, you get a peaceful and quiet spray session for at least 10 minutes before the compressor kicks in again to top up the tank. I'm always worried that my airbrushes can't take 60 psi, so I use the blow option of my Karcher vacuum cleaner for blowing dust out.

Including candy in product packages is a European thing? That's a tradition I could get used to.

When applying Future with a brush or airbrush, apply as fast as you can and leave it alone. If you keep messing with it, it'll start to get tacky and that's when it starts to become a mess. That's one reason it starts to spiderweb. Apply what you have in the airbrush and then refill or clean it out. Water should do in between sessions unless your done, then clean it with some acetone or windex.

I bought this cheap airbrush from Eastwood

http://www.eastwood.com/gravity-feed-trigger-style-airbrush-gun.html

I use it for Future application and wide area spray, so far so good.

Many thanks for the pointers!

Should I apply medium to heavy coats or light coats if I apply by brush--just worried about runs.

Also, is it safe to flush the AB with acetone? It won't harm the metal, but I'm worried about the packing o-ring,

That looks like a clone of Tamiya's trigger-type airbrush, except it's a side-feed. 34 USD is a really good price for it, except the shipping to Malaysia will easily double that price. I think the old budget basic trigger airbrush that came with my Tamiya portable compressor will do. It's by far the easiest to clean, among all 3 of my airbrushes, which makes it perfect for spraying hard-to-clean stuff like primer, decanted lacquer paint and Future. You can actually strip it down to its brass "central block" (basically the AB's paint chamber) and soak it in the strongest solvents. The nozzle is easily three times the size of average 0.3mm nozzles, making it a cinch to clean and handle.

I have a Harder & Steenbeck Infinity,without the quick-set endpiece, but with the airflow regulator for the handle and a couple of different needles/nozzles. I don't have much to compare it to, aside from an ancient Testors Aztek and a generic Iwata copy of the $25 variety (not a Master G23, but roughly equivalent). I gave up on the Aztek ages ago, but use the faux-Iwata for wide coverage and nasty substances, reserving the H&S for fine work. It has an incredibly smooth and light action by comparison, does super-fine lines with the right mix and medium (ink will go much finer than paint, for example), and is very easy to clean. The thing just screams "quality" from the minute you pick it up. The thing is, my skills don't. I am very much a novice with an airbrush, and always feel like I over-bought with the H&S. I know it can do amazing work, and sometimes I can manage to impress myself, but generally it's clear that the limiting factor is my skill.

I guess I'd say that if you really know how to use an AB, or are confident you'll put the time and effort into building that skill, then a H&S seems like a worthwhile investment. There isn't exactly a downside, except for the price and the relative difficulty of tracking down parts compared to more common brands. But if you are still fumbling around like me (for years!), I don't think you'll find it making a huge difference versus some of the cheaper alternatives.

I heard that Aztek's aren't even designed to be disassembled and cleaned. And if you take them apart, you void the warranty.

Before I bought my HP-CS and HG III, I once considered getting an H&S Ultra, as it's advertised as the brand's most affordable airbrush, but without any compromises to quality. I ultimately decided against it after realizing how hard it would be to get replacement parts. Not that quality airbrushes from good brands will need replacement parts very often if you take care of them, but if an when you do, it's going to be a nightmare trying find them.

In fact, the only reason I decided to order my AB's from HLJ was because they agreed to get replacement parts for me if I needed them.

[SchizophrenicMC]

You do know there are several options on the market for step-down converters that plug into UK-style sockets and output US-style sockets at 110/120v right? They're not all that expensive, and they'll let you run any US-style device on your home power without modification. Which means Japanese market items will work because their power distribution is based on the US standards. (Thank you, MacArthur. For once)

As for Aztek, I tend to avoid American products in general. It's hard to find anything designed well, and harder to find anything built well, from American product lines. I really should have kept my Pathfinder instead of that Jeep, but here I am 4 Jeeps later and looking for another Nissan.

Anyway, ModelMaster stuff is okay. I like their paints and their thinners aren't bad. All way overpriced though. Tamiya paints are far cheaper per mL and I'm used to their consistency. They also thin well with pretty much anything you can thin acrylic paints with, which works great with this Aztek thinner that works out to be slightly cheaper than Tamiya thinner. Of course, for enamels, nothing I can get locally beats ModelMaster. I hear Mr.Color lacquer and enamel paints rock, but nobody sells them in Dallas, and they're restricted from shipping to the US. ModelMaster will do. With that said, I'd never touch an Aztek. Not since the Aztek my dad handed down to me. God what an awful airbrush. Single-action siphon feed plastic one-piece design from the late 1980s. Probably worth $35 on store shelves today; more expensive than this Master G23, funny as that is.

The overarching point here is, I am not a huge fan of Testor's and its subsidiaries.

[GU-11]

Yeah, I know there are step-down adapters, and I even found one both online and locally. The thing is, it wasn't worth the investment. The portable compressor wasn't that great to begin with (no moisture traps, no pressure adjustment, and can't be run consistently for more than 30 minutes), and not only do I have to buy the step-down adapter, I'd also have to get the SWA-3 AC adapter in order to plug the compressor into the step-down adapter.

On top of that, the one I found at Rakuten required that I buy up to 5000 yen (or was it more?) worth of products before they'll ship anything to me. The one I found locally was an adjustable converter that lowers the voltage to 110v. I almost bought that one, until someone from another hobby forum told me even a 10v difference might fry the compressor. But after reading what you said and checking online, the guy was either misinformed or pulling my leg.

Although I've already got a new compressor and spray booth running on local voltage, it's still good to know. I can still buy the converter and make use of the portable compressor once in a while outdoors in the patio when spraying heavy coats of primer or lacquer paint (cleaning the spray booth after a heavy paint session isn't exactly fun).

As for the Aztek, that thing has a very date design to it. It's like something out of the 70's. Just as well, Testors is almost unheard of over here.

Tamiya paints are all I've been using due to easier availability, and as far as matte and silver paints go, they're pretty good.

BTW, are Tamiya's plastic pipettes solvent proof? I've been looking for glass pipettes to transfer lacquer thinner, but so far I only have the one I snagged from an empty bottle of skin moisturizing...lotion...that I found at my sister's place during a visit.

[SchizophrenicMC]

The 10v won't matter. US grids run at 110-120v with variances all over the place. I've probed sockets and gotten 110v and 120v, even within the same house.

There are an absolute ton of American hobby items that haven't evolved since the 1970s. Revell's entire lineup, for example. It is not something this country does well.

They should be, I haven't had any issues with any brand's pipettes. But you can drop the act about the lotion. No need to be ashamed of your lotion or your kleenex. Everyone should stay moisturized and keep their passages free and clear.

[GU-11]

Definitely getting the converter one of these days, then.

Revell's packaging looks like it hasn't changed with the founding of the company. That said, it kind of works since they mostly sell vintage kits and WWII vehicles. Are the kits any good, though? I'm planning to get one of their TIE fighters during HLJ's black Friday sale this year. On second thought, maybe I should go for the new ones Bandai is releasing soon.

I'm metrosexual and proud of it! ...sort of. Past 30, you'll have to slather all sorts of stuff on you to keep from drying up like a dead tree. That said, i draw the line at lip balm. That's just one step away from eyeliner and plucking your eyebrows.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Go for the Bandai one. Revell's Star Wars kits are of remarkably low quality. I believe they're still making the TIE fighter kit they first sold in 1978. They're not fond of redesigning and re-releasing new kits, like the Japanese. The Bandai kit looks to be far more detailed, and probably not much more expensive.

As far as Revell's scale models, they're not really made to the stated scale, they're made to so-called Box Scale, which is the closest scale to a given standard that will fit in the box. There are a good few 1:72 planes that are really 1:78 or 1:65 because they fit the box better, and that really throws off a display. It's even more noticeable with bigger scales, like 1:48 which I've seen turn out as 1:55. Again, it's a weird American thing. The way I see it, if you're going to sell scale models at a given standard scale, the kits should actually match that scale. Of course, a lot of older Japanese kits are stated as being standard scale, but they're actually metric scale. (1:72 kits can turn out to be 1:70 kits, 1:144 kits are sometimes 1:140, and 1:48 kits are often 1:50) But even that is prone to revision, as Japanese kits are often redesigned and re-released. Tamiya's 1:24 1984 300ZX kit was released originally in 1984 and has received no fewer than 4 revisions, including the option for left- and right-hand-drive interiors.

And it wasn't a metro joke, it was a masturbation joke.

[GU-11]

Holy... How's Revell still in business? Selling 36-year old designs is ridiculous. And they're not particularly cheap, either.

I never knew the scale system for model kits was "relative". And adjusting the scale just to fit a model into a box? Really? I'm glad I've never bought any Revell kits. The good thing about scifi model kits is that scale issues between different designs aren't as noticeable as "real world" vehicles.

Ah, that explains the Kleenex...

[SchizophrenicMC]

Revell and Testor's have a cult following, even though I think their products are sub-par.

Edited October 13, 2014 by SchizophrenicMC

[Nekko Basara]

It's funny to me that Revell should spawn a discussion about generalizations, because no single generalization fits their kit line. To my knowledge, it comprises at least three very different types of kit:

1) Some of their kits are very old molds, dating as far back as the seventies. They may have poor detail and proportions, raised panel lines, excessive mold flash, etc. - all the issues you'd expect from kits of that age. I think this also includes the "off-scale" kits that are supposed to be 1/76, but don't always measure correctly even to that.

2) Some Revell kits are reboxings of other manufacturers' molds, typically Italeri or eastern European companies like Zvezda. These can also be somewhat dated and crude by current standards, but not all are; some of the recent molds shared with Italeri are pretty good, for example. And sometimes even if the kit is sub-par, it's of an unusual subject with few or any alternatives (like their 1/72 FW-189).

3) The last category is kits from Revell AG (Revell of Germany) made from about 2000 onward. These kits are almost all fantastic - competitive with the likes of modern Hasegawa, Tamiya, and Dragon kits. The ones I have personal experience with are their 1/72 planes and armor, and their 1/144 planes. They don't incorporate snazzy multimedia options, but they tend to be pretty cheap (although prices have gone up a lot in the past few years).

The trouble with Revell is that they release all of these kits together in the same box style, and it's hard to tell what you are getting without some online research. I've been "duped" more than once and ended up with a terrible dog of a kit because I didn't check. But, man, some of their modern kits are nice.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Eh, I'd just rather not try my luck. I have yet to end up with a Revell kit I was impressed by. Even with the Revell AG line, the majority of their kits seems to be of rather low quality, and they're not much cheaper than the competition.

I still think the Bandai TIE Fighter will be better than the Revell kit, which doesn't appear to be any different today, than its 1978 release.

[modelglue]

...That's just one step away from eyeliner and plucking your eyebrows.

The tweezers are for my models, I swear. But honestly, if it comes down to my wife not wanting to look at me, they'll get used on my face.

I usually go out of my way to get the newer Revell AG kits, and the Hasegawa items repacked as Revell kits. I also like the MPM stuff Revell has sold, a wayyy cheaper alternative to buying the Czech brands. I know what yo mean about being duped though, with the recent Airfix "new" stuff I accidentally bought a WW2 russian fighter plane with...raised panel lines. The horror. Even after the store owner swore it was a new mold.

Ultimately it comes down to personal taste regarding molding style and detail levels. I tend to go for consistency, which kits original to Tamiya, Hasegawa, Fine Molds, Fujimi, Dragon, and some Revell do well. I don't mind the odd Trumpeter rivet fest, as I can fill these in. But re-releasing an old kit with scale inconsistency and tennis ball rivets is a slap in the face to the modelling community. I feel strongly about this, but i'll leave lotion out of it.

I saw the new Bandai star wars stuff on HLJ, the X-wing and tie were 1900ish Yen each. Not bad. I think Fine Molds still have some decent 1/72 versions too, but I don't own any so can't say for certain.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Fine Molds' release of both is excellent, though sometimes hard to find, and a tad expensive. I really want a Fine Molds Millennium Falcon- in both released scales.

I do have to say, I enjoy Tamiya's consistency. I'll buy a Tamiya 1/24 car kit before I buy any other brand. The quality and detail are superb, and they build very well. Most of their newer kits even have separate engines from the rest of the car, which is fantastic for display, especially if you're like me and don't really care for a basic curbside kit. Fujimi is also pretty good, and Hasegawa's reputation precedes them.

Actually, I'm very eager to see Bandai's Star Wars offerings for myself. With Bandai's technology and design ethic, they could fit into a lot of smart niches for model-builders, from people who just want a detailed toy, to novice modelers, to people just starting out with intermediate techniques that need lots of practice to get the best results out of more advanced kits. Plus, Bandai's low-waste techniques drive the cost per kit way down, which does make a hobbyist feel less bad about potentially damaging the kit during the process, or at the very least, not getting it perfect.

There are a number of kits I own that I haven't built yet, because I really want to get them perfect. And there are some kits I own that I've had a lot of fun building, even after screwing something up, because they take it in stride. I do think Bandai does a good job of offering kits that give that feeling and that are conducive to practicing new techniques.