Beginner's Model Building Construction BASICS

[vsim]

Yeah, SchizophrenicMC is correct, I just use Dielectric grease because I have it, but any silicone grease should work.

[GU-11]

Silicone grease it is, then.

One more question for the road. Kind of a stupid one, though.

I built my own cleaning pot from a coffee bottle a while ago, and it works quite well when I flush methylated spirits from my AB into it. The problem is, every time I clean out the bottle, I notice how wet the plastic lid is from the mist. Now that's fine since methylated spirits won't eat plastic, but I'm worried that if I flush lacquer thinner into the jar, it'll eat into the lid.

While the bottle itself is glass, the lid is made from a sort of malleable plastic.

Or, is the mist too fine to damage the plastic? But just in case, is there anything I could do to keep the mist from getting to the lid, like maybe fill the bottle with kitchen towels or newspaper?

I know it's just a recycled coffee bottle and I should just get a proper one online, but I'd rather not spend any more money than I have to this close to Christmas. I've already pre-ordered more things than I should have, and there's also tons of other stuff to spend on this time of year.

Edited October 18, 2014 by GU-11

[SchizophrenicMC]

Depends on the plastic. Different plastics react differently to different solvents. Polyethylenes, for example, will hardly react to anything. Polystyrene is notable for being one of a very few substances that doesn't react with hydrofluoric acid, even though it reacts readily with a number of other chemicals (like lacquer solvents). ABS doesn't react very much with chemicals, but is highly prone to UV oxidation.

Without knowing what kind of plastic you have there, I can't give you too much advice. What I will say is, I just use an old rag for catching my cleaning fluids. No fancy jars or anything. Hell, sometimes I'll just spray it into my paint booth and let the fan do its thing. I'm not terribly concerned with such issues.

[GU-11]

That sounds like a good idea! Maybe I'll use a glass bowl or something, fill it with a rag, and then place it in front of my spray booth. The rag catches the thinner, while the spray booth sucks in the fumes. I'll just let the tub sit there for 10 minutes or so before taking it outside for cleaning.

Many thanks, SchizophrenicMC!

[mickyg]

I feel the need to point out that you might try testing the plastic first. Put a drop of whatever solvent you'll be using on the plastic somewhere inconspicuous. If it softens, discolors, or otherwise alters the plastic, well there's your answer.

Rags soaked in solvent is a fire hazard and a half! Ever heard of spontaneous combustion? Any time that term has come up in the sense of a garage mishap, it's almost always got something to do with an old rag and some form of solvent.

Be careful out there...

But have fun, too.

Edited October 19, 2014 by mickyg

[SchizophrenicMC]

I suppose it's worth mentioning that I clean my airbrush with isopropyl alcohol, since I use acrylics exclusively. It wicks in and evaporates faster than it can build up in a rag or napkin during cleaning and isn't particularly prone to catching fire unless it's really wet.

With that said, I'm not terribly concerned with solvent fires from my rags. The solvents I use in daily life are all rather volatile and evaporate in short enough order that they're more a fire risk during use or storage, than when being absorbed into a rag. Now, my shop rags in the garage, those are a different story.

[GU-11]

I feel the need to point out that you might try testing the plastic first. Put a drop of whatever solvent you'll be using on the plastic somewhere inconspicuous. If it softens, discolors, or otherwise alters the plastic, well there's your answer.

Rags soaked in solvent is a fire hazard and a half! Ever heard of spontaneous combustion? Any time that term has come up in the sense of a garage mishap, it's almost always got something to do with an old rag and some form of solvent.

Be careful out there...

But have fun, too.

That's a good point.

Maybe I should rethink my idea after all, since this is lacquer thinner we're talking about.

I don't really see a part of the lid where a hole wouldn't compromise its ability to seal in the thinner mist. I think I'll test out the side of the lid with a drop of lacquer thinner like you advised, and see how things go. Hopefully, it'll hold up; otherwise, I'll have to pony up the cash for a proper cleaning pot.

I suppose it's worth mentioning that I clean my airbrush with isopropyl alcohol, since I use acrylics exclusively. It wicks in and evaporates faster than it can build up in a rag or napkin during cleaning and isn't particularly prone to catching fire unless it's really wet.

With that said, I'm not terribly concerned with solvent fires from my rags. The solvents I use in daily life are all rather volatile and evaporate in short enough order that they're more a fire risk during use or storage, than when being absorbed into a rag. Now, my shop rags in the garage, those are a different story.

I should probably stick to acrylics for the time being, in this case.

Or, do some number crunching again and see if I can squeeze in that cleaning pot.

[CoreyD]

Here's another question for you all --

I'm currently painting a camo pattern on an IFV using Krylon "Camo" paint colors. It works well enough for my 1:18 scale stuff and I've done enough chalk washes to make the finish look like it's been coated in diesel grime.

So far, so good.

I was planning on adding some dry brushing effects using my bottled testors acrylic paints. If I use a hardware store spray can of flat clearcoat, is it going to dissolve all of the acrylic paint I've added?

Thanks!

[SchizophrenicMC]

My concern is in the violent nature of the high-pressure aerosol in a spray can. Regular spray cans use very high pressure to shoot high-viscosity paint a fairly large distance, to generate a fairly large fan or cone spray. While the solvent may affect the acrylic paint, even in a model spray can, the difference is model spray cans use lower pressures, narrower nozzles, and lower-viscosity paints.

I'd recommend a model spray like Tamiya Spray if I was going to use aerosol paint or clear on a model kit.

I've actually recently been using various rattle cans in the prep and trim work on my car. They're right on the inside edge of what I'd deem acceptable for use on a car with proper masking and surface prep. Controlling the paint flow is exceedingly difficult, and any effects you create on a model kit are scaled up however much the kit's scale is. A run in your paint on a 1/100 kit is 100 times bigger at scale. I really don't recommend rattle cans for model kits for this reason.

[GU-11]

I suggest decanting the clear spray into a small jar, let it off-gas, and then spraying it through an airbrush. Mist coating clear varnish onto the surface will at least minimize the risks of the lacquer eating into the acrylic paint. In theory, anyway.

_________________________________________________________

BTW, I just bought a can of QP 203 silicone spray to lubricate my AB's trigger mechanism and Teflon seal. On paper, it sounds perfect for the job:

» Leaves a dry lubricating film
» Helps prevent rubber cracking & drying
» Displaces moisture
» Excellent mould release lubricant
» Point and spray convenience
» Lubricates; Waterproofs
» Rustproofs

Would this work?

Edited October 30, 2014 by GU-11

[GU-11]

I recently did some tests on some painted spoons, trying to polish away the orange peel using toothpaste and a wet rag. Works surprisingly well. Sadly, after adding a clear coat of FFP, it's still somewhat mottled when you see reflections from a lightbulb on it up close. I'd say it's just about the same quality of an actual car's paint job. Mirror-like sheen from a medium distance, but slightly mottled when viewed really closely. I guess I'd still need to wet-sand with 1000 grit sandpaper before using toothpaste and finally clear coat using FFP.

Should be good enough for TF's or mecha with glossy paint jobs. Still, I wonder if there's a way to make it even glossier.

So my question is, can you actually polish FFP with toothpaste? And if so, how long do you have to wait before doing so?

[chyll2]

afaik, you can polish it by letting the clearcoat cure for a week (or maybe more?)

Edited November 20, 2014 by chyll2

[modelglue]

Yes, I regularly soak clear parts in future for 24hrs to let the coating penetrate any microscopic nooks present, then remove the part to rest on a paper towel and wick away any residual pooling future. I usually let it sit under some large bowl or container to keep dust off for ten minutes, then transfer to a plastic lid and upside down tupperware or margarine container to cure for a week. It will be dry to the touch after a few hours but you risk blemishing the surface if you get all touchy on it before it cures up.

Future bath:

Parts curing:

I happened to have these in progress so therefore we get the benefit of photos , this should work the same for TF parts that are finished. But test it out before you commit Optimus's torso to a future bath.

[GU-11]

Thanks for the explanations, guys!

@modelglue: can you reuse any of the FFP after dipping plastic parts in it? This stuff is like liquid gold.

BTW, the overturned container idea is genius. The lid's wider area makes it less likely for parts to bump into each other, and you can simply lift the container up to check on the parts.

[modelglue]

@modelglue: can you reuse any of the FFP after dipping plastic parts in it? This stuff is like liquid gold.

BTW, the overturned container idea is genius. The lid's wider area makes it less likely for parts to bump into each other, and you can simply lift the container up to check on the parts.

Yes, I keep it in that container with the lid on it, and just toss parts off the sprue right into it. Take them out with tweezers and shake off the excess FFP, set them to wick/dry on a paper towel like I mentioned earlier. I would do a test piece though, and note any discolouration of the FFP, as it can reabsorb itself and any paint you have coating an object dipped in FFP is subject to re-emulsification given a long enough bath (don't forget it is in there).

I wouldn't take credit for the idea of the lid, it was most likely gleaned from some forgotten author or tip submitter in Finescale Modeller magazine, which I subscribed to on and off for a few years in decades past.

[GU-11]

Yes, I keep it in that container with the lid on it, and just toss parts off the sprue right into it. Take them out with tweezers and shake off the excess FFP, set them to wick/dry on a paper towel like I mentioned earlier. I would do a test piece though, and note any discolouration of the FFP, as it can reabsorb itself and any paint you have coating an object dipped in FFP is subject to re-emulsification given a long enough bath (don't forget it is in there).

I wouldn't take credit for the idea of the lid, it was most likely gleaned from some forgotten author or tip submitter in Finescale Modeller magazine, which I subscribed to on and off for a few years in decades past.

Yeah, I also noticed that the FFP tends to re-emulsify acrylic paint, even when I simply applied it using a q-tip on cured acrylic paint. With lacquers, it dries to a smooth finish in 3 days. With acrylics, it's still somewhat tacky after the same amount of time.

I guess it's a good idea to avoid dipping in FFP if the parts are painted using acrylics.

The credit is still yours, my friend, as I'm a big-time lurker at Finescale Modeler, and I never found the answer to all that until you told me.

[modelglue]

I guess it's a good idea to avoid dipping in FFP if the parts are painted using acrylics.

I would just test them first, you can always give them a quick bath in future and then remove them immediately. Cleaning the excess future off with a large paint brush of cotton bud will prevent a built up area which could interfere with transformation or overall uniformity of your finished work. You can also brush future on large parts, but it helps to have a lot of experience. I brushed copious amounts of future onto the revell/monogram shelby cobra car kit body shell, and it pooled something fierce in areas. I also neglected to have a "tent" for it to dry under so it attracted quite a lot of dust.

The good/bad thing about future is that it will dissolve itself, which means bathing that shelby in a tub of future let me start from scratch.

Another tip is to ALWAYS dip your canopies. Even if they are crystal clear they still benefit. Working on a 1/72 canopy for my P-61B, the canopy framing is present in abundance making masking a chore. Attaching it with white glue and presoaking the parts in future means that i can remove it and start again if I get bleed or residue which interferes with the transparent portions.

[vsim]

Hey, what all can you guys recommend for airbrush painting booths? I am going to need to airbrush things soon. Do you guys recommend any of these little fan systems they sell on Amazon, etc.? Or do you do something else? I would prefer something I can use inside since it is starting to get damned cold outside, even in the garage.

[derex3592]

I bought the Paasche medium size one that "folds up" for storage a few years back. I have it out on my garage workbench and never move it. It's ok, but the price was kinda steep for what it is. All things being equal, I wouldn't buy it again. I would get a larger more industrial unit or build my own.

[GU-11]

I would just test them first, you can always give them a quick bath in future and then remove them immediately. Cleaning the excess future off with a large paint brush of cotton bud will prevent a built up area which could interfere with transformation or overall uniformity of your finished work. You can also brush future on large parts, but it helps to have a lot of experience. I brushed copious amounts of future onto the revell/monogram shelby cobra car kit body shell, and it pooled something fierce in areas. I also neglected to have a "tent" for it to dry under so it attracted quite a lot of dust.

The good/bad thing about future is that it will dissolve itself, which means bathing that shelby in a tub of future let me start from scratch.

Another tip is to ALWAYS dip your canopies. Even if they are crystal clear they still benefit. Working on a 1/72 canopy for my P-61B, the canopy framing is present in abundance making masking a chore. Attaching it with white glue and presoaking the parts in future means that i can remove it and start again if I get bleed or residue which interferes with the transparent portions.

Sounds like dipping is a more reliable method after all. You're right; just dipping the parts and taking them out immediately seems to be the best of both worlds. I guess psychologically, it only seems like you're using less FFP when brushing it on, when in fact, it's actually the opposite.

Yeah, FFP's ability to dissolve itself is both a blessing and a curse, depending on the situation.

Thanks for the tip on canopies. While I don't usually build fighter jets (and I call myself a Macross fan ) the same general principals probably apply to TF alt mode windshields.

Hey, what all can you guys recommend for airbrush painting booths? I am going to need to airbrush things soon. Do you guys recommend any of these little fan systems they sell on Amazon, etc.? Or do you do something else? I would prefer something I can use inside since it is starting to get damned cold outside, even in the garage.

It really depends on what you're mostly using. For airbrushes, even the most basic spray booths should be good enough, since they shoot such a fine mist. IIRC, the lowest recommended LFM of vapor a spray booth needs to remove is about 50 or so. If the booth's specs are at least that, then it should be fine for airbrushing.

Rattle cans would require something with more suction, obviously--especially if you're using store-bought rattle cans. Which is why I'm experimenting with decanted spray paint for airbrushing, since my spray booth is a cheap Tamiya clone, the same one sold at TCP Global.

Edited November 25, 2014 by GU-11

[CoreyD]

Question -- say I wanted to get into the game of printing my own decals?

Are there reasonably priced printers that are good for the job?

What sort of decal paper works best?

[derex3592]

I have only dipped my toe into this a couple of times. It's tricky to say the least. I bought a pack of Testors decal paper $10, and a can of Testors decal bonded spray from Hobby Lobby. I make the text I want in Microsoft Word, and try SEVERAL test prints on normal paper first to assure the print goes into the right area of the paper as the decal sheets are only about 5x7. There's probably better bigger sheets made by other companies, I just haven't checked. After you do a successful test print, send the decal sheet through the printer. I use my Canon Inkjet printer. There is decal paper for laser printers which I'm sure is the way to go if you have a laser printer. Then spray the binder spray over the sheet a couple of times and let dry for at least a day. After that you cut out the decal with an Xcto blade and QUICKLY dip, and I'm talkin like 1 second, in warm water and wait about 30 seconds then slide onto the model. I have only done this on FLAT surfaces and I haven't yet tried any color other than black. My advice...practice A LOT, before you do it for real.

[chyll2]

anyone tried DYEs on their VFs? Or anyone care to share a link for a WIP or finished project using Dye? (there are lot of stuff in google search but I cant find Valkyrie specific projects)

[CoreyD]

I actually raised that same question some years ago. The general consensus was that because you have to heat up the parts in order to accept RIT dyes, there was a major risk of deformation and warping.

I don't know if anyone has actually tried it on MW.

[chyll2]

Okay, will probably try it on the holiday since I got plenty of time to burn.

[derex3592]

What's DYE???

[EXO]

I tried dyeing a 1/48... it didn't take. I put a Roy VF-1S into black dye and it came out CF brown. And it took a long time too. I even put acetone in the dye like some people suggested. It didn't warp though. It would have been great if it worked because dyeing a valk would be better than laying down a base color. If it scratched it wouldn't be that obvious.

[chyll2]

What's DYE???

dunno the exact definition but you can google it. For this case, it is the vinyl dye that is originally designed to change the color of fabric/clothes to a darker color. It was seen used in other hobby (for example, remote Controlled stuff) to change the color of the plastic (like frame or outer shell) without painting since painting can be chipped off.

I tried dyeing a 1/48... it didn't take. I put a Roy VF-1S into black dye and it came out CF brown. And it took a long time too. I even put acetone in the dye like some people suggested. It didn't warp though. It would have been great if it worked because dyeing a valk would be better than laying down a base color. If it scratched it wouldn't be that obvious.

Aw, that is too bad. I got too excited. Well I can still try on the runners. I am planning a camo for my VF-1 and laying down two coats will pretty much require me to re-scribe the panel lines (Which i am something not yet accustomed to)

[Quagga]

Would the Revell 39199 set with compressor @ €100 be OK to start with?

For example:

http://www.modelbouwbloemendaal.nl/index.php?item=revell-39199-basic-set-with-compressor&action=article&group_id=10000536&aid=48260〈=en

Or would I be better off with something like a Iwata Neo and a second-hand compressor?

My LHS has the Revell and provides good support...

[Kylwell]

I just need to ask a basic question about double action airbrushes. Is it possible to control the amount of air by how much you press down on the trigger button? Or is it controlled from the compressor itself--as in you adjust the PSI on the compressor and just press the trigger button all the way down, getting a constant amount of air?

I'm asking this because the airbrushes I've tried at an art shop seem to all have poor sensitivity when it comes to airflow control. It's hard to get a gradual increase in airflow, since the trigger is so stiff--when ever I press down on it, i usually end up using so much force that I press it all the way to the bottom.

The store owner tells me that you're supposed to control the airflow from the compressor itself instead of trying to do so on the fly via the airbrush, but sellers will tell you anything to get you to buy their stuff. So, I'd just like to get a confirmation on this.

Thanks in advance!

Sometimes you need to modify your grip to get better pressure control. I'll hook 3 fingers around the valve/hose part and use my index & thumb to control pressure and flow.

[SchizophrenicMC]

I'm a bit late to the party, but here's my experience:

I have only dipped my toe into this a couple of times. It's tricky to say the least. I bought a pack of Testors decal paper $10, and a can of Testors decal bonded spray from Hobby Lobby. I make the text I want in Microsoft Word, and try SEVERAL test prints on normal paper first to assure the print goes into the right area of the paper as the decal sheets are only about 5x7. There's probably better bigger sheets made by other companies, I just haven't checked. After you do a successful test print, send the decal sheet through the printer. I use my Canon Inkjet printer. There is decal paper for laser printers which I'm sure is the way to go if you have a laser printer. Then spray the binder spray over the sheet a couple of times and let dry for at least a day. After that you cut out the decal with an Xcto blade and QUICKLY dip, and I'm talkin like 1 second, in warm water and wait about 30 seconds then slide onto the model. I have only done this on FLAT surfaces and I haven't yet tried any color other than black. My advice...practice A LOT, before you do it for real.

I also used the Testors decal kit and spray, but I didn't let it rest for a day. Maybe 10 minutes? I got just fine results. The only issues were due to my printer's low quality (Canon iP2600) and my shoddy skills with decals.

Question -- say I wanted to get into the game of printing my own decals?

Are there reasonably priced printers that are good for the job?

What sort of decal paper works best?

I've gotten reasonable results from a Canon iP2600 inkjet printer on Testors' paper, but it's just the printer I had lying around. I'd really like to get a laser printer though. They have much finer resolution and better color. DecalPaper.com sells laser printer compatible decal paper in a few sizes.

Hey, what all can you guys recommend for airbrush painting booths? I am going to need to airbrush things soon. Do you guys recommend any of these little fan systems they sell on Amazon, etc.? Or do you do something else? I would prefer something I can use inside since it is starting to get damned cold outside, even in the garage.

I've been using a rubbermaid bin with a kitchen range hood fan screwed into the bottom, with a dryer vent tube running off the back. It works modestly well, but I've been considering other options. All the same, I don't know if I can justify a $100+ application-specific paint booth. I'm probably going to build another one, this time with an automotive airbox and plexiglass sheet instead of a rubbermaid bin.

[Noyhauser]

Would the Revell 39199 set with compressor @ 100 be OK to start with?

For example:

http://www.modelbouwbloemendaal.nl/index.php?item=revell-39199-basic-set-with-compressor&action=article&group_id=10000536&aid=48260〈=en

Or would I be better off with something like a Iwata Neo and a second-hand compressor?

My LHS has the Revell and provides good support...

Hi Quagga... sorry for the late reply.

I'd go with a second hand compressor and a Iwata Revolution CR. Its a higher quality AB than the NEO, and can be found at really reasonable prices second hand. Its how I started modelling seriously... and I still use the CR to this day for large area painting. I guess I would suggest you do a fair bit of research on a model before you buy it. I bought a Senco PC1010, which is a really highly regarded compressor at a really reasonable price in the U.S. However it might not be as cheap in Europe. Really it is a question of what might be available for you.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Noyhauser

[MechTech]

Has anyone here used a clear coating that won't make Sharpie perm ink pens run? - MT

[chyll2]

Has anyone here used a clear coating that won't make Sharpie perm ink pens run? - MT

if you are looking for a relatively cool Clear coat. I suggest try the following: (though I am not sure myself)

Spraycan:

this specific coat from MR hobby since these are acrylic based coat and they are using a thinner that is a lot cooler than most stuff I used. The other clearcoat product from MR is already lacquer based which is both harmful to almost anything if not used sparingly

the specific product code is B501, B502 and B503 which represents gloss, satin/semi gloss and matte/flat coat.

For airbrush and handbrush:

There are a lot options. The most famous Gloss coat is Future or Pledge. These are sold as floor wax but they are not really wax. These are water-based acrylic coat that can be thinned with water (or alcohols)

Any other clear acrylic products works as well.

Edited January 6, 2015 by chyll2

[MechTech]

Thanks Chyll, maybe I'll give Future a shot. There's fixatives that work great with papers, but I've found they are different with plastics and non-porous surfaces. Maybe I'll try some with added flatcoat.- MT