So now that Yamato is defunct.....

[Vifam7]

Licenses are mostly held by scale in the toy world. Even tough 1/72 seems the norm in models and most toys, Yamato was very smart to focus on 1/60 knowing how completest collectors tend to be which is why almost every other scale VF-1 release fails, If you were able to 1/60 valks PT from Yamato why would you want a 1/100 partsformer.

Yamato should've continued in 1/48 scale instead of switching over to 1/60 scale. If they were going to switch to a slightly smaller size, why didn't they use 1/72? It irks me that Yamato's Valkyries are out of scale with just about everything else (most annoyingly with real life aircraft models) save a handful of PG Gundam models.

For some reason it seems some Macross fans only want one choice, whereas fans of other franchises are fine with supporting multiple scale sizes or brand lines.

.

[Lolicon]

Yamato couldn't stay in business on sales with just one scale, so why would they release each unit in multiple scales? I'm not going to buy each VF-1 variant in 1/72, 1/60, and 1/48, not with how much they cost each. And I'm definitely not going to do that for any of the less popular characters. Who wants that many Kakizakis?

[Valkyrie addict]

I supposed 1/72 PT VF-1 would be too fragile and 1/48 YF-19, YF-21, VF-0, etc... would be humongous.

Altough, I dream of a 1/48 VF-4

[Scyla]

I also think that the 1/60 scale is a good scale for PT Valkyries I think. It's large enough to include sturdy parts and transformation as well as good gimmicks, line-art accuracy, anime accurate decal printings and mold details.

I would assume that a 1/72 VF-19 for example would be not worth the asking price because the development (developing the same toy in a smaller scale with the same features would mean more work) and production costs (due to more potential mistakes while assembling and painting the toy) would increase thus resulting in a toy that is smaller but might cost the same or more. Material costs are not that big of a deal in the first wave of production. Please keep in mind that the Bandai 1/72 Plamo of the VF-1 is a kit that comes without paint and unassembled.

The 1/48 on the other hand are cool because they are so big but some collectors (myself included) would buy less toys because the run out of display space much quicker. And while material costs might not be the biggest contribution to the end price a 1/48 VF-19 might cost more. Also with a 1/48 scale a manufacturer might think twice to develop and produce an unpopular variant.

So I feel that 1/60 hits the sweet spot regarding PT Valykries.

[Vifam7]

I also think that the 1/60 scale is a good scale for PT Valkyries I think. It's large enough to include sturdy parts and transformation as well as good gimmicks, line-art accuracy, anime accurate decal printings and mold details.

I would assume that a 1/72 VF-19 for example would be not worth the asking price because the development (developing the same toy in a smaller scale with the same features would mean more work) and production costs (due to more potential mistakes while assembling and painting the toy) would increase thus resulting in a toy that is smaller but might cost the same or more. Material costs are not that big of a deal in the first wave of production. Please keep in mind that the Bandai 1/72 Plamo of the VF-1 is a kit that comes without paint and unassembled.

The 1/48 on the other hand are cool because they are so big but some collectors (myself included) would buy less toys because the run out of display space much quicker. And while material costs might not be the biggest contribution to the end price a 1/48 VF-19 might cost more. Also with a 1/48 scale a manufacturer might think twice to develop and produce an unpopular variant.

So I feel that 1/60 hits the sweet spot regarding PT Valykries.

Considering that Bandai's 1/100 scale Hi-Metal is quite sturdy, the argument that it needs to be 1/60 size for sturdiness doesn't really hold water anymore. And these days, I've seen amazing detail on diecast airplanes all the way down to 1/144 scale.

While I'd agree that the pricing would not be much different between 1/60 and 1/72, in terms of size, a 1/72 VF-19 would be just as big as a 1/60 VF-1. A 1/60 VF-0 is about the same size as a 1/48 VF-1.

[jvmacross]

I think most collectors of Yamato valks are too invested in the 1/60 scale to start messing with any other scale at this point....

I do hope that if Arcadia does start back up with valk releases....that they slow it down and utilize the "made to order" approach on valks that clearly would not have a mass appeal (for example, the rest of Fire Bomber) ....we'll see I guess...

Still have hopes for a TV 1/3000 SDF-1, FB2012 VF-4, VF-14, and Varuta valks....

Edited May 1, 2013 by jvmacross

[skullmilitia]

I think most collectors of Yamato valks are too invested in the 1/60 scale to start messing with any other scale at this point....

I do hope that if Arcadia does start back up with valk releases....that they slow it down and utilize the "made to order" approach on valks that clearly would not have a mass appeal (for example, the rest of Fire Bomber) ....we'll see I guess...

Still have hopes for a TV 1/3000 SDF-1, FB2012 VF-4, VF-14, and Varuta valks....

if they retained the licenses, a VF-4 repaint will most certainly be on the table, maybe not at the near end, but there.

[Valkyrie addict]

Varuata valks?? I would rather have the VF-14 that the Varuata refitted.

[Kicker773]

................................................................................................................................................................................?

[Shaorin]

not only that, but 1/60 is about as small a scale as you can realistically expect to get in a PT VF-1 toy

that has multiple gimmicks such as functional landing gear, while remaining reasonably durable and easy to work with.

true 1/72 and 1/100 is simply too damned small for much beyond a simplistic parts-former,

and few, if any today are willing to settle for those shortcuts anymore after living through 20+ years of being force-fed them...

Edited May 1, 2013 by Shaorin

[jenius]

I would whole-heartedly disagree with the notion that 1/60 is about as small as you can realistically expect in a PT VF-1. Bandai got extremely close to doing it at 1/90ish scale. The real problem 1/60 scale is that it doesn't work for Macross. It works for the VF-1 but that's it. It's too big a scale to ever get anything Zentraedi or just about any of the VFs that came after the VF-1. I think that's how Yamato helped back themselves in a corner. They were selling huge toys so now they had to make them super deluxe and price themselves out of the range of a good chunk of the market. I've been lobbying for a 1/72 Macross universe for a while now. I think it makes a ton of sense.

[Lolicon]

I had no problem with Yamato moving from 1/48 scale since I was not heavily invested in it, and any valks besides the VF-1 would have been gigantic.

Going from 1/60 to 1/72 is another story. I'm not re-buying all my valks in 1/72 scale. I already own (almost) all the valks I ever wanted, and I'm not starting all over again with Macross. They'll probably cost almost as much as 1/60, and while I don't doubt they could make PT in 1/72, what could they possibly offer that the 1/60 scale doesn't that would make me want to buy them again? Not all of us have the kind of wealth where we can drop thousands of dollars into more toys without a second thought.

[jvmacross]

1/60 or let it RIP.....no more yanky my wanky Arcadia!!!

Edited May 2, 2013 by jvmacross

[MacrossJunkie]

Bandai also followed suit and put theirs out at 1/60 scale as well. Having collected as much as I have, I'd have zero interest in collecting all over again at 1/72 scale. If they were to move to 1/72, I think their main market would be those just getting into collecting Macross stuff that missed out on most of the 1/60 items or people who wanted the 1/60 stuff but couldn't afford it, which I'm sure is more than just a few. I think a great many people who have already gotten quite a bit in their collection at 1/60 will end up passing. They would be essentially trading one target audience for another.

[SaitouSad]

Going a little off-topic, I really wouldn't mind it much if Bandai makes an SDF-1, about the same size as the Macross Quarter. At least if it'll mean it would be slightly more affordable

[Vifam7]

Bandai also followed suit and put theirs out at 1/60 scale as well. Having collected as much as I have, I'd have zero interest in collecting all over again at 1/72 scale. If they were to move to 1/72, I think their main market would be those just getting into collecting Macross stuff that missed out on most of the 1/60 items or people who wanted the 1/60 stuff but couldn't afford it, which I'm sure is more than just a few. I think a great many people who have already gotten quite a bit in their collection at 1/60 will end up passing. They would be essentially trading one target audience for another.

That's why I think, the upcoming Bandai kit kinda works out. It's not aiming for the longtime 1/60 Yamato/DX collectors. It's aiming for a different segment and its price isn't so high as to compete with them. At around US$40, I can satisfy my wish for 1/72 despite already having some 1/60 Yamatos.

[jenius]

I had no problem with Yamato moving from 1/48 scale since I was not heavily invested in it, and any valks besides the VF-1 would have been gigantic.

Going from 1/60 to 1/72 is another story. I'm not re-buying all my valks in 1/72 scale. I already own (almost) all the valks I ever wanted, and I'm not starting all over again with Macross. They'll probably cost almost as much as 1/60, and while I don't doubt they could make PT in 1/72, what could they possibly offer that the 1/60 scale doesn't that would make me want to buy them again? Not all of us have the kind of wealth where we can drop thousands of dollars into more toys without a second thought.

Here's the problem with your logic:

1) Yamato 1/60 VF-1

2) Yamato V2 1/60 VF-1

3) Bandai 1/60 DX VF-25

4) Bandai 1/60 "renewal" DX VF-25

You're already going to buy all these valks again. What was Yamato's future plans? Renewals of all the valks you already owned.

[MacrossJunkie]

The thing is that a bunch of the existing valk releases have already hit a threshold, at least in my opinion, where further improvements would likely be of minimal consequence and would be on diminishing returns overall. Some valks are just begging for a renewal like the 1/60 YF-19 and probably the 21 as well. Others like the VF-1, VF-4, VF-11, VF-19, and arguably the VF-17 are pretty much as good as you're going to get with them. Any further changes are mostly going to be making one compromise for a different one due to the anime magic involved in the designs or some "quality of life" improvements that just make things easier or work a little better but not really have a big enough impact to make people want to buy all over again.

On Bandai's end, they just pretty much just need to do a VF-27 renewal and that's that. The VF-25 v2, VF-171, and YF-29 are already pretty much dead ringers for the line art and any further improvements would likely be minor stuff like how things lock together or something. I can pretty confidently say that a VF-25 v3 re-renewal wouldn't be met with as much enthusiasm as we saw going from the huge jump in quality and design from v1 to v2.

So people wouldn't necessarily be buying certain valks all over again.

I personally think there is enough room in the market for 1/60 and 1/72 to co-exist as long as the 1/72 tends to be in the sub $100 range. The 1/72 would see the bulk of the new releases while the 1/60 would be mostly re-issues unless they decide to make a valk not yet released in 1/60 scale. In which case, both scales could be made and they would be each hitting different target audiences with a minimal amount of overlap. I could see the 1/60 releases being web only like the VF-4G though.

Licensing two scales simultaneously is a whole different issue though.

[raptormesh]

Any improvements on the 21 mold would be slight, and as evident by the market they can't really pump out a lot of variants that would sell, as much as I would like that to happen. A renewal of the 19 would make a lot more sense.

I would actually purchase 1/72 toy valks as they scale with my fighter aircraft collection but that may fragment the market a little.

[jvmacross]

Here's the problem with your logic:

1) Yamato 1/60 VF-1

2) Yamato V2 1/60 VF-1

3) Bandai 1/60 DX VF-25

4) Bandai 1/60 "renewal" DX VF-25

You're already going to buy all these valks again. What was Yamato's future plans? Renewals of all the valks you already owned.

Well.....thing is....how many V1 VF's were out by the time Yamato decided to reboot?...not as many as were actually released in V2 form.....so it was a bit easier to swallow I think....thus it can be argued that the "investment" into the V1 VF line wasn't that big of a deal.....

Now as for the Bandai V1 -25's.....yeah.....many just were plain cornholed on that debacle.....and with the "difficulties" in attaining the "renewals"...it just added salt to the wound.....but still....4 valks isn't all that bad to replace....

So it makes sense to redo the YF-19.....many want that....but to redo the V2 VF-1 when no one is really asking for it....would be a bad move for Arcadia....they need to finish off the 1/60 VF line and then see if it is worth it to re-invent that wheel again....

[Chronocidal]

The problem with wanting them in 1/72 is that if people want them in scale with their models, they've already got a slew of 1/72 models available, both from Hasegawa and Bandai. Not saying people wouldn't want transforming toys in 1/72 too sometimes, but if you plan to display them, and you've got models already that you want them in scale with, a $20-$30 model kit is going to look a lot better than a $100+ toy.

Bandai's kind of going that route now with their VF-1 kit, so we'll see how it goes, but I wonder how many different fighters they'll produce. Give me transformable YF/VF-19s and such, and I'll happily grab some.

Coming from building models for years though, I personally really do appreciate the 1/60 scale. It's not huge like 1/48 kits tend to get, and kits that would be pretty tiny in 1/72 become fairly manageable sizes. It's an oddball scale no doubt, but it's a nice middle ground. I kind of wish I could get more models in 1/60 to go with my valks.

[jenius]

I guess a nice compromise might be if Arcadia became a model manufacturer and built models (not overpriced HDP kits) in 1/60 scale. Still though, 1/72 works so much better for the Macross universe since so many things are very large. If 1/72 had been the scale of choice we might have actually gotten Regults and Glaugs.

[jvmacross]

.... I kind of wish I could get more models in 1/60 to go with my valks.

.....and that's where the 3D artistes thankfully come in.....

I guess a nice compromise might be if Arcadia became a model manufacturer and built models (not overpriced HDP kits) in 1/60 scale. Still though, 1/72 works so much better for the Macross universe since so many things are very large. If 1/72 had been the scale of choice we might have actually gotten Regults and Glaugs.

perfect candidates for "made to order" wares....I do hope that happens!

[xrentonx]

I like 1/60th scale just fine. The size of the Valks in this scale just feels "right" in my hands. I could care less that 1/60th is an odd scale and for the most part that my Valks are out of scale with real world aircraft models. I only care that they are in scale with each other.

Also, I don't care about Regults and Zentran and the other things...well...I do a little but not enough to make my Valks any smaller than 1/60.

I'm not opposed to 1/72 but it better be one hell of an improvement in every other way for me to ever get rid of all the 1/60 Valks I already have.

Edited May 2, 2013 by xrentonx

[jenius]

Just because a new scale comes along doesn't mean you need to junk the old! 1/72 would be smaller second generation toys. They'd be slight improvements based on feedback from the first generation. They'd also be slightly more basic thus making them cheaper to manufacture. Since they'd be cheaper to make that'd make it less likely a few bad releases would sink the manufacturing company. It would also free up the manufacturer to take more risks. The benefit of the smaller scale isn't to make the same super deluxe toy but scaled down, it's making a slightly less deluxe but at a scale that would allow a more complete universe. The counter argument would be "We don't care, we'll just keep paying more and more!" which was the path everyone was on before Yamato shuttered its doors. The problem is, when both Yamato and Bandai have tested the less deluxe waters they've failed. My deduction would be that the demand for Macross comes from adults with lots of disposable income who care more about features than they do price.

Edited May 2, 2013 by jenius

[Gakken85]

I think the 1/48's are more fun, and the transformation is easier. But I think the 1/60 is a better piece.

That said, I think the VF-0's are the best of both worlds as it's almost a 1/48 but considered a 1/60.

Anyway, The size of the toy isn't as big of an issue to me as the size of the frakking boxes. That's one thing Bandai has down over Yamato. They pack a toy tight.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Gakken85

[Lolicon]

Here's the problem with your logic:

1) Yamato 1/60 VF-1

2) Yamato V2 1/60 VF-1

3) Bandai 1/60 DX VF-25

4) Bandai 1/60 "renewal" DX VF-25

You're already going to buy all these valks again. What was Yamato's future plans? Renewals of all the valks you already owned.

The problem with your logic is that you assume I bought all that crap. I skipped the V1 VF-1s and I skipped all the Bandai VF-25s before the renewals.

[jenius]

The problem with your logic is that you assume I bought all that crap. I skipped the V1 VF-1s and I skipped all the Bandai VF-25s before the renewals.

But your argument is that you don't want to buy everything again... and the plan was for new versions of the same things you already owned so regardless if you do or don't own the examples, you're still in the same spot.

[xrentonx]

Wish we knew exactly what caused Yamato to go bankrupt though. Can't really say it's because of Macross alone...Yamato makes a ton of other stuff as well...

I only own one V1...the full armored Ozma. I keep it in fighter mode because it is an atrocity outside of fighter mode. It is an affront to good taste!

I'm so glad I have nothing but V2s for everything else.

[Gakken85]

I'm sure it has something to do with Transformation toys being such a low money maker.

[Lolicon]

But your argument is that you don't want to buy everything again... and the plan was for new versions of the same things you already owned so regardless if you do or don't own the examples, you're still in the same spot.

And I say again: what could they possibly do in 1/72 that they haven't already done in 1/60 that would justify the huge cash layout for new valks? I and others aren't going to drop that kind of money on something we already have, just in a slightly smaller scale. The V2 VF-1 is a near perfect toy, unlike the old V1s or the atrocious Bandai V1 VF-25s.

Now if they want to capture a new audience or provide valks for peeps who missed the boat on the previous releases, that's cool. But for those of us who have more or less completed our collections, there's not much incentive to spend that kind of money again.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Lolicon

[jenius]

Let's say the next toy was a 1/72 V2 YF-19 was significantly improved over the V1 but maybe didn't go completely nuts and include things like a slide out forearm gun and cost 14,000 Yen to compete more closely with Bandai's DX toys (as opposed to the 20,000+ a 1/60V2 would certainly go for). I'm pretty sure that if the 1/72 looked better in all modes than the 1/60V1 and had better articulation people would still line up to buy it. I don't think everyone would start saying "yeah, it's better, but it doesn't fit with the universe inside my other boxes of toys in the closet." I think the drive to own the best rendition would outweigh the marriage to a scale none of us cared about a decade ago. The next toy could easily be a VF-0 where Arcadia could pull off an improved toy in a smaller scale with little difficulty. Now people would own two 1/72 toys (and maybe some variants) and the ball would be officially rolling. Then they release some 1/72 models of Zentraedi weapons and we're off to the races... now the 1/72 universe might eventually be MORE broad than the 1/60 one was.

This is all hypothetical and almost certainly not going to happen so it's not worth arguing over. Collecting is never about getting to the end of collecting though.

Edited May 2, 2013 by jenius

[Lolicon]

Dream on, man, dream on.

Yamato went belly-up for a reason. And the YF-19 is a poor example since even the 1/60 version is a piece of crap.

But you're right. It's not about collecting to the end. But for some of us, we'd rather spend that money on new horizons instead of retreading old ground.

I've moved on to other things now that Yamato is gone.

/preorders an Iron Man Mark 42

Edited May 2, 2013 by Lolicon

[EXO]

I skipped the V.1 1/60 VF-1s and the VF-25s because they looked like crap. The smartest thing that Yamato did was NOT to release 2 seaters in 1/48 because they would have lost a lot of people who would have thought their collection was complete. It was evident that they were pushing for those people to invest in the v.2 when they released the VF-1D in less than a year from releasing the first v.2 1/60 VF-1.

I'm not convinced that Yamato closed up shop because of Macross Toys... or maybe if it had something to do with Macross toys it was more because of the mismanagement of how they released them. I'm more inclined to think that they closed up because of the same reason why other businesses are closing. Bad management, not a lousy license... why even pursue it further if it sucks so bad?

[Tober]

Has it actually, factually been established that Yamato "went bust"?

Takara (Transformers) and Tomy merged back in 2006 in order to cut costs and stay afloat. Isn't it possible that Yamato did something similar with Arcadia..?

--------

Unless Arcadia pull of some amazing engineering for a 1/72 line, I'm basically done collecting the VF-1 line. I have all of the Valks I truly want.