GPU-9 and GU-11 Gunpods

[VA-3 Invader]

I always thought that the 200 rounds of the GU-11 55mm Gunpod seem insufficient for a weapon meant to be used in large scale battles, and later on in the SW1, used by rookies who would most likely end up wasting precious ammo.

After hearing about the GPU-9 35mm Gunpod used by the VF-0, which has 550 rounds and can even be reloaded in the field, I wondered if it was possible that the VF-1 could also be equipped with this weapon depending on the situation.

The GPU-9 could be the weapon given to rookie pilots and in situations where a prolongued battle could be expected, while the GU-11 could be used by more seasoned pilots, armored units and for situations where hand-to-hand combat or against heavily armored targets is expected.

And just in case, has there been any retcon to the original specs of the GU-11 Gundpod (maybe after the release of Macross Zero)?

[azrael]

And just in case, has there been any retcon to the original specs of the GU-11 Gundpod (maybe after the release of Macross Zero)?

No.

And proper training teaches you not to spray-&-pray. You are taught to shoot in controlled bursts. Other notes to consider are the GU-11's 55mm bullet compared to the GPU-9's 35mm bullet. Larger bullet, more punch/round, less ammo. And 1 real-life note, a Su-27 and 37 both use a GSh-30 30mm gun with ~150 rounds.

[Kaldar5]

Considering Valks have both hands and smaller fine manipulators for detail & repair work (SDF ep3 ~05:00); you would think they would have at least the capability to reload in the field.

It's understandable that jet would not.

[VF5SS]

I wonder if the design of the VF-0's gun pod was meant to be different than it is in order to reflect its ability to reload like the later Valkyrie guns. Even the Master File doesn't attempt to tackle its internals.

[sketchley]

If memory serves, the GPU-9 is also longer than the GU-11. Smaller cartridge size + longer barrel = more ammo.

Considering Valks have both hands and smaller fine manipulators for detail & repair work (SDF ep3 ~05:00); you would think they would have at least the capability to reload in the field.

The GU-11 and other gun pods from it's era have the ammo belts wrapped around the cowling of the weapon. Where would such belts be stored on the airframe? Where would they find the time to have the internal motors spool the belt into the weapon?

I wonder if the design of the VF-0's gun pod was meant to be different than it is in order to reflect its ability to reload like the later Valkyrie guns. Even the Master File doesn't attempt to tackle its internals.

I believe it ended up looking the way it did is because of the requirements of the design: test prototype meets established VF-1 design. With a layer of 20+ years of real world technological advancements added on top.

EDIT: not liking the updated forum software's auto format setting... had to edit this twice just to get it readily legibly!

Edited March 15, 2013 by sketchley

[Kaldar5]

The GU-11 and other gun pods from it's era have the ammo belts wrapped around the cowling of the weapon. Where would such belts be stored on the airframe? Where would they find the time to have the internal motors spool the belt into the weapon?

Note: Friendly conjecture - at some point we are all just having fun BSing if it's not covered in official material.

They have onboard robotic hands specifically made for repair. (At least the "S" models, I wouldn't want Kakizaki trying to operate repair arms)

They would find the time for simple task of reloading a weapon around the same down time they use that repair ability I would assume.

Stored on the airframe? I wasn't saying that. If it's standard ammo, then it likely would be readily available, dropped into a combat zone in advance, or made available from small support craft on extended missions. But on the airframe? Quite a few Valks have optional two seat configs. When you take the extra seat out, that makes for a decent sized storage. (Would not be my first choice for where to keep the ammo in offline storage though!)

[EXO]

They're trained not to empty the cartridge, but it's opposite with the missiles.

[Damaramu]

Are there any good cutaway diagrams of either gunpod?

[Macross_Fanboy]

They're trained not to empty the cartridge, but it's opposite with the missiles.

^^

This!

[anime52k8]

If memory serves, the GPU-9 is also longer than the GU-11. Smaller cartridge size + longer barrel = more ammo.

The GU-11 and other gun pods from it's era have the ammo belts wrapped around the cowling of the weapon.

you know, this always struck me as a bad idea, having all of your ammo wrapped around the hot barrels of the gun.

[VF5SS]

Yeah but that's how it's done in real life.

[Mr March]

Are there any good cutaway diagrams of either gunpod?

My website does feature a picture of the old cutaway from the Gold Book poster, which displays a somewhat rudimentary internal structure of the GU-11 Gun Pod.

http://macross2.net/m3/macrossdyrl/vf-1a-fastpack/vf-1-fastpack-internals.gif

There are also some new color diagrams in the issue of the Macross Chronicle on gun pods. I'll see if I can find it.

[VF5SS]

The Variable Fighter Master File has a clear cutaway.

[Spitze]

I wonder why they went back to the non-reloadable architectures for the VF-25's gunpod though...

[sketchley]

I wonder why they went back to the non-reloadable architectures for the VF-25's gunpod though...

In universe, I can't remember a specific reason (pre-morning coffee at the mo'.)

Out of universe: Kawamori-san et al wanted a design motif for the VF-25 that took things back to SDFM. The gun pod was one of the parts of the VF design that reflected that.

[Spitze]

Honestly, reverting to no-reloading doesn't make sense.

[sketchley]

Honestly, reverting to no-reloading doesn't make sense.

Why's that?

Maybe a better question would be: could you design a better exchangeable magazine and feed mechanism for that calibre Gatling gun in the aerodynamic and size constraints placed on the VF-1's gun pod, and have you read the translation of the MC sheets that go into detail about the development of the GU-11 from the GPU-9?

Edited April 3, 2013 by sketchley

[TehPW]

Honestly, reverting to no-reloading doesn't make sense.

it does when you dont have the space to hold extra clips... compare the method in how the VF-11 reloaded. the clip for the VF-11 gunpod (the designation eludes me...) is huge but so is the shield that the ammo rests under. I think the VF-19 has a bullpup method of clip loading. There is no evidence the VF-25 has the same ablity, mostly because the gun barrel is so huge compared to previous model VFs. (maybe. never seen the movies, LOL)

[Spitze]

IIRC, doesn't the VF-17 also have reloadable drums?

[azrael]

IIRC, doesn't the VF-17 also have reloadable drums?

Yes. But it also has space for either a spare magazine or a beam gunpod adapter, not both.

[sketchley]

One other thing (that I think most of us have overlooked, myself included), is that the VF-0 is an experimental fighter, the VF-1 et al up to the VF-9* are all mass-produced, the majority of them after the Earth's manufacturing and production capabilities were completely destroyed!

So, the decision to not include it may simply have been down to economics (it cost too much) or other technological limitations (the experimental system in the GPU-9 was prone to jamming or something when upscaled for the VF-1).

Despite the VF-11, VF-17 and VF-19 having replaceable magazines, the Y/VF-21/22 and VF-25 do not. The type of ammunition (caseless) and its size (55 mm+) may be playing an important factor in whether a gun pod can have an exchangeable magazine, on top of such limiters as lack of places to store spare magazines on the airframe.

* I want to say the VF-10, but I don't think it exists.

[Vespaeda]

This begs an answer.

Even 'in-Universe' storytelling could accomodate such a feature without it being 'anime-magic' overkill. Any pitched combat situation of the present or the foreseeable future would make 'speed-loading' a foregone conclusion/option, if main weaponry is a projectile, auto-cannon type.

I can understand SW-1 circumstances leaving it out in the cold due to the catastrophe/war-emergency constraints, but future models?

I've created my own variable fighters based around the legacy F/A-18 Hornet and the EA-6B, back in 2002...a year before the Yamato 1/48 VF-1 debuted and about the time of Macross Zero. Knowing the limitations of the GU-11 then, 'speed-reloading' from fuselage/forearm stowage in battroid-mode was a design point on my Hornet 'valk'. The semi-circular intakes were much becoming my forearms while the splitter-plate enlarged and deepened as arm-shields; with internal ammo stowage on 'zip-linked', retractable belts integral to these.

I hadn't decided exactly how much could be stored there as I hadn't gotten deep enough into the details of exact dimensions. Once I retire, God-willing I can brush of these drawings and detail them.

[VF5SS]

Well we never see it reload during the anime so it's not really a big deal.

[sketchley]

I can understand SW-1 circumstances leaving it out in the cold due to the catastrophe/war-emergency constraints, but future models?

I'm not quite following, here. Do you mean the gun pods have to be used in the cold, ie: the vacuum of space? Or are you using it more in the metaphysical sense ie: the aspect is abandoned?

[Mr March]

Are there any good cutaway diagrams of either gunpod?

My apologies, I forgot to look for the diagram I mentioned earlier. Here is the picture I was mentioning.

[Vespaeda]

I'm not quite following, here. Do you mean the gun pods have to be used in the cold, ie: the vacuum of space? Or are you using it more in the metaphysical sense ie: the aspect is abandoned?

sketchley,

My only intent of mentioning 'cold' was as a figure of speech, referencing any possible UN Spacy mandates or instructions concerning VF ordinance systems.

Was it a desirable option and considered important, the way the JSF program insisted upon VTOL/STOVL version being kept in the program, despite its handicap of 5,000lbs or so

...OR did they 'leave that out in the cold', 'show it no love'...ignore 'in sortie/flight' reload developement as superfluous; despite any frontline pilots wishing they had the option when swarmed by Zents, missiles or whatever.

[sketchley]

Thanx.