I am a weird macross fan...

[Tochiro]

there's really no such thing as bad macross. watch all of it.

I used to believe that too... and then FB7 happened...

[Pterobat]

Yeah, your story is pretty much standard for a lot of English-speaking Macross fans.

I recommend you watch everything in Macross, as you would with any other media franchise. You never know what you'll grow to like.

I started my Macross "journey" in 2008, and have seen everything except FB 7 (there doesn't seem to be a point). Sadly, the only works I call myself a fan of are SDFM and the Frontier movies, but I don't worry over that anymore. What I love, I love a hell of a lot.

[Gakken85]

So I watched Plus last night. It immediately stuck me as kind of cowboy beebop-y. I enjoyed the mecha design and animation, but the pointy noses and chins were kind of lame.

I also enjoyed that they had a Zentradi with some character development... but it didn't really feel like "Macross" for some reason. It was like any other generic anime to me. It seemed to be hitting the right notes but without the skill.

Also, there was no real sense of a battle and the valks seemed like an afterthought to whatever plot they were cooking up.

As for the Valks and toys:

I really only admire the design of the VF-11B and C. The VF11-C is sexy. Unfortunately it is barely in the movie. The 19 and 22 are... ok? I guess. I don't like the 19's robot mode at all, or fighter mode that much either. The 22 is a bit better but it doesn't make me want to collect one. What's with that helmet?

Macross is all about love triangles, but against the backdrop of great conflict. I didn't feel like there was much of a conflict in this film.

I'd give it a C at best.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Gakken85

[Gubaba]

So I watched Plus last night. It immediately stuck me as kind of cowboy beebop-y. I enjoyed the mecha design and animation, but the pointy noses and chins were kind of lame.

I also enjoyed that they had a Zentradi with some character development... but it didn't really feel like macross for some reason. It was like any other anime to me.

Also there was no real sense of a battle and the valks seemed like an after thought.

I really only admire the design of the VF-11B and C. The 19 and 22 are... ok. I don't like the 19's robot mode or fighter mode that much. The 22 is a bit better but it doesn't make me want to collect one.

Macross is all about love triangles, but against the backdrop of great conflict. I didn't feel like there was much of a conflict.

BLASPHEMY. Hangin' time.

[Kaldar5]

So I watched Plus last night. It immediately stuck me as kind of cowboy beebop-y. I enjoyed the mecha design and animation, but the pointy noses and chins were kind of lame.

I also enjoyed that they had a Zentradi with some character development... but it didn't really feel like macross for some reason. It was like any other anime to me.

Also there was no real sense of a battle and the valks seemed like an after thought.

I really only admire the design of the VF-11B and C. The 19 and 22 are... ok. I don't like the 19's robot mode or fighter mode that much. The 22 is a bit better but it doesn't make me want to collect one.

Macross is all about love triangles, but against the backdrop of great conflict. I didn't feel like there was much of a conflict.

Correct. I have many friends that ended up watching Macross Plus because it is the only one readily available in the US, and fell out of love with Macross.

Hey, it's a decent show, yeah. But it's not epic. Badass? Sure. Innovative? Yep. But not fully in the spirit of SDF/DYRL.

Now, go watch Macross Frontier. Your concerns about Plus are corrected in major ways.

It's why I have been saying that Frontier is the only one to truly live up to/come close to the original.

And the sharp noses/chins are what you get when you have everyone's favorite Mech designer Shouji Kawamori do people. He does the same in the later Escaflowne. He seems to like to try and "Get away with" how long/sharp he can make noses. Nobody's perfect I guess.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Kaldar5

[Gubaba]

And the sharp noses/chins are what you get when you have everyone's favorite Mech designer Shouji Kawamori do people. He does the same in the later Escaflowne. He seems to like to try and "Get away with" how long/sharp he can make noses. Nobody's perfect I guess.

Kawamori didn't do the people... Masayuki was the character designer for Plus, and Yuki Nobuteru was the character designer for Escaflowne.

[SuperSenpai]

For me, Mac Plus was an acquired taste. I enjoyed it more on subsequent viewings.

And for what it's worth, since my original post in this thread I have since finished about half of Macross Frontier. So far I'd give it an A. The animation quality is on par with Macross Zero. The VF-25 is in my top three Valkyries (VF-1 and VF-4 being the others). And the story and characters are great. I love the little nods to previous entries in the series. It has serious moments, but it's not nearly so dour as Mac Plus. The soap opera-ish, love triangle elements are there, along with plenty of space dogfighting, and there's some mystery regarding the Vajra, Sheryl, and Ranka. The music's pretty catchy too. And so far they don't overdo the mystical or music-can-save-us themes that bothered me in Mac Zero and Mac 7.

The only reason why I wouldn't give it an A+ is that it feels a bit funny to grade it higher the than SDFM. Also, at times it's almost a bit *too* light and cutesy. A lot of this has to do with Ranka.

[Kaldar5]

Kawamori didn't do the people... Masayuki was the character designer for Plus, and Yuki Nobuteru was the character designer for Escaflowne.

As clarification: I didn't say he was the Character Designer (Job title). But he did create the shows (as in "hey, I have an idea for a show, here are rough sketches of the characters, make this happen", then character designers produce production character designs)

But yeah, you are right, Yuki Nobuteru likely had more responsibility for the noses in Esca.

[Kaldar5]

And for what it's worth, since my original post in this thread I have since finished about half of Macross Frontier. So far I'd give it an A.

Go watch the rest!!! Go now!

The only reason why I wouldn't give it an A+ is that it feels a bit funny to grade it higher the than SDFM.

LOL religious devotion! Indeed sir.

SDFM is wonderful for it's time, and should be viewed with that in mind, just like Star Trek ToS.

Both available resources and technology of the era shouldn't detract from the story being told.

Watch the rest of the series 1-25 and the two movies before you totally pass judgement. The "impressions so far" are appreciated. Always nice to hear from people as they watch stuff for the first time.

[SuperSenpai]

SDFM is wonderful for it's time, and should be viewed with that in mind, just like Star Trek ToS.

Both available resources and technology of the era shouldn't detract from the story being told.

I gave SDFM an A rather than an A+ because the story had just the right combination of soap opera, action, drama, comedy, sci-fi elements, etc. BUT I knew that they could have done the animation better, even by standards of that time. A good portion of the episodes look like they had been done by another studio that did not put nearly the same care and attention to detail to the art. Just look at an episode like "Virgin Road" compared to an episode like "Burst Point" or "Love Drifts Away". If the entire series had been animated to be of the same visual quality as "Burst Point" or "Love Drifts Away", SDFM would have been an A+ in my book.

Edited March 15, 2013 by SuperSenpai

[Gakken85]

Yeah, the music in + was pretty forgettable too.

[Renato]

I gave SDFM an A rather than an A+ because the story had just the right combination of soap opera, action, drama, comedy, sci-fi elements, etc. BUT I knew that they could have done the animation better, even by standards of that time. A good portion of the episodes look like they had been done by another studio that did not put nearly the same care and attention to detail to the art.

They were, they were farmed out to Korean studio Star Pro. But it was either that, or no show at all, so pick your poison.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Renato

[SuperSenpai]

They were, they were farmed out to Korean studio Star Pro. But it was either that, or no show at all, so pick your poison.

I'm sure there was a good reason for doing that -- probably budget and time constraints. I'm just saying it would have been nice to have the entire series be animated in the same high quality as the episodes I mentioned, and it's not like it was impossible.

I'm probably in the minority on this, as I know a lot of people tend to be purists about these kind of things, but I would totally be on board with them doing a "masterpiece" version of Macross -- basically, keep the original series story, audio and dialogue tracks, and re-animate the visual portion to be of a consistent, high quality. Picture it -- the original series re-animated with DYRL-level visuals. I'd definitely go for that.

Edited March 16, 2013 by SuperSenpai

[Vifam7]

I'm sure there was a good reason for doing that -- probably budget and time constraints. I'm just saying it would have been nice to have the entire series be animated in the same high quality as the episodes I mentioned, and it's not like it was impossible.

I'm probably in the minority on this, as I know a lot of people tend to be purists about these kind of things, but I would totally be on board with them doing a "masterpiece" version of Macross -- basically, keep the original series story, audio and dialogue tracks, and re-animate the visual portion to be of a consistent, high quality. Picture it -- the original series re-animated with DYRL-level visuals. I'd definitely go for that.

The problem is that's never been done before and any new redo of a past anime work always gets some kind of change.

And they did that redo in 1984. DYRL is the masterpiece version of SDFM.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Vifam7

[s001]

What's with all the bashing about the noses on Mac+ and Escaflowne? That's just the style of the designers. Risa Ebata's characters look almost generic but we all loved Frontier.

[Kaldar5]

I'm sure there was a good reason for doing that -- probably budget and time constraints. I'm just saying it would have been nice to have the entire series be animated in the same high quality as the episodes I mentioned, and it's not like it was impossible.

I'm probably in the minority on this, as I know a lot of people tend to be purists about these kind of things, but I would totally be on board with them doing a "masterpiece" version of Macross -- basically, keep the original series story, audio and dialogue tracks, and re-animate the visual portion to be of a consistent, high quality. Picture it -- the original series re-animated with DYRL-level visuals. I'd definitely go for that.

Yeah, even hardcore purists usually have a change of heart on a remake after seeing the Pachinko game SDF-M clips

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVGFy3V7a7I

[Gakken85]

maaacoooo rosssss.

[Cdisdope]

Wow, really...no love for Macross Plus?!

Gakken85, my Macross timeline is quite similar. Like most kids living in the states, I grew up with Robotech in 85...and always wondered how Dana Sterling could be Max and Miriya's daughter (especially that she was a blonde, but when she was a baby her hair was green) So, I knew something didn't feel right. I liked the Macross saga and Next Generation parts.

July-August '85, took a family trip to the Philippines and had a stop-over in Narita, Japan. At the duty free shop was a 1/55 Hi Metal Bandai VF-1A. I begged my dad to buy me one and he did! Went to the Philippines and met my cousins for the first time and they saw my toy and kept saying "Macross". I was puzzled. Wasn't this "Robotech"?

It was an 8 year chasm of nothing Robotech related except re-watching the old episodes on VHS. Then, US Renditions released Macross II and it was..........aight. I wasn't into the Marduk and wondered what happened to the Zentraedi. It said Macross II, but there was no sign of Rick Hunter, Lisa Hayes, or Minmay, who I thought was far superior to Ishtar. Though, it was nice to see transforming fighters and a songstress again.

In high school '95, I had a friend who was really into anime. He rented a VHS tape of Macross Plus from a local Japanese video store in the San Fernando Valley (L.A.). I immediately fell in love with it after hearing Voices and how it cut straight into a dog fight scene of Isamu and rogue Zentradi (I think they were) in "Deep Space 2040". This was the first time that fans were able to see a transforming fighter with a totally different design in the VF-11 Thunderbolt. It stayed true to the original Macross storyline by having Zentradi in it. Even if it wasn't an important aspect of the story, it felt more "right" than the Marduk. It paved the way for Macross 7, by introducing new fighters. We learned that pilots are ALWAYS necessary and that it should be humans who control technology and not the other way around.

Sharon Apple's music was "forgettable"? Good. She was a virtual bitch. It makes us appreciate the idols even more. IMO, I think the music fits the theme of the story and is well produced.

[Gakken85]

It wasn't terrible, and it was good eye candy, but the story just didn't do much for me. Looking forward to 7 and Frontier.

[Mommar]

If Bandai were willing to foot the bill for an update of the original Macross that looked like the Pachinko machine I might be okay with them having the license for the VF-1 again...

[Kaldar5]

It wasn't terrible, and it was good eye candy, but the story just didn't do much for me. Looking forward to 7 and Frontier.

Frontier then maybe 7. Trust me. The only real reference to 7 in Frontier is smaller earlier dome colony ships, Sheryl saying "Listen to my song", and Ozma listening to "Classic Rock" from Firebomber in like 1-2 scenes.

[Valkyrie Magnus]

I too remember Robotech in 85 and then going to the Philippines and hearing my cousins their call it Macross. I did find an incomplete Bandai Elintseeker which I bought. For me I did like Macross Plus when it came out on VHS in the 90's and I loved it. But for me the best series after SDFM was Frontier. The music, mech, characters and animation is great.

[ff95gj]

Same suggestion/feeling there. Mac 7 is not for the faint-hearted.

I can't say it for others, but to me Mac 7 to Macross is more than G Gundam to Gundam, if you know what I mean.

Nope, we get your story alot here. Welcome back to the true essence of what you loved when you were young.


Skip Macross 7 and come back to that later. We don't want to lose you on the way
Mac 7 is not for everyone, and it's not the highest quality as far as combat scenes being a limited budget TV series.

If you were jaw dropped by Zero, prepare your chin strap for Frontier.

[ATLMYK]

So I watched Plus last night. It immediately stuck me as kind of cowboy beebop-y. I enjoyed the mecha design and animation, but the pointy noses and chins were kind of lame.

That was the style in anime in the 90's.

Edited March 20, 2013 by ATLMYK

[anime52k8]

That was the style in anime in the 90's.

I miss anime characters with defined facial features

[VF5SS]

Clearly someone isn't watching JoJo's!

[DuelGundam2099]

Here is how I rank the entire franchise:

Zero/25th Anniversary Air Shows > 7/Plus > Wings of Goodbye > The Galaxy is Calling Me > Frontier > Original Series > 2 > The False Songstress > Do You Remember Love > 7 Encore > Plus > Dynamite 7 > Plus Movie > XX > Nyankuri > Flash Back 2012

[Gakken85]

I miss anime characters with defined facial features

That was the style in anime in the 90's.

That doesn't mean it was good, or shouldn't be graded harshly in hindsight. haha. Also, being derivative of another show is still being lazy. Macross + just felt like it was on Auto-pilot to me. Pardon the pun. All the right story beats and elements, but no real soul or feeling.

And throwing the SDF-1 in at the end as some nod or connection point felt really forced.

But at least I found a Super VF-11c for 95 bucks . I don't need to buy anything else from that show

Edited March 20, 2013 by Gakken85

[Gubaba]

That doesn't mean it was good, or shouldn't be graded harshly in hindsight. haha. Also, being derivative of another show is still being lazy. Macross 7 just felt like it was on Auto-pilot to me. Pardon the pun. All the right story beats and elements, but no real soul or feeling.

And throwing the SDF-1 in at the end as some nod or connection point felt really forced.

Wait... the SDF-1 Macross showed up at the end of Macross 7...? WHEN...?

[Gakken85]

Wait... the SDF-1 Macross showed up at the end of Macross 7...? WHEN...?

Sorry, +.

FTFY.

[Gubaba]

Sorry, +.

FTFY.

DAMN YOU for getting my hopes up...

[VF5SS]

I don't think it's unfair to say aspects of Macross Plus aged more poorly than others. Isamu's t-shirt and shorts outfit is truly timeless though.

[Kaldar5]

Here is how I rank the entire franchise:

Zero/25th Anniversary Air Shows > 7/Plus > Wings of Goodbye > The Galaxy is Calling Me > Frontier > Original Series > 2 > The False Songstress > Do You Remember Love > 7 Encore > Plus > Dynamite 7 > Plus Movie > XX > Nyankuri > Flash Back 2012

Not sure if arrows list, or greater than symbols.

Either a basically wordless (yet wonderful) music video collection with no plot is the best Macross ever,

Or Macross 7 is rated higher than DYRL and you are the first person I have met that thinks Zero is the best.

Either way, more power to ya.

[VF-15 Banshee]

Ruefully: Duel, only you would think that Zero and a plotless music video are better than EVERYTHING else in the franchise.

[DuelGundam2099]

Not sure if arrows list, or greater than symbols.

Greater than symbols.

Either way, more power to ya.

Thanks, although any time I posted a list like at MAHQ people would think I'm forcing opinions down their throats/reminding them how "bad" my taste is and Chris or ShadowCell would think I was disrupting on purpose. Funny times.......

Duel, only you would think that Zero and a plotless music video are better than EVERYTHING else in the franchise.

Yeah and part of the reason I posted my ranking list of the franchise was so that Gakken85 would not feel so weird.