Playstation 4

[jwinges]

The PS4 so far is a huge disappointment.

1. Sorry...I don't want to stream games....here let me pay extra and use up my monthly 200gb of bandwidth through my service provider. I'm already using double what I'm supposed to.

2. Sony doesn't realize that the most boring thing in the world is watching someone else play a game. No I don't want to see your streamed videos of your play. Social aspects be damned.

3. I don't want a slimmed down counsel prone to overheating. Give me big with extra cooling capacity. Would love it if it were the size of my Denon Receivers.

4. No imcluded motion controlled gaming....not that I use it much myself but its great for the kiddies.

grrrrr

[azrael]

1. Sorry...I don't want to stream games....here let me pay extra and use up my monthly 200gb of bandwidth through my service provider. I'm already using double what I'm supposed to.

Sony has said there is an offline mode and that PS4 games will come on disc. PS2/PS3 games, which will be incompatible with the PS4 (due to the change in hardware architecture), will be streamed. Native support for older console titles will not exist on the PS4. Down the road for PS4 games? They may join their PS2/PS3 brethren and enter the cloud.

4. No imcluded motion controlled gaming....not that I use it much myself but its great for the kiddies.

Playstation Eye will be available...though, it will be a newer version. And the Move controllers will also be compatible. Will there be any motion-controlled gaming at release time? I don't recall Sony announcing anything.

[Ghost Train]

... /Yawn ... wake me up when there is news of next gen Ace Combat.

[Duke Togo]

The PS4 so far is a huge disappointment.

1. Sorry...I don't want to stream games....here let me pay extra and use up my monthly 200gb of bandwidth through my service provider. I'm already using double what I'm supposed to.

2. Sony doesn't realize that the most boring thing in the world is watching someone else play a game. No I don't want to see your streamed videos of your play. Social aspects be damned.

3. I don't want a slimmed down counsel prone to overheating. Give me big with extra cooling capacity. Would love it if it were the size of my Denon Receivers.

4. No imcluded motion controlled gaming....not that I use it much myself but its great for the kiddies.

grrrrr

1. Then you don't get to play the older generations' games. I understand not everyone here is tech-savvy, but this is not a new issue with gaming consoles. Short of putting PS2 and PS3 processor chips in the new PS4, there is no way to play the games on the system. Adding these chips raises the price of the system significantly.

2. Most boring thing in the world to you. They are tapping into a very large market by adding this feature.

3. We haven't even seen the console yet, I don't get what you are complaining about.

4. I was under the impression that it was built into the new controllers. I may be wrong on this point, however.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Duke Togo

[xrentonx]

Count me on the "interested" side of things. I'm not an early adopter anyway so it'll be at least a year or a couple years before I put down money for one. I prefer and I'm glad that they are still releasing games on actual media but I understand about the digital distribution of the older titles in regards to hardware compatibility.

For the longest time, I was strictly a must-own-media guy only as well but over the past year, I've taken to Steam (to a point). For example, I only purchase a game on massive discount (75% or so) and only if the price is below say $7.00 after that massive discount. I would not purchase a game digital only at full price unless it was only available digitally and was something I wanted to support with my dollars (I love me some indie games). Sticking with these rules, I like my Steam collection just fine. This past holiday sale, I managed to amass about a hundred games (the majority of which I don't play and are just in my backlog but that is another story) to my Steam account by sticking to my rules. To me the Steam interface is the least annoying of any of the other "game portals/launchers" out there.

After the fact, if I'm able to find that same game I bought on Steam available on disc for a discount, I wind up getting the game on disc as well if I'm really interested in it. Sometimes it works the other way around if it's cheap enough on Steam.

As for Playstation 4, there are quite a few franchises I'm looking forward to. I don't play many Japanese games and I've grown to dispise most JRPGs but being able to play the next Macross would be a small bonus and not necessarily a system seller in my own opinion. This is strictly speaking in consideration of my own preferences and tastes, of course.

Edited February 24, 2013 by xrentonx

[Keith]

The solution remains the same it has always been. Keep your PS3, problem solved!

[PetarB]

I must admit I do not understand the attraction of watching other people gaming. For me, it's all about the personal experience.

I've had my PS3 since launch. It's a beautiful piece of technology, but I was extremely upset by the gradual software updates that took away some of the functionality of the console.

One of the things that really annoyed me was that I have a large library of foreign DVDs purchased in the US and elsewhere. I am in Australia, and due to region-locking I cannot play these legitimately purchased disks on my PS3!

Region-locking DVD players is now actually illegal in Australia. HOWEVER, Sony get around this by categorising the imported PS3 as a gaming console, and therefore they do not have modify it to comply with Australian laws for DVDs. Now to watch my movie library I have to find a torrent of the same. It's absolutely crazy.

I will be watching the PS4 with great interest. But I don't think I will purchase it until it's clear what limitations it will come with.

[Beltane70]

I don't see why people are complaining about being able to see other people playing PS4 games or the other social abilities that the system will be able to do. It's not like you MUST or HAVE to use those features.

Like the PS2 and PS3, I probably won't buy the system until they release a game that I really want.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Beltane70

[Archer]

Am I really the only guy hear who is head over heels for titles like Killzone and InFamous? Haha, don't see those titles getting much love. I for one am very excited for the PS4, and I tend to be an early adopter regardless. Being at a Uni means unlimited internet, but I can see why people would get upset about streaming that. At the same time, you could just keep your old consoles like I did!

Also, I'm pretty glad they're adding remote play to the vita, will open up the vita to a lot more functionality.

[mikeszekely]

Am I really the only guy hear who is head over heels for titles like Killzone and InFamous? Haha, don't see those titles getting much love. I for one am very excited for the PS4, and I tend to be an early adopter regardless. Being at a Uni means unlimited internet, but I can see why people would get upset about streaming that. At the same time, you could just keep your old consoles like I did!

Also, I'm pretty glad they're adding remote play to the vita, will open up the vita to a lot more functionality.

I guess so.

Personally, I've already mentioned my dislike of Killzone. As for Infamous, it's not that I don't like the series... in fact, if I bought a PS4 this year, Infamous would probably be my first game. It's just that I never more than liked the series. It's not enough to sell me a system.

[Lupin The Third]

Except for the glaringly obvious, which is your example of GOG is completely irrelevant in this case. PC hardware != console hardware. PS2 emulation is dodgy at best, even on the top of the line hardware, and PS3 emulation isn't even a reality. So yes, the complaints about not being able to physically own these games--which you wouldn't be able to play on the PS4 otherwise--is rather short-sighted and silly (kinda like your use of sheeple).

Didn't say that PC hardware was the same as Console hardware. Honestly I'm not even sure why you are arguing with me. So far you haven't contradicted anything I've said, all of which was a response to GU-11's similar sentiments about digital. As to my "sheeple" comments...clearly those have struck a chord with you. People buying games off GOG aren't sheeple as they are actually buying games. People who are buying avatar items, people who buy apps that only work on their current phone (which they will drop and break in 2-3 months), people paying for "use rights", the guy who finally pays $50,000 for peter molyneux's "Curiosity" DLC...all those situations are Sheeple. If you find yourself offended by that, well, honestly...tough. It's really stupid to pay for digital content you can't preserve. But if it makes you happy...well I have some Soma for you to take your mind off such troubling matters as what happens to your real world money when you turn it into digital nothingness.

[xrentonx]

Am I really the only guy hear who is head over heels for titles like Killzone and InFamous? Haha, don't see those titles getting much love. I for one am very excited for the PS4, and I tend to be an early adopter regardless. Being at a Uni means unlimited internet, but I can see why people would get upset about streaming that. At the same time, you could just keep your old consoles like I did!

Also, I'm pretty glad they're adding remote play to the vita, will open up the vita to a lot more functionality.

Killzone is ok but I don't know much about Infamous. I'm more excited about Uncharted though

[Duke Togo]

Didn't say that PC hardware was the same as Console hardware. Honestly I'm not even sure why you are arguing with me. So far you haven't contradicted anything I've said, all of which was a response to GU-11's similar sentiments about digital. As to my "sheeple" comments...clearly those have struck a chord with you. People buying games off GOG aren't sheeple as they are actually buying games. People who are buying avatar items, people who buy apps that only work on their current phone (which they will drop and break in 2-3 months), people paying for "use rights", the guy who finally pays $50,000 for peter molyneux's "Curiosity" DLC...all those situations are Sheeple. If you find yourself offended by that, well, honestly...tough. It's really stupid to pay for digital content you can't preserve. But if it makes you happy...well I have some Soma for you to take your mind off such troubling matters as what happens to your real world money when you turn it into digital nothingness.

[Duke Togo]

Killzone is ok but I don't know much about Infamous. I'm more excited about Uncharted though

I feel like we already can guess what games we'll be seeing on this system. I just want to know how much it costs.

[Archer]

I'm dead certain now that FFVXIII will be square's launch title for this generation of consoles....which is kinda awkward since they announced it at launch of the previous generation of consoles....

[Duke Togo]

I'm dead certain now that FFVXIII will be square's launch title for this generation of consoles....which is kinda awkward since they announced it at launch of the previous generation of consoles....

VXIII?

[myk]

You CAN play steam games while offline. Going into setting and check the offline box. (After the initial game install of course, I used to do this all the time.)

Is that a new feature? I can remember moping about on Steam forums with other gamers about the issue. I really am out of touch with these sorts of things...

[TyrValein]

I feel like we already can guess what games we'll be seeing on this system. I just want to know how much it costs.

Well, considering Armored Core 4 only came out a month after PS3's release and we saw FROM SOFTWARE on their list of developers currently developing PS4 games, I'm hoping for Armored Core 6 in a timely fashion. Maybe a year after release or so. Yes, I know Verdict Day was just announced.

VXIII?

I think he means Final Fantasy Versus 13

[Duke Togo]

I think he means Final Fantasy Versus 13

I'm not sure how that would fly. It's a game developed for current-gen systems. Did Square not say they would be developing a FF for the new generation? Will probably be a few years before we see this new game.

[xrentonx]

Is that a new feature? I can remember moping about on Steam forums with other gamers about the issue. I really am out of touch with these sorts of things...

It's new in that they got it to work, I think

Not sure when it was introduced though.

[Mr March]

At the same time, you could just keep your old consoles like I did!

I can speak to this point. I know some of my friends and especially the younger generation coming up behind me have no interest at all in owning lots of "things", at least when it comes to movies, music, literature and video games. Being raised in the online world creates the mindset that everything is available online. So for many there is little reason to have your media physically. This is why most young people demand connectivity and speed. If everything they believe they want is on the internet, the only obstacle to everything they want is the means of access.

Most people also want consolidation and are tired of having so many pieces of hardware that do the same thing or feel redundant. I know young people don't want to hang onto a PS2, PS3 and PS4 to swap around hook ups when they want to use them. And frankly nowadays, neither do I. I'd like all my media consolidated into one box, personally on a computer. But my desktop PC feels likes it may be on the way out too

I know a lot of us old timers may not think like that (especially from the comments of those who want physical copies of everything). And I've heard all the reasons, from personal risk, lack of redundancy, backup, etc. But what we must understand is that paranoia doesn't exist in the younger generation, for good or ill. And for most of our generation and older who are still purchasing media, digital distribution has simply become a matter of convenience and a reality of modern distribution. Digital distribution isn't going away, it's physical media that is going away. If Sony wants to plan for the future, they have to face that reality and they are doing so with the Playstation 4 (at least partially).

This is why Sony with their the Playstation 4 has to cater to connectivity, digital media and other current market forces. However, there are other considerations as well that may cause problems for both Sony and Microsoft. Because consolidation is such a big deal, opportunities for a video game console have never been worse. In fact, all the major taditional game platforms (PC, console, portable) have a big challenge ahead competing with mobile gaming. Most simply game on their mobile phones or tablets. Also, most are no longer willing to buy more than one console, if they want to buy one at all. Consoles are too expensive to purchase more than one and a not insignificant portion of consumers won't purchase a console at all.

As it happens, this is why "Big Picture" from "Valve" might actually have a shot at dominating the home media center. To so many computer users, Steam already represents the pinnacle of digital distribution and consolidating your PC video games with your movies and music AND a video game console (via the Steambox), it's like a dream come true for the modern digital consumer. Everything consolidated, everything digital, everything accessible and all of it running on one box.

[Zor Primus]

*sits on the fence with a bag of popcorn*

Talk to you guys after E3

[xrentonx]

...until some bullshit like uplay or games for windows live fuc_ks it all up and forces you to install more bloated launchers just to play their games...sorry I'm being an old fogey

I like Steam fwiw

Edited February 25, 2013 by xrentonx

[Shaorin]

1. Then you don't get to play the older generations' games. I understand not everyone here is tech-savvy, but this is not a new issue with gaming consoles. Short of putting PS2 and PS3 processor chips in the new PS4, there is no way to play the games on the system. Adding these chips raises the price of the system significantly.

here's a novel concept; buy and use original PS1, PS2 and PS3 consoles and their related softs of your choice!!

a PS4 hitting market hardly means that the many examples of it's predecessor consoles available out there instantly stop working or anything.

myself, for instance, i'm one of those lucky/wise few that have been able retain every VG console i've ever owned, all the way back to the NINTENDO NES,

as well as favorite choice softs for all of them.

sure, it consumes shelf space, and is a minor bother to cycle in and out of my A/V system in comparison to Emulation for older consoles,

and backwards compatibility for PS editions, but the flexibility is unparalleled, and preventative maintenance

on optical disk-based VGCs goes a long way towards greatly extending their service life.

i'll likely be getting an Almighty PS4 like all the rest of you, but i'll be proud and comfortable in the assurance

that i wont ever be shooting myself in the foot by disposing of all my classic favorite consoles and related softs just to keep up with the technological joneses...

Edited February 25, 2013 by Shaorin

[PetarB]

I don't see why people are complaining about being able to see other people playing PS4 games or the other social abilities that the system will be able to do. It's not like you MUST or HAVE to use those features.

Like the PS2 and PS3, I probably won't buy the system until they release a game that I really want.

Adding functionality like this increases the cost of product development and deployment. I feel my money can be better spent elsewhere. I would rather have more storage, or more CPU power than development budgets spent on 'Sharing' tech.

[Duke Togo]

Adding functionality like this increases the cost of product development and deployment. I feel my money can be better spent elsewhere. I would rather have more storage, or more CPU power than development budgets spent on 'Sharing' tech.

I understand you guys aren't into this, but this is a rather large market they are going after. I'm not even sure I'd ever use it myself, but I understand why it's there.

[mikeszekely]

I understand you guys aren't into this, but this is a rather large market they are going after. I'm not even sure I'd ever use it myself, but I understand why it's there.

It's MacrossWorld. We just love to complain, even when it's about features driving up a price that hasn't been announced and streaming games when the alternative is not backwards compatibility at all.

[Duke Togo]

It's MacrossWorld. We just love to complain, even when it's about features driving up a price that hasn't been announced and streaming games when the alternative is not backwards compatibility at all.

I was a little surprised it couldn't play PSX games, but I guess if you are going to stream the other two systems, you might as well go all out (even if the hardware can easily do PSX emulation).

[aerocombatpilot]

... /Yawn ... wake me up when there is news of next gen Ace Combat.

Brother, I'm with you!!!!

Edited February 26, 2013 by aerocombatpilot

[Lupin The Third]

The PS4 so far is a huge disappointment.

1. Sorry...I don't want to stream games....here let me pay extra and use up my monthly 200gb of bandwidth through my service provider. I'm already using double what I'm supposed to.

2. Sony doesn't realize that the most boring thing in the world is watching someone else play a game. No I don't want to see your streamed videos of your play. Social aspects be damned.

3. I don't want a slimmed down counsel prone to overheating. Give me big with extra cooling capacity. Would love it if it were the size of my Denon Receivers.

4. No imcluded motion controlled gaming....not that I use it much myself but its great for the kiddies.

grrrrr

I always found it beyond amusing to see what a complete bunch of lying little hypocrites every member of the Japanese media, and Pro-Sony gaming community in Japan, turned out to be after every single one of them claimed that the original Xbox was insulting to Japanese gamers because it didn't respect the small size of their homes and was too big and that's why they hated it. Never mind that LD players were massively larger and that never hindered that format in Japan. Then the PS3 comes out, dwarfing the original Xbox, and all those same voices are totally silent.

I know a lot of us old timers may not think like that (especially from the comments of those who want physical copies of everything). And I've heard all the reasons, from personal risk, lack of redundancy, backup, etc. But what we must understand is that paranoia doesn't exist in the younger generation, for good or ill. And for most of our generation and older who are still purchasing media, digital distribution has simply become a matter of convenience and a reality of modern distribution. Digital distribution isn't going away, it's physical media that is going away. If Sony wants to plan for the future, they have to face that reality and they are doing so with the Playstation 4 (at least partially).

This is why Sony with their the Playstation 4 has to cater to connectivity, digital media and other current market forces. However, there are other considerations as well that may cause problems for both Sony and Microsoft. Because consolidation is such a big deal, opportunities for a video game console have never been worse. In fact, all the major taditional game platforms (PC, console, portable) have a big challenge ahead competing with mobile gaming. Most simply game on their mobile phones or tablets. Also, most are no longer willing to buy more than one console, if they want to buy one at all. Consoles are too expensive to purchase more than one and a not insignificant portion of consumers won't purchase a console at all.

As it happens, this is why "Big Picture" from "Valve" might actually have a shot at dominating the home media center. To so many computer users, Steam already represents the pinnacle of digital distribution and consolidating your PC video games with your movies and music AND a video game console (via the Steambox), it's like a dream come true for the modern digital consumer. Everything consolidated, everything digital, everything accessible and all of it running on one box.

I don't disagree that Digital will be the way of the future for most users. Doesn't mean that we can't still want to actually own what we pay for, even if in a archive-able digital version like Gog titles. I don't agree however that consoles are too expensive for people to buy more than one and the growth of the industry does contradict that claim. Especially when you look at the fact that these same pro-digital consumers will pay $400-600 every 12 months to buy a new iphone, for no reason whatsoever other than to have the new model. It's hard to believe that people can't/won't afford the cost of more than one game console that they will use for years to come and, presumably, not drop in the toilet and have to replace 3 months after they bought it.

here's a novel concept; buy and use original PS1, PS2 and PS3 consoles and their related softs of your choice!!

a PS4 hitting market hardly means that the many examples of it's predecessor consoles available out there instantly stop working or anything.

myself, for instance, i'm one of those lucky/wise few that have been able retain every VG console i've ever owned, all the way back to the NINTENDO NES,

as well as favorite choice softs for all of them.

sure, it consumes shelf space, and is a minor bother to cycle in and out of my A/V system in comparison to Emulation for older consoles,

and backwards compatibility for PS editions, but the flexibility is unparalleled, and preventative maintenance

on optical disk-based VGCs goes a long way towards greatly extending their service life.

i'll likely be getting an Almighty PS4 like all the rest of you, but i'll be proud and comfortable in the assurance

that i wont ever be shooting myself in the foot by disposing of all my classic favorite consoles and related softs just to keep up with the technological joneses...

Agreed. I do think the "OMG the PS4 iZ almost out. All you Old ConsoleZ are in the DumpsTErZ!" nonsense is a bunch of crap. I have retained every console I have owned since the PSX/Saturn and all of them still work; and I even went back and reacquired a couple of older platforms as well. In fact the only one I've had real problems with is the 360. I avoided all the disc read error days of the PS2 by buying the games I wanted and sitting on them until I picked up a couple units last year. Notice too that the NEWER machines are shittier made than the older consoles we are supposed to throw in the dumpster. But the new ones can stream your replays! OMG the FeatUREZ!!! Sadly this is the result of the "me" generation; all the braindead, nothingness-filled little drones who think that everyone and their grandmother wants to read every tweet, watch their webvids, and read their blog about how they had a huge turd today. I don't dispute that there is a market for catering to these folks; I'm just not a part of their crowd and never will be.

You are, of course, posting all of this from a computer running Mint Linux

(or perhaps even Windows 98). You'd never post from a machine running a

copy of Windows you couldn't install on another PC. And certainly you

are not posting from a Mac. You also have never purchased a movie on

Blu-ray that you own on DVD. And, of course, you have never purchased a

Blu or DVD that you already own on VHS. You also don't have cable or

satellite, since you don't own any of that content, and can't watch it

any time you want.

I can keep going if you like. "Sheeple," LOL. Nice, dude.

If you want to keep going we can, but why you chose to PM me this I'm not sure. I'd rather debate this in the forum or not at all.

I actually don't have cable or satellite; years back I lived in an area without cable and after doing so will never go back to having "boob-tube" content at the ready to waste my time and interests on.

I have plenty of films that I own on multiple formats, you realize that actually supports my points and not yours, right? I still have a ton of my old VHS collection, I find them fun to have displayed in my collection and there are some titles like some of the Streamline Pictures anime releases that were never available on LD/DVD and their dubs were FAR superior to the current crop of anime dubs (which is why a lot of studios have picked up the Streamline dubs to include on their own version of a title they later licensed). I still have my entire LD collection. I still have every DVD I have ever purchased. Notice that unlike paying to stream a movie on Xbox or PS I PERMANENTLY OWN all of these. Aside from damage or me not properly preserving them they are mine; they can never be removed from my possession via revocation of use rights by a digital content provider. Digital is nice, it's cool that you can watch stuff online. But that's apples to oranges when you try to compare digital to permanently archive-able, physical content. So again your point actually aids my arguments.

As to the OSes; l actually almost exclusively use Win XP still and the last couple laptops I bought I wiped the drives to remove Vista and installed XP. I have lost a lot of respect for MS in the last few years with what they are doing with their OSes and the sole laptop I have that is running Win 7 will be replaced with Linux when I have the chance (I am just now beginning to look into Linux based on a recommendation from a friend.) I see what you are getting at, OSes are "use rights", or at least they are in the last few years. This is kind of a disingenuous argument on your part as most people only need to install an OS once, or it comes preloaded. Really not the same as a game that you SHOULD be able to own forever if you so wish. And you can simply not play ball with M$'s new totalitarian licensing structure with things like Linux. As to your Mac comments I owned a G3 and will never touch a Mac again. They really are machines made for idiots who need big pretty buttons on their screen, and like to pay $100 a year for a new OS which is actually all the updates that they should have been receiving for free all year long. Also I only used iTunes once, downloaded a single Album (ES Posthumous' first album) discovered that, at that time, you couldn't do anything with it aside from use the iTunes player and furiously uninstalled that piece of crap and will never buy anything that Apple makes ever again.

So yes, in response to your implications, some of us actually do talk the talk and walk the walk. If you love digital so much, as you seem to, why do you care? Go on your way and leave us silly collectors alone. When you look back in 20 years and wonder where the tens of thousands of dollars you spent on games/movies/tv went with nothing to show, while I have a collection that has accrued in value, you can look back on this and remember how right you were at the time about how wonderful use-rights digital content really is.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Lupin The Third

[xrentonx]

I can see where this is going

[azrael]

As the saying goes, what happens on in PM, stays in PM.

Now should this thread lower itself into flame bait, then we can always lock it and we can ban some parties. Got it? Good.

[Jefuemon]

NMA.TV weighs in. Accurate, as usual:

[Mr March]

I don't disagree that Digital will be the way of the future for most users. Doesn't mean that we can't still want to actually own what we pay for, even if in a archive-able digital version like Gog titles. I don't agree however that consoles are too expensive for people to buy more than one and the growth of the industry does contradict that claim. Especially when you look at the fact that these same pro-digital consumers will pay $400-600 every 12 months to buy a new iphone, for no reason whatsoever other than to have the new model. It's hard to believe that people can't/won't afford the cost of more than one game console that they will use for years to come and, presumably, not drop in the toilet and have to replace 3 months after they bought it.

But that is exactly the point; more consumers are spending their money on other hardware, not video game consoles. That same expendable income is being spent toward a high end phone or tablet. Casual gaming by the average non-gamer is what's growing. Like it or not, casual and mobile gaming is impacting the traditional platforms and not just on the consumer side. More and more new game developers that would have traditionally made PC or console games now design easier and cheaper mobile games instead that offer new opportunities to change the way we play games. Sony knows this, which is why their new console is being designed for social media, sharing and mobility like a smart phone or tablet. It's also why an indie game developer was front and center in Sony's Playstation 4 announcement.

Now this isn't to say there's no big money to be made in console gaming, but the days of the PC or console being the only way to play video games are long over. And that's going to impact Sony and Microsoft in a BIG way as they make a play for the next generation market. Much has changed in the video game landscape in the 7 years since the last new Sony/Microsoft console was released. This year we're going to find out just how much that change will impact traditional gaming. My guess is the impact is going to be huge

[pfunk]

I dont thing you will be getting spare controllers for 45 bucks anymore,,,, touch screen?, why?

If the graphics are not on par with a PC gamer, then I think I might make the switch to PC and use the ol mouse keyboard or xbox controller