Supervision Army 30 years later.

[dakedo]

They really should do a Prequel about the Zentradi vs the SA war. I would buy the OVA.

Then again I would buy anything with a Macross name on it hehe.

I would love to see how the Zentradis would live a day on their lifes before getting in touch with us.

Can you imagine one of them waking up, inside a dark room where walls are all like green and kind of alive. Pretty much how they are rendered in DYRL.

Then getting breakfast, can you imagine what they eat. some sort of insipid black fruit or some repulsive goo. Then they would talk about war tactics, and how many SA encounters they have had, how they fear to grow older as their bodies will start growing odd hand like extremities, like Exsedol has, and maybe they then become greener as the older they get hahaha.

HOw they can not wait to get into their Battle Suits to kick some SA butts.

I dont know, so many things so interesting still to know about the Zentradis, or the Supervision Army fellows for that matter. The SA as people have said before, fellows that regained consciousness after being controlled by the Protodelvin, running across the Galaxy to save their lifes, maybe they exist in fewer numbers, but their spaceships and weapons are vastly superior. An entirely new set of battle suits and spaceships to know about...

Sorry just talking out loud.

[Kaldar5]

... how they fear to grow older as their bodies will start growing odd hand like extremities, like Exsedol has, and maybe they then become greener as the older they get hahah

I always thought that Exsedol's teeny tentacle hands were a bio implant (replacement or traded hands for them?), like his cranial enhancements in DYRL, so he could do detail work. Might need hands that small to fix things since he can't micronize in DYRL/Mac7 (evidently due to age/implants)

Since only Zentran ships have the green regenerating bio armor, and only Zentran are at times green; and nobody else ever bothered to adopt the technology....

I wondered if it was a side effect of long term exposure to the living ship hull. An "undesirable side effect" as particles of the hull become airborne over the years and infest/discolor skin.

Most of the ground troops (random dudes, Kamjin) don't have green skin. Perhaps they get out enough to avoid the effects and/or haven't been exposed as long as Britai & Exsedol?

[sketchley]

I always thought that Exsedol's teeny tentacle hands were a bio implant (replacement or traded hands for them?), like his cranial enhancements in DYRL, so he could do detail work. Might need hands that small to fix things since he can't micronize in DYRL/Mac7 (evidently due to age/implants)

Since only Zentran ships have the green regenerating bio armor, and only Zentran are at times green; and nobody else ever bothered to adopt the technology....

I wondered if it was a side effect of long term exposure to the living ship hull. An "undesirable side effect" as particles of the hull become airborne over the years and infest/discolor skin.

Most of the ground troops (random dudes, Kamjin) don't have green skin. Perhaps they get out enough to avoid the effects and/or haven't been exposed as long as Britai & Exsedol?

Interesting theories. Alas, if I understand things correctly, the Zentraadi ships do not have bio-regenerating armour... (movie version mobile fortress is something else altogether)

Nevertheless, I think the bio-implant theory has merit, as the Zentraadi have that technology (Buritai, Bodoru), and the tentacles are the same as Bodoru's hands (albeit at a much smaller scale).

Though, if memory serves, the creepy explanation is that it's a kind of hair that can be controlled by one's thoughts - apparently 1/4 of all Zentraadi have that creepy hair in one form or another (like Ranka).

[Pterobat]

I'm integrated into society, I'm even full blood human, but if Ranka flew down on a plane and started a concert, I would likely have a nose bleed, freak out, or faint. True story.

We really can't help that pure Zendradi are clones. Even humans participated in cloning after Space war I to help restore the population as canon.

Eh, but I don't think, in that case, it was just, "Ranka is so moe/sexy everybody would like her!" Along with the clones, it just seemed like a way to do a reference to the original series without much of what made that stuff work before. It's justifiable by the tiniest hair through the use of canon, but it doesn't make it any less lazy from a storytelling standpoint.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Zentradi fanboyism of SDFM, but it doesn't work in "Fastest Delivery".

As to the backstory of the Macross universe, I think we get enough to get by. The stories are about the present and the future, rather than the past that got them there. The Protoculture, in particular, seems more intriguing if they are left mysterious.

[TehPW]

I disagree. For the Anima Spiritia forces to get close to the PD, they had waves of SA forces to get through first. How does one do that? Disable them like Basara did to the Varuata pilots in M7. If the mind control could not be broken then Basara would not have been able to do it either. He was the first to be found to possess the Anima Spritia ability in over half a million years. If he could do it, it is not so far fetched to extrapolate that it was done before and perhaps on a larger scale, since we know that there were Anima Spiritia soldiers (= plural).

From a purely tactical point of view, if a PC general discovers their AS soldier have the ability to break the PD mind control, of course they will exploit that. How better to get close enough to capture and imprison the PD than to have their own army turn against them? How much more impossible would it be to try to segregate the PD from their forces to imprison them if the mind control was unbreakable? Your statement would suppose that the PD somehow forgot how to permanently control the minds of their subjects.

The Galaxy is a very big place and humanity is coming from "the outskirts" as it were. It is possible that the Megaroad 01 encountered the SA or an SA, Zentradi battle. There has never been a reason to include the SA in a Macross story so where they are and what they are doing other than fighting Zentradi somewhere in the galaxy is all we've been given so far.

i would think it would be ironic to have Megaroad-01 (or decendants) return to earth, with violent intent, not unlike how The Clans were introduced to Battletech...

[Kaldar5]

Eh, but I don't think, in that case, it was just, "Ranka is so moe/sexy everybody would like her!" Along with the clones, it just seemed like a way to do a reference to the original series without much of what made that stuff work before. It's justifiable by the tiniest hair through the use of canon, but it doesn't make it any less lazy from a storytelling standpoint.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Zentradi fanboyism of SDFM, but it doesn't work in "Fastest Delivery".

As to the backstory of the Macross universe, I think we get enough to get by. The stories are about the present and the future, rather than the past that got them there. The Protoculture, in particular, seems more intriguing if they are left mysterious.

Absolutely true, but the anger of the 33rd Zentran marine battalion common soldier was specifically "No entertainment and long station duty". Kamjin #___ just used that to get a mob working for him.

They weren't yakk decultured, enchanted, or hit with song energy beams. They just got some entertainment so they weren't pissed off to the point of rioting because they thought the UN government didn't give a crap. The riot wouldn't have even happened if Sheryl actually did her concert.

But yeah, dancing Quedlaans, nosebleeds, and hearts in eyes was a bit much

[sketchley]

They weren't yakk decultured, enchanted, or hit with song energy beams. They just got some entertainment so they weren't pissed off to the point of rioting because they thought the UN government didn't give a crap.

If they had framed the scene as that (this is a bunch of OFF DUTY soldiers getting some R&R, then I would've bought into it. As it is, it's a mess...

[Gubaba]

In my mind there's no such thing as Protodevlins, planet zola, spiritia, vajra love songs or nekki basara in the macross universe.

You're missin' out, Dude...

[Renato]

In my mind there's no such thing as Protodevlins, planet zola, spiritia, vajra love songs or nekki basara in the macross universe.

Nor entertainment, apparently.

[s001]

As much as we want to we can't wish these things away...

Yeah. Paraphrasing The Killers: 'This is the macrossworld that we live in'.

[Cabbit Commando]

What is "Known" by us fanboys has already been stated & all we have is speculation. The United Forces & the Zentraadi forces know alot more, but because that info hasn't been important to the later series it never comes up. Sort of like in Hogans Heros, we know the Imperial Japanese are at war with the allies, but they never apear in the series so they are never explained in detail.

Speculation Time!

If I recall correctly, it has been stated/inferred that there are 1000-2000 or so fleets the size of Bodol Zer's fleet cruiseing the galaxy. How big is the Supervision Army? Similar size? Smaller? Larger?

There is still a HUGE amount of empty space in the galaxy to hide in. However it is stated that Millia has fought in many battles, presumably against the Supervision Army. So at least some form of them is carrying on the fight regularly.

If at least some part of the Supervision Army was made up of Zentraadi then it would make some sense that they have Factory Satelites of their own that produce lage numbers of clones, mecha & ships. For all we know maybe they use the same designs as the Zentraadi. On the other hand, the Varuta used modified VFs & all new ship designs for their forces after they took over the Macross 13 & 5 fleets. Maybe when the ProtoDevlin took over some Zentraadi they used different ship designs (The SDF-1's original look as a SA gunship for example. It is flat out stated as a Supervision Army ship & not a Zentraadi ship of some kind.)

When the Macross 7 fleet encounters the Varuta they never say "Oh look! Supervision Army ships!" so I would guess that the Supervision Army doesn't use those designs.

What ever happened, I don't think the Supervision Army of "today" has any culture like the Protoculture had or Earth has. If they had then I sure in the last 500,000 cycles they would have noticed Zentrans & Meltrans feeling funny when they hear music or see males & females together. I would think that that would indicate that the Supervision Army, at least in this part of the galaxy, are Zentraadi like, having no culture.

On a side note, in the flavor text for the Glaug Officer Pod it states that a massed force of the Supervision Army waged a campaign to destroy the one Factory Satelite that produced the Glaugs.

In regards to the Gallia 4 Zentraadi acting all SDFM about Ranka & Sheryl. Maybe they are recent "Converts" to culture. As I said earlier there are many other Zentraadi fleets running around. Also, a sizable number of Zentraadi from Bodol Zer's fleet fled after he blew up. A small piece of that fleet would still numbers in the 10s if not 100s of thousands. While they are leaderless they are still prowling around.

[getfresh]

The thing that everyone forgot is that they have fought the supervision army. The current Macross universe is based off of the movie DYRL not the original TV show. By that the Meltrandi are the supervision army since it is explained that the male Zentradi are one side of the warring factions of the Protoculture and the Meltrandi represent the opposing side.

In the original show all that was said is that the supervision army was the opposing Protoculture's faction. In the original show the Zentradi was made up of separated males and females. However, in the movie they made it so that the males and the females made up the two separate armies altogether thus creating Zentran and Meltran armies i.e. Zentradi and Supervision Army.

All the name "Supervision Army" was meant to convay was an opposing force to the Zentradi, nothing more.

The lose of contact with Megaroad-1 was also never meant as they died in some terrible fate or something. Why Megaroad-1 was "lost" is because they will never do a show about it due to the fact that the voice actor for Hikaru Ichijo commit suicide in the 1990's and there after they will not do any new stories which contain his character out of respect for his sad death.

The center of the galaxy has yet to be reached so the possibility of finding the Protoculture is still there. That is what I think the next series would be about. In all the series they make guesses about the Protocuture being wiped out but no one knows for sure. The Protoculture seeded many planets with bases that hid themselves when the Protoculture had to run away to avoid war or enemies so that they could return one day. So it is possible that they have returned to their original home and just decided to hell with running around trying to control the galaxy.

Just my thoughts on it.

[Mr March]

That actually makes a lot of sense. We also see the encountering of Meltrandi fleets (like in the Macross 7 PLUS episodes) which would certainly support such an interpretation. Not that it really matters all that much, since the SA was only every a basic plot point and never anything more. Backstory needed to make the fictional construct of the Macross universe work and not much else.

[sketchley]

Your post is well thought out, but it starts falling apart about here:

Why Megaroad-1 was "lost" is because they will never do a show about it due to the fact that the voice actor for Hikaru Ichijo commit suicide in the 1990's and there after they will not do any new stories which contain his character out of respect for his sad death.

Ichijo is appearing in Macross 30, with new lines and animation. Not to mention the other appearances or even that the in-universe disappearance of the Megaroad 01 happened years before his untimely death.

The real reason is that the creators of Macross gave those characters' their proverbial walk into the sunset. Nothing more than that their stories had finished being told.

Edited February 8, 2013 by sketchley

[Beltane70]

The lose of contact with Megaroad-1 was also never meant as they died in

some terrible fate or something. Why Megaroad-1 was "lost" is because

they will never do a show about it due to the fact that the voice actor

for Hikaru Ichijo commit suicide in the 1990's and there after they will

not do any new stories which contain his character out of respect for

his sad death.

Why do people continue to post this strange rumor as fact? The original voice actor for Bright Noa in Gundam died in 2006 and all of the shows that the actor played characters in replaced him with new actors to fill his spot. The current Gundam OVA, Gundam Unicorn has Bright Noa as a major character, so I don't see why they'd refuse to use Hikaru in any new Macross projects if they wished to just because the original voice actor in no longer living.

[Cabbit Commando]

The point about the DYRL making the Meltran the Supervision Army isn't hard fact. With Macross we have Schrödinger's Continuity. SDFM & DYRL are both valid possibilities with any given show until the writers decide which they want to use. In Macross 7 for the Space War 1 celebration they used both SDFM & DYRL designs.

While they have generally used DYRL for the design asthetics, I don't recall them saying that they were using the story line in place of SDFM's.

If I recall correctly the conceit of the Macross series is that we are watching the TV show dramatizations of the Macross universe. If we compare it to War/action movies, SDFM=The Rat Patrol, Macross Plus=Top Gun, Macross 7=Hogan's Heros, Macross Zero=Made for SyFy original movie were American GIs fight Nazi Zombies, Macross Frontier=Black Sheep Squadron.

From these you can gather that there was a WWII, they fought Germans, Japanese & Italians, They fought in Europe & the Pacific. But any useful historical info is suspect.

So, I supose the idea that the Meltrans are the Supervision Army is one possibility.

[Bri]

Schrödinger's Continuity...Very apt description of Macross continuity, nice find.

[dakedo]

LOL

+1

Schrödinger's Continuity.

[Valkyrie addict]

Meltrandi as the Supervision Army isn't all the plausible, the Meltrandi ships seen in DYRL have no resemblance whatsoever to the SDF-1. And as many things that make no sense in DYRL unless you know the SDFM story, why would the Meltrandi search, find and attack the SDF-1 on Earth instead of engaging the larger Zentradi fleet after the SDF-1.

Kawamori has stated many times that the true story of Macross lies between SDFM and DYRL, which pretty much means, they can use whatever source material from the two for later series as canon without affecting continuity.

Supposedly the voice actor of Hikaru was a very close friend of Kawamori and finding a replacement voice actor was a difficult void to fill. But as stated before, the original love triangle story of Misa, Hikaru and Minmei has been told and has no need to be revisited.

[VF-15 Banshee]

Meltrandi as the Supervision Army isn't all the plausible, the Meltrandi ships seen in DYRL have no resemblance whatsoever to the SDF-1.

You were saying?

[Agent ONE]

If you watch DYRL in freeze frame, you can see other Meltrandi ships that are the same as the Macross.

[Valkyrie addict]

HAHA, oh wow, I stand corrected, you guys are hardcore, my humble apologies, I never noticed those before.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Valkyrie addict

[Agent ONE]

HAHA, oh wow, I stand corrected, you guys are hardcore, my humble apologies, I never noticed those before.

I think we all thought the same till we watched in in stop motion. First time I saw DYRL it was a horribly dubbed and HORRIBLY edited version on VHS tape. I wondered the same thing.

[VF-15 Banshee]

The Macross Mecha Manual is an awesome thing (shameless plug).

[getfresh]

Why do people continue to post this strange rumor as fact? The original voice actor for Bright Noa in Gundam died in 2006 and all of the shows that the actor played characters in replaced him with new actors to fill his spot. The current Gundam OVA, Gundam Unicorn has Bright Noa as a major character, so I don't see why they'd refuse to use Hikaru in any new Macross projects if they wished to just because the original voice actor in no longer living.

Because he commit suicide. He didn't just die, his death was tragic and a shock to the studio. After the Show ended they had continued on making cd dramas for the content however upon his death they decided they did not wish to continue that arc any further. And rehashing hikaru is ok if it is using the same VA's lines and dialogue, however they have created no new dialogue for him. It is all just rehash. In cases where the actor dies naturally the japanese are ok with replacing him, it is just when it is in bad taste to them culturally that they will not. If you study the japan culture you will understand why they choose not to go and replace his VA.

And as VF-15 so nicely showed you in his picture the meltrandi ships look alot like the sdf-1's design. also their ships open their main cannons horizontally just like the sdf-1. The zentradi ships open their main cannons vertically. Watch the movie and you will see if you watch it closely. In closing, to repeat, all arcs after DYRL use the DYRL universe, not the universe fro SDF Macross.

Edited February 11, 2013 by getfresh

[Renato]

Because he commit suicide. He didn't just die, his death was tragic and a shock to the studio. After the Show ended they had continued on making cd dramas for the content however upon his death they decided they did not wish to continue that arc any further. And rehashing hikaru is ok if it is using the same VA's lines and dialogue, however they have created no new dialogue for him. It is all just rehash. In cases where the actor dies naturally the japanese are ok with replacing him, it is just when it is in bad taste to them culturally that they will not. If you study the japan culture you will understand why they choose not to go and replace his VA.

They have already replaced him. Hikaru has had a new actor with new dialogue in the PS2 game, in all the PSP games, and he has tons of new dialogue in the new PS3 game "Macross 30" out later this month. The only times they rehashed old dialogue recordings by Arihiro Hase were in the PS1 DYRL game, and the recent DYRL Hybrid Disc "My Boyfriend is a Pilot 2012" game.

[Gubaba]

Because he commit suicide. He didn't just die, his death was tragic and a shock to the studio. After the Show ended they had continued on making cd dramas for the content however upon his death they decided they did not wish to continue that arc any further. And rehashing hikaru is ok if it is using the same VA's lines and dialogue, however they have created no new dialogue for him. It is all just rehash. In cases where the actor dies naturally the japanese are ok with replacing him, it is just when it is in bad taste to them culturally that they will not. If you study the japan culture you will understand why they choose not to go and replace his VA.

And as VF-15 so nicely showed you in his picture the meltrandi ships look alot like the sdf-1's design. also their ships open their main cannons horizontally just like the sdf-1. The zentradi ships open their main cannons vertically. Watch the movie and you will see if you watch it closely. In closing, to repeat, all arcs after DYRL use the DYRL universe, not the universe fro SDF Macross.

They use both the TV show and DYRL. Officially, the TV show is "canon" and DYRL is a propaganda movie made in 2031. But some designs are recycled from DYRL (Exsedol in 7, the Macross in Plus, Hikaru's VF-1A in Frontier) and some are from the TV show (Milia's flight suit and VF-1J in 7, the Zentradi uniforms in Frontier).

[Mr March]

getfresh, we've seen how subsequent Macross series have not adhered strictly to one version over the other but have used character/story/design elements from both SDF Macross or DYRL?. The topic of continuity contradictions is a subject that has been raised many times by many different Macross fans and there has been no way to reconcile it by stating characters/events/designs in Macross sequels are uniformly following series continuity or film continuity. We Macross fans must simply accept that Shoji Kawamori and the Macross creative teams will use preferred elements from both SDF Macross or DYRL? while disregarding any continuity problems that may arise from merging series/film elements.

The Macross Mecha Manual is an awesome thing (shameless plug).

Why, thank you

[Keith]

They use both the TV show and DYRL. Officially, the TV show is "canon" and DYRL is a propaganda movie made in 2031. But some designs are recycled from DYRL (Exsedol in 7, the Macross in Plus, Hikaru's VF-1A in Frontier) and some are from the TV show (Milia's flight suit and VF-1J in 7, the Zentradi uniforms in Frontier).

Actually, nothing was "recycled," you're just ignoring the bigger ramifications of DYRL being an in universe movie.

-Exedor had himself re-Macronized and upgraded.

-DYRL used a later block of VF-1 for its filming.

-Milia's flight suit is actually closer in color scheme to Hikaru's than her original one.

-Much like the VF-1's, Zentradi seem to have been produced in "blocks," not surprising or out of character considering the long production run the Protoculture gave them. In the TV series it could be assumed that the Bodolza fleet is actually a very "old" fleet, used an earlier design command ship, etc. The Meltran that were present in the fleet would have to have been cobbled in during the Protodevelin / Supervision Army conflict, and were issued custom male cruisers, but maintained use of Quadran Rau's. At various points between 2012-2031, "newer" Zentradi / Meltrandi fleets were encountered (such as the Chlore fleet), with later issue ships and weapons. DYRL used exclusively later issue designs from the UN Spacy, Zentradi, & Meltrandi to keep things simple and contemporary to 2031. At least that's how I like to view it.

[Kelsain]

Keith, are you saying that M7 is the most canonically pure segment of the Macross franchise?

Hmmm, it is the only one who's narrative wasn't muddied by movie editions...

Seriously, your descriptions work for me. We even saw both zentran armor styles on Gallia4. Maybe the updated armor in The First is really floating out there too.

[Gubaba]

Actually, nothing was "recycled," you're just ignoring the bigger ramifications of DYRL being an in universe movie.

-Exedor had himself re-Macronized and upgraded.

-DYRL used a later block of VF-1 for its filming.

-Milia's flight suit is actually closer in color scheme to Hikaru's than her original one.

-Much like the VF-1's, Zentradi seem to have been produced in "blocks," not surprising or out of character considering the long production run the Protoculture gave them. In the TV series it could be assumed that the Bodolza fleet is actually a very "old" fleet, used an earlier design command ship, etc. The Meltran that were present in the fleet would have to have been cobbled in during the Protodevelin / Supervision Army conflict, and were issued custom male cruisers, but maintained use of Quadran Rau's. At various points between 2012-2031, "newer" Zentradi / Meltrandi fleets were encountered (such as the Chlore fleet), with later issue ships and weapons. DYRL used exclusively later issue designs from the UN Spacy, Zentradi, & Meltrandi to keep things simple and contemporary to 2031. At least that's how I like to view it.

I didn't mention any of that because it wasn't really part of my point. Getfresh says that all the sequels are based on "the DYRL universe," which simply isn't the case. The TV show is canonical, but all the sequels DO use designs that were first showcased in DYRL. However, that also use designs from SDFM TV. That there's an in-universe explanation for all this is nice (even if I find it a little far-fetched), but it has nothing to do with the fact that Getfresh's statement is incorrect.

[Kaldar5]

It's a show that has been made over 30 years.

There are continuity errors.

Proceed to get over it. Doctor Who communities would laugh if they saw these arguments.
The whitewashing and elaborate justifications are fun to talk about, cute and make us feel good, but it's quite obvious that is exactly what they are. Even when it's from the mouth of 'god' S.K.

[shdwfx2000]

So using Cabbit Commando's example of war movies and Macross,

what if a hardened Supervision fleet intends to attack Earth or Eden. The army retreated looking for factory satellites/other remnants/cloning facilities whichever. They found enough resources to be a serious threat. Hell, you could even have Protodelvin in there but have lost there need for spirita somehow. Like they traded all their cheesy invulnerable super powers to sate there hunger. Hell I don't know. Just make them a little more serious and less furry/godlike. Like they took notes from Gary Oldman's performance of Dracula. You could have some larger types that they keep around to use like the trolls in Lord of the Rings, heavy tanks (but you can kill them) and I guess you can keep the females uniforms with the breast pasty things. Kind of sexy evil vampire elf chicks. I digress. Maybe they are simply looking for the Macross based on the last Supervision transponder signal before we tee-tiny Earthlings rebuilt(broke) the SDF-1(broke the transponder that is, reverse engineering is a bitch). I always got the feeling that the Macross was supposed to be special in someway besides crashing here, so maybe it is.

The SMS/UNS intercepts signals/warning of a planned attack and the expeditionary/colony fleets send their Quarter/Macross class ships to protect "the motherland". They start getting the crap kicked out of them. The big baddie starts talking smack just as he is about to do whatever big baddies do. Glass Earth/Eden, break dance on the moon. you know. What ever they fancy. Right about that point Hikaru/Misa busts in. Pin-point super-long range de-folding having been perfected on the Megaroad. They bring a ton of new and retro designs of valkyries (to fuel Bandai and their funding for the movie) and destroids (hey, they need love too). Have Aegis Fokker/Komilia and Isamu's old asses having assembled periphery colonies valkyries so we can bring in ALL the old designs and tie in the dozen game characters out there with no love. I love it when a frachise ties up all their loose ends and connects everything. The OVA would fuel another decades worth of toys. We would get more singing (if thats your thing) and lots of explosions.

So, it would be "Tora,Tora,Tora" and "Midway" in movie parallels.

it might sound stupid. but i'd watch it.

[dakedo]

You were saying?

I am sorry but do anyone knows extacly at what time does this ship appear in DYRL? I saw it yesterday (1080p), and I wasnt able to catch it.

Edited February 12, 2013 by dakedo

[shdwfx2000]

According to the Macross Mech Manual site, it was never animated. During the final fight though, you can see all the other Meltrandi ships blowing the hell out of stuff and likewise being blown the hell up. Tne Meltrandi gunboat you see used to great effect mostly, and I suppose this is the next size up?

Edited February 12, 2013 by shdwfx2000