Star Wars VII - The Force Awakens, on BluRay and Dvd April 5th, 2016

[Mommar]

Lost the will to live? Oh hell no, Palpatine killed Padme through the darkside! I'm responding late here, but I'm for an Abrams film, though I think J. Michael Stracynski would fit the franchise better, he doesn't currently have the clout.

Out of all the directors I could think of I never even considered him, but I think you're right that he would be a much better fit.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Mommar

[sketchley]

Of couse, I could write ridiculously long posts about what I'd tweak about those first two prequels.

Hey, maybe if the first film didn't have Jar-Jar Bi..........ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Jar-jar isn't the problem. At best, the character was an experiment. In general, the character is a distraction, just like the fancy CG visual effects and fight choreography.

Distraction from what? The bad writing.

[GU-11]

Mog: Of couse, I could write ridiculously long posts about what I'd tweak about those first two prequels.

You should try that; it's actually quite therapeutic.

NOTE: There's something wrong with the word proccessor lately. I can't edit quotes properly.

Edited January 31, 2013 by GU-11

[Chronocidal]

This raises a big gaping plot hole in Eps III: in Eps. VI, Leiah says something along the lines of having memories of her mother. I interpret that as something along the lines of having spent a couple of years with her mother (even if she was only a toddler). Definitely not something retained from the extremely short, immediately post-childbirth time she spent as depicted in SW III - something that Luke has in common (and makes one wonder why he doesn't remember the EXACT SAME THING).

Neither of them actually remembered their real mother. Luke grew up with his aunt and uncle so he already knew his parents were gone, but Leia didn't learn she was adopted until Luke brought it up at that point.

Bail Organa's wife was supposed to have died a few years after they adopted her, so that's who Leia was thinking of.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Chronocidal

[eugimon]

Neither of them actually remembered their real mother. Luke grew up with his aunt and uncle so he already knew his parents were gone, but Leia didn't learn she was adopted until Luke brought it up at that point.

Bail Organa's wife was supposed to have died a few years after they adopted her, so that's who Leia was thinking of.

why would luke care about leia's memories of her adoptive mother? At that point, luke already knows that he and leia are twins.

[Knight26]

 

why would luke care about leia's memories of her adoptive mother? At that point, luke already knows that he and leia are twins.

 

One of the reasons, amongst many, why I say that the whole franchise needs a reboot, starting with Ep 1 and moving forward. It needs to eb written in such a way too that the big reveals in 5 and 6 regarding family and paternity are still surpises, at least the reveal at the end of 5.

[Chronocidal]

You have to remember how little they both knew about their parents. Neither of them knew when (or even if to some extent), their actual mother died, but Leia thought she did. For all Luke knew, she could have been their real mother, with Luke being separated from them before he got to know her.

If she hadn't died when Leia was still young, she may have eventually revealed to her that she was adopted, but it looks like she never learned that from her parents. Given her status in the Senate, the less she knew the better, so they may have never intended to tell her at all.

[Dobber]

Neither of them actually remembered their real mother. Luke grew up with his aunt and uncle so he already knew his parents were gone, but Leia didn't learn she was adopted until Luke brought it up at that point.

Bail Organa's wife was supposed to have died a few years after they adopted her, so that's who Leia was thinking of.

Sorry got to disagree with you there...Luke asks Leia "do you remember your mother, your REAL mother."

He makes a point of specifying exactly who he was referring to. Sounds like it was either common knowledge she was adopted or Leia told him at some point off camera. Otherwise why would Luke specify "real" mother.

Chris

Edited January 31, 2013 by Dobber

[eugimon]

You have to remember how little they both knew about their parents. Neither of them knew when (or even if to some extent), their actual mother died, but Leia thought she did. For all Luke knew, she could have been their real mother, with Luke being separated from them before he got to know her.

If she hadn't died when Leia was still young, she may have eventually revealed to her that she was adopted, but it looks like she never learned that from her parents. Given her status in the Senate, the less she knew the better, so they may have never intended to tell her at all.

I'm sorry, but you're totally misrepresenting that scene in order to make it work with the prequels. Luke knows that they're adopted, Luke is trying to get Leia to the point where she will accept that she and Luke are twins and that Vader is their father so that she will acknowledge that she too is a jedi and will continue the fight if Luke dies while confronting Vader.

Luke asks leia, "leia, do you remember your mother? Your *real* mother?" In this context, what does asking Leia to remember Breha Organa serve to accomplish?

[Chronocidal]

I guess what I'm thinking is that Luke was only told that they were separated and hidden as children. He doesn't know that Leia doesn't remember her real mother. Neither of them knows the circumstances of their birth, so he might be under the impression that Leia did know their real mother at some point.

I always thought Luke was just digging for hints about what his real mother was like from someone who he thought may have known her.

I see what you mean, though, as far as why Luke would ask her if she remembered her real mother, if she never knew she was adopted. I don't think it's a huge leap to think that Bail Organa remarried though, in which case she would have had a step mother, and probably still considered Breha her real mother.

But yeah, his goal in the whole thing was obviously trying to lead her to that conclusion. I've just never had trouble assuming she had always considered her adoptive parents as her real parents. Given they were trying to hide her, it would make sense to keep up the illusion.

I see why it's a stretch, but I guess my point is there are too many unknown factors to actually consider it a serious problem with the prequels. I can think of a few ways things could have worked for it to still make perfect sense, you just have to assume a bunch of things we never saw.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Chronocidal

[Dynaman]

You have to remember how little they both knew about their parents.

Actually, it is better to remember just how much Lucas knew about their parents. Which at this point was not enough.

[JetJockey]

Yes, I would have also preferred such an added scene. The emotional impact would be great for both Padme and Obi Wan, seeing him in his mask. Even Vader himself, watching his lover and his friend side-by-side, while he is encased in a breathing apparatus.

Darth Vader essentially becomes a chump in the prequels. I thought Vader was a bad ass and scary in the originals. Having him be Vader and look like Anakin and then not lead any Stormtroopers into battle other than that sad (as in poorly done) scene in the Jedi Temple was probably the second or third biggest mistake in Episode III.

If there's one thing Lucas got right, it was nipping all the potential Padme/Obi-Wan romance ideas and scenes out of the prequels. It would have weakened Anakin's primary motivation for turning to the dark side: preventing Padme's (and their child's) death.

I agree though that the whole "lost her will to live" thing was kinda dumb. There'd be a better connection to ROTJ if they faked Padme's death (died during childbirth) but hid her as a maid or nanny in the Organa household. Leia would see her (real) mommy, see her as always sad, and Luke would have no recollection of his real mother.

I think the most significant missteps in ROTS (which is easily the best of the prequels) were that and the whole Frankenstein's monster homage when Vader breaks out of his restraints (i.e., the NOOOOOOOOO!!!!1111!!!! scene).

Of couse, I could write ridiculously long posts about what I'd tweak about those first two prequels.

The whole turn to the dark side was handled poorly. I get what Lucas was thinking. That Anakin was "prepping" and did all this other stuff. But killing Jedi children (sorry younglings) is like killing yourself. There is no redemption for that sort of thing. A lot of people think Episode III is the best one. I tend to agree with Red Letter Media that it's just as bad if not the worst one.

Going by Return of the Jedi, originally my thinking was that Anakin was expelled from the Jedi or left with Padme. The Jedi asked him to come back to help fight the Sith. Anakin attempted to fight the Emperor alone. The Emperor was able to use his anger against him and turn him to the Dark Side. Just like Yoda's words to Luke warning him of the Emperor's powers. That there is more to him than lightsaber stuff. If you've ever been angry. Really angry to the point of snapping. That's when the Emperor could control you. It always bothered me how Luke tossed his lightsaber against the Emperor. But this is how I see it now as Luke's anger was boiling over.

Yoda never should have faught the Emperor by the way. He should have stayed on Dagobah to wait for Luke while trapping whatever Dark Force was on the planet.

Lost the will to live? Oh hell no, Palpatine killed Padme through the darkside!

I don't have as much of a problem with this even though it goes against the originals. Even though Padme is a strong woman, having the person you see as the most special person in the world. The guy you love. The person that gave you children. Not only turn to this Dark Side. Which is pretty much pure evil. To have him be a part of killing children and the political nonsense. And for him to attempt to kill you. To then know he's dead and you'll have to raise the children without him. That's enough to break a good person and lose the will to live.

Neither of them actually remembered their real mother. Luke grew up with his aunt and uncle so he already knew his parents were gone, but Leia didn't learn she was adopted until Luke brought it up at that point.

Bail Organa's wife was supposed to have died a few years after they adopted her, so that's who Leia was thinking of.

Sorry got to disagree with you there...Luke asks Leia "do you remember your mother, your REAL mother."

He makes a point of specifying exactly who he was referring to. Sounds like it was either common knowledge she was adopted or Leia told him at some point off camera. Otherwise why would Luke specify "real" mother.

Chris

Yeah, this is one of the obvious mess ups in the prequel to original trilogy. From what I've heard of the new Special Edition Blu-rays (I don't own them), Lucas tried to re-edit this scene. But it's still messed up that he tried to change this clear as day scene with Luke and Leia.

[GU-11]

JetJockey: Darth Vader essentially becomes a chump in the prequels. I thought Vader was a bad ass and scary in the originals. Having him be Vader and look like Anakin and then not lead any Stormtroopers into battle other than that sad (as in poorly done) scene in the Jedi Temple was probably the second or third biggest mistake in Episode III.

Chump is right. I've got a feeling that if each of us wrote a screenplay of what should have happened in the prequels and how Vader should have been portraayed, every single one would probably be better than what Lucas offered us.

Edited February 2, 2013 by GU-11

[taksraven]

Darth Vader essentially becomes a chump in the prequels. I thought Vader was a bad ass and scary in the originals. Having him be Vader and look like Anakin and then not lead any Stormtroopers into battle other than that sad (as in poorly done) scene in the Jedi Temple was probably the second or third biggest mistake in Episode III.

Yeah, I think that you are pretty close to one of the major flaws in the entire prequel trilogy.

It seems that Lucas was not mindful enough of the events in ANH when he finished the third prequel. When you contrast Anakin and Bens final encounter in Revenge of the Sith with their encounter in A New Hope, they highlight the incompatible nature of the two trilogies. With Revenge of the Sith in mind, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect Ben to have a more emotional or shocked reaction at the appearance of Anakin/Darth in A New Hope. I know that when they meet in A New Hope that they havent' seen each other in about two decades but you wouid still expect a more emotional reaction from at least one of them?

I don't know what Lucas could have done to avoid such a problem between the films. An encounter between Kenobi and Vader at the end of Revenge of the Sith, with Vader in full costume/cyborg form might have solved such problems. I;m not sure.

I do know that events at the end of the prequel trilogy did seem to be very rushed, which is weird since proper pacing across the entire trilogy would have avoided such problems.

Chump is right. I've got a feeling that if each of us wrote a screenplay of what should have happened in the prequels and how Vader should have been portraayed, every single one would probably be better than what Lucas offered us.

Nah, I think that we would *like* to think that, but I think writing good prequels is a mugs game and nearly impossible.

[GU-11]

Taksraven: Nah, I think that we would *like* to think that, but I think writing good prequels is a mugs game and nearly impossible.

Well, as long as we stay away from writing emo Vader, that's a definite improvement in my book.

[taksraven]

I don't know why we are bitching and moaning about the original and prequel trilogy here when this is supposed to be about episodes 7,8 and 9. Considering the fact that the first *six* films were the story of anakin skywalker/darth vader, where can they take it from there?

[Dobber]

Maybe Vaders legacy? Someone mentioned to me that they read somewhere that the Force Unleashed storyline would be a possibility. Now I completely took that as pure Internet/fan speculation with NO factual foundation.....BUT........the idea is kind of cool to me. Plus I like Sam Witwer (the actor that voiced and who the character was patterned after.)

Chris

Edited February 2, 2013 by Dobber

[Chewie]

I think it's safe to assume Ben put 2 and 2 together for Anakin being Vader in between 3 and 4.

His emotional attachment died with "Anakin" on Mustafar.

[taksraven]

Didn't Yoda say that once a Jedi strayed down the path of the Dark Side, they could never escape it, or something to that effect. ( I know that Vader kinda proved Yoda and Ben wrong by killing the Emperor) But still, Luke certainly dabbled with the Dark Side in his final confrontation with Vader. Maybe Luke should become the villain in the third trilogy.

[mechaninac]

Yoda and Ben were right, 'from a certain point of view'. Luke just proved that, as Yoda himself said, 'forever in motion the future is', and can be changed by one's actions, or innactions; he fill the role of the redeemer by absolving Vader of his sins and allowing him to regain his Anakin self before he dies. In his confrontation with Vader before the Emperor, Luke was certainly tempted by power his unleashed anger released, but he was not seduced by it, and in rejecting it, he overcame any chance Sidious had of turning him to the dark side. Therefore, I don't think he'd be a good candidate for the villain in the new trilogy.

Personally, I'd think it best to break free of the previous movies and just tell a whole new story that references what came before it but is not saddled by it... the better to avoid further continuity issues that are already so glaring between the original and the prequels

[Kanedas Bike]

Yoda and Ben were right, 'from a certain point of view'. Luke just proved that, as Yoda himself said, 'forever in motion the future is', and can be changed by one's actions, or innactions; he fill the role of the redeemer by absolving Vader of his sins and allowing him to regain his Anakin self before he dies. In his confrontation with Vader before the Emperor, Luke was certainly tempted by power his unleashed anger released, but he was not seduced by it, and in rejecting it, he overcame any chance Sidious had of turning him to the dark side. Therefore, I don't think he'd be a good candidate for the villain in the new trilogy.

Personally, I'd think it best to break free of the previous movies and just tell a whole new story that references what came before it but is not saddled by it... the better to avoid further continuity issues that are already so glaring between the original and the prequels

Agreed.

Plus a Bad Robot Droid.

-b.

Edited February 2, 2013 by Kanedas Bike

[JetJockey]

Yeah, I think that you are pretty close to one of the major flaws in the entire prequel trilogy.

It seems that Lucas was not mindful enough of the events in ANH when he finished the third prequel. When you contrast Anakin and Bens final encounter in Revenge of the Sith with their encounter in A New Hope, they highlight the incompatible nature of the two trilogies. With Revenge of the Sith in mind, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect Ben to have a more emotional or shocked reaction at the appearance of Anakin/Darth in A New Hope. I know that when they meet in A New Hope that they havent' seen each other in about two decades but you wouid still expect a more emotional reaction from at least one of them?

I don't know what Lucas could have done to avoid such a problem between the films. An encounter between Kenobi and Vader at the end of Revenge of the Sith, with Vader in full costume/cyborg form might have solved such problems. I;m not sure.

I do know that events at the end of the prequel trilogy did seem to be very rushed, which is weird since proper pacing across the entire trilogy would have avoided such problems.

Nah, I think that we would *like* to think that, but I think writing good prequels is a mugs game and nearly impossible.

Even Tron Legacy's one line from Flynn about Tron's new look was a better emotional reaction to a character's physical change than we received in Star Wars IV. I read a post once that someone said Episode III felt like a corporate movie. That they cut every corner to get the movie made and barely match the events of the OT. I tend to agree. It could and should have been a powerful moment in the Episode III when Obi-Wan sees what The Emperor did to Anakin to keep him alive. Especially since General Grevious was introduced in the story. To have Vader (in a scary moment) go after the Jedi and try to get Padme and the children. To have him use all that anger after what occurred and the large number of troops to kill the Jedi. All the elements of the story were in the original movies. George Lucas chose not to follow them. I believe after he finished Episode III he didn't even watch all the movies together. At least that's what he said in one interview. I wonder if he has yet? It wouldn't surprise me if he likes the prequels more than the originals.

I don't know why we are bitching and moaning about the original and prequel trilogy here when this is supposed to be about episodes 7,8 and 9. Considering the fact that the first *six* films were the story of anakin skywalker/darth vader, where can they take it from there?

Just as Abrams couldn't resist rebooting Star Trek with Kirk. I don't think he will be able to resist having a Star Wars movie without a member of the Skywalkers. I hope we get a kick ass female Skywalker Jedi lead this time around.

I think it's safe to assume Ben put 2 and 2 together for Anakin being Vader in between 3 and 4.

His emotional attachment died with "Anakin" on Mustafar.

Well, seeing the ghost of Obi-Wan and Anakin together at the end of Return of the Jedi would be against your theory of Obi-Wan's attachment dying.

I was thinking about that Padme lost the will to live scene again. I remembered a scene in the Star Trek Original TV show. At the end of one episode, Kirk is so distraught over the loss of a woman he loves that Spock has to use a Vulcan mind thing on him to make him forget. So this isn't so far fetched.

[renegadeleader1]

Didn't Yoda say that once a Jedi strayed down the path of the Dark Side, they could never escape it, or something to that effect. ( I know that Vader kinda proved Yoda and Ben wrong by killing the Emperor) But still, Luke certainly dabbled with the Dark Side in his final confrontation with Vader. Maybe Luke should become the villain in the third trilogy.

What Yoda said was: "Once you start down the dark path forever will it dominate your destiny." I take that to mean not that you can't escape it, but you will always carry the scars of it with you and pay a heavy price.

[Keith]

The impression I get from the whole series, which was touched more in the "Force User" arch of Clone Wars, was that the Jedi were just as wrong as the Sith in only focusing on "one side" of the Force. What Luke did was successfully complete something his father failed to do, i.e. find a balance between the Light & Dark sides of the Force.

[JELEINEN]

 

The impression I get from the whole series, which was touched more in the "Force User" arch of Clone Wars, was that the Jedi were just as wrong as the Sith in only focusing on "one side" of the Force. What Luke did was successfully complete something his father failed to do, i.e. find a balance between the Light & Dark sides of the Force.

While it doesn't come across so well in places, Lucas has specifically stated that the Force is not dualistic and there is no "light side." Balance was supposed to mean eliminating the Sith, but the choice of phrase muddies this.

[GU-11]

 

While it doesn't come across so well in places, Lucas has specifically stated that the Force is not dualistic and there is no "light side." Balance was supposed to mean eliminating the Sith, but the choice of phrase muddies this.

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, does it? Balance should mean equality on both sides. I can't see how having only the Jedi brings balance at all.

[JELEINEN]

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, does it? Balance should mean equality on both sides. I can't see how having only the Jedi brings balance at all.

Yeah. Like I said, that phrase is bad. Maybe if he'd gone with a synonym like "stability" it would have made more sense.

[GU-11]

I think bringing back "purity" to the Force would have been a much more suitable term than balance, seeing as how the Sith and the Dark Side are portrayed as corruptive elements.

[Keith]

I'm sticking with that thing I said, especially afted the Force users CW arc.

[taksraven]

Maybe Leia should turn to the Dark Side of the Force? THAT would be interesting.

[EXO]

was watching the 30 Rck Finale and I noticed a ship that looked like a cloud car. Guess it can't be exact or ABC can sue NBC.

[renegadeleader1]

That is a cloud car.

[Black Valkyrie]

I don't have a landing permit, I'm trying to reach Lando Calrissian.

[Mog]

I'm sticking with that thing I said, especially afted the Force users CW arc.

As much as I do enjoy the latest Clone Wars series, I absolutely despised that whole Force users arc. Nothing learned by any of the main characters (it was all just a dream ), stupid "superior" Force users who were just as petty and dumb as any typical Jedi or Sith, and characterizations for the Force users that changed from episode to episode just to fit the whims of the plot.

Let's just dump the whole Force users idea into that same bad idea hole we tossed the midichlorians into.

But I do enjoy the theory that the Chosen One Who Brings Balance to the Force was a misinterpreted prophecy. The Jedi think: "Yay! He's gonna wipe out the Sith!" But the reality is that, after ROTS, he wipes out most of the Jedi, leaving two Sith and two Jedi.* Thus, bringing balance to the Force.

* Yes, I'm aware that a handful of Jedi probably survived the Purge. But I'm sure we can also agree that there are probably a few darksiders hanging around the fringes. Heck, one or a few of those surviving Jedi probably even turned dark.

[renegadeleader1]

You know, this thread really has me thinking about where along the line did I just stop giving a F*** about Star Wars. Near as I can tell it was somewhere inbetween Anakin Solo(Leia and Han's kid) getting killed off in the novels under orders from Lucas because he was afraid people might get confused with another Anakin running around despite the books building him up to be the main hero at that point. Episode III driving home the point that Anakin is a emo punk ass b**** that gets manipulated by the promise from palpatine who even admits he can't do what he promised later only for Anakin to be okay with it. Or maybe it was Hayden Christensen being inserted into the end of Return of the Jedi?

I used to be a big Star Wars fan, hell my screen name comes from the ESB radio drama! Now I don't really care. Sure I get those little flickers of joy every now and then(lego star wars, kotor, force unleashed) or even hope over this new movie, but its just not what it once was.