Star Wars VII - The Force Awakens, on BluRay and Dvd April 5th, 2016

[Mog]

I think you are really getting to the heart of what we should all really be concerned about here. Direction and FX are important, yes, but if the script is not there to give the film good places to go it all falls apart. (This was the major flaw of the prequel trilogy, forget those whinging about Hayden and Jar Jar, etc)

Some of you might remember when this image.......

<<image removed to prevent hissy-fits >>

......was posted on the Star Wars website after the release of Godzilla, effectively having a go at Godzilla for having a bad plot and also effectively saying that the Prequel Star Wars stuff would focus on plot. What a lie that was as we all were soon to see how crap the storyline and writing was for the Prequel trilogy. So with that sort of carry-on taking place in the past, it shows that the writing is going to be critical to episodes 7,8 and 9, but I still have very low expectations.

I still believe that Phantom Menace and AOTC could have been salvaged with some major tweaks and slight changes of focus. The general storyline/throughline for the three movies is okay, but a different scene here, a slightly re-worked scene there, a few more tweaks here and there, and the first two prequels could have been so much better.

In any case, when the new sequels finally hit, I'll be hiding out in my bunker clutching my non-anamorphic Original Trilogy DVDs and Genndy Tartakovsky Volume 2 Clone Wars DVD, muttering "I was right. I was right about the sequels. Tell your sister. . . .erm, the MW Community... I was right."

[azrael]

The only question, of which I will never get an answer to is, how much is Disney paying Abrams to direct 1 movie?

[Black Valkyrie]

With all those SW news, IMO since the prequels and the CW series, SW lost its flavor. I'm not that excited about the new sequel trilogy.

[sketchley]

With all those SW news, IMO since the prequels and the CW series, SW lost its flavor. I'm not that excited about the new sequel trilogy.

You lost it's flavour AFTER the CW series? I lost it way back when they rereleased the DVD version of the rereleased special editions, which are a rerelease of the VHS release of the original verisons. With the BluRay rererelease and the subsequent 3D rererererelease, I felt it justified my opinion that they were just milking things as far as they could go (no, never picked up the rerelease of the DVD release, let alone anything after).

Anyhow, I think everyone's hit all the nails about JJ Abrams (keeps you entertained but leaves a bad aftertaste as the plot that doesn't stand up, etc.) expect for:

+: he's really good with characters. The highlight (and the only thing that I really remember and want to watch again) of Star Trek is the characters (except for the bad guy. Win some, lose some, I guess). Despite having a bad bad guy (which usually breaks these sort of things), it's still enjoyable to rewatch. Characters are the MAIN reason why Star Wars (original series) was so great and we continued to watch the sequels and the re (ad nauseam) releases.

-: tricky, overly dramatic camerawork (never-mind the lens flare). Now Star Wars isn't exactly known for it's camera work (master shots, and alternating between your standard, locked closeups and back to the master), but the camerawork used on Star Trek is way toooooooooo far over the top for Star Wars...

... and the wipes better be retained. It's not Star Wars without the wipe!

Edited January 26, 2013 by sketchley

[Duke Togo]

Anyhow, I think everyone's hit all the nails about JJ Abrams (keeps you entertained but leaves a bad aftertaste as the plot that doesn't stand up, etc.) except for:

He's not writing it. Or plotting it, for that matter. He may not even be involved past Episode VII.

This isn't mine, but it amused me (and I quote this with great affection for the choice of director): "These lens flares are too accurate for Sand People; only J.J. Abrams is so precise."

Thank the maker!

[Mog]

... and the wipes better be retained. It's not Star Wars without the wipe!

And John Williams better be up in that bitch too! It ain't Star Wars without him and those leitmotifs.

He's not writing it. Or plotting it, for that matter. He may not even be involved past Episode VII.

True. But I'm sure there's a ton of Hollywood writers, who after watching the movie their script is based on, say "That's not the movie I wrote."

The director probably has a lot more influence than the writer on what parts of the script get filmed, how a scenes gets played out, what gets edited out, etc.

So even though he may not have written the script, I'm still worried about JJ's involvement with the sequels.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Mog

[EXO]

I love the guy JJ usually uses which is Michael Giacchino, but yeah... John Williams should always compose Star Wars.

[azrael]

I love the guy JJ usually uses which is Michael Giacchino, but yeah... John Williams should always compose Star Wars.

John Williams is 80 years old.... I don't know if he has the energy to make it to when production starts, which may not be until after well 2015 with Abrams' current schedule.

[Duke Togo]

John Williams is 80 years old.... I don't know if he has the energy to make it to when production starts, which may not be until after well 2015 with Abrams' current schedule.

SW7 is the only thing he is slated to direct after ST2 comes out.

[EXO]

John Williams is 80 years old.... I don't know if he has the energy to make it to when production starts, which may not be until after well 2015 with Abrams' current schedule.

Well then, to me if anyone can take the mantle, it's Giacchino...

[azrael]

SW7 is the only thing he is slated to direct after ST2 comes out.

Word is that Abrams hasn't committed to the 2015 release date Disney has stated. He still has another Star Trek movie and a Mission Impossible movie to do on top of the 2 TV projects that just got ordered. But he's only producer on the TV shows.

[JetJockey]

Bet we gonna see a Bad Robot droid.

Sadly most likely. Even if small somewhere on screen.

That would be cool.

No it wouldn't be cool. It's like whatever your favorite series is and another director/company coming in and saying their creations are part of that universe. It really sucked in Star Trek to see the Alias red orb and the drink reference to that horror movie (which I still haven't seen) in the club.

My feelings on Abrams directing even though he said he wasn't going to in the beginning. I think he's the best choice for success and profits. The only better choices would be Steven Spielberg, James Cameron, or Joss Whedon. Abrams will definitely have cool scenes in the movie. And as I mentioned in the Star Trek thread, the reboot is more Star Wars than Star Trek. I do like Abrams excitement for projects. In the commentary for Mission: Impossible III you can tell he likes this stuff. How he had to do the Top Gun shot of Cruise and that bridge scene with the car spinning in the air. But it still isn't a good Mission: Impossible movie but that's another discussion. And making a classic movie is more than putting together exciting scenes. After all the prequels do have cool scenes. If Abrams really is a fan of the originals, I hope he isn't just taking a guaranteed million + paycheck but saying, I have to get this right because original trilogy fans were let down by the prequels and I don't want to go down that path. So, I'm kind of happy about this choice because I know at least it will be exciting and Abrams will want to live up to those classic original movies.

Edited January 26, 2013 by JetJockey

[Lobizon]

Bet we gonna see a Bad Robot droid.

Why not Slusho

[Duke Togo]

My feelings on Abrams directing even though he said he wasn't going to in the beginning. I think he's the best choice for success and profits. The only better choices would be Steven Spielberg, James Cameron, or Joss Whedon.

Cameron would be a disaster. This isn't the early 90's anymore.

[azrael]

I'm not sure a rebooted Star Wars would be something I want to see. Otherwise, why call them "Episode 7-9"?

...If Abrams really is a fan of the originals, I hope he isn't just taking a guaranteed million + paycheck but saying, I have to get this right because original trilogy fans were let down by the prequels and I don't want to go down that path.

I would rather he make an intelligent movie with his own touch than pander to the fanboy-legion. But with any film, I'm cautiously optimistic about its outcome.

[taksraven]

I would rather he make an intelligent movie with his own touch than pander to the fanboy-legion. But with any film, I'm cautiously optimistic about its outcome.

Heh, wouldn't we all, but that ain't gonna happen.

[taksraven]

Sadly most likely. Even if small somewhere on screen.

No it wouldn't be cool. It's like whatever your favorite series is and another director/company coming in and saying their creations are part of that universe. It really sucked in Star Trek to see the Alias red orb and the drink reference to that horror movie (which I still haven't seen) in the club.

My feelings on Abrams directing even though he said he wasn't going to in the beginning. I think he's the best choice for success and profits. The only better choices would be Steven Spielberg, James Cameron, or Joss Whedon. Abrams will definitely have cool scenes in the movie. And as I mentioned in the Star Trek thread, the reboot is more Star Wars than Star Trek. I do like Abrams excitement for projects. In the commentary for Mission: Impossible III you can tell he likes this stuff. How he had to do the Top Gun shot of Cruise and that bridge scene with the car spinning in the air. But it still isn't a good Mission: Impossible movie but that's another discussion. And making a classic movie is more than putting together exciting scenes. After all the prequels do have cool scenes. If Abrams really is a fan of the originals, I hope he isn't just taking a guaranteed million + paycheck but saying, I have to get this right because original trilogy fans were let down by the prequels and I don't want to go down that path. So, I'm kind of happy about this choice because I know at least it will be exciting and Abrams will want to live up to those classic original movies.

I would have thought that the SW fanboys would be more worried about the Keri Russell, Greg Grunberg and Amanda Foreman cameo's that are going to happen in Episode VII.

[Duke Togo]

I would rather he make an intelligent movie with his own touch than pander to the fanboy-legion. But with any film, I'm cautiously optimistic about its outcome.

But Az, Abrams IS a part of the fanboy legion.

[sketchley]

The director probably has a lot more influence than the writer on what parts of the script get filmed, how a scenes gets played out, what gets edited out, etc.

Nods.

Let's not forget how many improved lines the director let's the actors do. We all know the classic improved line from Eps V. Not saying that the whole movie needs improv, but the apparent lack of it was felt in Eps I~III.

[taksraven]

I think the other major problem with episodes I-III is that Lucas only supposedly gave the relevant script pages to the actors on the days the scenes were filmed. If that is true it is bad filmmaking. He was supposed to have been really worried about the script leaking out......

[EXO]

I think the other major problem with episodes I-III is that Lucas only supposedly gave the relevant script pages to the actors on the days the scenes were filmed. If that is true it is bad filmmaking. He was supposed to have been really worried about the script leaking out......

It was only a minor problem that he wrote those scenes only minutes before.

[azrael]

But Az, Abrams IS a part of the fanboy legion.

Hence, I'm cautiously optimistic.

[sketchley]

It was only a minor problem that he wrote those scenes only minutes before.

Sarcasm aside, THE problem is that the scripts for the prequels essentially amounted to first drafts. That's probably the biggest difference with the original series.

Appearances are that this VII will sidestep that problem. We've got Mr. Lucas's notes. A writer to flesh the notes out into a script. A director to review the script. And back to Mr. Lucas to review it once more.

Team movie-making rocks!

[GU-11]

I still believe that Phantom Menace and AOTC could have been salvaged with some major tweaks and slight changes of focus. The general storyline/throughline for the three movies is okay, but a different scene here, a slightly re-worked scene there, a few more tweaks here and there, and the first two prequels could have been so much better.

Just my two cents' worth, but I think the biggest problem lies with Anikin's character as a whole.

I know I don't speak for every SW fan, but I envisioned a very different Anikin from the whiny little emo punk we got. Cliched as it might be, I saw him as a former slave who's suffered horribly under his master (maybe a pit-fighter ala Conan instead of pod-racing), who only marginally learns to trust in others through his relationship with Qui-Gon and a somewhat distrusting Obi Wan. His past makes him an unforgiving and vengeful individual, but he tries to do good if only to fit in. He trusts no one with the secrets of his heart, but makes a rare exception for Padme and Obi Wan.

I'd have also changed the events of his mother's kidnapping a little. Make it so that she's delusional from torture and sees Anikin as one of her sons in her new-found family, calling Ben's name instead of his before she dies. This makes him extremely bitter, and he takes it out on the Tusken camp. He confides in Padme, but simply mentions that his mother doesn't even remember him--I'll let this whiny moment slide because she's his mother, after all. Padme asks what happened to the Tuskens, and he casually mentions he left none of the vermin alive, instead of bawling in shame--this shows his inner Vader as a foreshadow to the viewer.

In EP3, the Jedi Council's rejection of his appointment as Master causes him to feel that the Jedi order is no better than all the corrupt and selfish people they seem to scorn. This is when Palpatine seduces him with promises of immortality and power. Padme's disaproval leads him to feel utterly betrayed and alone, and loneliness leads to fear, fear leads to anger, and anger leads to Disneyland, yadda yadda yadda....

That's my take on things, at least.

TL;DR, yeah, the general premise of the prequels are salvageable, but could have done with some tweaking.

Edited January 27, 2013 by GU-11

[the white drew carey]

I thought it would've been better if Anakin fell to the dark side by the end of Ep II, and then Ep III is the war between the Jedi and the newly minted Empire, with the added excitement of Obi-wan trying to spirit away Padme (who doesn't die at childbirth), baby Luke and baby Leia. In it we would also see Anakin's jealousy made legit as Padme and Obi-Wan fall for each other. This would also help to bolster the dedication Obi-Wan shows towards guarding Luke on Tattooine.

Just my thought.

[sketchley]

I thought it would've been better if Anakin fell to the dark side by the end of Ep II, and then Ep III is the war between the Jedi and the newly minted Empire, with the added excitement of Obi-wan trying to spirit away Padme (who doesn't die at childbirth),

This raises a big gaping plot hole in Eps III: in Eps. VI, Leiah says something along the lines of having memories of her mother. I interpret that as something along the lines of having spent a couple of years with her mother (even if she was only a toddler). Definitely not something retained from the extremely short, immediately post-childbirth time she spent as depicted in SW III - something that Luke has in common (and makes one wonder why he doesn't remember the EXACT SAME THING).

Anyhow, yeah, I hope that VII takes the series in a new direction, completely ignores Eps I~III, and references only the original versions of IV~VI.

[Lobizon]

So JJ Abrams Has Committed To Star Wars… But Not The 2015 Release Date

[Duke Togo]

So JJ Abrams Has Committed To Star Wars… But Not The 2015 Release Date

"the date could be changed if the development process requires it."

2015 still looks fairly reasonable if they aren't sticking to the usual May release. If they want a May release, I would say 2016 is more likely.

[Dynaman]

I think the other major problem with episodes I-III is that Lucas only supposedly gave the relevant script pages to the actors on the days the scenes were filmed.

If he did it would not make any difference, the movie was done filming months before release. The only reason the "I am your father" line was kept under wraps was that the line was dubber in later - only Hamill, James Earl Jones, Lucas, and maybe a select few others knew what was really said.

[JetJockey]

Cameron would be a disaster. This isn't the early 90's anymore.

James Cameron is one of the few directors you can point to as an artist. I'm sure he could make an awesome Star Wars movie if he wanted to.

I would have thought that the SW fanboys would be more worried about the Keri Russell, Greg Grunberg and Amanda Foreman cameo's that are going to happen in Episode VII.

No problems with small cameos or roles with Abrams favorite actors. They are actors who can play a part. And Keri Russell is pretty. For some strange reason I had a dream with her in it once and I've only seen her in Mission: Impossible III. I can't remember it now but I'm sure I noted it in my dream notebook. And rarely if ever do I have dreams with real or fantasy characters. I've only had one Star Wars dream and that was 6 to 7 years before the prequels. And I remember the Jedi having the fast lightsaber battles in my dream too.

It was only a minor problem that he wrote those scenes only minutes before.

In one of the extras. I think it's Episode III. George Lucas is walking around looking at the set progress or designs. And he jokes that he should finish the script. Maybe it's just me but I think a script or story should be finished before a movie starts production.

Just my two cents' worth, but I think the biggest problem lies with Anikin's character as a whole.

I know I don't speak for every SW fan, but I envisioned a very different Anikin from the whiny little emo punk we got.

I think just about every Star Wars fan thought these movies would be better and different than what we received. And most could make a better story too.

Just a short scene that I imagined without writing a whole treatment on it. I thought Obi-Wan would rescue or take Padme from the hospital (or wherever) just as Anakin (as Vader) was raiding it with the stormtroopers. Obi-Wan would see Anakin as Vader so it wouldn't be that much of a surprise to him in Episode IV. Also, Padme would see Anakin and always be sad at what happened to the person she loves.

Don't get me started on Obi-Wan's speech to Luke on Dagobah in Return of the Jedi and how I would tell Anakin's story vs the Emperor. I'm starting to feel that strong disappointment come back from the prequels and I thought I forgot about them.

This raises a big gaping plot hole in Eps III: in Eps. VI, Leiah says something along the lines of having memories of her mother. I interpret that as something along the lines of having spent a couple of years with her mother (even if she was only a toddler). Definitely not something retained from the extremely short, immediately post-childbirth time she spent as depicted in SW III - something that Luke has in common (and makes one wonder why he doesn't remember the EXACT SAME THING).

Yeah, this is but one of the problems with the prequels. George Lucas not paying attention to the story of the originals. And characters in the originals saying things that make no sense in the context of what we know of the prequel movies.

[peter]

This raises a big gaping plot hole in Eps III: in Eps. VI, Leiah says something along the lines of having memories of her mother. I interpret that as something along the lines of having spent a couple of years with her mother (even if she was only a toddler). Definitely not something retained from the extremely short, immediately post-childbirth time she spent as depicted in SW III - something that Luke has in common (and makes one wonder why he doesn't remember the EXACT SAME THING).

Anyhow, yeah, I hope that VII takes the series in a new direction, completely ignores Eps I~III, and references only the original versions of IV~VI.

Your version would have been way better than the one we got from Lucas.

[GU-11]

I think just about every Star Wars fan thought these movies would be better and different than what we received. And most could make a better story too.

Just a short scene that I imagined without writing a whole treatment on it. I thought Obi-Wan would rescue or take Padme from the hospital (or wherever) just as Anakin (as Vader) was raiding it with the stormtroopers. Obi-Wan would see Anakin as Vader so it wouldn't be that much of a surprise to him in Episode IV. Also, Padme would see Anakin and always be sad at what happened to the person she loves.

Yes, I would have also preferred such an added scene. The emotional impact would be great for both Padme and Obi Wan, seeing him in his mask. Even Vader himself, watching his lover and his friend side-by-side, while he is encased in a breathing apparatus.

[Mog]

If there's one thing Lucas got right, it was nipping all the potential Padme/Obi-Wan romance ideas and scenes out of the prequels. It would have weakened Anakin's primary motivation for turning to the dark side: preventing Padme's (and their child's) death.

I agree though that the whole "lost her will to live" thing was kinda dumb. There'd be a better connection to ROTJ if they faked Padme's death (died during childbirth) but hid her as a maid or nanny in the Organa household. Leia would see her (real) mommy, see her as always sad, and Luke would have no recollection of his real mother.

I think the most significant missteps in ROTS (which is easily the best of the prequels) were that and the whole Frankenstein's monster homage when Vader breaks out of his restraints (i.e., the NOOOOOOOOO!!!!1111!!!! scene).

Of couse, I could write ridiculously long posts about what I'd tweak about those first two prequels.

[taksraven]

Of couse, I could write ridiculously long posts about what I'd tweak about those first two prequels.

Hey, maybe if the first film didn't have Jar-Jar Bi..........ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Keith]

Lost the will to live? Oh hell no, Palpatine killed Padme through the darkside! I'm responding late here, but I'm for an Abrams film, though I think J. Michael Stracynski would fit the franchise better, he doesn't currently have the clout.