Bandai DX YF-30 Chronos

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I think it's more like the opposite. More of the active posters in this board are quick to praise Yamato/Arcadia and diss Bandai for whatever reason. I'm actually glad that there are more people that are appreciating Bandai's effort in Macross products now. I like both companies' products, but neither are perfect and each have their own strengths over one another.

Yes. I've observed through the years that people are quick to defend Yamato/Arcadia if someone says something bad about them. On the other hand, if someone praises Bandai, they usually get ignored or get pounced upon.

We all hate bandai instinctively because they act like they don't want money. Arcadia loves us better since they do all the rare stuff. (yes they charge a premium now for thier toys but that;s because you can't milk the molds for stuff like yf-19 etc) There I said it.

I think Shoji Kawamori deliberately added kibble to the backpacks with his mech design because he is more a fan of Arcadia. lol He is making bandai look bad on purpose like a scientist forced to create weapons for the enemy because he is captured and forced to work against his will. Think about it dude. Bandai only gives a crap about gundam. They only make these toys now because yamato/arcadia were raking in the dough and they need to kill off the toy competitors but secretly are disgusted to help macross as a show; a series that competes with gundam for attention in the robot show category. It would be like if a marvel fan was forced to create superman toys for dc or something like that. lol

Personally I think Arcadia have better toys but I think bandai are catching up. If arcadia don't give us more tampo printing, better ankles, and maybe offer stands they are going to get whined about still. We pay more for thier stuff.. On the other hand bandai should look at the pilot sculpts as they look bad next to arcadia. The competition is good as it forces them both to work harder than usual. If the crticism is valid they should accept that if they don't want to improve, then the customer will reduce purchases if issues are not addressed.

The VF-0D is looking pretty impressive. But that isn't too tricky compared to new designs. Lets hope the price is affordable. Bandai stiill have better boxes. that foam and the presetation look better.

I'm not a fanboy of either. In fact I like the bandai toys (bit angry they scrapped himetal) but i can see which company thinks about the details. You get better joints and gimmicks on the arcadia stuff. Stuff won't scratch off. And you don't need to worry about scalpers making it freaking hard to buy them. haha

Being a bigger toy company doesn't mean you can act like a dick.

Edited September 5, 2014 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[aceoftherebellion]

Very different companies, very different philosophies. Bandai's a huge company that really doesn't need our money. They can sit on the Frontier license, put out valkyries that are 'just okay' and coast on it, making just enough to make the line worthwhile and not sweating the difference since they've got an entire empire to sit on to shore up the difference. Yamarcadia has always been a smaller company(companies) that need their fanbase to stay loyal. It's really that simple.

Bandai releases are okay. Even the V1s aren't that bad. Flawed, yeah, but better than Yamato's early efforts. What I'd really say is that both lines- Bandai and Yamatocadia- hit a zenith with their respective V2s and haven't really been able to surpass that. Maybe that's just the limit of toy technology, who knows. Bandai's definitely been dropping the ball as far as QC and materials quality recently, and there's really no arguing that the CF-171 was unacceptable, period. There's no defending quality that low. They've done some things right, but it's reasonable that people can be grumpy. Most of Yamato/Arcadia's biggest fails are the better part of a decade or more behind us, so it's harder to continue to hold that against them, while Bandai's failings have been unfortunately consistent in terms of engineering and materials gaffes. It's hard to ignore that, and I think that's where most of us are coming from. They've still made some good toys.

[Desty_Nova]

Think about it dude. Bandai only gives a crap about gundam. They only make these toys now because yamato/arcadia were raking in the dough

I can't tell if you're joking. If yamato were raking in any dough they wouldn't have gone under.

[charger69]

AE $235

http://www.anime-export.com/product/21448

NY $233

https://www.nippon-yasan.com/macross/7160-macross-30-dx-chogokin-yf-30-chronos.html

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Yeah but a change of name doesn't mean death. They just decided it was better to make the stuff they make more pricey as quality increased and the new name was cooler. Just like kentucky fried chicken changing to KFC to avoid the word 'fried' to increase profit.

What's wrong with making your name different? Why not think of name change = upgrade rather than death?

They did pretty much everything in macross that there was to do. Obviously Bandai wanted a piece of it so they jumped in to kill them but coming later with less care fans could see that the early collector grade toys they made initially, showed thier lack of attention to detail. And now we have them sitting on license to push the company out of the macross toys biz. But they struggle still to totally outdo the rival.

Edited September 5, 2014 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Valkyrie Magnus]

I have had a lot of good and some bad from both

[Scyla]

I have one problem with the assumption that Kawamori was lazy with the backpack design. Don't get me wrong I had the same impression when I first saw the Battroid-Mode of the Chronos. However I think a mechanism to slide the tail fins up would be easy to implement.

So that get me thinking. If I could come up with a solution for the back-kibble than Kawamori must have thought about that too.

Some time later I thought about the Messiah Backpack design. I had the idea that it would be much saver for the pilot if the wings folded in the opposite direction to shield the cockpit similar to the wings of the VF-9. The downside of this design would be the inability to mount add-on packs onto the wing roots. Especially with the Frontier designs the add-on sets seem to be an important aspect of the Valkyries itself. I really like the fork-ish look of the VF-25.

Due to the fact that every Valkyrie form Frontier is based on the same basic frame (with the exception of the VF-171 which is based on the VF-17 and has a nice backpack) they are forced to have a similar design. The VF-27 has a ingenius mechanism for folding up the wings and still has the forked look that define the Frontier Valkyries for me. That shows that Kawamori can do it if he wants.

So why is this backpack on the YF-30. Maybe there are some massive booster for the wings that can slide over the wings where the tail fins would end up if they would slide into the backpack. Or Kawamori tries to achieve a realistic design. I could imagine that wings that fold up several times are highly unstable and very fragile. The rotating fins could also lead to a more agile Battroid.

On the other hand maybe Kawamori just likes kibble. There is more than enough evidence flying around.

[anime52k8]

I think SK just likes wing backpacks. I like them too, I think they look a lot better than wing butt-flaps.

[Keiichi]

AmiAmi got some stock in, 19,390 yen:

http://www.amiami.com/top/detail/detail?gcode=FIGURE-005738

Bit surprised that their price is so much higher than HLJs.

[VF-Zer0S]

cause they know people will buy lol

[xrentonx]

Count me as a fan of wing backpacks too. I like to extend the wings out sometimes...like I do with VF-1s. Not a fan of the way the VF-9 envelopes the body. It's all about backpacks, capes, and hip scabbards, son!

Edited September 6, 2014 by xrentonx

[Raptor One]

The -19's hip scabbards were always the most badass to me. But the 0D's cape ain't too shabby either

[treatment]

The v.1 VF-1's were garbage regardless of when they were made.

If you had bought them in 2008 and beyond, they were garbage for sure.

If you had bought them in 2003-2004, they were awesome.

[treatment]

I think it's more like the opposite. More of the active posters in this board are quick to praise Yamato/Arcadia and diss Bandai for whatever reason. I'm actually glad that there are more people that are appreciating Bandai's effort in Macross products now. I like both companies' products, but neither are perfect and each have their own strengths over one another.

Yes. I've observed through the years that people are quick to defend Yamato/Arcadia if someone says something bad about them. On the other hand, if someone praises Bandai, they usually get ignored or get pounced upon.

Not sure where you're getting that, but alot of active posteres in this board are critical of both Bandai and Yamato/Arcadia at the same level.

Bandai just have more products being offered now, so you'll find more vocal criticisms about their products and current selling-strategy.

In contrast, there are no Yamato valks anymore. Arcadia only has few valks, but they have their share of criticisms from bone-white colors, stupid ankles, and mind-boggling pricing. Heck! The 0D is not even out and nobody really knows how much they're gonna jack us with the pricing, but we're all already arguing intensely about the damn blue-colors on it.

I think once Arcadia finds its footings secured and offer us more valks, you'll find more posts and threads heavily criticizing their stuff.

[treatment]

AmiAmi got some stock in, 19,390 yen:

http://www.amiami.com/top/detail/detail?gcode=FIGURE-005738

Bit surprised that their price is so much higher than HLJs.

hlj's not even offering the yf-30 anymore, so Ami's gonna jack their pricing accordingly.

No competition and bandai's limited availability selling strategy == seller's market...

[Mommar]

Not sure where you're getting that, but alot of active posteres in this board are critical of both Bandai and Yamato/Arcadia at the same level.

Bandai just have more products being offered now, so you'll find more vocal criticisms about their products and current selling-strategy.

In contrast, there are no Yamato valks anymore. Arcadia only has few valks, but they have their share of criticisms from bone-white colors, stupid ankles, and mind-boggling pricing. Heck! The 0D is not even out and nobody really knows how much they're gonna jack us with the pricing, but we're all already arguing intensely about the damn blue-colors on it.

I think once Arcadia finds its footings secured and offer us more valks, you'll find more posts and threads heavily criticizing their stuff.

And don't forget many are speculating/fretting about ball jointed ankles on the0D as well.

[Keiichi]

hlj's not even offering the yf-30 anymore, so Ami's gonna jack their pricing accordingly.

No competition and bandai's limited availability selling strategy == seller's market...

Haha, yes, I'm familiar with the mechanics of capitalism, thank you. But the thing is, AmiAmi didn't "jack" their price, that 19,390 yen is the price they've listed since release (not sure if it was their pre-order price). Meanwhile HLJ has stuck to the 18,000Y price point for all their restocks (compare that to AmiAmi's VF-25F at 12,000Y, which has been maintained for restocks, versus HLJ's 13,300Y asking price, which I think has risen 300Y in the last week or so). Just not used to seeing AmiAmi having the substantially higher price for a valk compared to HLJ, but then I haven't really paid attention to that in a while so maybe it's more common nowadays.

cause they know people will buy lol

Haha, true enough. I know that if I hadn't managed to grab one of HLJ's restocks I would have happily given AmiAmi my money.

More expense than HLJ or not, it's still under MSRP so not a bad deal at all. Folks obviously agreed as they're all gone!

[Mommar]

I'm still honestly surprised the 30 has sold out. I didn't think a video game plane would do so well.

[aceoftherebellion]

Maybe because it's a unique design? The Macross 30 version YF-29s didn't do nearly as well IIRC, so it's probably more than just a game popularity. Maybe there's just enough takers that an all-new-valk was too much to resist.

[anime52k8]

The Isamu YF-29 was a web exclusive so it's kind of hard to gauge, but the Ozma YF-29 sold out everywhere quicker than this one did and is going for $100 over retail on the secondary market.

[aceoftherebellion]

Welp, touche then, I take it back. Maybe the game really was just that popular. They certainly put enough into marketing it, that's for sure

[xrentonx]

Never doubt an Ozma release doing well

[Mommar]

Never doubt an Ozma release doing well

I would question whether or not it's purely because it's Ozma, however Leon is a freaking nobody and he's selling out too. Maybe it's the fact Ozma is Ozma AND the YF-30 is new and pretty cool looking? And it's two separate instances that have really sold those two Valks. Bandai must've known Ozma would be popular just for his name as they made it a general release and not made to order like Isamu.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I have one problem with the assumption that Kawamori was lazy with the backpack design. Don't get me wrong I had the same impression when I first saw the Battroid-Mode of the Chronos. However I think a mechanism to slide the tail fins up would be easy to implement.

So that get me thinking. If I could come up with a solution for the back-kibble than Kawamori must have thought about that too.

Some time later I thought about the Messiah Backpack design. I had the idea that it would be much saver for the pilot if the wings folded in the opposite direction to shield the cockpit similar to the wings of the VF-9. The downside of this design would be the inability to mount add-on packs onto the wing roots. Especially with the Frontier designs the add-on sets seem to be an important aspect of the Valkyries itself. I really like the fork-ish look of the VF-25.

Due to the fact that every Valkyrie form Frontier is based on the same basic frame (with the exception of the VF-171 which is based on the VF-17 and has a nice backpack) they are forced to have a similar design. The VF-27 has a ingenius mechanism for folding up the wings and still has the forked look that define the Frontier Valkyries for me. That shows that Kawamori can do it if he wants.

So why is this backpack on the YF-30. Maybe there are some massive booster for the wings that can slide over the wings where the tail fins would end up if they would slide into the backpack. Or Kawamori tries to achieve a realistic design. I could imagine that wings that fold up several times are highly unstable and very fragile. The rotating fins could also lead to a more agile Battroid.

On the other hand maybe Kawamori just likes kibble. There is more than enough evidence flying around.

Fins can't be fragile. The YF-21 uses fins to deflect the shots with its fins by using them as mini shields.

I think perhaps technology is just so much better that they can get away with fragile pieces in spots that don't look practical. Or maybe they have flexible under skeleton that lets the frame bend a little bit. Sort of like the skin on the yf-21 in macross plus. (see the intro where the wings bend with no seams)

[Loop]

Fins can't be fragile. The YF-21 uses fins to deflect the shots with its fins by using them as mini shields.

I think perhaps technology is just so much better that they can get away with fragile pieces in spots that don't look practical. Or maybe they have flexible under skeleton that lets the frame bend a little bit. Sort of like the skin on the yf-21 in macross plus. (see the intro where the wings bend with no seams)

The fin fragility is not the issue with the YF-21, it uses pinpoint barrier tech to deflect. It would seem as long as you could get the barrier to surround whatever object, it would be well protected. I would think if you could wrap a piece of paper with pinpoint barrier, it would be pretty damn strong lol.

[Scyla]

Fins can't be fragile. The YF-21 uses fins to deflect the shots with its fins by using them as mini shields.

I think perhaps technology is just so much better that they can get away with fragile pieces in spots that don't look practical. Or maybe they have flexible under skeleton that lets the frame bend a little bit. Sort of like the skin on the yf-21 in macross plus. (see the intro where the wings bend with no seams)

The fins on the YF-21 was one single piece. My train of thoughts was that folding a crucial part of the Valkyrie (such as the wings for atmospheric flight) too many times (like on the VF-9) would lead to an instability of the part. Valkyries do not function like Transformers where one part splits into 1000 pieces that get arrange someplace else. They have to be anchored in he real world physics. Since some people insist that Macross is a pure Sci-Fi show first and foremost I'd imagine that the physics of today still apply to them.

[Sildani]

Unless Overtechnology has rendered some aspects of physics null.

[eriku]

Finally got a chance to spend some time with my 30 and I love it. It's more versatile than I had thought. Along with being able to remove the missile pod I like the option to remove the tail fins and fold the wings flat in battroid mode. Locks together better than I thought it would in battroid too. Really dig the transformation.

[aceoftherebellion]

Unless Overtechnology has rendered some aspects of physics null.

This was actually the exact implications I got from Zero, and it always seemed to make some sort of sense to me. Otherwise, all of the transformation joints on every valkyrie should be nightmarish structural weaknesses from any engineering standpoint, no matter how well designed the transformation itself looks. That's just simple physics. I kind of assumed from zero that it's why they don't end up just rattling themselves apart in normal flight use, honestly. Let alone Battroids walking around on what should be engine nacelle turbines...

[chyll2]

imo, the recent post is all about other things with little information on yf-30

[Gakken85]

I bet more people have played the video game than seen the original SDF macross show.

[MacrossJunkie]

It's funny but I feel the complete opposite and love my Bandais over the Yamacadias (even though I hate the PO process) and still play with my YF-30 almost on a daily basis while my YF-19 just looks like a static fat toy (and I'm still trying to get together enough waterslide decals to do it justice) - its not very playable or fun to transform IMHO (too plasticky that I'm afraid for all the sharp fragile edges - just like my VF-4G which is amazing to look at, not so fun to transform or play with). The fact that it was $150 more also bites - that's whole other VF-25! At least for me, it seems like the Yamacadias require so much more work to (decal & weather) bring it up to the same level of display/finish as my Bandai renewals - of course a lot of that could be solved with more tampo printing, but also more consistent panel lines - the depths on the Yamacadias are so shallow on some and fine that they don't take a wash - but they vary so much!

I really wish Arcadia would include waterslide decals instead of stickers or at least along with stickers. Even with trimming the stickers as much as I can manage, you can still see how it's higher than the surface, which never looks quite as good as if it were just printed on or going with decals.

Agreed about the Yamarcadia valks having really shallow panel lines. Some of the panel lines on the 19 are so shallow, I can't tell if they are really there or if I'm just seeing things or I know they're supposed to be there but are completely invisible, like certain portions of the lines on the shoulder pauldrons. The Bandai VF-25's also have some shallow lines as well, particularly the back of the leg areas, but nowhere near as bad.

To clear things up, i wasn't trying to say the 30 is better than Yarcadia, I said Bandai is exceeding Arcadia in the strides they are making in their respective lines. They are evolving faster in my opinion, i tried to state that clearer in the comment that followed the first post. Yarcadia may still have an edge but that's comparing toy to toy, I'm comparing the speed of the toys evolution in improvements etc, not the toys quality against the other toy. This may be difficult to wrap around as I may not be communicating it the right way.

In short, I think Bandai evolved much faster from the v1 vf-25 to the renewal 25, 29, and 30 than Yarcadia evolved from their v1 1/60 to the VF-4G. I used those two examples because the 30 and the 4G are the height of engineering for each company from my view.

I think one thing Bandai really needs to improve on are the exceedingly pathetic excuses for intake fans they do on all of the valks. To call them half assed would be a very generous description. I don't even know why they bother to make the intake covers removable if they aren't even going to put any effort at all in making the fans look anywhere close to decent. They put so much detail even into areas that would rarely be seen at all, and then they hire an 8 yr old to make a mold of the intake fans.

[mickyg]

Agreed completely.

I didn't know what all the fuss was about till I got a Frontier Valk and saw for myself. I do wonder if its a problem with paint application in this area, though. The intake is diecast so it's possible we're seeing a metal primer, plus a color coat here. Perhaps that'd explain the "melted wax" look of the intake fan?

[Kanedas Bike]

While it may seem like an apples to apples comparison looking at Bandai Renewal releases as they relate to Yamato/Arcadia you really can't.

And I agree that Bandai's rapid evolution with regards to design quality and aesthetic has been noteworthy, but they also have a gigantic advantage by way of capital and the ability to spend money to get improvements designed and to market. And I don't know why, can't really explain it but it still feels like Arcadia views Macross as a labor of love while Bandai treats it as just another product line in their non-Gundam catalog.

Bandai = BIG business

Yamato/Arcadia = MEDIUM business, almost garage kit status

There is a reason why Arcadia is doing 1 new mold per year and has been more than tentative with other releases.

And all of that said.

I really do like the YF-30, especially in Battroid mode. As a matter of fact it hasn't been in Fighter mode since I took it out of the box.

-b.

[UN Spacy]

Anyone snag the 18k one on Mandarake?