The Virgin Road

[infosys_ms]

Update on my progress

http://maxharddrive....irgin-road.html

Original post

The Virgin Road

In 1985 I saw Robotech one day after school. It was a cartoon that didn't seem like it was made for kids. It quickly became one of my favorites. It was epic in scale and complex in story and wonderfully animated. The Variable Technology Valkyrie was instantly the coolest thing I had ever seen. A F-14 that turned into a giant frakking robot! The toy was one of my favorite toys of all time. Still is.

In the 90's I learned to make 3D Models and CGI animation. First thing I did? a Valkyrie. How cool would it be to have a fully functioning 3D model to play with? I did a free hand model in fighter mode first, good practice. It transformed alright ... into a mess. In order for the model to transform properly I disassembled, measured and scanned a spare toy had and it did. My goal was to make as realistic a plane as I could based on the toy, the cartoon and a F-14, still is. First the model was cleaned up of toy details and some engineering corrections where made. Apparently there is a big debate on the interwebs about the legs transformation sequence. I made a hip transformation method that made sense to me. The landing gear and the gun pod had to be redisigned because the gun pod doesn't fit under the toy landing gear. Also a redesign of the head, that flips back and forth during transformation not spins a around. Mine's is a A type head with S type quad lasers, hence the M. That made for a nice affect with the turret in fighter mode. Other ideas I had, I added LANTIRN like pods for eyes and a FLIR cam for the face. Anyways life happened and I only worked on it a few moments a year ... sometimes less.

-earliest rendering-

Fast forward (years) and I have cleaned up the model quite a bit. I got a lot of surfacing practice and have all the parts covered. I have made a very detailed cockpit and a weapons rack, missiles and rocket pods. I scaled up from 1/55 until I could fit the cockpit under the canopy. The length I settled on was 64ft to the official 46ft ... not quite sure how that works ... but its got about 2ft on a F-22 so that OK. The weapons package attaches the body not the wings so the wings can fold back in battloid mode. The racks and weapons fold back in this mode for a more logical function. The design was a 1980s toy based on a 70s jet but in the story the design came about in the 1990s, well in to stealth territory. I can't really change much with out messing up the transformation but I did what I could. To make it stealthy I added serrated edges, faceted and smoothed surfaces where I could. My surfacing is based on a F-22 plus the toy and cartoon detail. The color scheme was always going to be Max Sterling's Virgin Road.

-In this render the nose was elongated. BAD IDEA! In battloid mode it looked ricockulous. I forgot, the toy transforms perfectly no need for changes -

Am I the only one who thinks Spacey sounds dumb? Sure it's Army, Navy but not Airy, Right? It is Air Force, it should be Space Force. The UN can have a Spacey, the US will have a Space Force. I figured the U.S. Space Force was going to need a new logo, cuz the Macross logo sucks bad. I made a shooting star design based on the classic Air Force logo, that had a sense of motion. The sense of motion was also applied the US flags on the stabilizers with the star fields facing forward.

This is as close to finished as I am going to get. I would say 95% finished, I will get to 99% but my work is never finished. There are a few details I'd like to get to but I need to move on to transforming this bad boy. This "final build" has the nose returned to toy dimensions. Details have been tightened up, even more toy elements where removed. The vernier thrusters have been redesigned after studying DYRML details. Vernier thrusters have also been added to the wing tips. The cockpit has also received much attention. It is based on the M:SDF1 design and my own ideas. I will have close ups of the cock pit after is add some effects; glowing buttons, display UI and textures..

The next step is gerwalk mode! Stand by for more.

Edited December 10, 2012 by infosys_ms

[jenius]

Hmmm, this gave me a question for the noob thread....

Edit, figured it out on my own.

Spacey has grown on me but I like your take on it.

Edited December 8, 2012 by jenius

[Aurel Tristen]

I'm with you on the Spacy thing. Its grown on me too, but I still think Space Force is a better 'translation.'

I really like to see other people's interpritations of the VF-1. I did something similar, starting with a model done based on some line art, which resulted in some bad looking transformations. I also spent a lot of time trying to make things work mechanically, and ended up with my own solutions.

I'd like to see more and higher resolution renders of your work though. From what I can see, I like it, though if I were to make one change, I would put the vertical stabilizers back at an angle. They look so dynamic and aggressive at an angle.

[infosys_ms]

Updated with hi res images. Enjoy. Tell me what you think internet.

Edited December 10, 2012 by infosys_ms

[infosys_ms]

Some lighting tests with the final model and textures.

http://maxharddrive.blogspot.com/2012/09/a-quick-shot.html

[chillyche]

I see the rear fins are back at an angle.

[infosys_ms]

Yeah, they are variable. Notice in the early render they are angled. Check out the video in the original post. All of the control surfaces are variable geometry. In character; during flight and combat maneuvers all the surfaces will adjust geometry dynamically.

[infosys_ms]

Variable Geometry Surface Tests

http://maxharddrive.blogspot.com/

In these shots the redesigned elevators are tested.

[Zinjo]

Am I the only one who thinks Spacey sounds dumb? Sure it's Army, Navy but not Airy, Right? It is Air Force, it should be Space Force. The UN can have a Spacey, the US will have a Space Force. I figured the U.S. Space Force was going to need a new logo, cuz the Macross logo sucks bad. I made a shooting star design based on the classic Air Force logo, that had a sense of motion. The sense of motion was also applied the US flags on the stabilizers with the star fields facing forward.

When you understand UN SPACY is a condensed term for "United Nations Space Navy" it becomes less dumb. Considering the UN Spacy is composed of many nation state members, assuming the US would be leading it is a bit presumptuous and somewhat arrogant.

Who knows what events took place to allow the UN to become a global government. It would have to be rather substantial to weaken the existing power players on the world stage enough to work together. Nations like the US, China, Russia, UK, Euro-zone, etc... All exert a certain amount of influence in world affairs.

That being said, put whatever logo you wish on your valkyrie.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Zinjo

[dialNforNinja]

Looking at it realistically, the US would be more likely a part of the Anti-Unification forces and flying SV-52s. I mean, can you seriously see any US administration agreeing to be subsumed to a unified planetary government? Of course, Macross canon says the US was on board and expies of a lot of our aerospace firms are major contributors to the VF-1 systems, but still.

For your model itself, if you're looking for stealth, a VF-1 is the wrong shelf in the wrong warehouse on the wrong airbase - the SW-XA I makes a decent stab at it, but the bog standard Valk is just too gribbly, with too much frontal area and too many right angles - just the seam where the chestplate slides over the nose would likely add more to the radar signature than a true stealth fighter has in total - radar absorption through the energy conversion armor is one thing, but there's no real point trying to put passive stealth features on the beast.

All that aside, it is a very nice looking model, and applying real world physics to giant mecha is a laughable folly anyway, so trick it out however you like! I never have the patience to refine a single design like you've been, I spend a couple of days working out a transformation and tweaking the proportions, then move on to animating it, and sometimes get a ways into texturing before getting sick of looking at it for a while. I guess that's why my mecha models all come in around 3k-5k triangles, that's just how many I can bang into shape in that time Obviously, for my game project I'll need to dive into texturing in a way that goes beyond the basic material colors and occasional diffuse color map I've done in the past, but with several different mecha to work on (plus all the other 3d assets; human and alien characters, scenery, equipment, etc., thoguh I'm hoping to do procedural geenration of the actual terrain at least so as not to take years placing bushes and trees) not to mentoin programming tasks there should be plenty to switch between and always have something different to work on.

Are you going to do super parts for it as well?

[sketchley]

When you understand UN SPACY is a condensed term for "United Nations Space Navy"

Technically, its "Unified Forces Space Forces" in Japanese.

[paramat]

I always assumed it was United Nations SPACe agenCY.

[Zinjo]

Technically, its "Unified Forces Space Forces" in Japanese.

Care to take a stab at reconciling how they got UN SPACY from "Unified Forces Space Forces" ?

[sketchley]

Care to take a stab at reconciling how they got UN SPACY from "Unified Forces Space Forces" ?

Only if you can figure out how they got Supervision Army from Inspection Forces.

[infosys_ms]

Whatever the case may be in story is cool. I just said it sounds dumb. My GF is spacey.

[dialNforNinja]

I thought the Supervision Army and Inspection Forces were the names of the opposed factions? Anyway, my conclusion was that one side mostly trusted their people to operate with their normal leaders and an occasional check in with Protoculture high command, while the other insisted on direct and strict oversight of their bioengineered humanoid weapons and/or subject population at all times.

[sketchley]

I thought the Supervision Army and Inspection Forces were the names of the opposed factions? Anyway, my conclusion was that one side mostly trusted their people to operate with their normal leaders and an occasional check in with Protoculture high command, while the other insisted on direct and strict oversight of their bioengineered humanoid weapons and/or subject population at all times.

Supervision Army = Inspection Forces.

Inspection Forces is the literal translation of the term. Supervision Forces? Well... http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=20552&p=447171 (at the bottom)

[Zinjo]

Only if you can figure out how they got Supervision Army from Inspection Forces.

Touche my friend

However , I was under the impress we Westerners coined that phrase?

Edited April 12, 2013 by Zinjo

[sketchley]

Did you follow the link in my reply to dialNforNinja? You'll find the source.

[dialNforNinja]

So, is there any actual information about the Superinvisionspection Army Forces (beyond "owners of the pre-crash Macross," unless you go by the DYRL idea that it was a Meltran gunship) and is a name ever put to their opponents?

[anime52k8]

So, is there any actual information about the Superinvisionspection Army Forces (beyond "owners of the pre-crash Macross," unless you go by the DYRL idea that it was a Meltran gunship) and is a name ever put to their opponents?

go watch macross 7

[sketchley]

So, is there any actual information about the Superinvisionspection Army Forces (beyond "owners of the pre-crash Macross," unless you go by the DYRL idea that it was a Meltran gunship) and is a name ever put to their opponents?

There's not too much else, but keep in mind that they weren't just the owners of the pre-crash Macross - they were using it in fleet battles with the Zentraadi up to the point that they directed it to crash on Earth* - as the reason why they told it to fall to Earth was due to battle damage.

Anyhow, more sources of info:

- timeline http://sketchleystats.webatu.com/Statistics/Sourcebook/Timeline.php#protoculture (note GREEN is official.)

- read the Chronicle? http://sketchleystats.webatu.com/Trans/MCindex.php (Worldguide and History are the best places to start. Specifically the ones about the Protoculture, Zentraadi and Varohta Forces.)

* I'm tempted to add that maybe some of them suicidal piloted it to Earth as its not directly stated either which way, but as this is an SF show, it's a safe bet to say that the ship was on autopilot.

[Zinjo]

Did you follow the link in my reply to dialNforNinja? You'll find the source.

I missed that!

Cool, gives me some interesting reading.

I always thought there were more branches to the UN Military and Egan Loo confirmed it.

it's gong to be an interesting read to be sure

There's not too much else, but keep in mind that they weren't just the owners of the pre-crash Macross - they were using it in fleet battles with the Zentraadi up to the point that they directed it to crash on Earth* - as the reason why they told it to fall to Earth was due to battle damage.

Anyhow, more sources of info:

- timeline http://sketchleystats.webatu.com/Statistics/Sourcebook/Timeline.php#protoculture (note GREEN is official.)

- read the Chronicle? http://sketchleystats.webatu.com/Trans/MCindex.php (Worldguide and History are the best places to start. Specifically the ones about the Protoculture, Zentraadi and Varohta Forces.)

* I'm tempted to add that maybe some of them suicidal piloted it to Earth as its not directly stated either which way, but as this is an SF show, it's a safe bet to say that the ship was on autopilot.

It is an interesting question, the "why" of it all. One can simply nod and blindly accept what sounds like a throw away answer by a group who didn't feel it merited much more consideration.

[infosys_ms]

Looking at it realistically, the US would be more likely a part of the Anti-Unification forces and flying SV-52s. I mean, can you seriously see any US administration agreeing to be subsumed to a unified planetary government? Of course, Macross canon says the US was on board and expies of a lot of our aerospace firms are major contributors to the VF-1 systems, but still. For your model itself, if you're looking for stealth, a VF-1 is the wrong shelf in the wrong warehouse on the wrong airbase - the SW-XA I makes a decent stab at it, but the bog standard Valk is just too gribbly, with too much frontal area and too many right angles - just the seam where the chestplate slides over the nose would likely add more to the radar signature than a true stealth fighter has in total - radar absorption through the energy conversion armor is one thing, but there's no real point trying to put passive stealth features on the beast. All that aside, it is a very nice looking model, and applying real world physics to giant mecha is a laughable folly anyway, so trick it out however you like! I never have the patience to refine a single design like you've been, I spend a couple of days working out a transformation and tweaking the proportions, then move on to animating it, and sometimes get a ways into texturing before getting sick of looking at it for a while. I guess that's why my mecha models all come in around 3k-5k triangles, that's just how many I can bang into shape in that time Obviously, for my game project I'll need to dive into texturing in a way that goes beyond the basic material colors and occasional diffuse color map I've done in the past, but with several different mecha to work on (plus all the other 3d assets; human and alien characters, scenery, equipment, etc., thoguh I'm hoping to do procedural geenration of the actual terrain at least so as not to take years placing bushes and trees) not to mentoin programming tasks there should be plenty to switch between and always have something different to work on. Are you going to do super parts for it as well?

Realistically? You’re talking 1999 USA? Top of our game USA? The US would not be subsumed by the UN. The UN would be subsumed by the US and they would have zero choice about it. Who’s going to stop us? Russia and Europe are left trashed by the entry of the Marcoss. China? Not likely. The US would have the Navy all over that site in 2 seconds and Japan would welcome it. There is no way that the US would not dominate the UN after a global event like Macross. Indeed the rest of the world would get behind US leadership. Naturally the Arab nations would have a problem with a US dominated UN. That is why the Anti Unification movement started in the Middle East.

Not trying to change any well established canon. There is still plenty of wiggle room in the story’s wonderful vagueness. Before the establishment of the UN Spacey and immediately after the crash only the US would be able to get to the moon to build a base. I imagine the US would militarize NASA into the US Space Force. The US Space Force would eventually be absorbed in to the Spacey. This is just my way to keep from putting that stupid UN Spacey logo on my model.

[sketchley]

In short, the Unified Government/Anti-Unification Alliance division is broadly painted in terms of the 1980-1983 world view. In short: East vs. West.

HOWEVER, when one looks at the finer details, sections of each country supported either side. So, it's not as simple as East vs. West. Throw onto that the political/economic/religious/etc implications of confirmation of the existence of aliens, and one gets a 10 year war on an unheard of scale (think Germany at the end of WWII on a global scale).

So, it's not anywhere as simple as "the UN as we know it morphed into the Unified Government" or "existing/current (as of 2013) political divisions morphed into the Unified Government/Anti Unification Alliance division".

[Zinjo]

Realistically? You’re talking 1999 USA? Top of our game USA? The US would not be subsumed by the UN. The UN would be subsumed by the US and they would have zero choice about it. Who’s going to stop us? Russia and Europe are left trashed by the entry of the Marcoss. China? Not likely. The US would have the Navy all over that site in 2 seconds and Japan would welcome it. There is no way that the US would not dominate the UN after a global event like Macross. Indeed the rest of the world would get behind US leadership. Naturally the Arab nations would have a problem with a US dominated UN. That is why the Anti Unification movement started in the Middle East.

Not trying to change any well established canon. There is still plenty of wiggle room in the story’s wonderful vagueness. Before the establishment of the UN Spacey and immediately after the crash only the US would be able to get to the moon to build a base. I imagine the US would militarize NASA into the US Space Force. The US Space Force would eventually be absorbed in to the Spacey. This is just my way to keep from putting that stupid UN Spacey logo on my model.

Whoa, down boy, put the flag away for a second.

As I indicated some dramatic changes would have to take place to weaken the power players in the world to collectively share the A.S.S..

Essentially if the US tried to take over Ataria island the rest of the world would see it as an act of aggression akin to Hitlers invasion of Poland. No one would be foolish enough to allow one nation to monopolize the A.S.S., that is simply a propaganda fueled fantasy..

In 1999 China was emerging as an economic powerhouse and I believe still had it's formidable submarine fleet as well as a ridiculous standing arming in the millions. Russia would not shut down because they lost Moscow, nor would any other country, if they lost their capital. The Euro block including the UK would not stand by and allow this either.

If the US were indeed able to get a foothold on the island they would be cut off from not only financing from the rest of the world, but also the oil needed to keep the bloated war machine running. The crippling of the US war machine would never come from actual combat, but by simply starving the beast into submission.

Most don't fully appreciate how fragile the US economy has been for a very long time. Something as simple as not trading in US dollars would bankrupt the nation in a matter or days because the US Treasury Bills would loose their value.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Zinjo

[infosys_ms]

Whoa, down boy, put the flag away for a second.

As I indicated some dramatic changes would have to take place to weaken the power players in the world to collectively share the A.S.S..

Essentially if the US tried to take over Ataria island the rest of the world would see it as an act of aggression akin to Hitlers invasion of Poland. No one would be foolish enough to allow one nation to monopolize the A.S.S., that is simply a propaganda fueled fantasy..

In 1999 China was emerging as an economic powerhouse and I believe still had it's formidable submarine fleet as well as a ridiculous standing arming in the millions. Russia would not shut down because they lost Moscow, nor would any other country, if they lost their capital. The Euro block including the UK would not stand by and allow this either.

If the US were indeed able to get a foothold on the island they would be cut off from not only financing from the rest of the world, but also the oil needed to keep the bloated war machine running. The crippling of the US war machine would never come from actual combat, but by simply starving the beast into submission.

Most don't fully appreciate how fragile the US economy has been for a very long time. Something as simple as not trading in US dollars would bankrupt the nation in a matter or days because the US Treasury Bills would loose their value.

Hitler? Really? The world would think we are going to invade to exterminate an entire race of people?

[TehPW]

uh guys? the storyline of Macross, as created in the vision of the world of the 1980's has the same problems that space 1999, Star Trek, and 2001: A Space Oddessy had when it came to filling the gaps between the creator's time frame of their TV show/movie and when they actually put pen & ink to the paper: Presumption.

in the 1960's ST, we're supposed to have the Eugenics Wars, in 1996, WWIII in the middle of this century (still a possiblilty sadly) and the events of ST: First Contact. in the 1970's, we were supposed to have a fully functional moon base on Luna by the 90's (and already bucking Space EPA standards...). and well... i think SK was smoking a lot of herbs when he penned 2001.

Macross? Obviously, when Macross was created and the back story for the various nations that formed the UN Goverment, some nations were clearly casted incorrectly...but remember this. it was a kids show, to sell toys. who really gives two sh*ts if the US was thought to go along with this UNG thing not what i actually think would have happened.... which would not be as pretty, when you think about how we reacted post 9-11... or how about this: im pretty sure people thought of the US way differently when Carter & Ronny was in office, compared to Clinton & W...

Edited April 21, 2013 by TehPW

[Zinjo]

Hitler? Really? The world would think we are going to invade to exterminate an entire race of people?

Read a history book...

uh guys? the storyline of Macross, as created in the vision of the world of the 1980's has the same problems that space 1999, Star Trek, and 2001: A Space Oddessy had when it came to filling the gaps between the creator's time frame of their TV show/movie and when they actually put pen & ink to the paper: Presumption.

in the 1960's ST, we're supposed to have the Eugenics Wars, in 1996, WWIII in the middle of this century (still a possiblilty sadly) and the events of ST: First Contact. in the 1970's, we were supposed to have a fully functional moon base on Luna by the 90's (and already bucking Space EPA standards...). and well... i think SK was smoking a lot of herbs when he penned 2001.

Macross? Obviously, when Macross was created and the back story for the various nations that formed the UN Goverment, some nations were clearly casted incorrectly...but remember this. it was a kids show, to sell toys. who really gives two sh*ts if the US was thought to go along with this UNG thing not what i actually think would have happened.... which would not be as pretty, when you think about how we reacted post 9-11... or how about this: im pretty sure people thought of the US way differently when Carter & Ronny was in office, compared to Clinton & W...

True, we have the benefit of retrospect.

My assertions are based on anticipated extrapolations on what the international community has done and would, in a general sense, be likely to do in such a situation. Logic is really the only tool we can use in this instance, though logic can never anticipate any emotional responses to perceived threats by any peoples. Which speaks to your point about world reaction to 9/11.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Zinjo

[infosys_ms]

Whoa, down boy, put the flag away for a second.

As I indicated some dramatic changes would have to take place to weaken the power players in the world to collectively share the A.S.S..

Essentially if the US tried to take over Ataria island the rest of the world would see it as an act of aggression akin to Hitlers invasion of Poland. No one would be foolish enough to allow one nation to monopolize the A.S.S., that is simply a propaganda fueled fantasy..

In 1999 China was emerging as an economic powerhouse and I believe still had it's formidable submarine fleet as well as a ridiculous standing arming in the millions. Russia would not shut down because they lost Moscow, nor would any other country, if they lost their capital. The Euro block including the UK would not stand by and allow this either.

If the US were indeed able to get a foothold on the island they would be cut off from not only financing from the rest of the world, but also the oil needed to keep the bloated war machine running. The crippling of the US war machine would never come from actual combat, but by simply starving the beast into submission.

Most don't fully appreciate how fragile the US economy has been for a very long time. Something as simple as not trading in US dollars would bankrupt the nation in a matter or days because the US Treasury Bills would loose their value.

You automatically lose when Hitler is part of your argument.

Your analogy is bad

and you should feel bad

[Zinjo]

Read a history book...

[VF5SS]

if it makes you feel better, in the Muv-Luv world there is a UN but America is still American as America can be

http://images.wikia.com/muvluv/images/0/08/Will.png

with the one conceit is all pilots everywhere have to wear the sexy time suits :3

[Zinjo]

I've always wondered how that worked.

Did each nation retain it's identity but became a global state within the UN Government?

Was it more like a Federation of independent states like the Emigration Fleets were in Frontier?

Was each autonomous nation re-incorporated as a "State" of the Global UN Government?

The reality of conflicting interests and patriotism would be immense!

[sketchley]

The reality of conflicting interests and patriotism would be immense!

Which is why there was the 10 year Unification War on a heretofore unprecedented scale and level of destructiveness (or disruptive-ness as print sources on the matter tend to describe it).

[Zinjo]

Which is why there was the 10 year Unification War on a heretofore unprecedented scale and level of destructiveness (or disruptive-ness as print sources on the matter tend to describe it).

Shouldn't that be war"s" (unless that too has been retconned). If I recall correctly it was not a single war, but many regional conflicts, as well as attacks on Ataria Island

I would imagine that the US Constitution would be a template for the UNG constitution, not for any more reason than it is the only national constitution that gives authority to the government from the bottom up, as opposed to a government giving rights to its people from the top down. A gift from Ben Franklin and Lord Byron...

Under that framework, autonomous nations could agree to a centralized global authority. The framework allows for the retention of most of the power in the member states, not at the global federal level. Perhaps a type of US 2nd Amendment version was also adopted, but the wording would refer to maintaining a well regulated "military", which is where the weapons for the regional wars would come from.

Kind of fascinating if one has an interest in international politics...

Edited April 29, 2013 by Zinjo