Jasonc Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 http://www.nzweek.com/world/italys-berlusconi-sentenced-to-four-years-in-jail-for-tax-fraud-18123/ Thought this was a very interesting read. I wish there was a Robotech thread to put this up in, but since there isn't, I'll just make a new thread for it. Quite the interesting predicament, and was probably due for sometime.
taksraven Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 Interesting indeed. Is Agrama actually in jail in Italy or is he in the US?
MichaelS Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 I would assume italy where the crime and judgement happened, and with the luck we macrossers have it just make HG stronger as a company LOL.
s001 Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 They're going to end up selling the robotech rights to Disney or something like that.
Jasonc Posted October 27, 2012 Author Posted October 27, 2012 (edited) From what I'm aware of, he's still in the U.S., so the question of extradition will be in play. Being that the FBI was involved here, maybe they'll be happy to see him go. To add, as he's like 80+ years old, I wonder what all this holds in store. Hopefully Tatsunoku will be wise and decide to pull it all back from them. HG now has a bad reputation. Edited October 27, 2012 by Jasonc
soul.assassin Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 Damn right. Japanese companies are known for scrutinize a partner's rep. Also, I lol'd at the HG apologists. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1217357&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Jasonc Posted October 27, 2012 Author Posted October 27, 2012 Damn right. Japanese companies are known for scrutinize a partner's rep. Also, I lol'd at the HG apologists. http://www.animenews...der=asc&start=0 One can only hope, right? Hell, even if it didn't benefit Macross in any way, I'd like to see Robotech finally R.I.P. It had its day in the 80s, and the "creative" team that's there now have made a bad story, unbearable. It just needs to go, along with the stupid anime panels, along with some of the lame fans, and pretty much every idea of bringing this back. 3 years though, is kinda only a slap on the wrist. Realistically, it may only delay a few things for the franchise. We can only hope for much more, but that's what I'm thinking.
Hikuro Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 HG has had many attempts at the revitalization of the franchise, Wildstorm comics, 2 video games, Shadow Chronicles to name a few, and look where it's gotten them? a Bankrupt partner known as ADV, the death of their founder, failed ideas, lack luster toy products, and now current CEO going to jail for the rest of his natural life which isn't much! I think, this is really just me thinking this out loud, but Karma is a bitch. And she took the ice cube trays when she left the HG house.
MichaelS Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 I don't know, I would love to hope but even if HG collasped tomorrow where would that leave the properties?
Jasonc Posted October 27, 2012 Author Posted October 27, 2012 we at robotechx.com all laughing Trust me, a lot of us are laughing, too. Is it strange to do the proverbial Hi-five at this point? It's great seeing criminals get what they deserve.
renegadeleader1 Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 At the end of the day this is going to mean nothing. The main guy who the Italians were after already had his sentence reduced to a single year. That's without using any of his appeals which may take years to run their course. In the meantime everyone convicted is free pending said appeals. The United States also will not extradite a 80+ year old man unless he's a war criminal or wanted for a violent crime. Even then its iffy. Also 3-5 years is usually average for tax evasion not a slap on the wrist. Anything longer like Capone's 11 year sentence is considered excessive. Another thing is if the Japanese corporations really gave a damn about criminals involved in projects that coke head gun nut Nishizaki would have had his creative control of Yamato stripped years ago. Tatsunoko also isn't going to turn its back on a compnay that stood with them during the battle over the SDF:Macross rights. HG itself was cleared of any involvement in this case, with all of the charges falling on Agrama himself. The last matter that has been touched apon elsewhere is the statute of limitations is running out sometime in 2013. I'm not as familiar with Italian law, but the plan might be to appeal then squat on it untill time runs out.
azrael Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 At the end of the day this is going to mean nothing. The main guy who the Italians were after already had his sentence reduced to a single year. That's without using any of his appeals which may take years to run their course. In the meantime everyone convicted is free pending said appeals. The United States also will not extradite a 80+ year old man unless he's a war criminal or wanted for a violent crime. Even then its iffy. Also 3-5 years is usually average for tax evasion not a slap on the wrist. ... HG itself was cleared of any involvement in this case, with all of the charges falling on Agrama himself. Bingo. We have a winner. This has absolutely ZERO/NADA/0/ZILCH/NIL/NOTHING to do with Macross. HG is not part of the indictment. Only Agrama is and this would go into appeals, followed by extradition which would go on for years. It's good for a point & laugh-moment, but that's about it.
Keith Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 Bingo. We have a winner. This has absolutely ZERO/NADA/0/ZILCH/NIL/NOTHING to do with Macross. HG is not part of the indictment. Only Agrama is and this would go into appeals, followed by extradition which would go on for years. It's good for a point & laugh-moment, but that's about it. Actually, that's precisely why it has "everything" to do with HG's future. With his more shady business dealings likely being seized, his only source of quick cash for legal will be parting out and or dumping the "clean" businesses. That, and really, if Tatsunoko gets wind of things, the probability of them yanking their rights away is pretty damn good.
EXO Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 I don't wish Robotech fans any ill will. It's fun to make jokes but to me it doesn't really mean anything. The thing I don't like is how people that run the franchise just sit on the license and basically make bootleg quality products, not just merchandise but the entertainment part of it reeks of crap. I mean the Love Live Alive project? The Robotech Shadow Chronicles which is not but IS Sentinels? It must be nice to sit in an office for years without doing anything at all. The Macross part of it means nothing to me. But as a Mospeada fan it seems like a waste. I agree with Renegadeleader and Azrael and this might not amount to anything for Macross fans, but for us Mospeada and Southern Cross fans, any closer to HG's demise is good news.
azrael Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 Actually, that's precisely why it has "everything" to do with HG's future. With his more shady business dealings likely being seized, his only source of quick cash for legal will be parting out and or dumping the "clean" businesses. That, and really, if Tatsunoko gets wind of things, the probability of them yanking their rights away is pretty damn good. The T's were crossed and the I's were doted with Tatsunoko. Their licensing was with HG as an entity, not Agrama. Even if Tatsunoko pulled out, it doesn't change the fact that Tatsunoko owns what it owns. We don't know what Agrama's share of the $12.9-million fine among the 11 others who are part of the indictment is. It could be very big or very small. As for the 3-year jail sentence, that goes to extradition. Both could go to appeals which would ending up reducing both. Going to appeals would also drag things out. If Agrama dies from old age (the man is 77 already) or actually goes to prison, he'll just sign off HG to someone else like any other continuing business.
soul.assassin Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 (edited) Whatever it is, all this news will eventually reach the other side of the planet, and I'm sure right now 2ch is looking into it like bears to honey. It may not amount to an easy victory, but even then it's still significant. I hope I live long enough before the whole franchise be returned to the real people (even to their heirs should they soon pass from this earth) who made it by their minds and hands, not the money-grubbing pretenders, squatters and the poseurs. Edited October 27, 2012 by soul.assassin
Einherjar Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 Damn right. Japanese companies are known for scrutinize a partner's rep. Also, I lol'd at the HG apologists. http://www.animenews...der=asc&start=0 There's something weird about both the original ANN news article and the forum responses to it I've noticed up to this point; there has been little to no actual acknowledgement of Robotech Love Live Alive being in production. Despite it's importance to the franchise right now and the promotional attempts to generate excitement for it, even if little is actually being done, it hasn't made an impact whatsoever on the site even though it is anime (or at least anime is going to be involved in the feature). Of course, I'm assuming that ANN holds a lot of weight when it comes to anime news compared to other sites, and even then few other sites are even talking about it either, I've checked. For those who don't check up on HG's activities regularly, like going to the annual convention panels, the Robotech website or Facebook page, this could be the first time in recent memory fans have heard anything from the franchise even if said person, technically, hasn't been involved in it for a while. It puts the whole situation with the franchise in a different light. That said, taking out the whole debate thread also helped make this clearer.
Mr March Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 For those who don't check up on HG's activities regularly, like going to the annual convention panels, the Robotech website or Facebook page, this could be the first time in recent memory fans have heard anything from the franchise even if said person, technically, hasn't been involved in it for a while. It puts the whole situation with the franchise in a different light. That said, taking out the whole debate thread also helped make this clearer. You're right on the mark there. I've not heard anything about this franchise in years, even as an active net denizen trekking through pop culture's off-beat streets online. As for Agrama's legal troubles, they seems unlikely to affect HG or Macross except in the unlikely event of a liquidation. In that event, who knows what kind of crap will happen to the rights. That being said, HG has always refused to expose the nature of it's internal workings and copyrights whenever someone called their bluff legally. If nothing else, we may actually see the light of day fall upon HG as a result of investigation into assets. Again, nothing likely to come of it from the perspective of a Macross fan, but it might be a curiosity to read about
MichaelS Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 After sleeping on the whole thing I'm glad I did not write something I should not have. I think now the only thing this has done is give publicity to the feud (Macross/Mospeada/Southern Cross fans vs. Robotech fans) and instead of us working together to try to get the companys bring what we want to us, we are sniping each other again which (at times makes us feel better but helps no one). I dont want a kum-by-yah moment I just want legal non boot leg Macross DVD/BD and toys in a language I can read and understand.
TheLoneWolf Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 I've been following this case for several years now, but it's still far from over. Like others have said, this case will now move to the appeals process, which will take a few more years. And if the appeals courts uphold this ruling, then the case will on to the extradition process. Even if Agrama were to pass away tomorrow, nothing would change with regards to Macross. I'd imagine that another member of Agrama's family would run the company in his stead and business would continue as usual. And don't count on Tatsunoko Production severing ties with Harmony Gold either. Tatsunoko's handling of their portion of the Macross rights in Japan has been equally questionable. The fact that Tatsunoko approves of the way that Harmony Gold handles Macross over here speaks volumes.
Jasonc Posted October 27, 2012 Author Posted October 27, 2012 At the end of the day this is going to mean nothing. The main guy who the Italians were after already had his sentence reduced to a single year. That's without using any of his appeals which may take years to run their course. In the meantime everyone convicted is free pending said appeals. The United States also will not extradite a 80+ year old man unless he's a war criminal or wanted for a violent crime. Even then its iffy. Also 3-5 years is usually average for tax evasion not a slap on the wrist. Anything longer like Capone's 11 year sentence is considered excessive. Another thing is if the Japanese corporations really gave a damn about criminals involved in projects that coke head gun nut Nishizaki would have had his creative control of Yamato stripped years ago. Tatsunoko also isn't going to turn its back on a compnay that stood with them during the battle over the SDF:Macross rights. HG itself was cleared of any involvement in this case, with all of the charges falling on Agrama himself. The last matter that has been touched apon elsewhere is the statute of limitations is running out sometime in 2013. I'm not as familiar with Italian law, but the plan might be to appeal then squat on it untill time runs out. I don't think the statute of limitations applies to convictions that were made within the allotted time. Once convicted, they can't just appeal it out. That's not how it works. Anybody who thinks that, is simply ignorant on how the system works. I will say this. I don't think it will amount to much either. If anything, he may spend the rest of his life trying to appeal the conviction, and never serve a day in prison. That lawyer is going to be rich, that's for certain. As far as Macross is concerned, whether it does or doesn't have anything to do with it makes no difference. I have a little knowledge on what ifs, but there's no point in going there. I just thought this article was interesting.
Roy Focker Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 So Admiral Rick Hunter been hiding in prison?
renegadeleader1 Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 I don't think the statute of limitations applies to convictions that were made within the allotted time. Once convicted, they can't just appeal it out. That's not how it works. Anybody who thinks that, is simply ignorant on how the system works. Reading into Silvio Berlusconi's previous legal troubles, and apparently in Italy it DOES work that way. Twice he was convicted and was set free during appeal due to statute of limitations.
Einherjar Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 After sleeping on the whole thing I'm glad I did not write something I should not have. I think now the only thing this has done is give publicity to the feud (Macross/Mospeada/Southern Cross fans vs. Robotech fans) and instead of us working together to try to get the companys bring what we want to us, we are sniping each other again which (at times makes us feel better but helps no one). I dont want a kum-by-yah moment I just want legal non boot leg Macross DVD/BD and toys in a language I can read and understand. After observing the situation for years now, the feud has always been common knowledge and HG sure as hell doesn't give a damn about anyone except itself. Also, they may treat Macross fans bad, but they've been treating legitimate Robotech fans much, much worse for the last couple of years (Love Live Alive). News like this just reinforces the stigma. we at robotechx.com all laughing I know this has something to do with Robotech, but who would think reporting on this there and the official website would be a good idea...
akt_m Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 (edited) we at robotechx.com all laughing https://www.google.com/search?q=we+at+robotechx.com+all+laughing&oq=we+at+robotechx.com+all+laughing&sugexp=chrome,mod=0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 Edited October 27, 2012 by akt_m
VF-15 Banshee Posted October 28, 2012 Posted October 28, 2012 Ugh, I saw a link about turning Macross Plus into Robotech Plus. The sheer gall made me stop thinking for several seconds.
soul.assassin Posted October 29, 2012 Posted October 29, 2012 (edited) http://www.animenews...ve-no-jail-time *facepalm* And those apologists as usual. Edited October 29, 2012 by soul.assassin
Einherjar Posted October 29, 2012 Posted October 29, 2012 So for one brief moment Robotech was one again back in the news. However, it was the story of one of the staff's connection to a very controversial legal battle and politician that took precedence over the sequel/intersequel/thing to the supposedly cult science fiction series his company has been promoting for at least a year that brought it back to the spotlight. It really makes you think. For once at least, this was actual news about the franchise that wasn't complete BS like before.
Jasonc Posted October 29, 2012 Author Posted October 29, 2012 Reading into Silvio Berlusconi's previous legal troubles, and apparently in Italy it DOES work that way. Twice he was convicted and was set free during appeal due to statute of limitations. That's not how it happened, but anyways, One can hope the IRS gets involved. I don't know if that would happen, but it does throw the question of that in the fray. In this case, I don't think the "bad publicity is good publicity". Even as minor as this issue seems to be for the company, a few of us have been having a field day with it.
renegadeleader1 Posted October 29, 2012 Posted October 29, 2012 That's not how it happened, but anyways, Per the telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/silvio-berlusconi/8410667/Silvio-Berlusconi-the-man-of-2500-court-hearings.html In 1994, shortly after he was elected as prime minister for the first time, he was accused of bribing a member of the financial police. He was sentenced in 1997 to 33 months in prison but was acquitted on appeal in 2000 because the time limit for the offence expired.
MichaelS Posted October 29, 2012 Posted October 29, 2012 This whole thing has turned anticlimatic with alittle circus on the side. Lol
Mr March Posted October 29, 2012 Posted October 29, 2012 Ugh, I saw a link about turning Macross Plus into Robotech Plus. The sheer gall made me stop thinking for several seconds. LOL! I have to laugh, because if I didn't, I'd cry
MichaelS Posted October 29, 2012 Posted October 29, 2012 I would love to here the explanation on why there is a huge tech change in plus. And wherer rick hunter is and what that whole fleet thing is that Isamu comes from LOL!!!
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