DX Chogokin VF-171 Cannon Fodder

[Mechapilot77]

i do wonder why it is that the exact same design has almost zero issues on alto's version fo the vf-171. i hope luca's will be trouble free as well. FWIW, i have 3 vf-171 CF...they are all still whole, complete and unbroken...but i've never transformed any of them more than putting on the weapons/armor parts on one of them. lol. MW made me afraid to. lol.

[aceoftherebellion]

From the way mine broke and looking at the issues other people have had, I'd say it's a factory issue. Bad plastic batch and shoddy CQ for this run. It hasn't seemed to effect other toys they've done much, so it might hopefully be an isolated incident. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody got lazy or decided to cut corners, and usually that's the sort of fiasco people get fired over sooo... crossing fingers and knock on wood that the next run doesn't have the same problems?

On the bright side, I was able to fix mine so that I can still transform and proudly display it, so at least some of the 'bad ones' are salvageable-

[Chronocidal]

It's really a combination of shoddy materials with pants-on-head engineering techniques. After taking apart the leg of my 171CF, I have to wonder what the people designing it were smoking, because it is just such a ridiculously overengineered piece of nonsense, I feel like I need to redesign the knee joint from scratch so it doesn't hurt my brain anymore.

[sreichma]

In spite of all of its failures. . .The VF-171CF punched a Varja in the face and destroyed it.

[close313]

Is it actually a gamble to buy a CF 171 now? Ive been thinking of getting one but the cracking problem also seem to affect MISB ones.

[ULessa]

Thought the triangle was fine as long as you only transform it once. More than that is just almost a guaranteed break

[no3Ljm]

Is it actually a gamble to buy a CF 171 now? Ive been thinking of getting one but the cracking problem also seem to affect MISB ones.

The only solution here not to worry on the exploding parts is buy 2 as most members here do so you can display both in Fighter and Battroid mode. Or better yet, get 3 to add the ever-loving 'Gerwalk' mode.

[Mommar]

It's really a combination of shoddy materials with pants-on-head engineering techniques. After taking apart the leg of my 171CF, I have to wonder what the people designing it were smoking, because it is just such a ridiculously overengineered piece of nonsense, I feel like I need to redesign the knee joint from scratch so it doesn't hurt my brain anymore.

Really, you actually took it apart? You didn't take pictures of it did you?

The only solution here not to worry on the exploding parts is buy 2 as most members here do so you can display both in Fighter and Battroid mode. Or better yet, get 3 to add the ever-loving 'Gerwalk' mode.

171's Gerwalk mode is actually a hell of a lot of fun to pose. It's very dynamic.

[no3Ljm]

171's Gerwalk mode is actually a hell of a lot of fun to pose. It's very dynamic.

I agree. To be honest, I kinda like Alto's DX 171Ex more than his DX 25F. Well, except for that 'rubber shoes' looking feet.

[sreichma]

Is it actually a gamble to buy a CF 171 now? Ive been thinking of getting one but the cracking problem also seem to affect MISB ones.

Both i purchased are solid and were transformed twice but yes it is a gamble. Others have had a cascade of breakage through no fault of their own.

[Vagabond Elf]

Mine's good so far, having been transformed four or so times. The little triangles broke, but that was me being an idiot and forgetting about them. My NUNS triangles are good at the moment.

However, mine lives in Battroid, and there does seem to be evidence that it is stress in or going to Fighter mode that causes the plastic to fail. And when I transform it, I pop those pieces off first.

Since the ship is packaged in Fighter, I think it is a bit of a gamble now.

[Chronocidal]

Really, you actually took it apart? You didn't take pictures of it did you?

Took the legs apart as far as I could before I hit an impasse of superglue. I can take pics of the parts and put them up, but basically the name of the game with the 171 is "how many tiny little superfluous parts can I throw in here to make the design as complex as possible to assemble?"

It's not enough that they have pieces sandwiched between other pieces, and screwed together.. they have pieces, sandwiched between inserts, then pressed into a larger structure before being stuck between layers of plastic, and screwed/glued together.. Maybe it's a way to relieve stress on some of the parts? I have no idea, but the pieces just flew everywhere, and they're ridiculously tiny. I'm probably going to save myself the trouble of fixing the dumb thing, and redesign the knee joint from scratch.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Chronocidal

[Graham]

Black NUNS piece disintegrated on the right shoulder of one of my CF yesterday, which had been standing on display in Battroid mode since I bought it. Only transformed one time, then never transformed the finicky thing again.

Black triangle piece cracked and fell off my other CF which was on display in fighter mode months ago.

[Desty_Nova]

Can someone refresh my memory why we were able to get replacement shoulders for our yamatos but we're completely fraked with these damn bandais?

[Chronocidal]

Because bandai doesn't believe in replacing parts, only the entire thing at once... and they kinda refuse to acknowledge that any macross fanbase exists outside of Japan, probably for legal reasons.

The VF-1 shoulder issue was a unique instance where we had contacts who were able to get a few replacements under the radar and into the US, and is now a non-issue because of Shapeways. I'm working on a design for complete replacement for the lower triangles, but I need to get my 171 back together before I attempt it.

[mickyg]

Please do! That would be fantastic to have something we know will stand up over time. Until then, mine stays in the box.

[The Old Man]

Hmm. I'm starting to hate this thing.

During transformation from F to B, tiny pieces fell off.

Has anyone also had the 'pleasure'?

I need to know where the frakkers go back on.

Edited July 14, 2014 by The Old Man

[Ignacio Ocamica]

Hmm. I'm starting to hate this thing.

During transformation from F to B, tiny pieces fell off.

image.jpg

Has anyone also had the 'pleasure'?

I need to know where the frakkers go back on.

If I remember right, anime52k8 posted a picture a while back showing where those pieces go.

[The Old Man]

Thanks Ignacio.

My first thought were the shoulders as those things love falling off.

It looks great, such a shame about the crazy complex design. Gimme a 21/22 to transform any day.

Edited July 14, 2014 by The Old Man

[Ignacio Ocamica]

Found the pic in anime52k8's flickr gallery:

Edited July 14, 2014 by Ignacio Ocamica

[The Old Man]

Found the pic in anime52k8's flickr gallery:

You sir are a legend. Thank you.

Thanks to anime52k8 too for the original photo.

[Ignacio Ocamica]

You're welcome

All credit goes to anime52k8 for taking and posting that pic!!!

[close313]

I had the same experience with my Alto's. A piece dropped off and I thought I broke a tab( one of the ends was not even) . After a very long inspection I found out it was just a screw cover on the leg that dropped off.

[no3Ljm]

Hmm. I'm starting to hate this thing.

During transformation from F to B, tiny pieces fell off.

image.jpg

Has anyone also had the 'pleasure'?

I need to know where the frakkers go back on.

Found the pic in anime52k8's flickr gallery:

Ok, I'm curious. I haven't experienced any problems yet on my Alto's 171Ex. But what this tiny things do? If ever that falls off and in case you lost it, would it fail to transform it back or something? From the looks of the plastic, is this some kind of locking tabs?

Anyways, thanks in advance.

[Chronocidal]

See, this is the kind of thing that baffles the hell out of me with the 171 design...

WHY did they need to make all those tiny pieces? Are they so incompetent at designing things to fit together that they need to make dozens of spacer pieces to fill the gaps left after assembly?

The internal structure is exactly the same way... it's never just two parts that fit together.. it's a part that gets padded with two smaller pieces before being inserted into a slot that was just designed too wide. Why?!

Edited July 14, 2014 by Chronocidal

[Scyla]

My assumption would be the presence of 3D-data. If you have a working transformation, no mass shifting and all the moving parts you want to include them all. So the 3D-data had the chest panels so the toy has to have them too.

I think this was one of the downfalls of the VF-25 V1 where the designer just relied on the 3D-data without applying common sense to the design leading to a terrible design and with terrible aesthetics.

[Chronocidal]

Actually, no, the v1 VF-25 looked nothing like the 3D data. That was the entire problem. The model division got it just fine, but the toy designers ignored their experience entirely, and fell flat on their face.

Also, I'm trying to figure out exactly what those spacers even do.. they look like they're entirely unnecessary.

[The Old Man]

Ok, I'm curious. I haven't experienced any problems yet on my Alto's 171Ex. But what this tiny things do? If ever that falls off and in case you lost it, would it fail to transform it back or something? From the looks of the plastic, is this some kind of locking tabs?

Anyways, thanks in advance.

Actually, no, the v1 VF-25 looked nothing like the 3D data. That was the entire problem. The model division got it just fine, but the toy designers ignored their experience entirely, and fell flat on their face.

Also, I'm trying to figure out exactly what those spacers even do.. they look like they're entirely unnecessary.

They don't appear to do much. I had already transformed it back to fighter without issue by the time I found out where to put them.

I'll probably leave it for now as both times I've picked this toy up, I've regretted it.

[aceoftherebellion]

They'e meant to help lock the metal swing bars in place. Really, they seem to do nothing at all, as far as I can tell. I keep fiddling with mine, trying to see what preventative measures I can take to repair/reconstruct/prevent further damage, but it's all uphill. Black NUNs triangle starting to fail, although I've reinforced it with a whole bunch of glue. On the upside, it's survived my transforming it several several times now, all issues aside, so there's that. I hope somebody can fabricate some sort of replacement for these soon, though.

They're awfully small parts, but I wonder if they can be recast in resin to be a little stronger... c|:

[Scyla]

Actually, no, the v1 VF-25 looked nothing like the 3D data. That was the entire problem. The model division got it just fine, but the toy designers ignored their experience entirely, and fell flat on their face.

Also, I'm trying to figure out exactly what those spacers even do.. they look like they're entirely unnecessary.

Ok so my text might be misleading. I meant that they took the 3D data and looked at the transformation and said ok we do this as a toy. So in the transformation for the show the crotch area flips out and rotates about 270 degrees. I always assumed that the cheated in the show so the Messiah doesn't look as squat as it would look in reality or that they had some panels that concealed the underside of the plane so that the crotch could be so small. The panel than could disappear in Battroid-Mode.

So my theory is that the Bandai designers said the crotch rotates 270 degrees and that is what the toys gonna do without thinking how the end result would look like. On the Renewals they took into consideration that it had to look gook in all three modes and altering the transformation for this goal.

Maybe I'm seeing things that are not really there but for me that might be a reason why the V1 Messiahs don't look good although they have a working 3D model to work with.

[Chronocidal]

Oh, I get what you mean. Yeah, there could be a multitude of reasons. Fortunately they seem to have figured out that people don't like stuff that's very clearly not like it was seen in the shows (even going so far as to make the CF-171s fly apart in a stiff breeze )

[Chronocidal]

So, this is Part I of a two part series about how the VF-171 CF can completely explode from looking at it funny.

This is basically a photo diary of my adventures disassembling a shattered knee joint.

Before I get to the knee, here's what happens when you unscrew the hips. They come apart fairly easily, but as you can see, there's a ton of pieces that might fall out and go everywhere. For some reason, they felt the need to pad the lower half of the hip joint with extra plastic pads, instead of molding it to fit directly into the metal thigh. Could be for structural reasons, I guess, but it's a lot of little pieces to do a simple job (Bandai seems to take that as a trademark).


So, to start, here's how the leg looks when it's working fine.


Here's a second view, with a slightly rotated thigh swivel, and color coded parts.


This is the thigh section from my broken leg, still in decent shape, minus the pry marks from trying to get the darn thing apart.


Here's what you see once you get it apart (minus the swivel joint, I'll get to that in a minute).

Here, you've got a cover with far too much glue on it, holding together two large tabs. Get that cover off, and the thigh comes apart with a single screw, and you can access the upper thigh joint and hinge pin.

Here's what happened to mine.

I've color coded the parts so you can get an idea of how badly it actually broke. The side cover for the knee had the screw shaft shear off, and the red pieces all used to be the large central knee joint cover. Now, it's broken entirely, and you can see the spring ratchet inside the knee.

That pink screw cover is also a pain in the backside. It was overglued horribly, and was literally the only thing holding the entire knee together.


Now, why did it fail? Good question. I'd go ask Bandai what they were smoking designing this.


So yeah. I seriously doubt there is any hope for this leg at this point, unless I superglue the entire thing permanently into fighter mode (not sounding like a bad option, considering my hate for the 171 transformation).

Part II will be later this weekend. I've taken the shoulder covers and lower triangles off of two 171CFs to compare, and think I know why they break, but that's a long way from learning to fix them.

[xrentonx]

Very interesting! I think you should make a thread of all Valks you've disassembled and keep the OP updated for easy access. Your posts on the matter are always super informative

[Chronocidal]

It probably wouldn't be hard to do, I just need to do a search to find the older posts and pics. Think I've taken at least one of each major type of valk I own apart to some extent, except for any VF-25/29, VF-11, or the new YF/VF-19. VF-1s are by far the most friendly to disassemble, with old VF-0s being close behind.

Anyhow, after mixing and matching parts between my two 171CFs, I was able to come out with one solid one. Makes me glad I ordered 2 RVF-171s

As far as causes though, that varies. The knee problem above is clearly a materials thing, possibly related to that metallic plastic. The plastic sheared off with obsidian-like edges, right along the flow lines in the plastic. I need to find some way to get the lower leg apart to fix it properly, but the darn thing is screwed and glued together like Fort Knox.

The shoulder triangles though..both the upper and lower halves of the NUNS pieces... after seeing how they break I'm convinced Bandai just hired hamfisted gorillas for their assembly line. The pieces are fragile, but not overly so. The problem looks like a combination of overtightening the screws that hold the pieces together (the cracks on my broken ones all originate from the screw) and the assembly monkies just being prone to jamming the shoulder triangles over the top of the metal shoulder joints with all the finesse of a 400 lb linebacker.

If that screw is too tight, there's no room for the NUNS pieces to flex to fit around the shoulder nubs. Due to the structure of those parts, overtightening the screw will visibly deform those pieces, pinching them in the middle, because of the way they're built almost hollow to leave room for the outer flap. So, jamming them over the shoulders is just stressing them further, by spreading them along an already stressed direction. If the people building them had the sense to tighten the screws in the triangles after slipping them over the metal shoulder blocks, this probably would be a non-issue.

[The Old Man]

Whilst I was trying to get the leg I eventually broke back into fighter mode, a small piece popped out from somewhere.

I'm pretty sure it came out of the leg (not the small bits I mentioned earlier in the thread).

Anyway, I put it to one side and glued the leg back on at the knee - where the metal 'pin' is.

It seems to work fine, I can still transform it without the leg falling off and still have no idea where this bit goes.

Crazy design.

Edited July 18, 2014 by The Old Man