Bandai 1/72 fully transform able VF-1 plastic kit for Macross 30th Ann

[Vifam7]

So, now you have this clashing of people who see the original lineart as art to be reinterpreted, and those who see it as a schematic for an aircraft that shouldn't change.

Where it gets ugly though is that whether Bandai intends it or not, a lot of the things they're changing don't look like an "artistic interpretation," they look like lazy mistakes. If they're doing it on purpose, fine, but when you have something that's been repeatedly produced in nearly the exact same form for 30 years, and you go and decide, "I think I'm just gonna change this stuff," and you don't say that outright, it looks like you're just doing it wrong, and don't care.

Either way, Bandai still has no excuse for not bothering to research at least something about how aircraft work. It doesn't take that much work to look at a picture of a real plane and copy it, but apparently they can't even do that.

People forget that Kawamori himself was working on the design. I know most fans want to blame Bandai for everything that is wrong and believe that Kawamori is blameless. But it is a fact he was involved so any faults are equally shared. And folks please don't go into unsubstantiated conspiracy theories about how Bandai might've paid him off or screwed him over. If you want to make that claim, you've got to back it up with more than just your personal dissatisfaction.

Let's remember that while Kawamori did design the VF-1 be realistic, it is still at the end of the day a fictional aircraft. I'm not sure where some folks get the idea that the VF-1 must adhere to a specific sculpt and form. The anime itself took substantial liberties and every toy has had its own share of liberties. In fact, like every/any toy of a fictional mecha, the VF-1 has seen its share of re-renderings and redesigns. I think folks have gotten so attached to the Hasegawa and Yamato sculpts that if any alternative shows up, they perceive it as being "wrong".

This Bandai model is only wrong in one's own personal opinion or artistic sensibilties. It's not necessarily wrong in that it doesn't follow the design of something in real life existence or has a specific design form that Kawamori or Big West says it must follow.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Vifam7

[peter]

I want to see some cooler poses, or at least know it's capable of some better ones, because so far from the ones they've shown, pretty ug

[DarrinG]

but ask yourselves this: At what point do we let go of 30 year old lineart, and embrace a new take on the design?

It helps in a re-do (whether a mecha or song) if the original is inspiring but not yet fantastic.

When you hear a song remake that is clearly inferior to the original, the first thing you ask is WHY bother then?

If you're remaking something, make it BETTER, as in this Dragonar 1 Custom IMO.

The original Dragonar line art was stagnant and in need of an overhaul. Bandai gave the new design tons of attitude, high quality and improved it over the original. They should do the same here - or stick to the original line-art.

The challenge they face is the original VF-1 line art is fantastic, so they are biting off quite a design obstacle right off the bat...

[Duymon]

Now that I think of it I can remember all the rage when Hasegawa released the VF-1 over 10 years ago and did a new take on the vf-1.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Either way, Bandai still has no excuse for not bothering to research at least something about how aircraft work. It doesn't take that much work to look at a picture of a real plane and copy it, but apparently they can't even do that.

I'm sure "is it a realistic aircraft" was lower on the list of concerns than "is it a transforming robot fighter plane".

I mean, is realism even really a thing when talking about transforming giant robot fighter planes designed to fight giant near-human aliens we hypothesized after a 3/4-mile-long starship came out of faster-than-light travel and crashed into an island in the south Pacific, that we managed to reverse engineer enough of to make it work within 10 years, and coincidentally on the day of the ship's maiden voyage, the so-hypothesized aliens attacked... And then it later turns out the ship transforms too?

Methinks the aircraft guys forgot their grain of salt.

[Shaorin]

Nah, you need to pull your Toynami out again... even with all the issues of the model that's going way too far.

i don't have one, just a copy of the original 1985 HCM VF-1J insparation. i guess i'll take your word on this, since you have hands on experience with the MPC,

but this new 1/72 just seems that repulsive to me, considering BANDAI has YAMATO's irreproachable 1/60V.II lead that they should be following,

at least so far as overall general lines and proportions are concerned.

i mean, i don't mind an alternative take on the design all that much, but going willfully Bass-Ackwards with engineering like BANDAI is going here... NOT a great idea AT ALL, BANDAI...

Edited May 22, 2013 by Shaorin

[Chronocidal]

I'm sure "is it a realistic aircraft" was lower on the list of concerns than "is it a transforming robot fighter plane".

I mean, is realism even really a thing when talking about transforming giant robot fighter planes designed to fight giant near-human aliens we hypothesized after a 3/4-mile-long starship came out of faster-than-light travel and crashed into an island in the south Pacific, that we managed to reverse engineer enough of to make it work within 10 years, and coincidentally on the day of the ship's maiden voyage, the so-hypothesized aliens attacked... And then it later turns out the ship transforms too?

Methinks the aircraft guys forgot their grain of salt.

You don't spend much time around aircraft fanatics do you? There's a reason they get called "rivet counters."

And I'm pretty sure that's probably why. They figure if there's schematics out there, why are they changing something? Aircraft modelers basically worship at the altar of the schematic blueprint, because that is the end all/be all judge of how well they're building a kit.

For part of this though, I'd have to agree that Bandai really doesn't even try. Just because it's a made-up aircraft doesn't mean you completely ignore how real ones look and function. And that's not really the issue with just this kit, but any aircraft Bandai attempts. For people who spend that much time making robots, they sure do seem inept about how mechanical moving parts work on an aircraft.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Chronocidal

[Duymon]

You don't spend much time around aircraft fanatics do you? There's a reason they get called "rivet counters."

And I'm pretty sure that's probably why. They figure if there's schematics out there, why are they changing something? Aircraft modelers basically worship at the altar of the schematic blueprint, because that is the end all/be all judge of how well they're building a kit.

For part of this though, I'd have to agree that Bandai really doesn't even try. Just because it's a made-up aircraft doesn't mean you completely ignore how real ones look and function. And that's not really the issue with just this kit, but any aircraft Bandai attempts. For people who spend that much time making robots, they sure do seem inept about how mechanical moving parts work on an aircraft.

I don't get it. What part of this VF-1 kit shows that Bandai doesn't know "how real aircraft work"

I'm at a loss here.

[jenius]

No wing flaps!

[Duymon]

The wing flaps are there.....

Edited May 23, 2013 by Duymon

[David Hingtgen]

"Rule of cool" explains a lot of the feelings------it simply "doesn't look that cool" as VF-1 interpretations go. The Hasegawa valks may take some liberties--but they look awesome, so it's forgiven. But taking liberties to make it look LESS cool than the existing references? Not cool.

[wm cheng]

"Rule of cool" explains a lot of the feelings------it simply "doesn't look that cool" as VF-1 interpretations go. The Hasegawa valks may take some liberties--but they look awesome, so it's forgiven. But taking liberties to make it look LESS cool than the existing references? Not cool.

Totally agree! (if the plane looks sleeker, I'd go for that over the right number of rivets!)

Edited May 23, 2013 by wm cheng

[CF18]

From Hobby Japan July

[VF5SS]

Oh look the hips can pose normally.

The day is saved~

[Checkmate]

I like it!

[CF18]

The super part back pack pieces are sitting one full head length lower/after than how it has been done in all other toys and models. But it should be relatively simple to fix.

[Ignacio Ocamica]

I'm not against new interpretations of the VF-1 mold and I'm not against bandai. I wanted to like this, but it's awful, every part of this VF-1 is off, even the fast packs are completely wrong. Had a preorder but I'm going to cancel it.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Ignacio Ocamica

[Mommar]

The concept of how the hip and ankle joints can work is really cool and a good idea for poseability. However, the head is TOO BIG, the shoulders are super tiny, the proportions.shape of the nose cone make all three modes unsightly and the Fast Packs do not seem to sit in the right spot. I don't mind reinterpretations, but I do mind bad ones. Two good engineering ideas and A LOT of terrible design/artistic ones.

[Shaorin]

-1S head unit is too bulbous. why couldn't they have followed Yammie's example? head unit proportions on all the 1/60v.II variants are just right, IMHO...

exactly why has BANDAI been so insistent lately on making half to 2/3 of everything MACROSS related that they produce look like total Arse?!?

it is as if they were intentionally slapping their backside towards Yammie's engineering staff and MACROSS fans in general at the same time!!

Edited May 23, 2013 by Shaorin

[jvmacross]

Oh look the hips can pose normally.

The day is saved~

LOL....chalk it up as another instance of getting a random passer-by to generate a pose?

[VF5SS]

They gotta glue 'em to the display or people will knock them over!

[Chronocidal]

I don't get it. What part of this VF-1 kit shows that Bandai doesn't know "how real aircraft work"

I'm at a loss here.

It's not this kit in particular, it's just their apparent ignorance or apathy about all things aircraft-related. It's just this amazing feeling that somehow, among all their design teams, no one in the group has ever built a model of an actual aircraft.

They can't seem to understand what panel lines are. Also, slapping a 15 foot tall salami of a landing gear strut directly in the center of a 10 foot long bay doesn't work in any universe. They seem to be capable of amazing mechanical contraptions, but it's like they lose all sense when making something that's not in their usual repertoire.

Yeah, I do apologize, I'm just annoyed over something most people won't even care about. It's just that the way Bandai goes about making aircraft is like nails on a chalkboard to my brain.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Chronocidal

[Ignacio Ocamica]

It's not this kit in particular, it's just their apparent ignorance or apathy about all things aircraft-related. It's just this amazing feeling that somehow, among all their design teams, no one in the group has ever built a model of an actual aircraft.

They can't seem to understand what panel lines are. Also, slapping a 15 foot tall salami of a landing gear strut directly in the center of a 10 foot long bay doesn't work in any universe. They seem to be capable of amazing mechanical contraptions, but it's like they lose all sense when making something that's not in their usual repertoire.

Yeah, I do apologize, I'm just annoyed over something most people won't even care about. It's just that the way Bandai goes about making aircraft is like nails on a chalkboard to my brain.

Quoted for truth!!! I feel your pain! (You reminded me of the 1/72 VF-25 landing gear strut!!)

Bandai delivers great mecha products, they certainly know how to, but they dropped the ball with the VF-1.

[electric indigo]

Hasegawa has the market covered for the aircraft modelers, Bandai's kits are aimed at the occasional modeler or people who don't want to spend too much time on a kit. These VFs are meant to be handled, posed and transformed, including the repeated removal of the landing gear, which is why they look how they do.

The Frontier aircraft are excellent replicas of their animated counterparts, they're just a b*tch to build.

[wm cheng]

It's not this kit in particular, it's just their apparent ignorance or apathy about all things aircraft-related. It's just this amazing feeling that somehow, among all their design teams, no one in the group has ever built a model of an actual aircraft.

They can't seem to understand what panel lines are. Also, slapping a 15 foot tall salami of a landing gear strut directly in the center of a 10 foot long bay doesn't work in any universe. They seem to be capable of amazing mechanical contraptions, but it's like they lose all sense when making something that's not in their usual repertoire.

Yeah, I do apologize, I'm just annoyed over something most people won't even care about. It's just that the way Bandai goes about making aircraft is like nails on a chalkboard to my brain.

"nails on a chalkboard to my brain" - I can't believe how succinctly you've managed to put how I feel about Bandai's aircraft design WOW!

Hasegawa has the market covered for the aircraft modelers, Bandai's kits are aimed at the occasional modeler or people who don't want to spend too much time on a kit. These VFs are meant to be handled, posed and transformed, including the repeated removal of the landing gear, which is why they look how they do.

The Frontier aircraft are excellent replicas of their animated counterparts, they're just a b*tch to build.

I can't imagine how these plastic armatures/mechanisms are meant to stand up to being handled and transformed. Those Bandai MF valks are such a b*tch to build!

[EXO]

It feels like they built this one with gerwalk primarily in mind... which should always be the last mode to consider.

[Gubaba]

It feels like they built this one with gerwalk primarily in mind... which should always be the last mode to consider.

Normally, yeah... but Hasegawa has excellent fighters and excellent battroids... gerwalks are still nowhere to be seen.

[Hoptimus]

From Hobby Japan July

vf-1-72n3.jpg

Now we are talking. That looks much better. Still waiting on Final pics to pull the trigger.

[sketchley]

Oh look the hips can pose normally.

The day is saved~

Funny how much talk they generate, isn't it?

I'm currently working on the Hasegawa 1:72 VF-1 Battroid kit, and when I saw that "battroid holding its pee in" pose, I initially thought it was a completed Hasegawa kit. It was only the head sculpt that tipped me off to it being the new Bandai kit.

[EXO]

Lol, the day is saved? I made one comment and people think that pretty much covered everything wrong with the model. Let's wait for the next pic where the head is made smaller to where it's proportional and then you can take down this comment too.

[SchizophrenicMC]

They can't seem to understand what panel lines are. Also, slapping a 15 foot tall salami of a landing gear strut directly in the center of a 10 foot long bay doesn't work in any universe. They seem to be capable of amazing mechanical contraptions, but it's like they lose all sense when making something that's not in their usual repertoire.

Bandai are fully aware of what panel lines are, but they build casual mecha kits, not hardcore aircraft kits. Panel lines on mecha are a great way to make it look cool. The sci-fi aspect of greebles supersedes the realism aspect of panel lines that make sense here. Also, it's notable that the design of panels on aircraft does change over time, and this is even true with the VF-1. (I think this is covered in the M3, but I don't remember where I read as much. There is lineart though)

For that matter, it's been shown that Macross likes to use active structures- that is, structures that use moving parts where one would conventionally use fixed members. (Consider the entire premise of VFs, frankly) I see no reason a main landing gear that contracts to stow is beyond that capacity. All things considered, a 15 foot extended main gear may reasonably fit into a 10 foot long bay.

I'm gonna say people here are just being anal about it and should go back to their Hasegawas if they want screen-accurate VF-1 aircraft models. This obviously is not trying to be such, and is aimed at the casual modeler who wants a detailed toy they can build. (ie not western Macross fans, apparently)

[Chronocidal]

My issue was only half with the huge ginormous gear not fitting in the bay.. the other half is that it's a fugly sausage of a gear that looks horrible, whether it would work or not.

The thing is, you can make numerous in-universe excuses for why they're doing things so badly, or take the simple solution that Bandai just sucks at making aircraft, which they've shown on numerous other occasions. Either way, the result is freaking ugly, and looks incredibly lazy that they're making up things from scratch instead of going by the references everyone's been using for 30 years.

Anyway, what I do wonder right now is whether the design actually has the knee joint for gerwalk posing. The display model looked like the legs were canted out slightly, but that magazine picture looked like a bad flashback to the v.1 VF-25. And now that I think about it, the VF-25 kits never had that joint either. That might be beyond what they can cram into the legs, but it makes me wonder how they got the display model legs canted out as far as they were.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Chronocidal

[JET7]

prayers are answered..

basing from the scanned pics.. the fast packs are already pre-colored! yipee...

after all the negative things on this one.. im still gonna get it.. THOUGH STILL, I WONT DO THE PEE-PEE POSE..

From Hobby Japan July
vf-1-72n3.jpg

[Graham]

People forget that Kawamori himself was working on the design.

Now I can't speak for Kawamori or Bandai, but I doubt Kawamori actually personally worked on the design.

What happened with Yamato is that he would come in for a meeting , which often had to be booked weeks or months in advance (he's a very busy guy) and he would offer his advice, comments, suggestions etc on a toy design and he had final say on whether anything should be changed. Yamato would then make said changes and another appointment would be booked with Kawamori to seek his approval. Wash, rinse and repeat as necessary.

I imagine things are much the same with Bandai.

Graham

[Dobber]

People forget that Kawamori himself was working on the design. I know most fans want to blame Bandai for everything that is wrong and believe that Kawamori is blameless. But it is a fact he was involved so any faults are equally shared. And folks please don't go into unsubstantiated conspiracy theories about how Bandai might've paid him off or screwed him over. If you want to make that claim, you've got to back it up with more than just your personal dissatisfaction.

Let's remember that while Kawamori did design the VF-1 be realistic, it is still at the end of the day a fictional aircraft. I'm not sure where some folks get the idea that the VF-1 must adhere to a specific sculpt and form. The anime itself took substantial liberties and every toy has had its own share of liberties. In fact, like every/any toy of a fictional mecha, the VF-1 has seen its share of re-renderings and redesigns. I think folks have gotten so attached to the Hasegawa and Yamato sculpts that if any alternative shows up, they perceive it as being "wrong".

This Bandai model is only wrong in one's own personal opinion or artistic sensibilties. It's not necessarily wrong in that it doesn't follow the design of something in real life existence or has a specific design form that Kawamori or Big West says it must follow.

Yeah, I agree somewhat. Some people seem to think because Kawamori gives his "seal of approval" to a design then that makes it good. Well, I remember him giving a big "thumbs-up" to those hideous v1. 1/60 DX designs too.

Chris