I think ________ will make an apperance in the..

[Commander McBride]

Back to the subject of the VF-0/VF-1 issue for just a minute, I have a little theory of my own. I think the VF-1 and VF-0 were originally developed by seperate corporations as competitors. I'm guessing the VF-1 was a Stonewell-Bellcom and the VF-0 was a Shinkasu. Shinkasu's higher technology in the avionics area allowed them to have an extensive system in their VF-0 prototype. They also had Overtechnology advancements like the SW-AG system/ However, Stonewell-Bellcom's experience in the airframes themselves allowed them to creale a lighter, more compact, aircraft. When it came down to the final competiton, both VFs were evenly matched, with different strengths and weaknesses....until S-B unveiled their secret weapon, the Pratt & Whittney Thermonuclear Turbine, which led to the adoption of the VF-1, because, despite the higher cost of the engines, the savings in fuel would be huge, and due to the monetary issue, was viewed as a better advantage than the stronger SW-AG armor.

After the completion of the competiton, due to the fragile situation, Shinkasu was convinced to work alongside S-B in development and production of the VF-1, and to share the expertise learned in the VF-0 project. Some of the VF-0's improvements were integrated into the VF-1, such as a production version of the SW-AG system. Shinkasu aqquired the right to build a version of the VF-1 inder license, specifically the VF-1J, which incorporated some of the weapons, sensor, and avionics advancements that appearred in the 0. Note the similarity of the 0S head to the !J head. However, Shinkasu continued development on the VF-0, adding such features as GERWALK mode, and making a limited production run of VF-0s, possibly to test the use of VFs, not testing the transformation systems themselves, but to develop tactics and train the first batch of pilots while the VF-1 was not yet ready. When tensions flared up, and turned to conflict, with the Anti-UN, the small force of VF-0s was deployed to ASCA and sent to the South Pacific. In addition to the fact that more VF-0s were available and ready for combat, it also helped that the ASCA (possibly) and the VF-0s, which were at Shinkasu, were in Japan, much closer to the target area than any of the S-B development aread in the US.

[imode]

Back to the subject of the VF-0/VF-1 issue for just a minute, I have a little theory of my own. I think the VF-1 and VF-0 were originally developed by seperate corporations as competitors. I'm guessing the VF-1 was a Stonewell-Bellcom and the VF-0 was a Shinkasu. Shinkasu's higher technology in the avionics area allowed them to have an extensive system in their VF-0 prototype. They also had Overtechnology advancements like the SW-AG system/ However, Stonewell-Bellcom's experience in the airframes themselves allowed them to creale a lighter, more compact, aircraft. When it came down to the final competiton, both VFs were evenly matched, with different strengths and weaknesses....until S-B unveiled their secret weapon, the Pratt & Whittney Thermonuclear Turbine, which led to the adoption of the VF-1, because, despite the higher cost of the engines, the savings in fuel would be huge, and due to the monetary issue, was viewed as a better advantage than the stronger SW-AG armor.

After the completion of the competiton, due to the fragile situation, Shinkasu was convinced to work alongside S-B in development and production of the VF-1, and to share the expertise learned in the VF-0 project. Some of the VF-0's improvements were integrated into the VF-1, such as a production version of the SW-AG system. Shinkasu aqquired the right to build a version of the VF-1 inder license, specifically the VF-1J, which incorporated some of the weapons, sensor, and avionics advancements that appearred in the 0. Note the similarity of the 0S head to the !J head. However, Shinkasu continued development on the VF-0, adding such features as GERWALK mode, and making a limited production run of VF-0s, possibly to test the use of VFs, not testing the transformation systems themselves, but to develop tactics and train the first batch of pilots while the VF-1 was not yet ready. When tensions flared up, and turned to conflict, with the Anti-UN, the small force of VF-0s was deployed to ASCA and sent to the South Pacific. In addition to the fact that more VF-0s were available and ready for combat, it also helped that the ASCA (possibly) and the VF-0s, which were at Shinkasu, were in Japan, much closer to the target area than any of the S-B development aread in the US.

Hehe, so what you're saying is that all the info from Bigwest and Bandai about the VF-0 being a technology testbed/VF precursor is all false?

[bsu legato]

I don't think Kawamori is as hung up on stats as some of us are. Simply put, if he needs to VF-1 to be superior to the SV-51 and/or the VF-0, then the VF-1 will be superior. It's just that easy.

Personally, I agree with those who've said the VF-1 is due for an update. Let's be honest, the real world of aviation has come a long way since Kawamori first dreamed up the VF-1, so why shouldn't his fictional world follow suit. I feel that if Kawamori was to design the VF-1 today, it's performance and design would be much like the VF-0.

[Legioss]

Pure speculation follows: Maybe the VF-0 was the VF-X0 until they decided to manufacture it for actual combat. Then it was given the designation VF-0. The VF-0 is considered a little unstable but stable enough to go up against the SV-51s while they wait on the VF-1, making it in their opinion a non-experimental fighter. Maybe it's stable enough because it doesn't incorporate all the technology from the VF-X0. It's not a YF-0 because these aren't prototypes. They're the final VF-0s.

[Mr March]

I don't think Kawamori is as hung up on stats as some of us are. Simply put, if he needs to VF-1 to be superior to the SV-51 and/or the VF-0, then the VF-1 will be superior. It's just that easy.

Personally, I agree with those who've said the VF-1 is due for an update. Let's be honest, the real world of aviation has come a long way since Kawamori first dreamed up the VF-1, so why shouldn't his fictional world follow suit. I feel that if Kawamori was to design the VF-1 today, it's performance and design would be much like the VF-0.

Thank you. Reason at last. You're not a film student by any chance?

[bsu legato]

You're not a film student by any chance?

No, but I should have been.

[Mr March]

Never too late to try something new. I started out in Accounting, but I've been doing film for the last year. The moment when I can make money in film and stop doing accounting is going to be a great day

[Nied]

* The VF-0 has active stealth, the VF-1 does not.

We don't know that for sure, hell as Final Vegeta's picture illustrates, it could explain the four seemingly superfluous blade antenea on the VF-1's nose.

* The VF-0 has flare and chaff launchers, the VF-1 does not.

I doubt that the VF-1 is devoid of countermeasures.

* The VF-0 carries more gunpod ammo than the VF-1 (550rds vs 200 rds).

However the GU-11 has higher caliber ammo and a lower cyclic rate, giving the pilot about the sime fireing time (and more hitting power).

* The VF-0 can carry two spare gunpod magazine in the leg FAST packs. The VF-1 has no spare magazines. In fact the VF-1's gunpod cannot even be reloaded in the field and has to be taken back to base to be reloaded.

The design of the GU-9 is nearly identical to the GU-11 I don't see how one can incorperate a helical magazine and the other some kind of clip system. I'll beilieve it has one when I see it.

* Both the VF-0 and VF-1 have a similar max speed in atmosphere.

But the VF-0 can only maintain it's maximum speed at full afterburner, meaning that it would run out of fuel after a matter of minutes at maximum speed. The VF-1 would be able to cruise along at mach 2.71 forever if it wanted. Note too that the VF-1 has a much higher thrust to weight ratio (3.5:1 vs 1.8:1)or the Sv-51 (2.3:1), giving it alot more options in a dogfight vs it's oponents.

Edited December 12, 2003 by Nied

[UN Spacy]

Wow.....about 100 votes and still no love for Max.

Edited December 12, 2003 by UN Spacy

[Lightning]

Back to the subject of the VF-0/VF-1 issue for just a minute, I have a little theory of my own. I think the VF-1 and VF-0 were originally developed by seperate corporations as competitors. I'm guessing the VF-1 was a Stonewell-Bellcom and the VF-0 was a Shinkasu. Shinkasu's higher technology in the avionics area allowed them to have an extensive system in their VF-0 prototype. They also had Overtechnology advancements like the SW-AG system/ However, Stonewell-Bellcom's experience in the airframes themselves allowed them to creale a lighter, more compact, aircraft. When it came down to the final competiton, both VFs were evenly matched, with different strengths and weaknesses....until S-B unveiled their secret weapon, the Pratt & Whittney Thermonuclear Turbine, which led to the adoption of the VF-1, because, despite the higher cost of the engines, the savings in fuel would be huge, and due to the monetary issue, was viewed as a better advantage than the stronger SW-AG armor.

After the completion of the competiton, due to the fragile situation, Shinkasu was convinced to work alongside S-B in development and production of the VF-1, and to share the expertise learned in the VF-0 project. Some of the VF-0's improvements were integrated into the VF-1, such as a production version of the SW-AG system. Shinkasu aqquired the right to build a version of the VF-1 inder license, specifically the VF-1J, which incorporated some of the weapons, sensor, and avionics advancements that appearred in the 0. Note the similarity of the 0S head to the !J head. However, Shinkasu continued development on the VF-0, adding such features as GERWALK mode, and making a limited production run of VF-0s, possibly to test the use of VFs, not testing the transformation systems themselves, but to develop tactics and train the first batch of pilots while the VF-1 was not yet ready. When tensions flared up, and turned to conflict, with the Anti-UN, the small force of VF-0s was deployed to ASCA and sent to the South Pacific. In addition to the fact that more VF-0s were available and ready for combat, it also helped that the ASCA (possibly) and the VF-0s, which were at Shinkasu, were in Japan, much closer to the target area than any of the S-B development aread in the US.

Shinnakazu didnt show up until after SW1, it was then that Stonewell-Bellcom (or what was left of it) split and Shinnakazu and General Galaxy were born, so Stonewell-Bellcom was running the whole Valk show until after the VF-4 was built.

[Nied]

Back to the subject of the VF-0/VF-1 issue for just a minute, I have a little theory of my own. I think the VF-1 and VF-0 were originally developed by seperate corporations as competitors. I'm guessing the VF-1 was a Stonewell-Bellcom and the VF-0 was a Shinkasu. Shinkasu's higher technology in the avionics area allowed them to have an extensive system in their VF-0 prototype. They also had Overtechnology advancements like the SW-AG system/ However, Stonewell-Bellcom's experience in the airframes themselves allowed them to creale a lighter, more compact, aircraft. When it came down to the final competiton, both VFs were evenly matched, with different strengths and weaknesses....until S-B unveiled their secret weapon, the Pratt & Whittney Thermonuclear Turbine, which led to the adoption of the VF-1, because, despite the higher cost of the engines, the savings in fuel would be huge, and due to the monetary issue, was viewed as a better advantage than the stronger SW-AG armor.

After the completion of the competiton, due to the fragile situation, Shinkasu was convinced to work alongside S-B in development and production of the VF-1, and to share the expertise learned in the VF-0 project. Some of the VF-0's improvements were integrated into the VF-1, such as a production version of the SW-AG system. Shinkasu aqquired the right to build a version of the VF-1 inder license, specifically the VF-1J, which incorporated some of the weapons, sensor, and avionics advancements that appearred in the 0. Note the similarity of the 0S head to the !J head. However, Shinkasu continued development on the VF-0, adding such features as GERWALK mode, and making a limited production run of VF-0s, possibly to test the use of VFs, not testing the transformation systems themselves, but to develop tactics and train the first batch of pilots while the VF-1 was not yet ready. When tensions flared up, and turned to conflict, with the Anti-UN, the small force of VF-0s was deployed to ASCA and sent to the South Pacific. In addition to the fact that more VF-0s were available and ready for combat, it also helped that the ASCA (possibly) and the VF-0s, which were at Shinkasu, were in Japan, much closer to the target area than any of the S-B development aread in the US.

Shinnakazu didnt show up until after SW1, it was then that Stonewell-Bellcom (or what was left of it) split and Shinnakazu and General Galaxy were born, so Stonewell-Bellcom was running the whole Valk show until after the VF-4 was built.

Actually you have that backwards. Shinikasu was born when Stonwell-Bellcom and Shinsei Heavy Industries merged. General Galaxy seems to be its own company.

[Legioss]

Hikaru doesn't appear on South Ataria island until episode 1. He talks like he hasn't seen Roy in a while. Max and Hayao may not be assigned to the Macross yet. Are they even out of basic training? They don't show up until episode 8. What happens in Macross Zero is kept secret for 5 decades, so none of these people know what happened. I don't see any reason why they would tell Claudia. I think that narrows it down to Gloval, ASS-1, and VF-1.

[Anubis]

Hikaru doesn't appear on South Ataria island until episode 1. He talks like he hasn't seen Roy in a while. Max and Hayao may not be assigned to the Macross yet. Are they even out of basic training? They don't show up until episode 8. What happens in Macross Zero is kept secret for 5 decades, so none of these people know what happened. I don't see any reason why they would tell Claudia. I think that narrows it down to Gloval, ASS-1, and VF-1.

They were rookies when they were introduced as Hikaru's subordinates.

[Final Vegeta]

But Shin is the main character of Zero, what would be funny is they gave a CF and let him go at it with AFOS/DD/Nora.

Well, maybe he could become so skillful it could beat everyone even with an inferior mecha. At the time I think it seems still unlikely, though, but with Kawamori it could happen.

But even if Shin gets a VF-1D, the enemies will update their mecha, so I think they will manage to stay superior to the VF-1.

It's only up to Shin winning against Nora.

FV

[buddhafabio]

Maybe they will add a romeo and juliette twist and let sara die and shin kills nora in a death ramming. because if they do not put shin on the sdf-1 then he is dead anyway

[Final Vegeta]

We don't know that for sure, hell as Final Vegeta's picture illustrates, it could explain the four seemingly superfluous blade antenea on the VF-1's nose.

The V-BR-2 had even more antennas. Since it was a reconnaissance mecha, it makes sense it was highly stealth (in addition to amazing speed like the Blackbird) or at least had some strong ECM.

* The VF-0 has flare and chaff launchers, the VF-1 does not.

I doubt that the VF-1 is devoid of countermeasures.

I mean, what's the importance of flare and chaff if you can shoot down missiles with lasers

The design of the GU-9 is nearly identical to the GU-11 I don't see how one can incorperate a helical magazine and the other some kind of clip system.  I'll beilieve it has one when I see it.

In Macross Plus OVAs there was a scene where Isamu's VF-11 reload a clip. The clip was shaped as the upper side of the barrel (a half cylinder). Maybe it could work in the same way.

FV

Edited December 12, 2003 by Final Vegeta

[Final Vegeta]

Maybe they will add a romeo and juliette twist and let sara die and  shin kills nora in a death ramming. 

Cliche-y.

Remember to always keep your girls out of the front. If they die (almost certain in a battle), you'll soon die too. This is a basic rule of all kind of works. It sucks for men modern girls are so emancipated they are itchy to go to the front.

(this wasn't meant to be a sexist remark, it was intended to make fun of a common cliché)

because if they do not put shin on the sdf-1 then he is dead anyway

What kind of thinking is that? What if Shin is meant to be on the SDF-1 and Kawamori makes all other Macross series without even a mention of him?

FV

[NoSuchFile]

Maybe they will add a romeo and juliette twist and let sara die and shin kills nora in a death ramming. because if they do not put shin on the sdf-1 then he is dead anyway

Maybe he got killed in a ARMD in the start of the war against the Zentradi, who knows, maybe he fell off a cliff sometime before the war, how can we tell without having seen the end of Macross Zero

[ewilen]

Hikaru doesn't appear on South Ataria island until episode 1. He talks like he hasn't seen Roy in a while.

In the middle of all the action, they could cut to a splitscreen telephone conversation with Roy inviting Hikaru to the Macross christening ceremonies.

Yes, it would be lame beyond lame.

[buddhafabio]

QUOTE 

because if they do not put shin on the sdf-1 then he is dead anyway

What kind of thinking is that? What if Shin is meant to be on the SDF-1 and Kawamori makes all other Macross series without even a mention of him?

FV

true but if he was in Roys squadron it would be likely that he would still be in Skull Squadron during macross.

[Beltane70]

because if they do not put shin on the sdf-1 then he is dead anyway

Not necessarily. According to the compendium, there were around a million survivors that weren't on the Macross.

[Lightning]

oops, i'm sorry, i apologize

[Nied]

In Macross Plus OVAs there was a scene where Isamu's VF-11 reload a clip. The clip was shaped as the upper side of the barrel (a half cylinder). Maybe it could work in the same way.

FV

The GU-9 has a big support strut right where the a clip would go if it attached the same way as the VF-11's gunpod. Plus there are no visible seams where a large clip would be.

[Druna Skass]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet, but I wonder if the Prometheus will ever show up. Maybe still in the shipyards if it hasn't launched yet.

[Beltane70]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet, but I wonder if the Prometheus will ever show up. Maybe still in the shipyards if it hasn't launched yet.

The Prometheus is already comissioned by the time Macross Zero takes place. The Prometheus was comissioned in December of 2006.

[GobotFool]

I guarantee you, somewhere on a Star Wars message board, someone is arguing that the Naboo Starfighter is more advanced than an X-Wing.

*snickers* How true.

[Final Vegeta]

By the way, there is something that VF-1 has and VF-0 don't, according to Compendium:

CCV

Control-Configurable Vehicle

an aeroplane shaped with mass distributed as to have maximum maneuverability

FV

[ManxoChu]

I say the VF-1A will show...

Wouldn't it be ironic to have a CF VF-1A be the one to vape the Anti-UN unfriendlies?

[Effect]

Hmm not a bad idea. The VF-11 was shown in a very good light in Macross Plus, well the beginning of it anyway. Its cannon fodder in Macross 7 right from the start. It would be pretty cool if the VF-1A was THE fighter of Macross Zero only to be seen as the CF in SDF Macross. Would keep the pattern up.

[Aegis!]

Hmm not a bad idea. The VF-11 was shown in a very good light in Macross Plus, well the beginning of it anyway. Its cannon fodder in Macross 7 right from the start. It would be pretty cool if the VF-1A was THE fighter of Macross Zero only to be seen as the CF in SDF Macross. Would keep the pattern up.

Better yet , let´s put pilot Warmaker on the Low-Vis VF-1A

[UN Spacy]

Better yet , let´s put pilot Warmaker on the Low-Vis VF-1A

I don't think I've EVER asked this before. But since we're on the subject of Macross Zero.......do you guys know the ORIGINS of Pilot Warmaker?

Was this another inside joke at our expense (by Big West, Bandai, or Studio Nue)?!?!?!?!? Maybe (s)he'll make an apperance in the last episode.

[dna]

OK, I give. Who's Warmaker?

[ewilen]

The guy whose name is stenciled on the side of the VF-1D that Hikaru "hijacks" in episode 1.

[Druna Skass]

OK, I give. Who's Warmaker?

His name is also on the CF Chuncky Monkey, and on the Yamato decal sheets with the other names.

[91WhiskeyM6]

No way the low-Viz makes an appearance in Zero. Why? Because the toy was limited edition and BW/Yamato would have released after it appeared in Zero?