Macross 30

[Hikuro]

Okay now that looks better. But I gotta nit pick something here and that's scale. If I wanna land on the SDF-1 I wanna have a damn good scale perspective. Right now it feels way out of place landing on an ARMD platform that's only 2 times bigger than you and not about a hundred times bigger than you.

[big F]

Scale was a limiting factor on the PSP due to memory and processing power. The PS3 should not be so limited, I would be expecting to see an SDF at proper scale. On the PSP a fly by in Gerwalk mode should take more than a few seconds but doesnt. Hopefully this will be better scaled on the PS3. The Gundam Battle Engine is the playstation equalent of the havoc engine in that it is scalable and versatile. Can't help thinking that if it was on the PC it would be modded in the same way as the Crysis engine or Halflife or even Quake.

[UN Spacy]

Pretty excited about the new details...but I'm gonna have to be amazing for me to drop coin on it.

I've been somewhat jaded by the Trial games.

[macross_fan99]

I'm very excited for this game, but I'm a bit worried about the gameplay since I have a feeling that it will play like the psp games.

Everyone here seems to love them but I find the controls to be poor, especially when compared to the Macross game by Sega for the ps2. That game made me feel like I was actually in control of a Macross plane in a middle of a heated battle. The psp games always feel like chore to properly control. The camera angles are not too great either.

Regardless of this I will still get it since its Macross, despite what I think will be a very high price like all Japanese ps3 games. Anyone know if its up for pre-order anywhere yet?

[CoreyD]

Yeah, I'm with you. I had no problems controlling the Valk in the PS2 game, but the hybrid back DYRL game just seemed...awkward.

[Zoroastres]

Scale was a limiting factor on the PSP due to memory and processing power. The PS3 should not be so limited, I would be expecting to see an SDF at proper scale. On the PSP a fly by in Gerwalk mode should take more than a few seconds but doesnt. Hopefully this will be better scaled on the PS3. The Gundam Battle Engine is the playstation equalent of the havoc engine in that it is scalable and versatile. Can't help thinking that if it was on the PC it would be modded in the same way as the Crysis engine or Halflife or even Quake.

I'm pretty sure all the ships in the Trial games were to-scale. In Last Frontier, for example, there were launch-videos done with the in-game engine that had your Valk. launching off the deck of the Battle Frontier.

But keep in mind that the new setting/story may get around having to have everything to scale by limiting what big ships are actually in the game. For all we know, none of the big ships, not even the SDF-1, will appear.

I'm very excited for this game, but I'm a bit worried about the gameplay since I have a feeling that it will play like the psp games.

Everyone here seems to love them but I find the controls to be poor, especially when compared to the Macross game by Sega for the ps2. That game made me feel like I was actually in control of a Macross plane in a middle of a heated battle. The psp games always feel like chore to properly control. The camera angles are not too great either.

Regardless of this I will still get it since its Macross, despite what I think will be a very high price like all Japanese ps3 games. Anyone know if its up for pre-order anywhere yet?

Artdink's improved the engine a lot since the PSP days. The second analog stick they have to work with on the Vita/PS3 helps a lot, and the games let you use the left analog stick for movement, the right for camera work, and the d-pad for transformation. IIRC, the default controls for their PSP games were no camera control, period, and D-Pad for movement.

They've also implemented different flight controls, so if you like you can play the game (while in Fighter mode) almost like an Ace Combat game.

[D.D. Ivanov]

For all we know, none of the big ships, not even the SDF-1, will appear.

Edited October 27, 2012 by D.D. Ivanov

[Zoroastres]

So I take it that's the Battle Frontier? I've never been big on any of the non-Valk machines. It certainly looks to scale, assuming it was to-scale in Last Frontier. From the looks of the mini-map in the screenshot and the background, it looks like the areas will be VERY large. I wonder... is the "Archipelago" area the floating island terrain, do you think?

...

Anyway, at the GameFAQs board for the game, someone brought up the fact that the title, Ginga o Tsunagu Utagoe, is very similar to the title of the last episode of Macross Seven (Ginga ni Hibiku Utagoe). Is it a coincidence? A reference? A possible indication that Macross 7 characters/events will figure more heavily into the storyline than other series?

[jenius]

You don't recognize the SDF1?

[Tochiro]

Intriguing... the official homepage describes it as a mix of 'original Story x anime x Flight Action RPG.'

http://b.bngi-channel.jp/macross30/

[Zoroastres]

You don't recognize the SDF1?

Not really. Not without the Daedalus arm, at least. It's been a while since I last watched any Macross stuff, though.

[jenius]

You should find a good copy of Do You Remember Love?, especially if you've never seen it before... it's the pinnacle of 80s anime in my book and always time well spent.

[LOW_ALT]

The explosions look a little 2D....but the graphics look great otherwise. Let's hope they allow remote-play on the Vita with this title.

I would also imagine that all the other valks will be unlockables through this game like the others

[Astralith]

OMG!!!! AN ACTUAL PS3 MACROSS FULL GAME!!!! This is a dream-come-true! It spans every series too!... Heart... s-stopping... must.. lick... light... s-socket...

[VF-15 Banshee]

Except, apparently, Macross II.

[big F]

Is M II now reconsidered as altverse stuff, I thought they'd forgotten all that.

[LOW_ALT]

What's with the shark mouth painted on the Regult in this picture?

Is that from an episode I don't remember or is this maybe hinting at the possibility to apply stickers to custom paint schemes?

[Zoroastres]

Holy crap that's awesome! Decals would be really cool, In the PS3 games, there were different skins--like the ones for the VF-25s with girls drawn on 'em, or different color Valks (Klan had a red VF-25)--and the PSP games let us fully edit the color of our valks (full RGB range). Decals would be the next logical extension.

As for Macross II, it was in all of the PSP games... so maybe it is in, but they're just not talking about it because it's only the Valks and they don't feature into this original storyline due to their non-canonicity? It seems strange, particularly for a "small" franchise like Macross, to celebrate their 30th anniversary with a game that omits a big chunk of that franchise. Or maybe DLC? I don't think they'll omit Macross II. Or, rather, I don't want to think that.

You should find a good copy of Do You Remember Love?, especially if you've never seen it before... it's the pinnacle of 80s anime in my book and always time well spent.

I'm hoping the Blu-Ray hybrid pack will eventually go on sale... I saw it once, years and years ago. It was actually one of the first anime I ever saw. I don't remember much about it other than that it looked spectacular, and that whole ending scene w/ Minmay singing while Hikaru fights. Brilliant.

[LOW_ALT]

Or maybe DLC?

The horror! Omitting many of the valks (or series altogether) and making them DLC addons would be a huge bummer. However that wouldn't surprise me in the least with how much they stretched out the demos in the hybrid packs to get the most coin out of fans. It's all about profits to them.

[Kelsain]

Dang, didn't notice the shark-mouths before! I already finished my old 1/100 regult, but I'm thinking my broken Toynami could use a custom scheme...

[Old_Nash]

A color scheme system like serie Ace Combat^^

I wonder if it will be allowed to use our own illustrations or diagrams in our valkyrie.

[VF-15 Banshee]

Maybe they're pirate Regulds?

[LOW_ALT]

Dare I dream of a Forza-style paint editor?

[Astralith]

I hope there is some way to set the game on "English" even if its subtitles. I'm buying it regardless.

[D.D. Ivanov]

A color scheme system like serie Ace Combat^^

I wonder if it will be allowed to use our own illustrations or diagrams in our valkyrie.

Ace Frontier has the same color scheme system as Assault Horizon, the only difference being that most planes in AH have around five different sections to color, while the Macross games only have three.

I hope there is some way to set the game on "English" even if its subtitles. I'm buying it regardless.

Keep hoping, it's never going to happen. Who exactly are they going to cater to by wasting time on translating, the miniscule importing fanbase?

[Astralith]

miniscule importing fanbase?

Are we really? I honestly don't have a clue. 5%? Less?

I really wish my middle-aged brain could wrap around a new language. Anyway, from a programming standpoint, adding English text (not dialog) would take so little effort. Heck, i bet a programmer on this forum would do it gratis. Oh well.

[Zoroastres]

lol, no, it's most certainly NOT a "miniscule importing fanbase." Macross games and Gundam games, even those obscenely overpriced hybrid packs, routinely hit the top of the bestsellers list on the big importing sites like play-asia, amiami, etc.

Ace Frontier has the same color scheme system as Assault Horizon, the only difference being that most planes in AH have around five different sections to color, while the Macross games only have three.

If the Shark's Tooth is an actual decal (rather than a custom skin ala the Last Frontier skins) it could be more similar to Armored Core style customization. That would be... pretty awesome.

I do hope that, if they do go with that, we get more than three colors to play with per Valk. I always had a hard time making 'em look good w/out going all out in a single color.

[Renato]

lol, no, it's most certainly NOT a "miniscule importing fanbase." Macross games and Gundam games, even those obscenely overpriced hybrid packs, routinely hit the top of the bestsellers list on the big importing sites like play-asia, amiami, etc.

Other than the fact that it is a popular item at Play-asia, what does that prove in terms of the bigger picture, i.e., the portion of consumers of the product who happen to be based outside Japan? Without specific numbers, this is all meaningless.

As for amiami, it is not an importing site -- it operates within Japan (unlike Play-asia which is based in Hong Kong) and ships to foreign countries AS WELL as functioning for the Japanese consumers, and thus those games topping its sales chart says nothing at all about who is buying them, unless there is specific data saying "XX% of orders are coming from overseas".

If there is conclusive evidence that import users make up a substantially significant share of the whole, I would like to see it.

[Zoroastres]

...You're looking at this the wrong way. It demonstrates that of those people who DO import, these games are very popular.

And, yeah, you could dismiss that by saying, "well, how many people import?" and imply its too small a number to be relevant... BUT enough people import for sites like Play-Asia and NCSX, etc. to exist.

And keep in mind, the world is a big place, and Macross (and Gundam) are bigger in Europe, and far bigger in Asia, than they are in the Americas. The simple fact of the matter is there's plenty to indicate that Macross has a decent-sized fanbase around the world... and nothing to indicate that it's "miniscule." I mean, hell, if it were miniscule, a forum like this couldn't even exist.

[VF-15 Banshee]

Yeah but the Japanese don't see it that way. If they really wanted to make money off of thier stuff, anime wouldn't be dying here in the U.S.

[Zoroastres]

Er... that's not how it works. Most Japanese companies, aside from the really, really big ones (like Sony and Bandai-Namco) can't afford (too much money & too much risk) to tap into the overseas market directly. They rely on third-party companies to license their media--these third parties pay for the rights, and then take on all of the bills and risk of translating, localizing, distributing and advertising the product outside of Japan, with the hope of earning a profit. The biggest reason why anime is "dying" (assuming, of course, it's not already dead) in the West is, well, a plural--reasons. The third-party companies (like Funimation, Viz, Yen Press, etc.) generally spend so much on translating, localizing and distributing products that they really can't afford to advertise on anything risky, anything they don't KNOW will turn a profit. This is why Dragonball has seen a half-dozen different releases in the past decade. The fact that advertising is cost-prohibitive makes it harder for them to compete with Western animation, which has grown quite a bit in the last decade, and is a far cry from where it was during the "anime boom" of the 1990s thanks to shows like Avatar: The Last Airbender, etc. Keep in mind that prior to the anime boom, Japanese companies really didn't see much potential for an overseas market, so licenses' were a bit easier (and, more importantly, cheaper) to acquire. After the boom, they recognized that potential, and instead of undervaluing their licenses, they began (in certain cases) to overvalue their licenses.

None of that, of course, is enough to burst the anime bubble--but it does set the scene, if you'll pardon the double metaphor. The second factor is, of course, risk. You never know what will be a hit and what won't. One Piece is the most popular anime in the world, for example, yet it completely bombed in the North American market, whereas Dragonball, History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi and Yu Yu Hakusho were all fairly-to-incredibly popular here.

Thirdly, perhaps the biggest reason for the collapse of the North American market (and I should clarify here, that the anime markets in Europe, South America and Asia are all fairly strong, the big decline of the industry is most apparent in the United States) is, simply, piracy. It's a matter of competition: wait months or even years to buy an overpriced DVD of a show, often dealing with grating English dubs, shoddy translation and technical issues... or download a fan-translation for free within hours. It's kind of obvious why many consumers simply stopped purchasing anime and started downloading it--a habit that, once started, is very hard to break. Hell, I know people who routinely download torrents of anime episodes that were aired on Youtube or Crunchyroll, officially. There's literally no difference in quality or timing, but for them they're simply too used to the illegal method of acquisition.

And finally, I should point out that anime isn't "dying" at all. The anime boom was a boom. Or a bubble. A few shows (specifically Dragonball and Pokemon) became insanely popular, so those third-party companies began buying up the rights to shows left and right. It was a bubble. And they kept inflating it, more and more. And then it burst--because that's what bubbles do. The industry in the United States has declined because it had to decline, because the consumer base was not as large as they thought it was, and more frugal with their wallets. Those companies had to either adapt to the changing market or die. Many adapted--and are as strong as ever. New Japanese anime and manga are continually being released. Hell, even Japanese light-novels have found a new market in the West in the past few years--which is VERY exciting. Sure, a a few big companies did go under, but that was mostly because they kept relying on broken business models. Bandai Visual America, for example, shut down only this year. Why? Let's just say they weren't able to make much money selling 50 minute anime movies for $60 USD.

...

And it should go without saying that NONE of this has ANYTHING to do with the status of the Macross franchise overseas. Harmony Gold owns the rights to Macross, and several other mecha anime that they picked up dirt-cheap in the 1980s, some of which--including Macross--were butchered and jammed into a chimera of a cartoon called Robotech (which itself managed to be quite popular here). They own the rights to the ENTIRE franchise outside of Japan, and are insistent on not doing anything with it. Some (probably most) of the people here are familiar with Battletech/Mechwarrior, a Western gaming franchise. Well, back when Battletech started, they plagiarized many of their robot designs from Japanese anime (Because who would know? It was the 80s). Harmony Gold sued them, so they got rid of the designs and began to draw their own. A year or two ago, some game developers began working on a Mechwarrior 5, a sequel to the beloved PC series that had been dead for quite some time. But those developers sought to set their game earlier in the Battletech timeline, and the possibility that they might use some of those stolen Macross designs was all it took for Harmony Gold to start making noise, effectively killing the project.

The problem with Macross overseas is that Harmony Gold has the license, and nothing else. Harmony Gold is murder for a show--it's worse than ****ing 4Kids Entertainment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmony_Gold_USA

All they do is own licenses and own real-estate. They don't do anything with either. They just smother everything until it stops moving.

[D.D. Ivanov]

Trust me, everyone here is well aware of HG's crap, there's a few thousand posts on the matter.

[VF-15 Banshee]

And a slight correction, it's not Bandai Visual that's dead, it's Bandai Entertainment itself. Why? Because Bandai Japan forced them to compete for licenses like everyone else. Rather strange that, isn't it?

Bandai Visual is still charging outrageous prices for Gundam Unicorn.

[Renato]

...You're looking at this the wrong way. It demonstrates that of those people who DO import, these games are very popular.

And, yeah, you could dismiss that by saying, "well, how many people import?" and imply its too small a number to be relevant... BUT enough people import for sites like Play-Asia and NCSX, etc. to exist.

Right, but the point is that that still is not a substantial number, and is still subject to the fact that they fall outside of the target market.

Which leads me to...

And it should go without saying that NONE of this has ANYTHING to do with the status of the Macross franchise overseas. Harmony Gold owns the rights to Macross, and several other mecha anime that they picked up dirt-cheap in the 1980s, some of which--including Macross--were butchered and jammed into a chimera of a cartoon called Robotech (which itself managed to be quite popular here). They own the rights to the ENTIRE franchise outside of Japan, and are insistent on not doing anything with it.

It seems to me that it has something to do with it because if HG wasn't blocking each and every single new Macross product coming out of Japan, stuff would get licensed, would probably sell pretty well (if those Play-asia chart positions are indicative of anything) and maybe, just maybe, eventually developers would consider content for the foreign markets at the planning stage.

I think it has everything to do with the state of the Macross franchise overseas.

[Astralith]

Hey... Who knows... Maybe the US will import ASTRAL PLAN instead.

If a full-fledged PS3 game came out in English and it put us round-eyed cow boys in the cockpit of transforming mecha (see Starhawk) we would rush out to buy it no matter if the series It was based on was a half-baked knock off. Just a few hours of extra coding could bring a couple of extra... What, million yen?

Am I lying?

$12,425...I know, I know.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Astralith